This reminds me of my time riding sleds. I went from a 440 to a 700 that would just stand up and do 100 in an instant. So many people go nuts and kill themselves.

Big facts

Amen bro. Holding a 125 wide open around a sweet outdoor track is the best feeling in the world, so much fun!!!

So true. Same with auto racing.

You know the math is off when they start putting traction control on dirt bikes, x no longer equals y there's a leak.

@@Kyle_Nettleton41 brooooo you’re so right! No better feeling then throwing a leg over a 99’ YZ or CR, shit any old 125 at that and just holding her wide open

Yes it was. And the reason is that was before some government environmental groups started telling us what to make and ride. It is actually the difference between the philosophies of liberty and the free market vs communistic philosophy.

Sound better too😍

I think they should take it back to 125/250 class and 250/450 class.

I agree.

You could throw a 125 Two stroke around like a Bmx bike!

we’re on the same page. i agree 100%

Getting a bigger bike because your wrist hurts too much to twist the throttle and get the rpm up is hilarious.

@@Jake-bt3fc About as hilarious as your interpretation of my comment lol.

Huge respect for anyone getting on a Moto track at nearly 50yrs of age.

@@M14armorer I'm gonna be 66y.o. and getting back into Senior Class MX locally.

My 4 stroke needed valve replacement quite often and that’s nearly $500. All my buddies on their 4’s were constantly doing insanely expensive work just to ride it. Two strokes, all you’ll need is a new plug here and there and the occasional top end (which is still half the price of valves). I bought a 4 and ended to going back to a two smoker.

Lmfao.

My dads got an awesome set of tools......😂

@@joshbarnes5784 I can fix it

Yasssssss

That's not a bad idea tho

Never even put thought to that before.

The hottest 350 ever built for sure tho.

350, then 390, and eventually I think he settled on a 410. I dont think he’s ever raced a true 450 much.

Its not until 2016 or 17 he ran the 450sxf i remeber reading something saying he didnt have the technique for a 450

@@matthewwest1262 he often raced bikes badged as 450. But they had custom displacements. He was on a 350 back during his Yamaha days.

100 percent correct

But this is where people should know where they’re experienced or not! I raise protection dogs, I won’t sell a dog to just anyone and there’s certain dogs for certain people! I call idiots that buy these and die! Thinning of the herd. I don’t ride, I wouldn’t go buy a 450 for my first bike. So this is where common sense should come into play.

What’s a lot? And did they die because they were on a 450? You can still go fast as hell on a 250.

Girls race 450s men race 500 2ts

Gear a 450 higher,make sure your suspension is on point.Anybody can ride a 450.Ride a gear high,and fan the clutch.It's 4 stroke goddamit.☝️Not like the light switch 2 stroke 500's we used to ride,back in the day 🙈

Amen!! Even more brutal than the 450!!

@@jacobhendrickson8935 no

@@vaughanhodgson I think they are way more brutal. Take a good spin on a well prepped 500 2 stroke.

500cc two-strokes are WAY WAY beyond anything even a good rider would ever need or want. I used to race them back in the 80's and 90's. Believe me bro. No one really ever tames a 2-stroke 500.

There is a reason there was only a handful of guys that could ride them competitively. They had to basically do away with the class because it became merely an exhibition

Me too.

I've never ridden a 250 two-stroke, but I did ride a 450 for a year. How much faster is a 450 than a 250 two-stroke?

Awww. Someone couldn’t handle it

Lol Ryan is so old thinks everything going to be like like cr250 2 stroke this is why he has no involvement in this sport minus is very little training clinic that non one amateur a class or pro has ever attend he was pushed out of feld because he doesn't have a clue he's smoked so much weed and he doesn't no what's going on he's a smooth talking snake oil salesman.

@@slickbishop116 facts bunch of idiots here ryhno power is also shit nobody uses it anymore for a reason

I agree man. Counterbalanced 250 2 strokes are the best engines for dirtbikes I think.

Honda and kawasaki and suzuki should bring back the 2 stroke. Sales would spike

Exactly what I thought when he said the 450s are too fast. I thought we’ll shit you want it to be more safe and see the skill of the riders bring back the 250 2 stroke

Just bought a beautiful 04 RM250 about a month ago and it absolutely rips. Perfect weight and power.

@Louis Smithson-Oaks I see what ur saying but those electric bikes are auto and have one gear , how would that rlly be any fun or competitive?

Yep, my experience was about the same but it all went bad for me on a mountain bike. The speeds are so slow on the hilly, loamy, and sandy areas I rode that you kinda get complacent. No safety gear at all was how I rode, just using it as a workout while out of town on a long term job, staying in a motel (keeping a dirt bike and all my gear in there was NOT an option!) Anyway, when pressed for time, I'd stay in close to town and ride mostly stairs and parking lot stuff...the stairs (more specifically parting company with the bicycle at the top of the stairs😮‼️) was what got me. Busted vertebrae, tore open head with many stitches, etc. Motocross and cross country/trail riding is kinda behind me now😪

I rode my two smoke for years without any serious injuries and then I went to a 4 stroke and broke my leg in 7 places racing arenacross.

AMA and FIM once tried to strong arm their respective rule books into regulating the maximum engine size down from 450cc to 350cc.... didn't work out and that's why you only see KTM/Husky and now GasGas making 350's

@@kushpaladin prob because everyone thought they were "strong arming" everyone instead of realizing they were "big braining" everyone.

😂😂 perfect🤟

🤣🤣🤣🤣

Ouch 🐗

lmao im on a 450 and i dont belong, i can admit that haha

I've been riding for 20 years. Bought a 450 after riding a 250 for 15 years. Sold it after a month. As this guy says it's TO fast. I'd much rather ride a 250 at its limit which is a blast rather than ride a 450 at half pace. Not to mention they're heavy as hell. Don't get me wrong, they're a blast when you're out in the open but on a track they're useless. Even for a very experienced rider.

Great bike!! Even for a bigger rider, it’s fun to toss around, especially tight technical areas.

I had a 2003 220r for two years. One of the best bikes I've ever owned

I had the KDX 250, what a tractor.

I grew up on a 92 200. That same bike even hauled my 220 lbs and gear across the states twice on the Continental Divide Trail, 2016 and 2017. My dad still has the bike, and rode it 72 miles on Fathers Day. It has 6,500 miles on it... all stock save the FMF Fatty.

I have a 1988 and a 2000 KDX200. I am old, not a skilled rider, but they are fun.

And if you use bean oil or Klotz they smell sweet.

Those things are as fast if not faster than a 450 man

@@steticbrah5609 ok then bring back the 500 2 strokes!

@@steticbrah5609 uhhhhhh no

...says Ronnie Mac🤣

@@steticbrah5609 they're really not. 450's are insanely powerful. 250 2-strokes are way more manageable

They most certainly have a place but should be sold with caution to beginners lol I know it has warning labels but no one reads those 🤣

The new 450s are 30% faster than the 450s from 20 years ago. Its ridiculous. The Yamaha 250F is even ridiculously fast.

Because he couldn't have done the same on a 250?

No because he could’ve reacted differently On a 250, he may have been able to gain control on a 250 because it wouldn’t have been so rapid acceleration.

@@Ruckshuk4101stop being delusional they both pull hard af nowadays one you ride calm collected and focused the other you ride charged. Knowing the difference is key.

@@chrisvillarreal2752 true they both hella fast

@@Ruckshuk4101 hells yeah they hit the same exact jumps in supercross so you know damn well those 250 horses can fly at a moments notice.

There's only one gold country that I know of and that's Northern Ca. Sierra foothills. Like Coloma.

100%, if Kawi made a 350 I’d buy it, my 250 is good but being a bigger guy I think the 350 would be that nice medium in between for me, I’m not skilled enough to ride a 450. I can ride one and have ridden one but it’s not that fast

They used to do it. They’ve been out of touch with their consumers for 40 years, that’s why the Austrian group took over.

@@JohnHowerton137 Bc people still want 2 strokes and they don’t listen so it gave the Austrians a way in

@@justinwhittaker3819 that's part of it for sure. They basically don't listen to anything. Look at the ADV & Dual Sport markets. Talk about out of touch with consumers 🤣

Imagine a 2 stroke Honda CR 350

Yes, Jeremy McGrath in the 90’s and Ricky Carmichael in 2000’s on the 250 2-strokes are the reason we even bothered to be interested in MX!#G.O.A.T.#🐐#250/2-stroke@MEANISSHOW

Pros have traction control no they don't it's band you washed up drug addict.

Tomac ripping on his KX 250 2-stroke on his practice track, beautiful video.🇺🇸

It's because a 250cc 2 stroke hits so hard all at once and steers with the rear it's more involved to hold speed and try to get traction. A 450cc 4 stoke is a lazy man's bike smooth power but easier to go fast less gear changing less braking to do no clutch needed out of turns.

I love my 350’s. Im still fine with others having the option. Nothing is stopping Eli from sleeving down his KX.

You just described me to a tee. Also 57 years old and on a 250F which I truly love. My 200EXC was still one of my favorite woods bikes.

Omg you have an rvf400? That must be an insanely fun bike to ride. My 650 four was just a hair too fast when I was trying to push it.

I haven’t rode in 10 years and then my wife’s family all races and I wanted to get back into it. So I bought an 09 kx450f. I haven’t killed myself yet but when I get on it I know how much power it has. 3rd gear spins are shifts on dirt and asphalt. Their really to much to be on the average market I do believe. I seen a guy on a gas gas 450 trail bike and it’s so much more mellow than my motorcross bike. Just the engine mapping could save lives

@@dakotadickens3747 trail bike usually detuned compared to mx bikes tho

Yeah, it's fun until you miss it by 3ft. LOL

What’s the weight bro

ya i have a yz250f and am about to get a new 350 sxf. heard nothing but good things about them

Funny thing is the modern 350's have the same, or more, power of the 450's just 10 years ago.

what kind of street bike have you ridden? just curious

they are then time faters now bro that was almost 20 years ago!

I think 250 two stroke is enough power and still enjoyable to ride for someone who rides for fun. I just rode a 450 for first time couple weeks ago and I was scared. Never felt that way on any other bike but I never rode a 500 two.

@@bloomerb4162 exactly, they are plenty and it actually requires a bit of rider skill to ride, meanwhile the four strokes don’t require too much rider skill

@@dylanstein8286 it's good for people who can't corner, they can still make the jumps.

@@bloomerb4162 yeah exactly

Not everyone who throws their leg over a bike is looking to go as fast as the bike can go. Most people do this for fun and a 450 is fun. I ride a 450 and don’t use it like Tomac or Roczen. There is no evidence that a 450 can hurt you anymore than a 250 either.. this sport is a dangerous sport.

Death wobble is a suspension tuning issue, nothing to do with the bike's traits. Too stiff front and or rear shock.

@@Hanibul_Lecktor Please, dude. There are several issues that can cause a high-speed wobble. You have no idea what his bike was like. Could be anything from wheel imbalance to swingarm bearings to .... anything.

It would be beneficial in many many ways

Me too! I'd also be real interested in a yz300x enduro two stroke.

Drop the f and I'd buy one too

@Pete good one. Maybe one day when you stop giving a crap how fast everyone is you’ll enjoy yourself.

Amen im 44 i have a 250 and i have a blast

@@Shoorit So I have been racing the local NESC circuit up in New England for the past 25 yrs..back when it was 125/250/500 2 strokes, all the way til today..(Im 52 today so I ride the VET)...and I have had 250f,350f, and my current bike is a 2020.5 Rockstar 450 and the only track I can ride it where it really opens up to where it comes close to it's potential is Southwick, which is like beach sand. It is like cheating with the amount of power that is on tap. At Southwick, the motor will bog down were it is actually working and I can get out of 3rd gear for a while, but all other tracks it is very short bursts of power and to avoid a handful, I get it into 3rd gear and lug around all day..what would really be a good change is to make a 350 that doesn't make all its power at 13.5k where it currently makes like 55 hp, its too high of an rpm and is like a 250 2 stroke but better,,they can do this with some engine design changes in relation to bore x stroke with new cam profile and exh but they don't bc the test rider and big wigs who makes the choices analyze marketing metrics based on what they feel will sell the best, with the best margin for profit, not what is best for the customer in terms of what they like.

@@themotocrossmodchannelWulfMX true a 450 at cccmx is alittle to much

@@stephenwolinski4651 Im a lifetime member there and it is just throttle, chop, back on, off, etc,,it fun to play on the jumps but when I spend more time trying to slow down and brake for the jumps, its just too much bike for that layout.

How often do you have to redo cranks? I’m cheap. I’m holding onto my 450 because I figure since I run lower rpm I’ll go through cranks less often.

Ktm??

@@PatrickMoto97 i did 105 mostly fast amateur racing hours hours on my 17 350 on the first standard piston, oops, finally got around to it and it was mint when i took it out, zero issues over the 170hrs I owned that bike, engine wise. I did oj a an awkward jump and blew the air fork seals about 20hrs and swapped to a spring conversion but they massively improved the forks for the new models, they don't have that issue. Im Now 50hrs in on my 2020 and again zero issues so far. The KTMs are the most reliable bikes in our paddocks each year

@@diychad7268 yeah both ktms a 17 and 20 350

ah man I would kill for one of those old YZ250s lol. Just an awesome bike.

Spot on mate !!!!!!!! 250fs dont last as long

How often does a novice rider need to replace a top end on a 250f?

@william hummerick I rebuild my 125 2 stroke top end every year. But it costs less than $200 & can I do it myself

That's why he is saying a 350. Best of both worlds for amateur racers and riders.

@@ZULUXXXMAUI If you race a two-smoke 125, you're going to rebuild the top-end twice a month. Or more if you actually practice 3-4 days a week. And if you don't do that, you should not be racing. Just ride and rebuild it when it blows. Clean your filter every ride and it might last a year.

Not quite, average supercoss speeds are only around 25mph with top speeds around 45.

@@RyanMcIntyre nah man at Atlanta they were around 60 mph man

@@RyanMcIntyre but every other track yes Atlanta was just fast and wide open

@@shrimpshow5458 and you know that figure for a fact how?

@@RyanMcIntyre 3rd gear pinned on a 450 is 60 mph and I watched them at high point this year they never let off I’d say they were running over 65-70 at some parts at high point especially the big quad at Atlanta watch there helmet cams in practice in some of those sessions they were fucking getting it man you must not ride the track much

I think you will find they are stock motors and that the stock bikes are detuned compared to what they race so I don't think that will solve anything. 350F or 400F is probably the best way forward. rename the 250 class to the 250 class and bring in a junior lites class for up to 19 years of age for 125T or 180F bikes.

@@carisi2k11 you are a fool please stay away from the sport

Agreed 💯%

Agreed stock motor...the factory motors are no way near stock.. 15 years ago some factory motors made 70hp+...

Huh? You actually ride right??

So do I

You are right. The old 2 strokes 500s got so powerful that most normal guys couldn’t ride them fast. Maybe a 400cc limit for 2 strokes open class bikes would have saved the open class.

Definitely, the CR500 is still the badest bike ever made...

@@joesolo9946 baddest 2 stroke maybe. The 450s are way closer to a 500 than you think.

All those shootouts are always from a pro racer’s perspective and never from the perspective of the average weekend warrior

And all modern day bikes are light ☝️

My cousin married a guy who's 300 pounds 6'7" and he told me he couldn't even handle one of those

Brian Deegan said it too.

No bro try to keep the ref down and gears up and it wil smoothly bring a smile on your face I’ll bet , It’s a flow you need to get jused on but when you got it you’ll actually going to be pretty fast with almost no bark it’s still a lot of work they are heavy but I’m never going back

@@oldbblazzurk7858 i said what i did cause im a new rider, and i dont want to hurt someone else 450. been watching allot of the gypsy tales podcasts got meinto racing

Not to mention short of a full factory bike, it's hard to dispute millions of dollars poured into R&D from top manufacturers; to the extent you have to question if you are really adding dyno numbers with bolt-ons

Those 110s are literally a blast, me and a buddy absolutely thrashed those growing up

Typo but we get ya.

Ditto, I was riding with a buddy and tried his 350 and it just had more power than I was expecting, more than enough yet it didn't wear me out as fast as the bigger bikes. So I bought one too!

My '99 yzf was $5800 brand new. It's crazy now.

@@welderlogic1806 $5,800 in 1999 is just over $9,200 in 2021 accounting for inflation sooooooo

@@brennanlabar2296 yep, and the technology and power on the bikes now are light years ahead.

Lol Ryan is so old thinks everything going to be like like cr250 2 stroke this is why he has no involvement in this sport minus is very little training clinic that non one amateur a class or pro has ever attend he was pushed out of feld because he doesn't have a clue he's smoked so much weed and he doesn't no what's going on he's a smooth talking snake oil salesman.

@@brennanlabar2296 by my calculation the cost should be $8,900. That means the cost of the bikes is outpacing inflation. Especially when they cost well over ten Grand and wages haven't matched inflation.

I loved mine too...best bike ever

Totally agree. They are paid dare devil's now. Constant injuries from pushing the limits.Bodys broken before they hit 25. The average joe blo is never going to ride any of these bikes at the speed the pros do, and for the sake of the argument...yes we never have been at the pro level that's what makes them pro. But too many are chasing this level to the point of risking life long injuries.all trying to out do each other.

@@cv8z231 I don't get it. This is not about 'Bravado' or whatever you want to call it. Children are being maimed and broken and it is life and death. Those motorcycles you see on TV are ***NOT*** what you buy at the dealership. It is not even close. The motorcycles on TV are a Lambo or a Ferrari. The bike you buy at the dealership is like driving a Ford Pinto or Chevy Vega from the 70's, comparatively speaking. Kids are dying out there. Their information is from their dad. I dunno man. My son breaks his neck or has a traumatic brain injury trying to clear a 70' triple on a bike that can do 15'-20'..how does a dad cope after?

Rode a 1000 or 1200 Renagade its really fun. Very different from a banshee but I think the Banshee is faster because of the weight

Nice!

Well yeah, sand is about the only place where a 450 comes in handy. On dirt, we are all quicker on 250s lol

as the old saying goes, a good rider can go fast on a slow bike but slow riders can only talk about how fast their bike is....

I seem to remember seeing Jeff Ward mentioning in a past interview that they were detuning the 500 2t to make it more manageable, it was a much more exhausting bike to ride compared to the 250s back then. 250 4t these day are pretty powerful, but they have absolutely no bottom end. The 350s truly are that sweet spot that's great for most average Joe riders like me. Not explosive from the get go like a 450, its not far off from a 450 in peak hp, but at that point you'd have to ride it like a 250. Best way to describe it for people who don't know, it's like a 250f in how it makes power, only it makes 10hp more everywhere, and more torque everywhere in the rev range, and it doesn't slow down up to the limiter. And unlike a 250f, doesn't mind being lugged around in the lower rpm.

387MTB Racing -- You absolutely nailed it. I don't pay much attention to motocross, but I've known for at least a dozen years that the 450's are just too powerful for motocross tracks. If the manufacturers would pull their heads out of each other's butt and think outside the box, or butt . . . as the case may be, they'd figure out that if they'd PUT SOME DAMN FLYWHEEL on a 450 it would be the perfect desert bike.

It wasn’t competitive that’s why it ended lol the 250s got smoked. Ricky tried to hold out for a bit so did Chad but they made the switch like everyone else to stay fast. Rickys perfect outdoor season was on a 450 for a reason.

@@jonruger Supercross buddy. Pretty sure a 250 won that year easily. Nothing to do with outdoors.

@@derekhealey8515 yeah even in supercross that was the last year for a reason and 250s are slow compared to a 450 sorry to hurt your feelings with facts the only reason some guys rode them in supercross that year was they were still worried they were to heavy but KW proved that wrong and almost everyone followed the next year

@@derekhealey8515 all the people that think like you need to get with the times because electric bikes are about to make all gasoline bikes obsolete once government decides dirt bikes are to bad for the environment they will go all electric or die. So stop begging for oil burning bikes that are terrible for the environment because that just makes environmental agencies want to add more restrictions.

@@jonruger outdoors yeah 450's way quicker. Politics is why the strokers were ousted. Show me lap time comparisons in supercross.??

Same man and I had a 450 and went back to a 250f I think a 250 2 smoke is where I need to be

While I agree, it is comfortable to just cruise while short shifting and using the low-end torque of a liter

I installed a G2 throttle tamer on mine and it changed my perspective on the bike. It does have the power when you need it. Combined with a Tubliss setup, changes everything. :)