Thank you for the support and glad you are liking them!

I agree with you.

Even balanced it would be super easy - the focus falloff you get with the LF sensor is very distinctive

@@GriffinConway Come on :) Alexa is obviously cleaner and not so soapy. Thank you for this work, very helpful!

I don't know what color profile he used on canon, but i know for sure clog2 might have the best dynamic range but it doesn't have the best colors where you can actually say, canon colors. I don't know which log has a better colors if clog1 or clog3, but I'm sure it's one of those or you can use traditional neutral/standard color profile, which is actually known for the canon color science.

It would still be easy to see which is which

The Alexa and Cooke combo is often used on HBO projects. We used that combo on a series pilot shot in NYC. :)

I’ve used that combo multiple times and love it

Awesome! Glad you are loving it!

For sure RF mount is great

Well, 2 years later and canon finally got a FF RF true cinema camera. The R5c is truly an epic camera for many reasons, it also has a lot of little things that really hold it back. Then again, it’s a hybrid camera at heart, not a dedicated Cinema camera. For what it does do, it’s damn impressive. The C400 sure seems like a really solid camera. The only thing not mentioned and I think would’ve been an added strong feature would be 32-bit float for the audio inputs.

Ya it was way different for sure

Awesome!

It’s a great camera for sure

Both are great and I bought both of them with my own money. Different tools for different jobs. Image quality is similar and the c70 has a few more features. Here’s my full thoughts: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/kLGmnJaglZq0lI0.html

Duuuuuude never say never!

This is how I feel when I watch all of your awesome film camera videos 😄 if you’re ever in Orange County we should meet up and shoot

He probably didn’t have a adapter available. The GL Optics Leica R is likely PL and the Canon 24L being likely EF. The Canons L’s are pretty sharp, but I get what you’re saying, having 2 different glass don’t really work when comparing.

I had an adapter but the problem would be I couldn’t use the speed booster on the c70 with the PL mount GL Optics, so the field of view would be way different.

Thanks my bro!

Hey Kamal! Thanks bro. This one I used canon L glass on the c70 and Leica r lenses on the mini LF. I meant to show how they look different basically, instead of trying to make them look the same

Definitely! In the same boat as you

It does not.

The c70 doesn’t have IR pollution. It’s just the canon colors leaning more magenta with the stock luts. If you check the part where I reveal which camera is which you can see that with my GC lut it doesn’t look so magenta

Yeah, the FX6 has that expensive look... It would be super hard to see the difference between Alexa and FX6 with graded footage and using the same lens. There would even be a significant edge to the FX6 in low light.

The c70 Vs fx3 video on my channel shows the image quality difference between the two cameras. But ya I’m looking forward to that one too

Watching squid games right now and it definitely has that sharp and saturated colors characteristic of reds. 9:16 on c70 is actually great though

It’s just the lut that was used. The canon luts are super magenta

My next video is my thoughts on the r3

Thanks for the support. A7 iii and R5 / R6 combo is still great. Keep it up!

C70 / R6 combo for weddings would be killer

Completely wrong. It's way more useful to present shots that are *UNTOUCHED* to be able to tell what camera/sensor is producing which kind of image rather than slapping on some "grading/CC" (which is hiiiiiiiighly subjective and can completely alter the differences in the sensors). I mean you could ask Conway if he could think about sharing/uploading the recorded material seperately so you could try to invest your time to match up the clips to get answers to your thoughts. The under- and overexposures are extremely helpful in figuring out the capabilities of a sensor. Of course nobody would deliver like that but it's good to know how far you could theoretically go if you use the showcased camera/sensor in extreme situations in your own workflow. Especially if you rent them. Sometimes prep-day isn't enough time to figure stuff like this out. You are way too busy testing dozens of other important things regarding the project.

@@AtillaLifeson problem is you can't tell how far you can go since you wouldn't deliver images like that. Unless you match the footage and normalize exposure you are just trying to judge noise that's hidden in a very compressed part of the response curve. Perception of noise and detail in general is highly dependent on contrast and so it's very difficult to see anything hidden in dark shadows unless you push it up, which is what you'd probably be doing if you were actually exposing like that anyway since it's rare you'd deliver images that are so dark you can't discern any detail and hides any noise in that detail. Also "untouched" is meaningless when comparing 2 different cameras since the curves are always touched by the arbitrary log curve and the arbitrary rec709 look that specific to the manufacturer or whatever transform you're looking at by default. Any differences you see are just a difference in log or default look, both things that are normalized away with a click of a button in post, so they are generally not that meaningful to compare unless you are specifically comparing one manufacturers' default curve to another's which are often designed not with that particular camera in mind but several of the manufacturer's previous cameras.

Oh truee, 🤯 could you pin that test note Griffin?😊 just so others know that sooner…I can imagine people assuming you didn’t WB the ‘correctly’

Hey Grif, one time can you do a comparisson that will shock ppl, arri Master Primes vs some L lenses and show people why cinematographers care more about glass than cameras. that would be dope.

I guessed Alexa rights away with its slightly green but pleasing colors. Also it did a way better job when underexposed

Just that lens alone makes a pretty big difference, that actually might have contributed a lot to the difference in image. That Leica in particular is like a Cooke prime or something of that tier

We’ll I think I only really need one kidney…..

The 6k pro is such a great camera I love mine

Hit me up on IG if you want to come out. We’ll try to make it happen

Thanks so much for watching Chris!

That’s a camera package you hire and bill to clients. Alexa LF + set of primes + lighting + audio + accessories etc …..

Ya it’s way different for sure especially with different lenses and not color matched

Yep I hate that. It’s got better over time on mine though

@@GriffinConway That's good to know. So just got to work it in.

Even on a phone with YT compression I could tell the difference. I didn’t think it would be so different, but it’s there and you can tell.

@@damiendehorn6350 my eyes are definitely not as good as yours!

@@AlpacoFilms Don't know about that, but definitely visible on a iphone 12 pro screen.

@@damiendehorn6350 well, I have a older Xr. And I also have it set to night mode when I watched it. The only thing I was able to see was the composition and the out of focus area that were different. But, also my eyes are really just not very great!

Thanks for the support and for watching!

Haha love the bronco

I use Sandisk uhs-ii v90 cards in 128gb size and have shot tons of 120p without issue

I imagine that's down to the ND filters used.

They seemed way off

That's ARRI's color science and Canon's magenta cast for you

I wonder how the DR between the two compare?

@@wcsdiaries Alexa would be better in highlights and shadows

That latitude is one of many benefits you get in the more expensive camera. As expensive as the Alexa is, it only a small fraction of the multi-million dollar budget of the films it can be used to create. These filmmakers can't afford to to have cameras that malfunctions.

They are both great cameras for sure, and as Krane mentioned they are for different groups of people.

Thank you! It was by Utah (I think the song was called seeds). Musicbed.con

@@GriffinConway appreciate that bro! Blessings.

I agree with you. My goal for this test was to show two cameras that I was actually using side by side for an actual commercial set. We needed one shot in 120p and wanted to see if we could make it close enough to the mini lf so that’s why we shot it the way we did

Haha thanks Flo! I think I will incorporate it in to a video soon 😄 maybe a car rigging video or something like that, but I love it too. So much fun.

For sure! Middle of the pack cinema cameras are so good now. I wish I could have tested more but we were so busy that day. Hopefully in the future though!

I so agree, they are getting much closer in terms of DR and a full rich image. You don't seen blown highlights nearly as much as you used to, or anything that gives away what it is as often. I find myself searching "what was X shot on" all the time ; ). After watching Dark I was floored with what the Arri could do.

Ya the magenta tint was a giveaway for sure

Ronin s

That’s true! Thanks for watching

Nothing is going to save the C70 from an Alexa beating. Glass doesn't make that much of a difference

@@dna8269 glass actually makes all the difference.

Glass makes a different, but its not nearly as significant as focal length.

Same glass on the camera is a good test as well and will definitely make them look more similar, but that wasn’t my goal. I wanted to put two cameras side by side, not color matched, and with glass that they would typically be run with

@@dna8269 what a noob thing to say. Glass makes all the difference, that's a known fact amongst experienced filmmakers.

This is what happens when people show the actual results and don’t try to make them look the same for KZfaq haha

Leica R is an old stills lens, rehoused by GL Optics in this case. It's vintage, but still much better than a modern Canon lens. The color difference you can spot here is mostly due to the FSND filtration used in Alexa - thus less infrared pollution in the image overall. Canon has good IR cut (see Hurlbut comparison between Red MX and Canon C-series), but it does seem in C70 it's not a full-spectrum filtration, or just the color science of Canon. C70 is a remarkably good all-rounder, wish it had SDI though.

@@alexlubensky Genuine question: what specifically about the Leica R makes it much better than a modern Canon lens? Comparing them on the same camera seems to be very minimal differences (Matteo Bertoli's 18-35 vs Leica R test for example), at least to my eye. Could you please elaborate more?

@@dna8269 Canon L's degrade over time of use due to various plastic elements inside, especially under heavy use. It varies from lens to lens, and vastly depends on the screen size you aim to shoot for. Round lenses can look really similar on smaller screens, but even on a big TV you'll see lots of stuff happening regarding out of focus rendition, overall contrast, flaring, sharpness, color rendition and so on. Also, R series has a rather long time-span regarding production, so the coatings can be rather different from lens to lens. Basically R's are a proper manual lens design by german manufacturer, while L's are built for AF and mass-market, just a different aim and a market. It's much easier to compare R's to FD's than to L's. Each lens out there has a space for it, I'd say they are just different. I would prefer R's to L's any day, because of the R's character and overall look. In modern world I'd say there's no "best" lens, but the one that ticks all the boxes for you.

The biggest difference between the cameras in terms of image quality (excluding the obvious color difference) is the highlight retention in the mini LF and also the sensor size. It was definitely a short test but maybe I’ll do more in the future

@@dna8269 to ad what A L said below, the Leica do a lovely flare to them and you'll see it used often in travel and cooking shows, like Chef's table.

Haha I thought they both did pretty well but ya the Alexa is special

Thank you!

Nice! What gave it away for you?

@@GriffinConway the color lol

How do you like the S1H compared to Varicam when it comes to motion and caddice? A lot of these newer cameras have plenty of dynamic range but Canon and Sony (minus the Venice) really struggle with motion and colors. For commercial work they are good, but not narrative as much. I have been looking at a S1H to B cam with a LF, but I have never tried one. True filmic quality at all with motion and highlight rolloff? Cheers my friend!

Mini lf is my favorite image out of any camera

🙌🙌

It was very easy to see tho. Huge magenta cast on the Canon

Ya the Alexa is special for sure and just looks like what we are used to seeing in movies

I wonder

Check out the part where I reveal which camera is which and then show my GC lit on the c70. It doesn’t look as magenta. The c70 doesn’t have IR pollution

Glad you are liking the c70! It’s such a great camera

Same!

Haha thank you

I will try to do this one next time I have the camera

Haha for sure

But I own the c70 not the Alexa 😂

@@GriffinConway Doesn't change the facts. More time spent on valid comparison samples, accounting for crop factor and white balance could have helped a little :)

Ya I agree. It was already a pretty unfair comparison so I figured I would just show it how many people will use it (just with canon L glass)

Haha true

Cinema cameras with bigger bodies have better heat management and support larger batteries than mirrorless cams, and they also don't need an external recorder for RAW like lots of mirrorless cams still do. If you need to shoot for hours at a time, having an A-cam at least that isn't going to overheat or chew threw 20 batteries is worth the extra bulk. I would never giver up my C100 for a mirrorless with 10x better image but without all the ergonomic benefits of the bigger body.

@@seangentry2943 That makes a lot of sense, the point I wanted to make in my post is that with the new, faster, high density stacked image sensors, and with IBIS, I expect to see a lot of new Cinema models soon, based on the technologies now in the newer mirrorless designs. And my understanding is that not all current Cinema will run all day on one small battery, that does not seem to be the case. So I wonder given a very good hand held cinema camera like the FX6, or FX3 full frame sensor, light, small, good ventilation, will Sony wait three years to update those relatively new models with a higher density stacked sensor and will they introduce IBIS and advanced AF to that platform? For Cannon, its really the same possibility, the EOS R3, how hard would it be for Canon to update the C70 with the R3 sensor, with advanced AF, vastly improved rolling shutter, etc.

@@leschwartz Well there are some reasons. Higher density sensors are nice until you look at the data rates you get by shooting in 6K, 8K, 10K, etc at high bitrates (or even RAW) for hours and hours a day. Canon and Sony have saved 6K for their bigger cameras like the C500 II and FX9, while the C70, C300 III and FX6 are all still 4K. Even the Alexa LF is "only" 4.5K but it's IMAX-certified and used on huge movies like Dune and Spider-man No Way Home. And Canon and Sony don't want to cannibalize sales of cameras that are still selling strong by releasing something way better a year later. The C70 will ship until they've gotten back their ROI cost on it and then some, because they are a business. Full frame doesn't *really* matter much either. Shallow depth of field and better lowlight, which super 35 cameras can do really well already, and if you really want it you can use a speedbooster on the C70. In a lot of situations you don't want super shallow DOF anyway so super 35 sensors will never truly be obsolete.

@@seangentry2943 All of these factors you mention are true and valid, but I still believe we are on the verge of a lot of camera hardware updates. I understand the problem of working with large data files in an edit, but there is the possibility of editing with a proxy file. And agreed the higher pixel sensors are not always the best performing low light sensors. But with 8K, or 6K. if you miss frame or need to do some re-composing in post, you can move the image, push in, and you still have decent resolution, that I am certain will same time and money on a lot of productions. Also these new sensors which are stacked with higher read rates are close to performing like a global shutter, which again will save a lot of action shoots. I believe the new mirrorless cameras are already taking sales away from the current line of cinema cameras, The Sony FX3 is basically a re-packaged A7SIII, the FX6 is using AF from the Alpha line, the mirrorless cameras can easily fill the role of a crash camera in action sequences, especially where size and weight are an issue. I have heard many times Arri's statement that the quality of the pixel and color management trumps high pixel count and poorer color management and poorer dynamic range. But the new technologies in mirrorless cameras I believe ae going to be irresistible even for the camera makers to use in their cinema lines. Sony's Venice II is an 8.6K sensor, dual base ISO, 16 stops of dynamic range, 50 megapixels. I do not see why other than convention Sony will not add AF and IBIS to Venice as they have added it to the FX3.

Ya it looks great for sure

Just goes to show style choice is personal! I think it depends on the project

I was wondering about BMPCC too. I'd love to see a comparison of BMPCC6K vs Alexa with the same glass since it's chosen by some as a B-cam to the Alexa on smaller productions

:04 I agree with you haha. I know it’s not a fair test, it’s not meant to be. It was meant just show the two cameras in a simple scene

Haha same if money wasn’t an issue

Thank you!

I’ll try to work it in to a video soon 😄

@@GriffinConway oh snap, is that yours now I’m completely jealous!

I love Bali! We visited about 2 years ago. I love the image of the Arri as well, but for sure out of my budget

Interesting

Makes no sense to use the same lut for completely different cameras. What he probably should have done is grade it manually

@@Aviciiz true, but alexa default luts work very well with clog2 footage

@@timwangyc I don't believe c70 has clog 2? I could be wrong though.

@@edpr2244 it does! ✌️✌️just no raw

@@edpr2244 it certainly does. I (pretty much) use nothing else

Unfortunately since I just do youtube as my hobby and I had to prep for my actual commercial production I had the next day I couldn’t test everything. I would have liked to test more as well. Maybe in the future though!

I'm sorry, but nothing could be further from the true. Sure, your comment about a good story being paramount is what's most important. But that doesn't mean people still don't want to see a high-quality picture. If it were otherwise, nobody would be buying 4k TVs. Its the same with high-quality audio equipment. The better your equipment, the more detail you'll get from your recording. And sound engineer spend an awful lot of time to make their work stand out.

@@krane15 I would agree with all you said except that my comment was referring to video ending up on KZfaq- not on people's 4K TV. Of course if you're a Hollywood producer and your stuff is on the big screen or TV then picture quality is paramount. But if you're an independent filmmaker and your 45 minute film will spend its whole life on KZfaq then that fantastic footage from a $75,000 camera will not really shine through. It might to some degree but it's not worth the money compared to how much better it appears on KZfaq. I know from experience. I shot a music video in a professional green screen studio using Sony FS7. That's a $13,000 camera. Later during editing realized that some shots had to be redone. So I used a Lumix FZ2500 and a home green screen studio. After spliced together and tweaked you could not distinguish between what was shot with the FS7 and what was shot with the FZ2500. Go figure. A $1,500 dollar camera did as good a job as a $13,000 dollar camera. I'm not saying we shouldn't strive to have the best camera money can buy. But I think the camera you buy should be chosen in the light of where people will view your footage. If it's on KZfaq it hardly matters what you use. All the modern cameras are really good. Reasonably good is good enough. Nobody chooses to watch a movie based on how good the picture looks. If the story and acting is bad everyone will stop watching even if it was shot on Panavision Millennium DXL2. Just take a look at Wonder Woman....

@@atomicdynamo6062 People notice picture quality, it's just subconscious. ie: "wow that looks like a movie" is the type of feedback you'll hear rather than "oh wow that dynamic range is amazing!" Our brains know what a blockbuster look looks like, even if we don't express it in technical terms. All else being equal (lighting etc) a certain look to the footage can pull you out of a story even if it's compelling. It's cool right now to say, "story is king! A great story will captivate even on an iphone!" but it's not entirely true. I recently watched a short film with a friend and the story was very good, but his only comment at the end was, "that looked so "artificial" for some reason." The film was shot on Sony with g-master glass, so what he was referring to was the digital look of Sony footage versus the more filmic Alexa with Cooke glass or whatever. People notice. On the DP side, it can be very demotivating to shoot with a camera/glass that isn't producing the look you want, and vice versa.

@@dna8269 It's true that some things are noticeable. But not so much on KZfaq which is what I was talking about. The modern cinema cameras are all so good you can hardly tell the difference between them. Just look at the myriad of tests. The image quality is so similar It's just about irrelevant. If there is a big difference between all these cameras it is things like autofocus and ease of use/convenience. A good autofocus will make a camera that much better. Quality of image would be very noticeable between say a1985 Betamovie camera and today's C70. But the difference between a C70 and an Arri Alexa is pretty small especially on KZfaq. There's a test on KZfaq between a C200 and an Arri Alexa. After adjustment the C200 image looked pretty close to the Arri footage. But the price difference between the two cameras is huge.

Hey Caine thanks so much for the comment. I appreciate the fact that you see the distinction I am trying to make with real world job shadows and BTS videos instead of just clickbait “why did I buy this camera 🤭” videos. Funny enough, the only reason I compared these cameras is because the very next day I was using them on a shoot side by side and I wanted to get an idea of what I was working with for the image before I handed it over to post production. My main goal for the channel is to provide value through real world video productions, and as crazy as this one was, I did feel it could provide value to some. I have some more BTS videos coming next week and the week after though! Thanks for the channel support

I don't expect the C70 to be as good, but given how cameras have improved the last few years, it's still great to see how they compare in a head to head. Big jumps happen in the 3-5 year range, and these smaller cameras will probably get to where Arri is now. Still won't be the same tool or built for the same use. But seeing these comparisons help me to form an opinion on what feels most like a film to me. And yeah I too love his on set real world stuff. All good!

I used the speedbooster so the sensor size difference wasn’t as apparent

My preference is Alexa, but c70 is still incredible and it costs about 70k less lol

Maybe? It depends on what he's testing.

This test was to show how the lenses would look with canon L glass on the c70 and proper cinema glass on the mini LF. The majority of people using the c70 won’t use cinema glass. And honestly, this was really just a test i shot for myself and deduced to share because we had to use the c70 as an overhead cam the following day on a commercial production and wanted to see how they looked side by side before we did it

Haha same

Yes it is!

IR contamination

@@alexlubensky Why would that happen on the c70? The c70 has internal NDs

This test was far from scientific :) They had 5 minutes and decided to push some content on KZfaq.

@@lukastemberger 100%

@@wcsdiaries Infrared and NDs are 2 separate things... I was considering if C70 doesn't have IR filter built in, couldn't find the info...

Like I said, a lot depends on your AV gear, and its capability. Sometimes you need a very good monitor to realize the higher quality picture and sound. Something you expect from a $20 film, but may not be as interested in as a cinema quality commercial. Even so, it will get your attention, and you most certainly can tell the difference.

Don’t forget that you’re not just paying for image quality but camera ergonomics, I/o and workflow. Yes, the C70 is a great camera but it is a buzzkill in a professional environment. When working with professional crew theres a lot of little things about this camera that slow you down. Just last week I was working on a Microsoft job and (3) C70’s which was a struggle. 1. Our sound recordist wasn’t prepared to work with Mini XLR to send a mix to camera. That’s not a normal solution in professional film Productions. 2. The DP wanted 7-inch monitors mounted on the c70’s which caused issues as (1) of the 3 onboard monitors had the ability to loop out the HDMI signal so we could send to video village for client director. 3. You won’t see HDMI on a professional film set. 4. When shooting in C-Log 2/3 you have no way to send a rec.709 image through the HDMI. Do you want your Client or Director to be looking at a log image? Let alone your focus puller? 5. If you have a focus motor, Teradek Bolt TX or onboard monitor, be sure to have that C70 ready with a matrix plate and battery with d-tap splitter. Not really an issue when you have a Alexa Mini LF with Distrobox. I/O!!! It’s not all about image quality but is this camera built for professional film production? Again. Fantastic camera and I wish I owned one but not great for a traditional film set and workflow.

@@maurice_morales I understand what you're saying but everyone's situation is different. I'm a musician by profession and making music videos and films is my hobby. I'm not delivering for a client as I don't need one. My finished product goes on my KZfaq channel. So I can set up whatever working environment I want since I'm the boss. My production team is usually small and I never use focus puller. So I want a camera with great autofocus and reliable throughput. My films are sci-fi action and require a dynamic fluid set situation. I haven't decided what camera to upgrade to. I can afford an Arri but think it's a waste of money in light of cheaper great cameras like C70, C300, Sony Fx6, etc. Might just wait till Cannon releases C300S with 8K. The ability to zoom in in post has turned out to be super important.

@@atomicdynamo6062 Absolutely wait. Don't buy anything now before the release of all the new stuff which is scheduled to become available soon for comparison. The latest Canon cinema S line looks great (at least on paper). I just hope the prices remain competitive.

@@maurice_morales Excellent points.

It seems the framing is such that the building in B on the right is out of frame.

Hey Fraser! If you see the waveform in premiere the mini LF actually has crazy good highlight retention. Way better than the c70 (and probably the best out of any cinema camera I have tested).