Bump Steer Correction on my BMW M3 Track Car takes two weeks. How?

Рет қаралды 23,819

Күн бұрын

The Bump Steer Correction on my BMW M3 takes a little longer than I thought it would. Who would have thought a job like this would escalate like this!
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Chapters:
0:00 Intro
1:22 Why does my bump steer need correcting?
3:10 How to check bump steer with Longacre gauge
4:05 How bad is my bump steer?
5:28 How can I correct the bump steer?
6:23 How the lower arm and track rod effect bump steer
6:53 Testing with washers
7:33 retesting bump steer at ride height
8:45 Making new bump steer tie rod pin
11:17 Is it causing toe in or toe out?
13:45 Does caster change bump steer?
15:08 That's escalated
15:30 Modifying the coilover bottom bracket
17:22 Bump Steer is fixed
18:06 explaining the fix again off the car
20:38 On the lathe again to fix the roll centre pin
22:22 Made a new Anti Roll Bar Arm
23:32 Thank you
#bumpsteer #bmwm3 #trackcar

Пікірлер: 113

@SecksJay 10 ай бұрын

The burden that is your endless pursuit of perfection must be crippling Phil. Makes for great videos though so, keep it up 😅

@alanbryson68 10 ай бұрын

Was it because you decided to totally rebuild everything from scratch again by any chance lol

@Vince32. 10 ай бұрын

The dedication and engineering to get this car to perfection sides with us car enthusiast. Love that one thing leads to another with you Phil.

@99hjhm 10 ай бұрын

The worst thing is to zinc plate a 12.9 bolt, especially with out correct deembrittlement which very few places manage to get right. Century heat treatment by you one of the few. Steve Morris and Driftworks both great channels as no bs and full honesty when it doesn’t quite work out.

@basher1285 10 ай бұрын

Ever have the voice of your parents in your ear saying ‘why did you have to mess about with it in the 1st place, there was nothing wrong with it how it was’ Or instead of the warning in an airbus cockpit saying ‘pull up’ ‘pull up’ did you hear, ‘too tight, ‘ too tight’ Ridiculously techy build, amazing attention to detail as always, can’t wait to see it on track ❤

@mrmoss149 10 ай бұрын

Phil- they grow up so fast, you'll wonder where the days went. Mine are grown; save the weekends for them. Trust me. Thanks

@vogs72 10 ай бұрын

You and @Stanceworks with your obsession with suspension geometry vs Jay - ‘I don’t want to know’! 😂

@vegardxf 10 ай бұрын

Not much work with a hammer anymore, you guys are advancing well! Love the great ideas

@Covkiller 10 ай бұрын

Hammer ? You mean Birmingham Screw Driver 🤣

@vegardxf 10 ай бұрын

@@Covkiller yes! The one you dont use to fix a turbo 😉

@leeadler4221 10 ай бұрын

Saw this at Mallory Park on Sunday - the thing sounded incredible!

@fast_eddie3441 10 ай бұрын

Great stuff to watch! Good luck guys

@mrmoss149 10 ай бұрын

Love how the caliper is hanging around..... 😆 😆 😆

@loilloil2 10 ай бұрын

the insane dedication is why i love this channel👍😎

@Ricky-cl5bu 10 ай бұрын

Very educational great to watch brilliant

@himwiththehair 10 ай бұрын

I wouldnt worry about the 12.9 pin hardness Phil. I've looked up a couple of studies for pretty much the same reasons, because making cutoms pins out of bolts is a nice easy work around. The conclusion was that measured hardness varied very little throughout the length and diameter of the fasteners tested, with only a small decrease towards the middle of the shank. Absolutely love watching all your tinkering to perfect this beast and make it what you want and are happy with. Keep up the good work and thanks for filming as much as you manage to so we can all watch!

@driftworks 10 ай бұрын

Good to know. Cheers 👍

@ChristopherHallett 10 ай бұрын

Yes - hardening and tempering for fasteners isn't like case hardening for things like padlock shackles - the fastener needs to be consistent all the way through for maximum quality assurance.

@yyams 10 ай бұрын

@@driftworks It may be worth investing in a simple file hardness testing kit, the most economical way of working out how hard something like this is. I can imagine it would come in handy in more ways that one would expect.

@anidiotinaracingcar4874 10 ай бұрын

Angling it down was a brilliant move! I couldn't help but shiver seeing the calipers dangling like that, though

@andrewjohnson9896 10 ай бұрын

Another wonderfully inspirational video guys.

@ironmantooltime 10 ай бұрын

The refinement that's gone into this beast is off the scale 🙌 Edit: first 😎

@mushsport 10 ай бұрын

I like your vids before even watching them. Just happy to see a new upload from Driftworks 👍

@driftworks 10 ай бұрын

Appreciate it man! This is a geeky one so will no doubt get very little love 😂

@mushsport 10 ай бұрын

My pleasure! You say geeky but this should be very educational for many and balls deep modifying as always 🤘 Great content imo

@johnrowell942 10 ай бұрын

Thank you for sharing ur knowledge about bumb steer and how things have a knock-on effect. Small insit to race cars. Like BTCC 👍

@timbassett2032 10 ай бұрын

Love the videos of you tinkering on the e30, saw it at Mallory looked and sounded awesome

@driftworks 10 ай бұрын

Thanks 👍

@andersson-motorsport 10 ай бұрын

I went the exact same path for about 8 month ago, did the same work to get bumpsteer good, and also caster that killed my electric servo. This video would helped me a lot at the moment, haha. Mega work 🔥👍

@mrmoss149 10 ай бұрын

" Just simply" is right up there with " can you just"...

@hoonaticbloggs5402 10 ай бұрын

Hit the like button for Phil’s dry sump

@T.Cun. 10 ай бұрын

That murica Imperial measurement system 😂👌

@richardsowter8914 10 ай бұрын

Obviously the e36 won’t go down a similar rabbit hole…. Good work boss!

@brettschleis6629 10 ай бұрын

How much additional space would a dry sump pan provide? That seems like the logical next step for your build. I know it’s expensive but it will provide multiple benefits.

@ealoken 10 ай бұрын

Have you thought of E30 DTM spindles from vink motorsport? They raise the wheel bearing a bit vs OEM.

@driftworks 10 ай бұрын

It wouldn't help me. I need every bit of adjustment I've created. Otherwise the engine would have to be 2" higher.

@spazda_mx5 10 ай бұрын

Nice lathing 👍

@driftworks 10 ай бұрын

Thanks 👍

@tonybrider 10 ай бұрын

Do you supply adjustable drop links?

@ninjabob8170 10 ай бұрын

Thought it was gonna need more than bump steer correction when it got a bit spicy on the brakes into Mallory hairpin…😂😂😂

@driftworks 10 ай бұрын

And me. 😂. There's a pretty funny story behind that 'incident'. That you'll see in the next video 👍

@ninjabob8170 10 ай бұрын

@@driftworks awesome, looking forward to it. Cheers for bringing it to the event.👍🏻

@123divad 10 ай бұрын

Whats the inside of the front wheel been rubbing on kerbs?, great vlog again

@driftworks 10 ай бұрын

The tension rod before I moved it's mounting point by remaking the lower arm for the 4th time 😂

@jaffamatt 10 ай бұрын

Can you recommend a guide, or maybe even do a video, that explains about suspension geometry and the effects on handling please? 👊🏻

@bigmattolly4910 10 ай бұрын

I like using lasers when working out bum steer so you can see it. Long shot buuuut would you consider using s25 knuckles on it??

@bigmattolly4910 10 ай бұрын

I mean s15

@wmwnwmn 10 ай бұрын

E36 knuckles always are a little wonky over e30 m3 geometry…but you’ve already gone so far outside the box that probably doesn’t correlate. have you thought about measuring e30 M3 spindles or the late DTM replica spindles? Maybe it’s a better starting point for complete rebuild v4.

@driftworks 10 ай бұрын

Someone else mentioned that above. I'd be interested to know the flaws in 36 stuff on a normal 30. But mine is so massively modifed with my own position for the front turrets, rack, lower arms, tension rods, modified lower brackets, custom arb, and coilover mount arb drop links, I can't see how what I'm doing with the E36 uprights is anything except an upgrade.

@p0intdk 10 ай бұрын

Hey Phil, now that I have seen the video and you when thru all of this work already, did you consider what the Silvia people do? Using something like the "OFFSET STEERING RACK EXTENDERS" gktech sells and use that to move the inner steering arm point up? Regardless hope it works out what you done 😄

@driftworks 10 ай бұрын

We were one of the first companies to design offset rack spacers. Our design on Silvias has sold around 5000 pieces, and is what most of the other companies benchmarked and copied 👍

@p0intdk 10 ай бұрын

@@driftworks ok, then why did you not use that instead?

@driftworks 10 ай бұрын

If you ever have a bump, the offset rack spacer can put enough force on the rack to pretty easily bend it. It also moves the pivot point outboard which in itself can cause bump steer.

@YootubeUK 10 ай бұрын

You could do with some 18"s on the front to give you a touch more clearance at the tie rod end, or raise the car. We know that sump is coming off again for extra clearance so you can raise the rack, again! LOL! Oh it's all good fun. :)

@driftworks 10 ай бұрын

18's would be a real compromise for me, so I'm willing to go to pretty serious lengths to make sure that doesn't happen. Regarding the sump: The moment KZfaq pays enough for me to justify a dry sump, it's happening 😂

@YootubeUK 10 ай бұрын

@@driftworks If my lottery numbers come up, I'll buy you one. 3 numbers doesn't count BTW...

@ClassicSam. 10 ай бұрын

I’d like to see the alignment!

@driftworks 10 ай бұрын

We've done it a few times: Currently running: Front -4* camber, 8* caster, 2mm toe out total. Rear -3* camber, 3mm toe in total.

@Levent_Ergun 10 ай бұрын

I guess this is why maths and physics classes were important. I wish I listened lol.

@driftworks 10 ай бұрын

I didn't listen. I left school with one C grade GSCE. I can learn when I'm interested though.

@farturinn 10 ай бұрын

Could you go with a bigger set of wheels? 18" maybe and then get more space for modifications?

@driftworks 10 ай бұрын

I could, but I don't want to. 18's are too big on an E30.

@farturinn 10 ай бұрын

Fair enough@@driftworks Using 18" on my E36 only because of brake size, but its a pain to get tire sizes

@7MPower 10 ай бұрын

Isn't there a set of wheels wich will give you more room to lower the balljoint?

@driftworks 10 ай бұрын

Only 18’s which I don’t want.

@anidiotinaracingcar4874 10 ай бұрын

Does the car have a power steering fluid radiator?

@driftworks 10 ай бұрын

There is no fluid. It's Epas

@TBendez 10 ай бұрын

It's like "can you just" really, really backfired and got outta hand quickly! On the other hand, what else can you do? It seems like you really couldn't avoid doing this.

@David_Conant 10 ай бұрын

Are larger wheels an option?

@driftworks 10 ай бұрын

I don't want to run 18's if I can help it. That would have been an easy way to solve it.

@renny4861 10 ай бұрын

21:55 somebody had better tell Colin Furze 😂

@driftworks 10 ай бұрын

😄

@harjunLFS 10 ай бұрын

I run genuine group A front uprights on my e30 with MRT arms. You’re welcome to borrow an assembly if you’d like for some measurements. E36 front setup is a massive compromise on an e30, seems like a false economy trying to persist with it.

@driftworks 10 ай бұрын

I'd be interested to learn what makes the 36 uprights a compromise on an E30 with all the work I've done?

@harjunLFS 10 ай бұрын

@@driftworks the roll centre, KPI and inner tie rod + inner control arm pickup point are still compromised despite what you’ve corrected with the dynamic toe changes. It’s worth looking at what was done on the group A e30s and the later e36s which used the same front setup.

@driftworks 10 ай бұрын

Do you have non standard rack position and inboard lower arm mounting points? My KPI is optimised for the camber and wheel clearance required to clear the coilover spring,. Caster is perfect. Bump steer is perfect and roll centre is as good as it can get on a 17" wheel. I'm always game to learn and improve the car, but I believe the only limitation I have is the vertical rack position. I could probably get it 20mm higher with a dry sump, but that's a strong £10,000 to spend to make the car slightly better 😂

@harjunLFS 10 ай бұрын

Yes my rack is raised and the control arm inner pickup point on the subframe is raised as per the dtm cars I forget the measurement but it’s a significant amount more than the rubbish system the MRT arms come with. Have you seen how the inner tie rod pickup is raised on the dtm cars? So it retains rack position but actually lifts the pickup point of the inner tie rod a decent amount. Maybe you can try apply this concept to your rack? Maybe worth considering also running 18” so you can fit more roll centre adjustment within the rim but tbh all of what you’ve done on the will work fine for most UK trackday sfuff 👍 I can send you more pics for what works well on the front.

@driftworks 10 ай бұрын

I have. We have a lot of experience with offset rack spacers. I wouldn't use them unless I had to, as even a small impact on the wheel can easily bend a rack. I've killed a few in my lifetime. I can't raise the rack any more than it is currently, so that's the limit point. The stock outer tie rod position isn't actually what I want to use. I'd like the steering ratio to be a little quicker, so I may make my own adapter (or complete upright) that would then allow for even more roll centre and bump correction at the hub.

@jamieburke2541 10 ай бұрын

Have you studied motorsport engineering Phil? Your geometry knowledge is impressive

@driftworks 10 ай бұрын

I haven't. I just enjoy the subject. I learnt most of what I know messing about with drift cars.

@tomasdevine7756 10 ай бұрын

I thought an astra steering pump is the one drifters use its bulliet proof.

@driftworks 10 ай бұрын

It is if you have a power steering rack. Mine is a custom Titan Engineering manual rack. There's no room for anything bigger under the engine.

@aidengibson499 10 ай бұрын

How much of this is caused by wanting the mega low ride height? Wouldn't a more sensible ride height eliminate so much of this work?

@driftworks 10 ай бұрын

That's the easy way yes. The car would be compromised in my eyes though.

@dreamworksmarc 10 ай бұрын

saw the piece they did on your 993. late brake show?? if the people only knew how many times you tried to ''better'' that car......

@yyams 10 ай бұрын

I'm surprised hardened bolts aren't through hardened.... That seems, well, i'm sure ther's a reason for it. I guess you could alway give it the old file test.

@yyams 10 ай бұрын

And I read down 5 comments to find it's already been discussed and confirmed by soemone who ACTUALLY knows what they're talking about. Ahhh, comment sections eh. Full of people like me.

@mv6160 10 ай бұрын

Would this help in future builds ? kzfaq.info/get/bejne/equnkrJjzrC0g40.html

@driftworks 10 ай бұрын

How would a different ECU help?

@mv6160 10 ай бұрын

@@driftworks skip the ecu part, first 2 min or so, there’s something might help with suspension

@PeaceDotExe 10 ай бұрын

am i insane for thinking there must be some stronger electric power steering motor out there you could have fitted instead of doing all this?

@driftworks 10 ай бұрын

No you're not. I did consider it, but aftermarket EPAS like DCE Motorsport is insanely expensive and still not a guarantee that it will fix the problem. I had decided that I wanted to change to mechanical PAS using a standard E92M3 rack and pump, but on further investigation there just isn't room. So this was the 'quick' and temporary solution to get the car back up and running in time for Retrorides.

@TAG247 10 ай бұрын

And I thought I knew about cars 😅

@joshogden5859 10 ай бұрын

All sounds like an excuse to make the E36 Geomaster drop knuckle I’ve wanted for 6+ years lol

@driftworks 10 ай бұрын

I want to make one. Mine wouldn't be much use to most other people though 😂

@joshogden5859 10 ай бұрын

@@driftworks yours is a very specific requirement haha. I guess for the longest time the E36 scene was “build as cheap as possible” so never made sense to R&D. A drop knuckle that fit under 17’s would be awesome though 🙏🏼

@jamest5149 10 ай бұрын

Please drop ‘thou’s’ and ‘inches’… just use metric for the love of god and headache’s everywhere other than the US and old timers in the UK who probably don’t watch KZfaq 😂 Your new digital ‘dial gauge’ will help my zen

@driftworks 10 ай бұрын

I'm right there with you. Antiquated shit be gone.

@Barry.ONeill 10 ай бұрын

I think you enjoy the misery 😂 I'd of started all over again by now 😅

@AxlMetcalf 10 ай бұрын

I know Phil knows his shit but 3.8mm of bump steer for full stroke isn’t that bad at all …. Or is this just a hunt for perfection like the rest of the build ;)

@driftworks 10 ай бұрын

That was over 1" . I'm of the mind that if it can be better then ultimately I have to make it better.

@AxlMetcalf 10 ай бұрын

@@driftworks oh my bad thought it was from top to bottom of travel

@ChristopherHallett 10 ай бұрын

Jay does need to wear his ear defenders - how's he going to enjoy listening to all his jungle records if he's deaf?

@rob1984p 10 ай бұрын

Tight as! Could be fruity if you egg a wheel. I hate how self conscious everyone feels showing their welds on the internet - the people that complain would probably still empty their kiwis if they saw an F40 - and they have properly ugly welds.

@YootubeUK 10 ай бұрын

I've seen Lamborghini factory chassis welds years back and those were shocking.

@PatrickSwayzeOnDbol 8 ай бұрын

You are brave letting your little girl hold the airline. I've had 16yr old apprentices that I would trust, half of them can't even use the broom and sweep the workshop properly.

@pepy977 10 ай бұрын

Just to correct you thou is not some strange American measurements as I'm sure you know its the british imperial system which we still use in this country for engineering as its a more accurate measurements. So you need to get your facts right

@driftworks 10 ай бұрын

I thought it was pretty damn obvious that I'm joking. Obviously not 😂