How is this memory module any more interesting than SO-DIMMs that we've been using for years?

​@DerekDavis213 supports LPDDR5X so laptop memory manufacturers have no excuse to Sauter ram anymore

@@Westlee_ There is a big excuse to solder ram: charge very high prices for ram upgrades, because the customer cannot upgrade memory themselves.

@@DerekDavis213 I mean to consumers. it means you can finally get performance, energy efficiency and upgradability without sacrificing one. Lpddr5X is more energy efficient and way faster

Shorter Traces, less latency, better signal integrity; easier to hit higher frequency/tighter timings then sodimm, or regular dimms. ​@DerekDavis213

JEDEC is an industrial association consisting of over 300 member companies (not too different to the way the USB-IF works). A lot of the members do contribute resources (either funding or engineering work) to the association, and new standards are jointly developed and ratified with the help of member companies. Seeing as Dell Inc is one of the 300+ members of JEDEC, it's not unusual to see some of their development work ending up in final CAMM specs, and being credited for the work you do is presumably quite standard in this space.

Yeah, it's freaking annoying having to find a cooler and RAM that work together well, and without making speed, latency, or other sacrifices. Now if they only spread it into two separate modules, and possibly 2 connectors on a MoBo, so you can start with like 32GB and get 64GB by adding a module, rather than replacing that which you payed good money for, and have no use for the old one, since with everything hardware speed related, the requirements and price go up faster than the efficiency goes down, if much at all. I remember running a 486DX80 (last predecessor of the K series), graphics card and all on a 250W power supply that was more than sufficient!

Gotta give kudos to Dell for not keeping this proprietary, having laptops with upgradeable low power memory makes me happy.

Asus too, but at the time this was recorded, no others had revealed CAMM2 boards. I think I saw HUB say Asrock wasn't sure it would make it into production

So the camm2 boards are releasing soon, pricing?

@@xlr555usa Probably around the time DDR6 starts coming out. I'm sure some will do it in DDR5 as well.

OCuLink was never great, it‘s mechanically very fragile leading to signal integrity issues after a while and it only handles up to PCIe Gen4. “MCIO” is the connector type that got developed as a response to all the issues encountered and it should even be able to handle PCIe Gen6.

Since handhelds use a custom PCB anyways it just makes more sense to direct solder when the APU is direct soldered. Consumers are going to be far more concerned with increasing storage than increasing memory on a package they can't upgrade the APU. Unless you want a really thick handheld, of course. I've always felt I'd FAR rather return to inch thick laptops if I were able to upgrade the CPU and GPU, but of course laptop makers _don't_ want that cause you'd buy less laptops.

In case you missed it, the module standard calls for quite a large board size to be supported, or rather, we don't know what the size is. As shown on the floor, CAM for ITX is too big, only the laptop version works. Or so it seems. We really don't know, since the "open standard" is closed. If you look carefully at what is shown on the floors, the MB is responsible for the desktop version cooling. It just appears to be too big. Also, back side connectors tend to run through the MB, so combining back side connectors with the desktop version of CAM, seem to be conflicting.

​@@FrodeBergetonNilsen no the board size diesnt matter. You can fit the new camm2 on the back of an itx where nothing exists. Computing is evolving

@@goblinphreak2132 You need to learn to read specs. Seriously learn to read them. That way, you might avoid looking as stup!d as this. If I asked you for the keep out sone on the back of an ATX board, would you even know where to look to be able to answer? Because that is a hint, of even if this folly was true, which it is absolutely not, it still would be a standard violation. Just one you do not even know exists.

@@goblinphreak2132 Clearance would have to be in equal spec of a rear M.2

@@das-das-dasboot7956 have you see how high the camm2 chips sit on the board. msi already showed it off. its basically the same height as m.2.... so yes, its already equal to m.2

Maybe, and reception seems far more positive than I expected but the vast majority of desktop machines will be UDIMM for now...

When Arrow Lake launches, next gen Ryzen will be out there, and superior too.

Arrowlake seems like a move in the right direction. But I'll wait a gen or two for Intel to prove they can make more efficient and stable CPUs.

MSI had one at their computex booth this year. Looks like a nice feature.

I heard 8400 mentioned in another video

@@nadtz The latency is what I am more interested in. The ROG Ally runs something like 6400 CL19 stock due to having the RAM soldered right next to the CPU. CL19 on DDR5!!! I think CAMM will get us closer to that on desktop too. Overclockers already achieved over 10,000 MHz DDR5 with a Ryzen 5 8500G btw.

@@Violet-ui It will be interesting to see. Wonder how long before the stacked designs come out and how much of a difference that will make.

@@Violet-ui Overclocked RAM makes very little difference in real life performance. Remember, the CPU spends most of its time in ultra-fast L1 L2 and L3 caches. Main memory speed is secondary.

@@DerekDavis213 This is just wrong. The 5800X3D is about 20% faster in games than the 5800X because it has the cache to improve memory performance. That means that the 5800X without the extra cache is losing all that performance due to too slow memory. I personally have my memory OCed to where I get 10-15% more fps than XMP in CPU bound games. In some games you can get over 20% better performance with very fast RAM. This is why people still OC their memory. Memory OC does still significantly affect CPU performance.

Yeah finding laptops that has upgradable RAM is becoming more difficult because every laptop manufacturer want the laptop to be as thin and light as possible. Even some of gaming laptops right now has entirely soldered RAM. I really hope CAMM really does change that

what? in reality it makes situation worse ram cooling wise. one side of this ram always be sided with mobo vs old one with air ventilation on both sides. Also socket wise, old 2 hooks no instruments ram out. now you need to unscrew it .... maybe there in future this camm2 can be useful, for now it have only huge disadvantages vs old one

@@vasilypupkin5533 Heatsinks are coming soon. It's inevitable.

​@@vasilypupkin5533how often do you change ram sticks?? It would take like 2 minutes to swap.

also less interfering with CPU coolers

That's what I was thinking at first the way you often see it with sodimms, but with DDR5 _cooling_ is now a concern. For obvious reasons stacked+heat=bad day.

Any new technology won't hit the mid range until it's the universal solution, let alone the low end. They need a carrot on a stick to upsell you with. We see it today with OLED. OLED is _not_ a new technology and it isn't more expensive to produce than LCD with an LED backlight. There's no reason for OLED to cost what it does other than they weren't successful in scamming people into thinking they needed 8k for their overpriced high end displays, so they're going to milk OLED as long as possible. They gatekeep high refresh the same way, putting 120hz panels in cheap TVs, but only let you use it with "motion smoothing" interpolation. They won't give you 120 _connections_ without paying for it, which is ridiculous because all those HDMI connectors cost MORE than royalty free DP. They're literally paying _more_ to gatekeep the feature to high margin displays. Obviously adding 6 more USB slots, another $10 dollars in VRMs, and $2 in RGB shouldn't magically make a $150 motherboard become $399, but they purposely remove $20 in _desired_ features to sway you away from the low margin boards. That way they can advertise "We have affordable boards" while leaving out "but we made sure you won't actually want it." CAMM2 tracing is _cheaper_ than 4xDDR5 slots, but trust me, they'll pay _more_ to make sure you don't have what's desirable without paying extra for it. Everyone thinks GPUs have ridiculous margins but they're actually one of the _lowest_ margin items in your system compared to the mobo, cooling, PSU, and peripherals. Several companies have openly stated that much. TLDR: don't hold your breath.

It'll be expensive until economies of scale kick in

That and if Intel/Amd fixes their memory controller.

@@impuls60 AMD actually has pretty good IMC but their chiplet design is what's holding them back. Look at their monolithic APUs, they can go very high with memory speeds.

The other is if you can get stable higher speed ram also. Performance will drive demand driving down costs.

@@Forlong21 Yap.. I just hope to see the cas latency finally go back down. I want the same latency as ddr3 or ddr4 ram with ddr5 bandwidth.

The issue the performance of CAMM2 allows for much higher speeds. So desktops will want it, especially given that CAMMs can benefit from bigger and more robust cooling options. We'll see what the future holds.

P.S. The variable mask around you and your physical background make it look like you have long, flowing locks blowing in the wind. You need to headbang with Steve of Gamers Nexus... for shits and giggles... windmill to the sound of the loudest consumer fans you've both ever heard.

With the modules we've seen, yeah, doesn't seem space-efficient. But maybe the plan is to use the shorter card with its better connections and put something more dense than regular DDR5 packages on it.

It looks like most of the boards support the larger CXXX dual channel modules from what I have seek from afar.

clus will too msi claimed about 30% lower latency which is huge

Except with APUs having it on package like Lunar Lake is doing will be far more beneficial. This is my concern with Strix Halo. 40CUs will be choked hard in random games if they have to rely on system memory, regardless if it's DDR5 or CAMM2DDR5. No matter how close it's physically impossible to be closer than surrounding the die as GPUs currently do it.

@@zodwraith5745 Gpus dont use on package memory unless its hbm genius

@@zodwraith5745 Current camm2 capability is around 8500mt/s. micron on next year already planning on releasing 9600 mt/s camm2. even more with years to come. so unless integrated ram is blowing through 10k mt/s, i don't see why not. there's certainly demand for it

@@zodwraith5745 oh and it also has 256bit bus, so no worry of choking there

What

That's me. JEDEC requires the copyright statement but I thought I'd spice it up with some comic sans. You can also find papyrus too. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/oLyYn61_r9XUf4U.html

Someone on ebay will want your 32GB module when you upgrade it to something else.

I mean, if you REALLY that concern with OCing your RAM, you don't want to stick any other than same exact 2 stick of DIMM anyway. So just combined it to single CAMM2 and everything is just as the same. Beyond that, they still sells DIMM motherboard if you don't care about that shit

Ryzen ai does not have on package memory. Only Lunar Lake.

Yes. And even I can't tell if he's serious about it or not :P -Adam

​@@pcworld if his goal was to grab my attention, he certainly was successful. Retinal transplant aside, I don't think I will ever get shamed with an "akshully it's called LPDDR5 CAMM2"

@@SandyWhitmore kzfaq.info/get/bejne/oLyYn61_r9XUf4U.html

Signal Integrity.

Two of those might fit in an OAM(OCP accelerator module) under the heat spreader between the screws, along with the CPU's VRM parts...

Nobody's ever doing that.

31:55 Sound possible, but Nvidia and AMD will never do that.

They already on (G)DDR7 now If you forget

The engineers, can use any font they want to

It's a joke about Papyrus...

💀💀

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