Yes. I think the designs at this point are reaching the limit for aerodynamic efficiency. The Snoek might be faster though simply because it is so much smaller.

I would like to run the test at 150 watts which will yield a speed around 26-27mph, but I will only be able to do it once per bike I think. I am not an especially strong rider. Even at higher speeds shown in the video, you can see how identical the bikes were performing.

Yes. The fat GoPro definitely sucks up the watts. It’s an exchange I’m willing to make for insurance purposes. That camera made the claims process considerably less painful than the first time I got hit

I am looking forward to the RESUlTS of the climbing test. I am significantly less enthusiastic about performing the test 😂

It’s worth every penny invested to buy one. Having a velomobile makes me want to go out riding just because it is so fun.

Yes. If someone would like to send me a Snoek, I would be more than happy to test it, assuming my knees would clear the hood. It is quite a bit smaller. Logic dictates it should be faster.

I agree. I think the flat hood is not as stiff. I find it a little harder to see over. The hood is not really a structural, so stiffness doesn't matter, but it's nice with the Buelk to not have to worry as much about it getting cracked if someone leans on it. I think I read somewhere that Daniel Fenn believes the flat hood does something to help with handling in wind? I actually like the look of the W9 better, but I enjoy riding the Buelk more.

I don’t know of any velomobile riders continuously outputting 400 watts. Even Tour de France Pros don’t put out that type of power for long periods. They will climb in that range, but for cruising they tuck into the pack and average more like 250 watts. Keep in mind that riding in a recumbent position reduces power output because you cant use your bodyweight to push down on the pedals. Instead you have to push against the seat back. In exchange you get superior aerodynamic efficiency. The guys that set the 24 hr record for Velomobiles last summer were around 150 watts average. On shorter rides around 50 miles total they can average 230-270 watts. Most of us are averaging 100-150 watts in a velomobile. The 200+ watt powerhouse riders are mostly the 20-30 yr old guys with a lot of muscle and energy. The rest of us just want to go for a nice spin.

I’d be happy to test any bike that is sent to me 🙂

Mr Fusion? I’m not sure what Mr Fusion means. But yes, standard tires is the proper way to test. That is what normal people use.

@@mnveloguy Yup, and at speeds most people actually ride too. Only caveat would be that at the lower end of these speeds, rolling resistance is a large portion, so it's less useful for the few that do ride fast... then again, I expect them to be close to each other and to the Snoek L anyway. The aerodynamic designs of the three are quite similar and frontal area is pretty darn close too. I do think the Milan SL is a bit faster, as is the normal Snoek, but those don't fit larger people (so there's less power available). Last things last; Thanks for performing a very nice test and going through the effort of matching the tire setup as close as possible!

@@4nz-nl I was just as curious as everyone else. I like doing a little science now and then. I do want to try the test again at 150 watts, but that might have to be one run per bike. Sustaining 150 watts is pushing my limits. I took the next day off after these tests because my legs were a bit tired 🙂

@@mnveloguy The speeds you run at 120 watts are interesting anyway. I ride faster but days that I'm under 200 watts are really rare. Do weigh about 200 lbs though, and usually carry ~20 lbs of luggage :)

@@4nz-nl I weigh 135lbs with maybe 5-8lbs of luggage. 120 watts is roughly 2 watts per kilo o think?

Garmin Virb software and imported the data from my Garmin gps and laid it over the video and synched it.

I find the bikes are basically equal. The Bülk in this test was set up with softer suspension. It can be set to have much stiffer suspension. The vibration is likely because I needed to reseat the tires a bit more evenly on the Bülk. I actually find the W9 rocks a bit more than the Bülk when pedaling but is slightly firmer when cornering. I’ve since changed springs in the Bülk and now find the cornering is about equal. The W9 steering is quite stiff. I personally prefer the lighter action of the Bülk steering, but that is personal preference. The W9 turning radius is also larger than the Abkhaz, about 14m vs 11-12m for the Bülk. I probably will be offering my W9 for sale soon. Test ride season is nearly over here and I don’t need a second bike taking up room in the garage for the winter. I always prefer riding the Bülk. The seat shape and easy positioning are more comfortable for me than the W9 seat which, once installed, can’t be very easily repositioned. Since performance between the bikes is equal, I go with what is more comfortable for me.

Thanks. Interesting take i recall DF praising the stability and superior handling and higher securety of the W9 in Pisa. And thought the turning radius supposed to be better than 14m over the Milan. Milan and Bülk are pretty close identical I guess. It sounded like the W9 supposed to be faster than the Milan.@@mnveloguy

@@SuperPathfinder10 DF has claimed quite a lot of things. He doesn’t do testing against other models though. It’s very hard to make accurate comparisons without testing same day with two models set up identically. He’s trying to market his designs, which I understand, but there is a fine line between marketing and misleading information. That’s why it’s very important to test drive models and compare them at the test ride with whatever you might currently be riding. I certainly have not found the W9 to be faster than the Milan or Bülk or Snoek. I would advise doing a test ride and determine for yourself.

I use the light module because I live in the United States where drivers are mostly in very big SUVs. I need the lights as high as possible, especially in the back, so that I can be seen. Many riders here have said that they get a better response from drivers with the light module. For this test I also think it is important for both bikes to have exactly the same setup with light module and mirrors. Otherwise the results will be changed because the bikes are not identical. I could remove mirrors and the light module from both bikes and still they will be equal. The W9 will never be faster than the Bülk because they have the same surface area. It is basic principals of aerodynamics.

@@mnveloguy The statement about the surface area is nonsense - you might want to test a rectangular box with the same surface area...

@@radplan it is not nonsense. It is science. They are similar shapes with similar dimensions. Therefore they will have similar results in the tests. I repeated the test three times with each bike to be sure I was getting accurate results. The bikes are aerodynamically the same. The only difference is the W9 cost me $2000 more. But at least I can fit wider winter tires in the front of the W9. It will be my winter bike and backup bike if I have to do work on the Bülk.

I’ve not had to deal much with punctured. Our roads are bad, but they seem to at least not be bad in that way. The contact urbans seem to be quite durable and that is what I normally run on all three wheels.

@@mnveloguy I live in London. Think the surface of the moon with glass shards everywhere. Location location....and as a result I've never seen a velo in the flesh in recent memory. But I like 'em all the same.

@@sandydennylives1392 there used to be a velomobile dealer in London. John Williams. I think he still lives there. I’m not sure what model he is riding now, but I know he used to ride a lot in London.

@@mnveloguy Some of London isn't a permanent traffic jam I guess, with marathon plus tires some areas might be passable, but not mine. Narrow roads and loads of traffic.

Yes. At some point I can do it with the racing hoods, but it might be awhile before that is possible. It is dangerously hot here right now. I also need to make modifications to the W9 hood to make it fit better and improve the view from the side windows. Right now the view is so poor that it is dangerous for me to drive in traffic with it.

If your view through the hood is bad, then most probably your seating (esp.: head) position is not optimal. As far as I could see from earlier discussions, the seat position is not correct and was not optimized by Daniel. This might also explain why you are using external mirrors on the W9, which are not necessary on the W/M/A9, which all are equipped with internal mirrors, which work perfectly when riding w/o hood, provided the seat/head position is correct.

@@radplan yes. My seating position is not optimal. I am working to get that fixed. However, when I was riding with the hood I tried several different head positions to see if I could improve the view. It was equally bad no matter how far forward or back or high or low I held my head. I have done this same experiment with the integrated mirrors and did not find a position that gave me the view I need. I also wanted to mount the mirrors on the body because if I ride with the foam cover I would have no mirrors and that would be bad.

@@mnveloguy As human heads (esp. eye position) does not vary significantly, it is very hard to believe that you could not find a position to be able to use the internal mirrors.

@@radplan I do not yet have the new seat to change my seating position. But even if I did, I would still want mirrors mounted on the shell because sometimes I will use the foam cockpit cover when it rains. I also found that the right mirror, no matter where my head is, did not give me the view I wanted to the side. I would rather have mirrors mounted on the body than get run into by yet another car. And all of this is completely irrelevant to this test. To get accurate results both bikes have to be set up exactly the same. Otherwise you are comparing features of the bikes and not the bikes themselves.

It won’t change the fact that the two bikes are equal. Feel free to do the math and post it here.

​@@mnveloguyThat was meant in general. Differences are hardly noticeable in this low power range. Try the same program at 30-35 mph

@@luigimercure4560 I cannot sustain that type of speed nor do I have a hill around here that would allow me to go that fast for more than .75 miles. The vast majority of riders are not riding in that range. As I said in the video, this test is an average rider on an average course doing average power and an average speed. It is not meant to settle any debate beyond that nor did I advertise it in that way.

Bestimmt

strava.app.link/8uLPA8fkMAb this is the W9 runs

And this is the runs with the Bülk strava.app.link/WbaSOGlkMAb

I also want to say that the pavement of American roads costs way more watts than the pavement of German roads. Our roads here are absolutely terrible. I’m Germany I thought elastomer suspension was the best thing ever. And then I did my first ride here with it. I hate elastomer suspension 😂

No, because I cannot sustain 30mph nor do I have a flat course anywhere remotely close to me to even attempt a consistent speed. The average wattage was consistent across all 6 runs and matches what I have gotten from previous rides. I don’t expect everyone to be convinced. All that matters or me is that people buy the velomobile that suits them best and makes them happiest.

Yes. Yes you do. If you’re near Minneapolis MN, I can hook you up with a test ride 🙂

If you enjoyed watching that, check this video where I do 30mph at 160-180 watts. Nothing beats aerodynamic efficiency 😎 kzfaq.info/get/bejne/n6ubfMpi0bmlhHU.html

Different in what way?

@@mnveloguy how they feel to pedal, stiffness, when you turn…

@@romaincondat6332 I’ve got a second video planned to compare features. I guess I need to expand that to talk about ride experience. This is all subjective of course because it can not be measured, but the Bülk feels stiffer to me. When I stomp on the pedals I just feel like I’m pushing against something really solid. The W@ doesn’t feel flexy like a quest, but it doesn’t feel quite as solid as the Bülk. I need to test acceleration because I can tell the W9 is lighter, but I don’t know yet if that offsets the stiffer build of the Bülk. My suspicion is the Bülk will climb better. Beyond that, they feel very similar to ride. I was shocked by how identical the times were and even in the video you can see how evenly it is lining up the whole route. I intentionally chose a course that I’ve ridden a ton of times and know really well. If there was a difference, it would have shown up.

@@romaincondat6332 regarding turning, the elastomers are definitely stiffer and I feel like I can corner a bit faster in the W9, but I can’t accurately judge cornering between them until I fix the turning circle. The factory was provided with incorrect numbers for setting up the steering. The track should be 55cm instead of 58cm, the struts should be 5mm closer towards each other, and the wheels should be dished in 2mm more. That will impact cornering and likely make it feel less stable than it is now.

Haha. No, I own a car. I ride a velomobile because it's a ton of fun. Better protection should I get hit by a car (see my previous videos about the safety of a velomobile). Keeps the sun off in the summer, keeps me much warmer in the winter. And it's fast. Fast is fun. I can do road bike speeds at about half the wattage a road biker would need. Plus I can carry a lot of stuff without any aerodynamic penalty making it great for running errands. Why drive a car and pollute the environment while spending a ton of money on gas when I can have a blast riding my velomobile instead? It's a no brainer for me!