the only thing I have absolute certainty about is that this is a great video :p

Every time I try to think of a pun for the Gods, it almost not Freyr how strange they are. I guess I could make a joke that’s more Loki but that would be pretty Frigg-in stupid. I could Hodr along and try to make a better joke but as they say, the Thor the merrier.

This isn’t video related but thanks to your confidence and assurance it gave me the confidence and courage to enter in a fierce debate with a group of Christians disrespecting our gods. I’m proud a follower of the gods but I’ve always avoided debates, due to fear. But tonight I took a stand, and I won. I shut down their disrespect of gods and pointed out how they contradicted themselves to put my rebuttals into Christian light. I’ve never felt more proud in my life, and you are apart of the reason I found courage. So I writing as a thank you. Thank you for helping me find my courage

As a pagan who is BOTH a former Catholic and a former atheist, this was a really interesting and well thought out video. I definitely feel like people try to be too "black and white" in these conversations. There can be so many subtle shades of gray that often get missed.

The first time I ever tried to contact the gods in any capacity was when I was trying to talk to Vör for guidance. I was completely ignorant of heathen practices and I used a meditation where I was supposed to envision a garden space where I could talk to her. The entire thing felt forced, but at the end I do think I had a breakthrough because I was hit with a message so clearly that I can’t attribute it to anything else. You wanna know what she said? “This garden is bullshit.” And I have taken that with me as a lesson. It was everything I needed to hear.

And here I deadass thought that this was going to be a video of Ocean just tripping balls on DMT

I was also Christian, until I started to notice and take into account how my experiences were absent with the Christian god. So I went exploring. I got DEEP into mythologies and different cultures around the world, till one stuck with me and felt the most correct (which was Norse heathenism). My beliefs come from the experiences I had and continue to have with the gods, as I have always treated them with respect and love. Which in turn, they repay me with kindness as well; like family. I would even say that I attribute a lot of my happiness, success, and willingness to grow, to them. No matter what belief someone might have; I hope they find that same, or similar peace with themselves and the world around them. Much love

I have found if I treat the Gods as real divine beings, I get responses .....it works for me so I roll with it

Belief is like attempting a jigsaw when someone has stolen a piece and says they will return it when the puzzle is finished. You can't finish the puzzle until you have it and if you manage to finish the puzzle you don't need that piece anymore.

This video is fire young man

As someone who does theoretical science, hardcore empiricism frustrates the ever living hell out of me. So many people don't seem to understand that science deals in *models* of reality, not Truth. Great video, Ocean!

One thing I often struggle with is determining what interpretations are right. If you have an indeterminate divine experience how do you know if it's from a monotheistic god, a polytheistic god, or if the experience itself was anything more than a misperception? This is the only thing that seems to keep me from belief in deities. I've had experiences I aould call religious, but they could have been one of many things.

This definitely speaks to my post-Catholic experience. I decided that if we can't know which deity is the "right" one, why play the guessing game? I've been in limbo (agnosticism, I guess?), for the last 22 years as a result. I still think there may be a higher power, but the whole thing overwhelms my ADHD-addled brain. Christianity is a no-go, and having lived through its lens for so long makes looking outside quite difficult. This is one of the biggest reasons I appreciate your viewpoints, Ocean. They give me hope that perhaps I'll find a new home someday. I really want to, but the fog is thick (and Leon's getting larger!).

The first thing I had to accept as I started moving away from Christianity and into polytheism was that regardless of where I ended up absolute proof did not exist, so the best I could do was find something that was real to me through experience and was something I wanted to participate in and go from there. The Christian god is real to me even now because of the experiences I had, but so are other gods. Christianity has hurt me in ways that polytheist spaces have not, and so I'm still debating whether or not Christianity or their god will be a part of my practice. One of the best things polytheism ever taught me is that I can believe in a god and still choose not to worship them or engage with them.

13:08 thank you for mentioning this. Almost EVERYONE I run into in the online occult world would rather believe in pseudoscience then admit that science can be correct. There’s a massive massive dislike if not hatred towards science. It’s ridiculous.

I really enjoyed this video. This is something that I have thought about quite often. I came to the conclusion that, no, I cannot scientifically prove that the gods exist, but I choose to believe in them based upon experiences I have had. Others who have had different experiences may come to different conclusions. I have noticed that many atheists want to have absolute hard scientific proof and I just don't think that spirituality works like that. Great video!

To quote Einar Selvik from Wardruna "the gods are representatives of various aspects of both humans and nature" *drop mic*

I am the wisest man alive, for I know one thing, and that is that I know nothing. Socrates But, I do “believe” that I “know” some things, yet those may be disproven or disputed at any time. Good video!

I really like this video since this is the question I struggle the most with and I've convinced myself before that either I don't exist or I'm the only thing that exists..... but I've learned to not think about that part too much so we good

This made me think of the time I believed I had to make a connection with the gods in order to believe in them, or really BE a spiritual person. I still can’t say if I’ve ever received a “sign” from the gods or have felt their presence. As awesome as that would be, I’ve realized that’s not the most important part of my spiritual journey.

It's really interesting watching your discussion as an atheist, and agreeing with a lot of what you're saying. I'm a fan of the notion of "practicality" when it comes to belief and knowledge: if it seems to be true now, and I can use it to make predictions about the future, then I should assume it is true; doing otherwise is impractical. I think this ties into what you said at the end about "exploring ideas" and solipsism. I can recognize that I do not know for certain anything except that I exist in some fashion, but proceed with my life and my observation of the world as if everything that *appears* to exist, *does.* It's more interesting that way anyways. As for your earlier comments... I think there is an important point to be made that I don't think you touched on (unless I missed it). The Bible, and other texts/records from history like it, are good things to examine from a historical perspective. They are, after all, talking about *history,* and trying to use scientific methods to examine history is... just not applicable (like, imagine trying to use the scientific method to figure out specific details of what happened during the American Civil War! You'd reach the "experimentation" phase and realize that you've nothing to experiment with). However, many of these books do make scientific *claims.* By way of an example, the Bible claims that God turned Lot's wife into a pillar of salt. The discussion of whether or not this, or a similar event, actually *happened* is a historical thing, and would involve cross-referencing other resources to see if we could determine one way or the other if anything even vaguely resembling this event likely took place. The question of whether or not it is even possible for a human to *be* spontaneously turned into a pillar of salt, however, is a scientific one. And is a rather extraordinary claim, too; taking our bodies, mostly composed of carbon, hydrogen, and oxygen, and rapidly transforming those elements into mostly sodium and chloride, would be a process that had never been seen before! At least, not at a time where we could actually make detailed and easily verifiable recordings of the phenomenon. Thus, the *historical* examination of the event is colored by the *scientific* observation that such an event seems *highly* unlikely; as historical examinations try to find out what event *most likely* took place, the historian must then mark that event as improbable, and find more historical evidence than usual before proposing it as historical fact. I dunno, it seemed worth pointing out. Seriously though, it was really gratifying to hear someone talk about how they look at the world in a way similar to my own... you just have seen/do see patterns that indicate to you that deities exist, and I never have. Thus, one of us lives assuming that they do, and the other assuming that they do not. I do kind of wonder if I would have come to the same conclusions as you had I experienced what you had, differing perspectives and all. WOW that was long. And I doubt almost anybody will see it (I dunno how many of your comments you actually read LOL) but it was nice to get out at least o3o (to add a tl;dr: it's cool to see another person who looks at "when should we act as though things exist" in a very similar way to myself, and sometimes historical documents make extraordinary scientific claims, and when they do that colors how historically accurate we may consider them because historians look for what events seem *most* likely to have happened)

I love learning about the gods!! It's like there is always something new to learn !!

I am an ex Muslim atheist who studied biology. How many stereotypes do I cross off? Yes I've experienced a little bit of the frustration early on in my spiritual exploration to find difficulties in communicating with those who believe differently than I. I've no come to appreciate and even love religions of different kinds as well as other spiritual disciplines for what they may offer especially in the idea that others believing differently than I do can offer such Rich Variety in perspective on the world. I no longer think it it's sad that others think differently than I.

Only two minutes in, I just want to note that I'm an epistemic anti-realist or philosophical agnostic. I don't think truth exists or if it does humans don't have access to it. This has been a big step towards me respecting other perspectives and also to my personal happiness because trying to find truth is exhausting in the same way that trying constantly to stick your tongue to the back of your head would be.

Ocean talking philosophy makes me wish he would do a speaking tour.

I'm at the part of the video where you describe how we know things. I really like this open. I'm someone who wants to believe in gods but I'm deeply agnostic. I have had experiences that keep me going with my practice to one extent or another, but I also find myself doubting the meaning of those experiences enough that I hesitate to call myself a believer. I wouldn't call myself an atheopagan, but I don't think I fall strictly into the theistic camp either. That being said even with my half-faith I feel a deep connection to the gods even if I don't have the confidence to say I believe in the gods. Its an odd feeling.

I was having a bit of Christian leftover anxiety over my lack of being able to, like, scientifically verify the god’s’ existence. Thank you very much for this video; it helped me realize how much of my anxiety is just hanging on from my previous religion and that I really don’t need to worry about it in that way. Questioning things is actually ok now! :)

For me the cementing experience with the Gods is the very real and very shared experience among us of spiritual exhaustion after interacting with them. Intense sobbing (joyful), shaking, exhaustion, exuberant euphoria all wrapped up in one. An more importantly, is discovering it first on my own then talking about it and finding many others have experienced the same with different deities, thought I do recommend Freyja. ;)

*Re: Solipsism* I took a Philosophy class about a month or two ago now, and your section on solipsism called to mind reading Descartes' Meditations. I could never roll with the idea that imperfect senses required their dismissal as a whole. That seems to be an extreme measure, in my mind. I think the more reasonable assumption is that of damage or poor conditions causing these issues, rather than a malevolent force/demon deceiving a person by providing these senses. Also, I think the idea of two solipsists conversing is just bloody hilarious. It would seem to me that, eventually, they would both come to think the other is _sus._ It sounds like the ultimate form of egotism to only recognize oneself as "real."

The old adage “you don’t know what you don’t know” feels appropriate. This is a reach, but I realized fairly recently that I can stop overreacting to certain things with my son (who is now 12) because he simply doesn’t carry the same baggage and associations (and subsequent reactions to) that I do around said thing; UNLESS I GIVE IT TO HIM! 🤣 And thus I had a mind blown moment of “we teach what we pass on.”

Is it just me or is your beard looking extra omnipotent today?

really digging this redux

I cant be certain but i think this was another gem.

This one ought to be good. May Odin and Dionysos inspire you!

Philosophical Taoism revealed to me the curious strength that comes with holding one open to possibility; the world of the Mystic. Holding reverence for life and awe towards it mysteries, this is the balance beam I walk. Patterns revel themselves over time; these patterns people name as Gods. I have learned to recognize, but not cling, to these energetic tapestries. It is only one Way.

This was such a great listen and helped me clarify some things I don't always know how to put into words regarding my own slow transition from being a hardcore atheist edgelord to actually believing in some ancient gods even if just a little bit nowadays. With that said I still believe the best thing for society is for church and state to remain strictly separate and for us to try and base our policies on science first because it's the closest thing we currently have to 'objectivity', but for our personal lives I really like this approach of spiritual belief as something to explore and grow with, without that requiring us to dogmatically 'believe' the same way Christians would. Instead you can explore and experiment and 'believe' at the same time. Which is basically what I have done with the polytheist faiths, and rather than what the Christians would say about that somehow being a sign of 'weakness' for polytheism I actually view it as not only a huge strength, but just something that is healthier for followers in general. That you're free to explore before making this huge commitment, and free to leave if it turns out to not be compatible in the end, and that you're allowed to be comfortable with the inescapable greyness that comes with existence, and still be empowered to do your best with it all anyway. As for me I also came to convene with the Gods more often when I had unlikely personal experiences with them that made me want to get to know them better and make them a part of my life more. I don't want to convert anyone just based on that. I view at as personal to me and if anyone is curious I'll talk to them but that is it. Since coming to the realizations I have though I always viewed it more as something I'm exploring and building a relationship with the same way I would a new friend and it's hard to get that nuance across to people raised in a culture where they are taught that nuance and uncertainty are mutually exclusive with friendship, belief, or strength! And that is what I love about polytheism so much is that there IS room for that nuance in our spiritual practice!

A little off topic but I think you might enjoy reading 'the broken empire trilogy' starting with 'prince of thorns' and the following trilogy 'red queen's war' starting wit 'Prince of fools'. Second trilogy is my absolute favourite. Themes of possibility and a cracked reality.

Absolutely loved this topic. Thank you so much for taking the time. I find so many other videos on mono/a/polytheism to feel, as you said, dogmatic. They prop up things using holy scripture as all the proof they need, they prop up things using hard science and logic like a cudgel, the prop up things with the fluffiest of bunnies and mind-numbing leaps in their thinking. I had never realized it before, but I do believe it is due to something latent they are carrying around. When I dropped out of my very loose and casual hold of Christianity and felt the pulling of the gods, part of the reason I gravitated toward the Norse pantheon was the fact that so little remains of "official knowledge" and much of what we have to pull from has been whitewashed heavily by Christianity that I would pretty much be FORCED to blaze my own trail to get to know these deities. In doing so, I would have to be honest with myself. I would have to know that I don't REALLy know, and that not knowing is OK. The gods get along just fine without me. They don't need me to sing praises to exist. I hope they dig my cat purr of fancy libations poured in their honor as I clumsily fumble my way through what might pass as a prayer and know that I'm doing my damnedest to show that I am earnestly reaching out to make a connection. Not "knowing" is the most refreshing aspect of my spiritual journey. I've never felt so unburdened in my life. Thanks again for such an insightful and useful video. It really helps fresh Heathens like myself to navigate this brave new...er, old world.

The gods communicate with us through coincidence and once we start to notice these convenient circumstances (small miracles) the existence of the gods, and thier intervention is undeniable.

I do have to agree with the take on 'certainty'. So often in debates do I see a demand not only for showing a position is likely the case but that it is certainly the case. I just don't get why so many people seem to have a different epistemological standard when it comes to different topics or methods of discussion/debate. I mean, having a stricter standard when trying to find out what is certainly the case (like in science, court trials, etc.) is helpful for those particular goals, but in daily life this standard is usually only brought up on a certain subset of topics that usually there is some level of emotional investment in (like the god(s) debate).

The more I hear, the more I learn! Thank you for being out here for us newbies to Heathanry.

Excellent video, thank you!

I love how acting with knowledge is “putting the cart before the horse”. If this is your philosophy you’re deluding yourself. Everyone acts on knowledge. Beliefs come from knowledge. The idea of gods making lightning came after humans gained the knowledge through sight that lightning occurred.

Great video!

I hope to see more about this. I'd love to see a open debate about the subject matter!

still one of the greatest philosophical bangers on the entire platform

This was great. Finally took the plunge and became a member.

Fantastic video. Necessary viewing for anyone engaging in discussions about spirituality.

Thank you for the thorough, thought raising videos. Always nice to see different philosophies covered, and logical fallacies.

I love your content, because it is leaning into an academic monologue dicussion. Love it

Ocean, this is a great video! You have given this atheist more to think about and I'm very grateful 😊

I'm so glad to see more philosophical content! You always make it so easy to understand. And such good timing too! The rest of my family is catholic, though most of my siblings have started to fall away too. One sister has started to question the catholic faith, but her searching has brought her to orthodoxy. (She's stuck on the idea of "ultimate Truth with a capital T") She's open to debates and new ideas, but I'm terrible at turning my thoughts into words. But your videos help me get my brain into the right direction, so it's much appreciated!

The exploration is what I love most about my religion.

Really enjoyed this video!! Love the clips and that school of thought is on my list of things to read about so it is nice to see that mentioned in this video lol

Well done. I have faith that this will reach folks in a positive way.

Love a bit of philosophy with breakfast you rock ❤

Loved this video and the explanations you gave. Getting into solipsism was always one of my favorites in college, mainly because I could say it was possible that we were all sims who could play the sims haha.

Ocean, your content has been helping me in so many ways lately. I've been questioning my atheism for a long time and it's nice to see that leaning in and exploring is a good thing. (Also, your puns give me life.)

I love the chapter breaks. This is the first time I've seen it. thanks for doing that. It makes the content easier to consume and share

Missed the live stream because of a late grocery trip, but I'll just say that it's good to see more exposition on polytheistic agnosticism.

beautifully done sir

I feel like this puts into words the mindset I've adopted while diving into my spirituality. It's very freeing to just simply go with the flow even if we don't really know.

i may still be figuring myself out and where i stand with all this but allowing the thought that such beings could exist into my mind has felt right so far. i may not be a follower of them but there's just something nice that i can't quite put into words about the idea of sharing this world with them. the particular entities i'm finding myself believing more and more in i find myself thinking of more often lately and it's comforting. i like working with them like this, i'm glad i'm trying it finally

dude your videos are so good!

So glad I watched this again.

Great video Ocean!

Thank you for this video! It addresses so much of what I've struggled with both when I was a Christian, and now as an atheist. This is super helpful!

Loved the "sus" clip. It was truly beautiful.

Thank you for creating this video and explaining the argument in this way, I had not thought of it from this perspective before, as I've always taken science to be fact and based belief around this. Understanding this argument had led me to feel comfortable in my decision of being a Heathen, as I struggled before going back and forth between science and belief. Thank you for this video and for the conversation and point you made.

Good vid again ocean

Thank you for the section on fluffy bunnies, that's something that kept me away from paganism for a long time

Honestly one of the most refreshing videos I've seen on KZfaq ever. Thank you for giving voice to these things. I myself am a philosophically minded heathen. Takk Bror.

Hey man - one of your unicorn Catholic viewers here as I've mentioned before. Love the shit out of this video and the discussion of epistemology. Really enjoying seeing my own perspectives reflected in other faiths.

Great video, interesting topic. So In the end ocean believes his experiences because that’s really all anyone has to work with. Their personal experiences.

What a fantastic video…

Your content is very healing for my deconverted christian self, thank you for your work.

Thank you for guiding me to this video from my reddit post

As an atheist stuff like this is so interesting to listen about.

This video gave me a great laugh, very entertaining 😄 I find it fascinating that I'm sometimes very skeptical skeptical of my own experiences and UPG, even though those experiences have led me to believe in the gods. I feel like I can never really know they exist, but I believe regardless. And I suppose I'm fine with that. Thanks for another great video ocean!

Now I'm off to scroll through your videos to see what you have to say about those experiences which lead you to believe there are gods... would love to know more about what they were!

As someone questioning their beliefs, this video was a large comfort to me. I completely feel the "dogmatic pressure". I want to explore and experiement- currently I still believe the Abrahamic God is the center of everything, but I am starting to believe that other gods and spirits are manifestations of that source, and we are all parts of that source, and praise of other gods is a praise of that personality and aspect of the source. and yet, I feel an intense pressure to be right, to not be straying from what's "correct". and it's a great comfort to recognize that not only is that not realistic, but it is okay to branch into ideas based on your experiences. it's a hard road to travel, though

Thank you Ocean, as my current experience aligns with non belief it is the view I currently hold but I can see the wisdom that everyone is having to explore and make judgement calls on the fly. Any one side or group thinking they have an unquestionable Truth has become a red flag for me since leaving christianity and can see where bits of that thinking kind of take up space in the back of atheists, pagans, and others who have continued exploring outside of their previous beliefs. The last thought I had after watching was I expect this kind of feeling may be an intentional process built into some beliefs to try and make it harder for someone to want to explore in the fear that they would leave their original beliefs. I hope through your talks and others more and more of us can see our way to honest exploration.

I've always viewed science as the study of the natural world and arcana as the study of the supernatural world, two sides of the same coin. If humans are ever to improve, I believe it is key to understand both the material and spiritual worlds. Great video btw

Those aren't puns, they're dad jokes.

I *love* and so appreciate the sus and among us references. (And, as always, the discussion topic and thoughts.) 😄

The last part of this awesome video explains almost exactly the thought that brought me on my heathen path.

Love your videos. Keep up the great work.

Well said. In agreement with much of this.

This was great XD

Great video. Loved the philosophy discussion. I was a Christian because of my parents, but they weren't very dedicated to their religion. I made some great questions and ended up in atheism. I wasn't aware that there was another option, until I met my girlfriend (now my wife) that called herself a witch. I started studying it, ended up in witchcraft and we finally arrived today, in what I'm pretty unsure to classify as "Kemetic neo-pagan", because I mix reconstructionism and eclectic practices. One of the best things in polytheism, for me, is that we don't NEED all the answers. From my personal experience: Christians are obsessed to get their answers from one source, atheists are obsessed to disprove everyone's faith and I... I'm just happy to live today, furthering my life, my practices, my faith and building it as every day passes by. This video quite represents my personal experience and it's great to see more people experience it in similar ways.

I struggle with this. I often feel a pull that sometimes I attribute to the gods, but I quickly become skeptical, and then I just stop practicing. Then a few months later I come back. It's rough! But this video is helpful!

This right here is why I'm subbed :) I'm not a pagan, more of a pantheist, but like many people I see online today I came from dogmatic evangelical Christianity and journeyed through atheism and back to spirituality. It's so refreshing on the other side to believe that as a long as what you are doing isn't hurting anyone you can believe and practice whatever you want. It doesn't matter if you can prove it or not. It only matters that it fulfills you and hopefully puts some good in the world and makes you a better person.

After a long and hot summer, I once presented an offering to Thor on the first rain. I stated the one intention I wanted from the offering: to show by some means that the gods exist. I made homemade bread, poured some vodka, and made a sort of alter by a tree. I now have that area designated to at-home offerings. On this day, I also lit 2 candles and an inscent and presented my offerings. I almost felt the present of Thor whom I set out to thank and question. I said some words and asked in this way “I present these offering for one reason, I would like you to show that you exist”. I’ve done this with the Christian god and some other religions to no avail. Here however it started to lightly sprinkle and the wind picked up for several seconds. I asked 3 or 4 times and every time on request, the wind picked up and a sprinkle started. This was the first time by request that a god had ever been willing to present proof of their existance to me, and allowed me to turn from verging atheist to Norse paganism. This was the thing that drew me from not believing in god(s) to believing after trial in the only gods I ever got a response to. It was one of the best experiences, and my first time attempting and offering. This started my journey into Norse paganism which I try to learn more about periodically. Your channel and even KZfaqrs like the wisdom of Odin(which I saw your video on and do see your point. He still helped me get started though) helped me to go upon the new journey I find myself in. Keep up the good work, this channel is extremely useful and still entertaining and helps me learn more and more deeply the new faith I find myself in.

hey man, I love your videos! they've been a huge help since I started my pagan journey over a year ago. I was just curious whether you would ever be down to do a video on modern-day pagan gatherings and how people can be a part of them?

Love the pun!

I always enjoyed seeking knowledge and the thought of uncertainty fascinates me.

I've rewatched this video 3 times I think? ... And the opening pun makes me lmao every time (I'm agnostic so)

Really loved the video, very interesting (and funny). New reading subject unlocked!

Thanks for sharing that. I will have to chew on it for a bit.

Many years ago, I followed Asatru. I suppose I had bad experiences in the Asatru community, i.e., folkism, abuse of women, hard right politics, a sense of general anger and even hatred against the world, etc. I just continued on my way, away from that kind of stuff. But I have always remained interested in the core ideas of the old ways. Recently, I happened across this channel quite by accident, or so it would seem, and I am very glad to have done so. You have a most enlightened attitude and approach to this knowledge base. Thank you for sharing with a pagan who has been around the block more than a few times in this life ;-)