Browning 725 trigger operation and failure

Рет қаралды 38,178

2 жыл бұрын

This video describes how a Browning 725 "mechanical" trigger works and why it sometimes doesn't work with light loads even though it works while dry firing.

Пікірлер: 68

@firstoriginals 10 ай бұрын

As I said before, your presentations are unique. No other place I can find it. Please keep moving ahead. Thanks

@scotheath3201 10 ай бұрын

Thank you. This one was a puzzler for me and I thought perhaps others would be interested as well.

@DrJizm 2 жыл бұрын

Great video, I have a B725 ProSport (UK 2020 model) and it had the fault where it would not fire the second barrel with live shells, fine with snap caps/ dry firing. This would occur about twice every 50 rounds or so. It went back to Browning who said they could find no fault but installed a 'light load kit' as a token of goodwill. The gun has been fine ever since, the springs are completely different to the originals, the larger coil on the spring is very different.

@robertbutler8005 2 жыл бұрын

Excellent demonstration of how the 725 works. Thank you for taking the time to make this video.

@jeffreymyers5967 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for posting this. 2:33 - I have seen an early model which also used a 2-piece hammer spring with a small washer that pushed up on the disconnector. 7:04 - Regarding the springs of the gun as a variable; the previously mentioned gun started having issues only after a few years of use. After that time, the hammer springs eventually started to develop a set which effectively reduced the length of the spring and changed when/where the hump engaged the disconnector. Replacing the hammer spring resolved the issue for that shooter.

@Skilpadjie1 2 жыл бұрын

Great Explanation. I have the 725 and know its mechanical triggers and roughly how it works. But this is much more I have known and very informative.

@firstoriginals 2 жыл бұрын

PLEASE KEEP MAKING NEW HD VIDEO'S . I COULDN'T FIND SUCH A VIDEO LIKE YOURS ON ALL WEB.

@jdemartini9807 Жыл бұрын

Hi Scott. You were so helpful in responding to my issue with my new 725 occasionally refusing to fire I thought I’d let you know the outcome, I sent the shotgun back to browning for investigation and repair. They worked on the gun and returned it. Since the issue was sporadic I don’t really know if it’s been fixed. Several follow ups by me inquiring about what work they did to the firearm has been unsuccessful. Browning tells me that that is confidential information that they will not release for liability issues. I had hoped to find out what they did so that if it happened again the information would be helpful to a local gunsmith rather than me sending it back in. Ridiculous, I know.

@scotheath3201 Жыл бұрын

One way to test would be if you do encounter the issue rather than open the gun, try and give the top lever a light push to the left (CW) and then see if the gun will fire. If it was the bolt interfering before, they likely just seated it a little deeper into the mono-block but we'll never know for sure.....

@jdemartini9807 Жыл бұрын

@@scotheath3201 I think that is exactly what they did. Looks like they filed the slot in the monobloc and the tang (if that’s the right word) is sticking further out. I think your earlier assessment was right on

@martynf65uk Жыл бұрын

I've put nearly 20,000 rounds through my 2017 725 MK2 and not one issue at all ever with it not firing. Period. I’ve used 21 gram Comp X for the first year, then Hull Superfast 27 gram and Hull Sporting 100 28 gram.

@G78. Жыл бұрын

I shot Brownings for years this happened on 3 different models I had 525 :Maxus :New A5 Trigger jaming 2nd shot I’ve actually moved to beretta shotguns Great video thanks from Ireland 🇮🇪

@scotheath3201 Жыл бұрын

Those triggers are significantly different than the trigger in the 725 (well, the 525 is at least a recoil operated reset) so the cause can't be exactly the same but interesting you've had the same symptoms in widely varying designs. Another response in this thread noted a similar issue, his old gun worked fine but his recoil reset Browning did not which we pretty much nailed down to a "trapping the trigger" issue. Every gun has a slightly different motion to reset the trigger and if you're used to a very slight movement, the Brownings may require just a bit more release to operate correctly.

@G78. Жыл бұрын

@@scotheath3201 725 isn’t a true mechanical trigger as it uses a inertia block think browning has to stop putting it out that the 725 is a true mechanical trigger A lot of people I know have had the same problems with browning firearms It’s well publicised online

@firstoriginals 2 жыл бұрын

NICE AND PERFECT

@bugsmasher4760 Жыл бұрын

Thank you for the great video Scot. Excellent articulation of the issue. I have a brand new Citori 725 Sporting 12 Gauge and using 7/8 oz target loads I've found that the gun/trigger has developed this "second shot" issue. The first 100 rounds functioned fine, but now this issue has intermittently developed about every 6/100 rounds. It doesn't matter which barrel order I select (U-O or O-U), the issue remains the same. Never happens in dry fire with snap caps. I am definitely not "trapping" the trigger and I am cognizant of that. I suppose I'll try some 1 oz loads next, hold the gun tighter and begin researching this "light load kit". Anything else you can think of to add Scot? (Thanks again for a great video. Much appreciated)

@RyanB.222 2 жыл бұрын

I was about to order a new 20 gauge 725 but after reading all of the horror stories and watching this video I think I will be looking for a different brand shotgun all together.

@scotheath3201 2 жыл бұрын

Still pretty tough to beat for a high quality gun at a reasonable price. In this range, the two most popular are the Browning and the Beretta. I've owned and worked on both, I still like the Browning better but a lot of that is personal preference. If you're going to shoot light loads, the 725 could give you trouble but it's the only one of the CItori's with the funky reset mechanism, the rest are the tried and true recoil only systems that have been more or less bullet proof (pun intended) for many years.

@Sneakyjoe69 2 жыл бұрын

So all in all would you recommend a citori or 725 citori ??

@rwdecoracoesemgessoltdame5994 10 ай бұрын

@@scotheath3201Hi scotheath, I bought a used Browning Citori, 725 trap, I have this problem, I select the upper barrel, the shot only comes out in the upper one even after pressing the second one, sometimes when I shoot it fires the 2 shots, this with the lower barrel selected, in this case the what could it be?

@masonballweg3550 2 жыл бұрын

I just bought one of these guns this week before I knew about the trigger issues. I usually shoot 1oz loads but I must say I am nervous now.

@aleccrombie7923 Жыл бұрын

You are right to worry

@frankc1430 Ай бұрын

I have the same problem with my 725 every once in a while. I use factory Federal Top Gun #8 1200fps 1 1/8 oz.

@skynet3110 Жыл бұрын

Great vidéo thx This problem is also present on the latest version or only the first ?

@scotheath3201 Жыл бұрын

All versions suffer from this same issue.

@joelstoehr2578 Жыл бұрын

Thank you Scot for this explanation. New 725 owner here.. I've put about 300 rounds through the gun since buying it, firing the under barrel first, and this problem of failure to fire on the over barrel has happened repeatedly. I tired shooting heavy loads yesterday ("super sport sporting clay loads"1300 fps, 3 1/4 dram eq.) and out of 100 rounds the gun failed to fire 5 times. I am hoping that with repeated firing this problem works itself out, however, I am also wondering if I should send it back to Browning to see what they might diagnose and do (light load kit?). Any advice you have would be very much appreciated. I hate to lose the gun for the time of repair, but it might be my only choice?

@scotheath3201 Жыл бұрын

Pretty unusual with heavy loads, are you certain you're not trapping the trigger?

@joelstoehr2578 Жыл бұрын

@@scotheath3201 No- I am not certain that I am not trapping the trigger. I'll have to get it back to the range and focus on that. Thanks for your reply, hopefully its operator error!

@Skilpadjie1 2 жыл бұрын

Any chance to show how to install the Auto Safety feature. The part comes with the 725. But they dont show in manual how to fit.

@scotheath3201 2 жыл бұрын

I've removed a few automatic safeties. They've all been a simple bar that was attached to the locking bolt with a screw and ended near the safety inside the action. When the top lever is actuated and withdraws the bolt, the bar pushes the safety rearward to the safe position.

@chrisg514 Жыл бұрын

Excellent video but not convinced it’s only a low load problem. I shot Superfast (27g 1500fps) through a B425 and MK38 for ages with no problem. Put them in the 725 and intermittent problems started. Changed to Intercomps (24g 1400fps) and no problems over 10k + cartridges. By chance I had to use a couple of boxes of Superfast last weekend and hit the original firing problem within 20 shots. The Superfast is a harsh cartridge with plenty of recoil. This isn’t trapping the trigger and has happened to another very experienced shooter trying the gun.

@scotheath3201 Жыл бұрын

Good point, this is a dynamics issue in that the timing of the motion of the various components affect the operation of the reset. Could be at some point there is an additional "bounce" off the back of the sears that would manifest as a failure to reset for certain recoil force inputs.

@chrisg514 Жыл бұрын

I plan to put through some Sporting 100s 28g 1475 cos and see what happens. The variations reported in this problem suggest a fundamental design flaw. Any decent gun should be suitable for a wide range of cartridges without problems. The fact that Browning don’t have a single fix also suggests there is something they don’t understand and, consequently, can’t produce a fix.

@weissrw1 2 жыл бұрын

I am confused! I dry fire my 725 all the time with no problem. Click, click. No issue. What am I missing? It was manufactured in 2021 if that helps.

@scotheath3201 2 жыл бұрын

I don't think you're missing anything. They all dry fire perfectly and they all function properly with "normal" energy loads. The issues appear when firing light loads and the reason is that the motion of the disconnector does not completely push the tree clear of the first sear prior to the recoil of the gun occurring. The recoil then causes the tree to move back under the first sear. With enough recoil, the energy stored in the inertia block causes the trigger to reset at end of the recoil stroke just like all recoil reset Citoris but with light loads, there sometimes isn't enough energy stored to cause the reset. This is very common on recoil reset guns with .410 tube sets. My point is that the 725, despite the claim of a mechanical trigger is not mechanical and when firing live ammo, resets exactly like any other recoil reset Citori. It's inertia block is lighter so the issues with light loads are even more pronounced in the 725. It's really just a recoil reset gun with a gimmick that kicks the inertia block so it resets when dry firing.

@weissrw1 2 жыл бұрын

@@scotheath3201 Thank you for explaining!

@jdurtschi 5 ай бұрын

Very good presentation - I have owned 5 different 725 soprting guns and never had an issue (even with the small 28 gauge guns). I recently bought a high grade 725 sporting and noticed something with the trigger that I have never noticed before. After the second shot is fired, when the pressure on the trigger is released there was a subtle click that sounded like the trigger resetting. I noticed in your video when the second shot was fired the sear stayed up on the shelf and did not drop down. After removing the stock and watching what happened with my gun, I noticed that the subtle click that I was hearing was the sear falling off the shelf when I released pressure on the trigger after the second shot (only does it after the second shot). It does the same thing regardless of which barrel is fired last. Shooting the gun it worked flawlessly - do you think there is any cause for concern with this anomaly?

@scotheath3201 5 ай бұрын

That is interesting. Where in the trigger cycle does the sear fall off the shelf? I've seen some mods where the front of the center shelf is angled so that after the sear releases the hammer and the trigger travel continues, there is enough force from the sear spring that the sear pushes rearward on the tree and causes the reset to occur but I've not seen anything that happens as the trigger is released. Ca you tell what is causing the sear to disengage from the shelf?

@jdurtschi 5 ай бұрын

@@scotheath3201 I took three short videos I can send you - what is the best way to do that?

@scotheath3201 5 ай бұрын

@@jdurtschi I'd really like to see them. Unfortunately, there is no private message feature on KZfaq. You can either post them on your channel or, I'm a long time member of trapshooters.com, my id is "ishoottrap" and private messages are allowed there.

@jdurtschi 5 ай бұрын

@@scotheath3201 Scot, went to the trap shooters site but it would not let me down load them from my computer (kept asking for the URL). Thanks for trying. Jay

@scotheath3201 5 ай бұрын

@@jdurtschi if you send me a message on the trapshootrr site, I'll send you my email address.

@craigminder5418 2 жыл бұрын

I shot both barrels replaced the upper barrel with a live shell left an empty in the bottom pulled up on a bird shot bottom barrel first then pulled trigger on upper barrel . Worked flawlessly. By the way no recoil on an empty shell so it isn’t an inertia system. All the video shows is if the video shows is it was a weak hammer spring.

@scotheath3201 2 жыл бұрын

Of course. Dry firing always works, firing with light loads does not work for some people. I've already explained why I retarded the motion of the hammer to show the mechanically actuated motion of the disconnector, the issues have nothing to do with a weak spring. I don't know what you're trying to show here. Are you disputing that many people have reported issues firing with light loads?

@grinchyface 2 жыл бұрын

You literally just restated what Scot said is normal behavior in his video, except with a disagreeing tone?

@jdemartini9807 Жыл бұрын

I wonder if you could help me. I bought a 20 ga 725, new, a couple of months ago and occasionally the trigger just gets stuck. I have to open and close the action several times and then it works. This isn’t on the second shot as many people here have complained. I guess I’ll call Browning tomorrow. Hate to send it in as we are in the middle of quail season

@scotheath3201 Жыл бұрын

"occasionally the trigger just gets stuck" - This is a new one for me. How does it stick, all the way back or forward without being able to pull it? If you dry fire it on empty hulls, does it stick? It would be best to pull the stock when this happens and see the position of the parts but a quail field seems a risky place to do that....

@jdemartini9807 Жыл бұрын

@@scotheath3201 it gets stuck in the forward position. Almost like the safety is on, even when I haven’t set the safety first. Hasn’t happened dry firing. Thoughts? Should I contact browning? I hate to send it back in the middle of the season. This has happened twice but I missed out on a bird both times

@scotheath3201 Жыл бұрын

@@jdemartini9807 There are a couple mechanisms that block the trigger. One is the safety as you have mentioned and the other is the locking block which prevents the trigger from being pulled without the gun in full battery. Could you try giving the top lever a little nudge to the left next time the trigger feels blocked and see if the gun will then fire?

@jdemartini9807 Жыл бұрын

@@scotheath3201 thank you Scott. Very helpful.

@rwdecoracoesemgessoltdame5994 10 ай бұрын

@@jdemartini9807It happens to me, how did you solve it, in my case it throws the first one, it gets stuck on the second one, sometimes it fires both, violent recoil, how you solved it

@theclayshooter 8 ай бұрын

2 weeks old my NEW 725s and gone back to Browning today for double firing which they say is impossible

@chrisg514 19 күн бұрын

Only just seen your comment. If I have the trigger too far forward on my 725 I get an occasional double discharge. They aren't going off together but in very rapid succession. Moved the trigger to my "normal" place and it goes away. But that's just me.

@robertcavoli4351 8 ай бұрын

The hump on the hammer spring alone is enough to swing the disconnector completely up and reset the trigger with zero load… dry fire. Then you suggest that a light load somehow impedes this in causes a misfire. Then you suggest that this doesn’t happen with a heavy load. I guess I’m misunderstanding something here, but this doesn’t make sense. If a dry fire is successful at resetting the trigger then how would a light load then caused this to fail…

@scotheath3201 8 ай бұрын

With a live shell, the center shelf doesn't have time to move back enough to clear the first sear before recoil occurs. If the shell imparts enough momentum to the gun/inertia block, the triggers reset exactly as in any other Browning recoil reset trigger but the inertia block is light in the 725 so light loads don't impart enough momentum to cause the reset to occur. This is a common problem in recoil reset triggers with small guage tubes and a lighter trigger spring is often needed. With no shell, the speed of the inertia block is of no consequence since the gun is not moving.

@Perazzi25 11 ай бұрын

Hi. I have a ProTrap 725 and i have had issues with the second barrel shooting trap. It occurs rarely when you are really late with second shot on a tight cornering low clay, and you shoot the second shot really fast. On a dry gun with no shots it works just fine. I have send it twice to the gunsmith who did not suceed to resolve the problem, hi thinks that it was just dirty action or something like that. On a early sporters there are just straight hammer springs, there is no bumpy springs at all. I asked him to send me straight springs and i replaced the bumpy ones away from the action. The thing is, that the bump raises the block quite high, and the blog also moves quite a bit sideways. When in low swing, when i am moving the gun fast sideways and same time pushing the barrels down hard towards the low clay the block does not have the time drop back down and in a really fast second trigger pull, it stucks berween the sears, and the gun may not fire in time, it fires late or not at all. The idea with bumpy spring might be using the gun in inside 410 barrels that i have heard is done in US, im not sure of this, i live in Finland. The bump is ment to help the action with low recoiling shot. So after i replaced the bumpy springs with the straight ones, i have had no issues with the second shot. Unfortunately, i have started to shoot with my old trusty 525 Ultra high rib XT that i bought 2014, i also found out that the same gun with anothet model name is now the all new trapgun. So maybe i am ahead of my time some 10 yeas after all.

@rwdecoracoesemgessoltdame5994 10 ай бұрын

@Perazzi25 Do you have the link for the straight springs?

@Perazzi25 10 ай бұрын

@@rwdecoracoesemgessoltdame5994 Sorry, i dont have any links for them, but if You ask springs for 725 Sporter, i think You are gonna get those straight ones.

@christopher3725 Жыл бұрын

3700. Dollar boat anchor. Always thought Browning had a good reputation. Every 30-50 shots it gets stuck. Really angry.....

@scotheath3201 Жыл бұрын

Happy to try and help if you're interested. Can you describe what you mean by stuck?

@christopher3725 Жыл бұрын

Variety of brands. Second shot seems to get stuck Pull harder and shoots. Happens every 50 shots or so

@christopher3725 Жыл бұрын

@@scotheath3201 second barrel will not shoot. Browing says I need to fully release the trigger. Don't have to do that with my $500 dollars cz over and under

@scotheath3201 Жыл бұрын

@@christopher3725 That's called trapping the trigger and it happens with all guns. You might want to take a look at my video on Browning recoil reset triggers for an explanation of why this is, I've seen many folks have this issue over the years, different guns do require different amounts of motion to set the second sear and it might take some getting used to of course it's up to you whether it's with the effort.

@christopher3725 Жыл бұрын

@@scotheath3201 thank you for your reply. Very interesting....but it didn't happen on my cheap cz?

@craigminder5418 2 жыл бұрын

You are slowing down the hammer as if it has a weak spring not a light load

@scotheath3201 2 жыл бұрын

I slowed the hammer to show that the motion of the disconnector due purely to contact with the spring would never be enough to reset the trigger. My point was that the inertia imparted to the disconnector is an integral part of the trigger re-set functionality when dry firing. I'm in no way implying that a slow hammer or weak spring has anything to do with the failure to reset when firing light loads. That failure is due to the magnitude of the gun's recoil being such that the gun moves rearward enough to cause the tree to stop its rearward travel relative to the rest of the gun and be forced back under the first sear but not high enough magnitude to cause the inertia block to move rearward enough at the end of the recoil stroke to reset the trigger.