M

Epimetheus I

Did you said in the 0:42 Catalogne KIngdom of Aragon?

Many lies in this video mixed with truth. It's not the actual history. Please consult official documentation. Pro-independence in Cataluña are spreading a false history to obtain support from Europe. Don't believe this shit!

you should delete this false video and just leave the new one

I thought that was Australia!

I can see a old man face with an weed Africa hairstyle. lol

Mr Portugal is a old man with a Afro hairstyle coloured in weed spray. lol

Mr Portugal have a Afro hairstyle coloured in weed spray lol

+Rafael TV Italy is what? Nigeria is feminine..

haha, it does. Good description

Thanks fuck you\

And if you look to the right is the face of Elvis The King, with Valencia as his nose ans Catalunya as his toupee xDDD

Haha yeah. Us Iberians think about it all the time.

Yo bro it actually does

4: Same crap as in whole Europa as well as in my country Germany. I never understood why countries, states or cities that are managed well and therefore have a good economy should be punished by receiving less money. Instead of forcing the less productive parts to advance their management, they are encouraged to keep their bad management because they are going to get subventions. But I suppose I am quite alone in Europe with finding these socialist concepts wrong. But I am not surprised about this conflict.

kieran carpenter Mexico, Netherlands....and Hispaniola, Cuba, Puerto Rico, Philippines, Colombia, Venezuela, Perú, chile, Guatemala, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Costa Rica, Honduras, Florida, etc etc etc

Good history 👌

Hee............... en el punto 4 te has jartado un poquito, el corralito vasco eso no lo mencionas no? lo de que cotizan más por el hecho de nacer ahi, eso no verdad? Y si hablas de financiación y de regiones que ponen mucho más de lo que reciben podrias hablar de Valencia que tenemos los presupuesto más ridiculos de España.

Marcos Torroba, Good explanation, thanks for that. The video always talk about “Catalans“ and not “independents catalans” , people must know that lees than the half of catalans are supporting the Independence movement and its because of that is a big conflict. The minority (the independents) are forcing the situation

Their might not be historical reasons. There are cultural ones today though. The Carolinians are a different culture than the Spanish. They can only survive as a unified whole. If the people gets replaced as per the EU plan by welfare migrants you will lose all these advantages and you province will turn into one of the "shithole" countries. I wish you good luck, however. Even though we may disagree.

@Jim Morrison Sorry, Barcelona fight was for an spanish king, and the enemy was another spanish king. Sucession war or civil war (european war??)... not spain vs catalonia...

It was not labelled as Catalan .. Look at the screen its Aragon...

@@imgonewiththewindfab the only autonomous community that has rights for independence is the Basque country tbh

@@DerAua Laughably poor excuse. Every country has a variety of culture and dialect/language variety. Spain has as many distinct regions, cultures, language differences as much larger countries in a smaller space. To think of Spain as uniform outside of Catalunya is a mistake. From Galicia to Andalusia is very different. (This video misses that some regions are still sore that Franco repressed variety in favor of uniformity. The generations that experienced this are dead or dying so you could almost say it's second hand feelings.) Perpetuating stereotypes and propaganda is not helpful. Catalunya is not anymore "hardworking" than the rest of Spain. It benefits from geographic and economical advantages. Much like states where city centres produce more economic opportunities and therefore more taxes, which are then disturbed where needed most like in more rural areas to boast education, public works, jobs, ect. This is how you create a strong country where everyone has equal opportunities, less draining of parts of the country to flood urban centres, and how not to create basically a peasant class.

SPAIN IS IN THE EU,SUCH PARTING WILL NEVER BE ACCEPTED BY THE EUROPEAN UNION ,ITS STUPID ,WHOEVER STARTED THIS IDEA

@@dragonfly1929 Or he just state his opinion, based on current facts that is happening in Spanish politics

It's because Spain isn't a fully united country and there's lots of regions which aren't Spanish so if they set a president then Spain would risk disintegration. But arguably catalonia should be let go same as the basque region.

ART DECO Eu Is shit

They still haven't even accepted Gibraltar.

"Castilla" (Castile) means land of castles.

@@theangel3232 castilla is castilla

@@theangel3232 No

Castilla is the feminine form of Castle.

@@HBKnowItAll Castilla no significa nada físico en castellano contemporáneo, habría que preguntarle a un linguista de Castellano Antigüo

He is talking about independence so...

As an independentist myself... You have a good point there.

No, flag with red and yellow bars is the flag of Aragon.

Roger RoRo it's a similar flag

Manuel Renedo G It is so similar because Catalonia take it from Aragon, but it always has been the flag of Aragon

I believe you.

Like it said, the Iberian peninsula was divided in several different kingdoms each one with their own king, flag, army and language, Portugal being one of them, like Leon. Spain didn't existed until 1516. This doesn't has to upset you. It's just history.

The "Visigoth Kingdom", also included the southwestern of France and that has nothing to do with current Spain. And if we are going that far, Lusitania, the territory of what Portugal is today, was also a kingdom that existed, and that pre-dates the Romans. So, even that makes it older. But i'm not going all that back. Portugal as a country dates back to 1143. Spain only became a country in 1516. Period. Just because the word "España" - invented in 1516 - was inspired by what the romans called the iberian peninsula (Hispania) it doesn't erase the fact that the Iberia Peninsula was divided in several kingdoms, with different monarchs, during the first period of the middle ages, and that Spain didn't existed then. If the European Union were to suddenly became a single country called Europe, that wouldn't change the fact that, before, Europe was divided in several different countries.

LjFJDhs - And Lusitania didn't include 90% of that is current Spain territory!!!!, but apparently, according to you, it doesn't matter that the Visigoth Kingdom had parts that are now France, but it matter that Lusitania had part that are now Spain... Where is the consistency in that?! The "concept" term you are trying to input is ridiculous. The Visigoth kingdom disappeared during the moorish settlement in the peninsula and that lasted seven centuries (Well, for Portugal is was only four centuries less since we kicked them out way faster). It seams you are trying to erase parts of history just to created this idea that Spain, as a country, has existed since 500's and that's not true at all! Spain only became a country on 1516. Before that, the Iberia Peninsula was divided in several kingdoms - including the moorish. Period. And it's obvious that you care about this, but it doesn't has to upset you. Like i said before: It's just history!

LjFJDhs - Dude, "Hispania" was the roman name for ALL of the Iberian Peninsula, not the name for what it is Spain currently. And just because the current word "España" was borrowed from that term, that doesn't erase thousand of history of several kingdoms, including the moorish. If Portugal was named Lusitania, borrowing the word that was used for this part of the peninsula - even before and during the romans - it wouldn't still be able to say that the country dates back to 100 BC. No, because our first king only funded what is currently our country in 1143. That's it. And Spain was only funded on 1516. You will find this information on any history book.

Madeiran Marvel Actually France helped us in the Restauration War...

And the Dutch supported the Portuguese as wel, they tought me at school. For their own strategic and trade interests, of course.

Maybe in Europe, because in overseas dutch and portuguese were bitter ennemies, specially in Brasil and the african territories of modern Angola. France and Spain were at war until 1659.

Yes, those drunken Brits .... I owe them my nationality, I feel the shame. :)

Madeiran Marvel also Filipe III :) I mean, our Filipe I was their Filipe II and so on. There were three consecutive kings named Filipe in our (Portuguese) history and four in their (Spanish) history... :)

lol :D funny

Cool “Llion” is a common welsh name

Lies again? Changing Airport USD SGD

In Portugal we say Kingdom of LEÃO (Lion) e Castela. We don't say Legião (legion) e Castela

@@Jessica-tr4ir It's all part of the evolution of language. Close to me here in Wales, is an old legionary base that's called Caerleon. The first part is the Welsh contraction of 'Castra'. The second part is what so many ex-legionary bases ended up being called. The Romans have a long hold over us.

I think you might have some kind of confusion. The king of the crown was Catalan. The Royal Court was in Barcelona. The people of the original kingdom of Aragon were the servants of the lineage of catalan "comtes". The conquered lands of Valence and Balearic Islands spoke Catalan because of that.

Daniel Amoros the daughter of the princess of Aragon married with a count of Catalonia, ever exist a royal Catalan family

javierperez Perez it was a royal catalan family as it was catalan, it spoke catalan and it lived in barcelona, they had catalan names, what they conquered spoke catalan, so yeah, pretty catalan to me. Following the same reasoning the spanish king is french.

Nothing to learn here. Nothing of what you said means anything. Spanish royal family is originally French. The king at one time he was French. Not anymore. Now he is Spanish. With the Catalan the thing is even better. Aragon had no king, and they married their princess with the catalan ruler. Peronela d'Aragon married Ramon Berenguer who became king and the cohort stayed at Barcelona. With all 100% catalan lineage. Learn history.

man there's no need to be offended. I don't make up things, this stuff is in books FROM BACK THEN and they have always been known. It's easy to find the references for that. I mean, I don't know where the problem is. I know spanish people has been told that catalans make up history to say that there once was a "catalan country". It didn't exist, and i don't think anyone believes it or thinks it is important. But credit where credit is due. The kings, after the union, were catalan. And catalans were the rulers. Period.

Básicamente

+hoselui richer because wiser. Wiser because.... look at how behave majorities in Europe and why.

​@@lluisbofarullros3223 els jueus van ser uns pàries fins que van crear el seu propi estat a base d'ous cosa que us falta als catalans básicament

Well not really like Jugoslavia. We all joined Jugoslavia by our own choice and left it by our own choice and serbs tried to stop us from doing it. The only comparison this has to EX YU is Separatists on Kosovo rebelling vs Serbia.

this is not even close to the yugoslavia war-reasons back in the days.

Marcy D'Arcy Unfortunately yes.. There is several local nationalistic groups within EU. Corsica, Scotland, Flemish & what have we.. A united & stable Europe is better than several spoiled ideological hotheads running there exclusive agenda. Look at this nonsense going on in Catalunya, there is nothing serious to complain about exept romantic feelings. Which serious discrimination are they suffering from? Negotiations & acceptance could solve the situation. Instead ideology blew the fire

Michael Aleksovski Don't worry, this is not like Yugoslavia at all, the rest of Spaniards don't want any war, this is just a fight between Spanish government and Catalonian government.

Kat Wilson yeah Slovenia is nice

João Duarte I hope you accept my sincere apologies, I very much lazily covered the period of Iberian union in this video. I meant no offense, was merely trying to finished the video quickly and did not want to delve into Battle of Alcântara and Portuguese politics too much- the red and yellow was just a lazy artistic choice while drawing. On a separate note you look like you could be my father's identical twin when he was younger (he is 1/4 Portuguese, rest Basque, Spanish), you look like my younger brother too. I think my people came from near Ansião Portugal. Thank you for the kind correction. I made a newer version of the video today were I removed that part kzfaq.info/get/bejne/rtKDhNN0nJjec30.html Thank you for your comment

+João Duarte +Epimetheus Sorry, but that's not true. In fact, in that period of time, the idea of Spain was the Iberian Peninsula as a whole (although you're right about the flag, because at that time that flag didn't exist). That idea came from the Romans, from Hispania, and that idea perdured during the Middle Ages. The fact is, when Isabel and Fernando married, they didn't claim to be the Kings of Spain, because not all Spain was under their rule. It wasn't until Felipe II inherited Portugal when those kings really became Kings of Spain. Of course, it was only nominally, Portugal preserved all of its laws, as well as Aragon and Navarre did (sistema polisinodial in Spanish). The only thing in common between a Castillian, a Portuguese and an Aragonese was the King, nothing else. So, your vision it's too chauvinistic and not entirely accurate. Portugal remained semi-independent because it was a dinastic union, nothing else. The same applied to Aragon and Navarre as well. Of course, after the Bourbons came that really meant the new idea of Spain being without Portugal, now two different countries. But, in origin, Portugal, Leon, Castille, Navarre, Aragon and the muslim kingdoms, all the Iberian Peninsula, was Spain. The name "Iberian Union" was invented in the 19th century, when the Spanish politicians thought about giving the crown to Fernando de Coburgo, a Portuguese, and forming an Iberian Union, becase at that time, Portugal was no longer part of the idea of Spain.

Meatieso García that idea (that Spain was a name that referred to the whole peninsula) was in the minds of whom? Did they have a say on what was correct? No portuguese ever accepted that and as such, even if the entire world saw it as right it wouldn't make it right... Just like there is no country today called Holland. So although you might be right (in that the idea existed), it does not make me wrong (in that Portugal was never Spain). I'm not being chauvinistic or proud or etnocentric, I'm just being right: the name never represented us, de jure and (at least for us) de facto...

Epimetheus Although someone might take offense, surprisingly I didn't, even though I spoke loudly about it. I believe that nationality and patriotism have a place in my heart that is much smaller than the place I have for compassion, friendship and empathy! No nation or patriot value is higher than the value of anybody's life. Having said that, I'm actually very happy you are so excited about history and you are the kind of person who makes an effort to correct what's wrong. People like you make the world better a bit at a time. People like me just help or try to help people like you... :)

+João Duarte You're not being right, my friend, because you're viewing it from an anachronistic perspective. There were no national identities in the past. You see it as the history of the Porutguese people, a modern national identity. The people who lived in Portugal hundreds of years ago didn't consider themselves as a different nation because that mentality didn't exist at that time. There no nations, but kingdoms, and this is an important distinction. In the same way, there was no Spanish national identity in the Ancient Regime. Both states started their independent paths from the 16th century, and that's when people started to consider Spain and Portugal as different countries, as we see now. But the nationalism, those identities, were born in the 19th century as a result of Romanticism and as a rejection from the Napoleonic Empire. In the Middle Age Portugal was consider a part of Spain, like the whole Iberian Peninsula, and that idea was shared by everyone. After the 16th century, that idea started to change, but those changes aren't sudden, it needs time. That idea of Spain being the whole peninsula was defied during the 17th century, and we can be sure when the Bourbons arrived in the 18th century Spain and Portugal were two different kingdoms. That's the key, Spain wasn't a political entity, but rather a mythological past from the Romans and the Visigoths, a region, and not a political entity, a kingdom. The kingdoms were those I mentioned before. The idea of Spain being the whole territory was fractured after the Muslim invasion, and the whole mythos of the Reconquista was to unified Spain again. Don't forget Portugal was once a dukedom part of the Kingdom of Leon, as well as Castille. I'm not saying that now Portugal is part of Spain. What I'm trying to say is we cannot apply the same values and mentalities from the present to the past. All nationalistic tales start the same way, an independent people who want their freedom and independence back. Always the same tale. And are always just that: tales, not the truth. We have here the same crap about Spain existing 3.000 years ago as an independent country, culturally unified and with the seeds of modern Spain even before the arrival of the Romans. That's totally bullshit, it is the construction of the past from the present. I do not want to bore you, or trying to impose my from of nationalism onto yours, or try to ofend you. No. I'm trying to show how your view of the roots of your country actually are shaped 200 years ago, and how we cannot compare how we see things today to how those things were seen in the past just because we live in the same place, and how the past is constructed from the present, and the present from the past, like Marc Bloch said. Braveheart has done A TON of damage. You can read, for example, the Laudes Hispaniae to see what I mean for Spain being the whole peninsula, or Apologie pour l'histoire, to see what I mean about the past and the present. Or try to see other examples of modern construction of national identities, like the Scotish case and the invention of the kilt.

You are right. I way oversimplified that, to the point were it is not technically correct. I made an updated version of the video were I take that part out kzfaq.info/get/bejne/rtKDhNN0nJjec30.html Thank you for the kind correction :)

In portuguese that union is called "União Ibérica"

its not Fernando, Fernando is a completely different king. Felipe was the one who got the Portuguese throne.

I think it's impressive Castille survived being our neighbor for so long. t hey were lucky to not have any spices. Otherwise

Nope: Aragon and Navarre weren't conquered by Castille and Leon either. They were married into it.

they actually have

None of Spain was actually conquered by Castile and Leon unless it was Muslim. They expand through strategic marriages and state mergers through personal unions, which eventually happened to Portugal for a short period of time, so Portugal was ruled by Spain, but not conquered

Yeah I hate it too

With all regions of Europe, in fact.

well, george martin took inspiration from all this stuff. in the GOT world, spain would be dorne

Epimetheus "so many angry comments thinking I am a catalan nationalist" no, hombre, no, tú debes ser historiador... Y de los buenos... Yo sólo te quiero dar las gracias, me has hecho llorar, aunque por desgracia mis carcajadas han despertado a mi marido

Me alegra que te hice carcajearse! It is good to laugh in this life as much as possible

I dont believe you are a Catalan Nationalist. I believe you only made a video to inform English speakers of the situation in Catalonia. And I am glad that thanks to your video I was able to express my ideas to also try to inform people from outside (and inside) Spain.

Jordi Borras Good Points. I was debating whether to include Franco, I might make a part two, because there seems to be a lot of interest on this topic. What do you think are the most relevant aspects of 19th century Spain that factor into this current independence movement?

+Epimetheus Ok probably your vid is made with your best intention to explain this weird situation... but your little "mistakes" are not a simple problem of lack of accurancy. Let's take the flag, this flag does not represent the territory as you have highlighted on the map. It is not the Catalan flag but the "Catalan countries" flag a twice larger territory en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalan_Countries and people like me do not want become a Catalan colony. And the difference between crown and kingdom is important beacause this is the fake historical alibi used by them to justify their imperialistic project. (Nobody cares if were the Goths or the Franks who arrived first in the V century) but the real juridical status of that territory along the centuries is important to reclame historical rights. More money for Catalonia? Yes and no. Yes it about more money (and power and privileges) but not for all Catalans, only for the elites that rule the country. Have a look to this correlation between annual incomes and "independence" hopes in Catalona politica.elpais.com/politica/2017/09/28/ratio/1506601198_808440.html "Independence" is a matter of rich people. And I wrote "Independence", not independence without quotation marks because the want a bilateral relation with Spain not a real independence and to have the total control on business and resources

Thanks for expanding on that! I should have made a longer video, I had no idea so many would watch. Thanks for the comment

Juana la Beltraneja was supposedly ilegitimate

Rafael Melo *whole

Between Spain and France.

Don't worry, Spain hasn't stolen it.

Stolen it? That region of Catalonia has been part of Spain since pre Roman times and many citizens from all over Spain live there and have been marrying with each others for centuries. Then have plenty of common things with Spain. Why would Spain let it go?

És als Pirineus :P

Catalonia is Madrid's cash cow, as many people see it. There are a lot of reasons why Catalonia wants to break away and there are still areas in the center that still have their facades chipped away from when Franco's bombs landed in the city, and Rajoy (and by extent PP) still hold many of Franco's ideals. Spain has the plan of just never talking about the civil war and still have a monument in Madrid dedicated to Franco and his generals.

Thanks, is pretty embarrassing especially because I have spent time there and I am part Basque (my family would be ashamed) Just made another version, (with my normal voice) was sick when made this one...was a bit raspy...hopefully is better :) tried to fix couple little errors to :) kzfaq.info/get/bejne/rtKDhNN0nJjec30.html

Half of the BASQUE are in FRANCE ,Pertignean ,will they also ask for otonomy ?Well no they do not have much of an industry there !EU ,is not supposed to brake appart ,if SPAINE will not talk ,BRUSSELS WOULD HAVE COME IN AND CRUSH THE UPRISING !

Good hobby

That's it. They put the name and a Kingdom, catalans did the rest (simplifying a lot). And what you say about some sort of catalan language, it's just what happened with the rest of modern languages before standardisation, it's and obvious fact. There are bigger differences betwen modern castillian dialects than between the catalan language dialects.

Agora imagina que tínhamos ficado sob a regência dos castelhanos!!! Andávamos na mesma luta que os catalães!!!!

precisamente...

the spaniards roasted our best ships , on the stupid Invencible armada

Awesome! glad you found the video :)

Thanks! Glad you found my channel I made an updated version of this same video, you might like kzfaq.info/get/bejne/rtKDhNN0nJjec30.html Have a great day András :)

With the EU acting like bullies we should all team up on the EU, break it down and form a new union involving nothing but trade. We should not be afraid of them. You don't back down from bullies.

Agree, it should be a TRADE union and nothing else!

arno nabuurs Trade and mutual defense union incase any country, may it be North Korea, Saudi Arabia, China or even the USA attempts an invasion/throws in a nuke. But apart from a trade and defense agreement it shouldn't have any regulations that would threaten an european countrys sovereignity.

That's what it started out as, The common market was a trading alliance until the federalists and globalists took over. I agree with you, let's get rid of these corrupt, sinister Eurocrats, get our sovereignty and borders back and get back to the successful trading bloc we were intended to be.

curlyjim2550 The european union shouldn't be an union but an alliance, with no power whatsoever over any member nation apart from the guarantee of a military defense alliance incase member nation is attacked by foreign country, as well as a trade agreement to facilitate trade. I don't know if an unique european currency should be kept because it basically forces us to have a centralized european bank, but I'm not sure that it would be a good idea to step back to seperate currencies (might hurts the economy of europeans countries in the short term). Apart from that, an european alliance shouldn't have any law dictating to others countries what to do or not to do, and shouldn't force us to have no borders. Something like the European Alliance would be an excellent thing to replace the rotten and corrupt union

Daniel Yustos To your first "mistake" read the pinned comment at the top, I wrote when I posted the video To the second point I clearly say "two rival claimants for the Spanish throne"=succession war-"unfortunately for the Catalans they picked the losing side"....Those statements are correct-picking the losing side clearly implies there are two sides to pick from...i.e the Catalans were not vs the rest of Spain ....Listen closer :)

The Kingdom of Aragon including actual territories of Aragon and... only Aragon. The kingdom was only a part of the the crown.

even in your correction youre wrong. Catalunya NEVER had a King or was a "little" kingdom part of a bigger kingdom of Aragon. Catalunya as much as Aragon and Valencia were the PARTS THAT CONFORM the kingdom of Aragon, they never had selfgobernment apart from the kingdome of Aragon AND THEY NEVER WERE CONQUERED they were always part of the kingdom of Aragon. In other words Catalunya IS Aragon

The Kingdom of Aragon, as our friend henhaooahneh pointed out was only the territory of the actual autonomous community of Aragón, which formed part of the Crown of Aragon, as did the territory of actual Catalonia, which was never a Kingdom of its own, even though it worked like it, because all the kingdoms (+ Catalonia) that formed the Crown of Aragon were pretty autonomous and not a single, united entity.

Daniel Yustos Aragons capital and wealthiest region was Catalonia

Ah yes, relatable

Eso es mentira, yo incluso me atrevería a decir no siendo catalán, que el catalán debería ser la única lengua oficial de Cataluña ya que el castellano es algo que se ha introducido allí de manera un tanto "forzada". El fallo de España como país es que no funciona como el estado plurinacional que realmente es.

Good comment, but listen about my experience: I am a native castillian-speaker, so I believe I am not biased towards catalanism. However, I can recognize a legitimate cause. I have seen many times how the catalan language is seen as a nuisance by the government in Madrid. I insist on the fact that the catalan language is not considered as a richness that is part of Spain, but as something that should be eradicated. In switzerland, the three main languages are official in the whole country. This is how other countries have saved the situation and I would like to see that in Spain. I would like to see the public buildings in Madrid having signs in catalan. I would like to see a prime minister that can speak two (or three / or four!) of the languages that are spoken in the peninsula. Unfortunately, that is very unlikely.

Exacto, el problema de España es que no hay unidad en diversidad, a nadie le gusta que le digan cómo tiene que hablar o sentirse, eso toca los cojones a cualquiera, si España dejara vivir, trabajar en unidad en vez de separar, los catalanes podrían sentirse porfin españoles y catalanes y andaluces y canarios y bascos, etc..una España unida por la diversidad sería maravilloso, el problema es que tú eres uno entre 40 millones que no piensan como tú y así está el panorama.

The area of Catalonia belonged to the Kingdom of Aragon, they were never independent. Only the city of Barcelona that was a county. A kingdom is ruled by a king no "democracy" at all.

You are correct they were not a democracy. In the video I say they had elected courts(legislature) and a constitution- So they were a constitutional monarchy ruled by Aragon. Even though not a democracy is more rights than the vast majority of medieval peoples had. Thank you for the comment :)

Well, not exactly, the first Spanish constitution was "voted" in Cadiz in 1812 (not all the people voted). Before that, the courts were advisors to the king (courtiers, mainly aristocrats). Anyhow good work, thank you for taking your time to dig into Spanish history

@FBH I was referring to the Catalan constitution of 1283, not the first united Spanish constitution en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Catalonia

Well, wikipedia is not bad, but you have to know that anyone can write on it. Catalonia was part of Carolingian empire before being part of Aragon Kingdom, they were never independent as a state (they were state cities). Anyhow every piece of land in the world belonged to different empires during the History. If we go on until the proper time anyone can tell you that this or that land belonged to them. Why the kingdom or Aragon is not asking for Naples, why Italy is not asking for Spain, why american natives are not asking for America, and so and so on. Anyhow the best thing would be to let the people decide their fate with freedom, but we weren't free, we are not and we won't (unless something changes).

Thats cuz catalans do not have king. !!*!!

@@rabote007 Aragon was a very old kingdom, it had more than 1 king

haha

shes conquering the north right now..

hahaha yes it has a funny face the dude.

Good corrections Just finished a new 3 min version of the same video about 45 mins ago I fixed the "catalan kingdom of Aragon" misstatement in the video kzfaq.info/get/bejne/rtKDhNN0nJjec30.html Thanks for the comment! :)

nr. 3 is incorrect. Catalunya pays more tax to Madrid than it gets back. This is very easy to verify. Regions that collect 120% [of average tax revenue per capita] end up with 90% [of average government resources per capita] while others go from 70% to 110% because of the redistribution. It's an unbalanced system that Catalans feel is unfair. So in effect they also do pay the most (%) in tax which also makes nr.2 on your list incorrect. I live in Barcelona and maintain a neutral political position...facts are facts and that is all I am interested in.

But the Catalan areas were made rich by the large influx of poor Spaniards who went to work there from the late 1950s ? Perhaps you owe them for that. Its seem selfish to want independence based on money created from the nation your are currently part of.

1.- Catalonia is not Aragon despite this lie is being taught in catalan schools -> TRUE 2.- Catalonia is the richest region in Spain but is not the one who pay the most taxes, who paid the most is Madrid -> TRUE, WITH NO WORK. 3.- Catalonia is the region which receive the most from the central goverment and the one with the biggest (MADRID HAS A LOT OF "INFRAESTRUCTURAS DE INTERÉS GENERAL" PAYED BY THE WHOLE COUNTRY AND ONLY MADRID TAKES PROFIT).

Catalonia is not the richest region, is the one with the highest GDP (although is likely to change shortly after the exodus of some blue chips) Assuming that GDP defines wealth would lead to say that China is the second richest country in the world and on its way to become the richest one soon. In terms of GDP per capita Catalonia is 4th (2012 data), after Basque Country, Madrid & Navarre

Well u can't say that u we have no right to ask for independence.

Agreed and well said.

@@ilikedolphins3059 But there has to be a LEGAL referendum in the whole country for that

@@Nora-vm8hz wich is also impossible because Spain is not democratic

@@Nora-vm8hz Demonstrably false. When Scotland is given the choice for independence; the English have no right to vote in it. Same for Catalonia. That being said, good luck to the Spanish in holding their country together. Wish them the best because they have a lot of problems to overcome -least which is Catalonia and the virus.

+lacrudarealidad duele Hispanidad: castileanizing Spanish History since 1580s and still going on

Memnon que deu t'escolti noi!

you talk shit. During the 50's 60's and 70's of the [ast century who benefited from the money send by immigrants to the Spain of Dictator Franco? Exactly, predominantly Basque country and catalunya because they were the most difficult regions for the dictator to control. So by investing in their local economies he tried to keep them at bay. But at that time you never heard a fucking catalan complain about the money entering in its region. And now its their turn to help regions who economically aren't that strong, and they get all bitchy? money and catalans boy....its almost the same as a whore and money. As long as you provide them with cash they will put their butthole in the air for you to fuck. But when they have to give money...well...the butthole suddenly disappears...

They didn’t pay the most taxes.

Madrid and other regions of Spain are richer than Catalonia so they pay more taxes. All nations have wealthier cities so what is so strange about it? That region of Catalonia has been part of Spain since pre Roman times and many citizens from all over Spain live there and have been marrying with each others for centuries. Then have plenty of common things with Spain. Why would Spain let it go?

Catalonia was before these years more rich and industrial region than the rest. Perhaps during the XIX century 50's, 60's and 70's inmigrants sent money throught time tunnel to Catalonia to build the first railway (private!) in Spain?

tbh Henry the VIIi was way worse with catholic remnants

You make a very good point , it is what it is now , main reason for the fall of Yugoslavia was constitution of 1974 which allowed in theory for the republics to secede ( everybody thought it was just theory , that it would never happen till it happened ) . We Croatians elected the nationalists , you Serbians over reacted and elected even bigger nationalists and we all know what is the result

Its usless to tell this people that most EU.members they sighned ,in condition ,to keep from ,DISINTIGRATING !CATALANS WERE ENSIGHTED BY AN OUT SIDE 'INTEREST',JUST LIKE ALL "THE COLORE REVOLUTIONS" ,ARE TO PROFITING SOME OBSCURE AGENDAS ,AND NOT FREEDOM AT ALL !I WOULD LIKE TO ASK THESE PEOPLE ,SO FREEDOM LOVING ,WHY NOT LOOK AT REAL CRIMINAL ,APARTITE ISRAEL ,AND DO SOMETING ABOUT IT !PALESTINEANS ARE BEING MURDERD EVERY DAY ,BY THE CRUEL IDF.CHILDREN IMPRISONED,MURDERD ,YET NO ONE HERE IS INTERESTED ,TO GIVE A HONEST TAUGHT TO THIS INJUSTICE FOR THE LAST 60YEARS BY 'ISRAEL' ???WHY ...

+ CRO BOJOVNIK slobodno napisi i na srspkom jeziku kontra-argumente, posto iz tvog nivoa komunikacije, sumnjam da umes na engleskom. Evo prevescu ti na engleski, sve sto istinito i vredno kazes.

Visca la República Catalana //*//

Sinisa Rudan That’s bullshit

Really, dude? You should talk with more people here, not only with catalans. And a Italian talking about a more modern image for a country, when you can see the conflicts and racism between north and south italians?

Hugo, I totally agree with you: the Italian national image is far from complete and maybe will never be. We have our problems and if you have suggestions, you're welcome. That doesn't prevent me to hope for Spain an upgrade that might solve the conflict. Let me just put it in the simplest way possible: The image of Spain as a modern nation gets formed in the 19th century (as is the case for everybody: Brits, French, Russians, Greeks, Turks, Arabs, whoever). That's the romantic starting point of all modern nationalisms (and we are all nationalists to some extent, since we all have and love a Holy Mother Country of reference). Well my question is: how comes that a certain number of your fellow Spanish citizens didn't, or couldn't, see themselves reflected, identified in that image? That's a fact. Some didn't find themselves in that national and nationalistic identity and referred to another identity as more fit to what they felt. How did that happen? All due to the invention of a Catalan language and identity that never existed before? Are you clinging on to such easy propaganda? For sure that Catalans did everything possible to nurture their nationalistic ideals (as everybody else on this planet, Spaniards included) but is that all? A husband and wife in crisis is never a one-way responsibility: it takes two to dance a tango. My hypothesis is that Spain (as a nation, not as a state that existed since long before), has been created on a monolithic self perception that badly accepts different languages or diversities and that's the ground-zero of the conflict. If you put up a Club Spain in your neighborhood and say that everybody's welcome but not ginger-head people, well, if you're lucky, maybe there won't be such kinda people around but what if there were? Would you spend the next 150 years blaming, insulting, fighting with these "f***ing ginger-head schmucks" and pretending they color their hair or, as I suggest, it would be better to just upgrade your Club to accept ginger-heads? What's better? The core of this conflict, as I have perceived (and for sure that I'm not 100% right but something right I am), is that Catalans never felt really accepted in Spain (unless tamed and "spanishized", like coloring the hair of a ginger-head) and as I say, it takes two to dance a tango. Unfortunately, I see now with worry all people rallying in the streets in BCN in a very dangerous series of happening I don't support, at least not in this way, but I see also the avalanche of hatred that has been poured on Catalonia as an easy vote-racking strategy of PP and others during years, I've lived it, I've seen it with my eyes. As long as both Cats or Spans don't stop blaming the others and start taking their own responsibilities to sincerely solve the problem, there's no solution but a traumatic outcome.

Very good info. As being Flemish in Belgium, I recognize the frustrations of the Catalan people. And I can also understand the fear of the rest of Spain for losing the region. But resolving to violence will only make it worse. I bet there were a lot Catalan that were opposed the indepence, are now changing their mind when seeing how brutally they were treated.

Thanks for this excellent summary. I totally see it as you do. Visca la terra!

the results on the 9N votes state otherwise guapo ;)

Catalonia is Spain. Catalunya és Espanya. Cataluña es España.

Cosme Fulanito Correcto, Catalunya es España actualmente, todos sabemos mirar un mapa y decir la situación actual, pero que sea parte de España no es un argumento válido para no poder independizarse. Y así mismo te hago la pregunta, que problema te provoca que quieran independizarse?

Joshua Bufferson Illegal voting, not even half the population voted. It doesn't count, it was stated it didn't count weeks before the "referendum".

Daniel Jiménez Velázquez Que sea parte de España, por qué no es un argumento válido? Es lo que dice la constitución.

Comandante Marcos said in an Interview that before the revolution he had been working for a well known Spanish Mall called "El Corte Ingles".

Arturo Rosales I wonder when that happened! There's always three stories: Your's, mine and the truth!

Only a handful of US states would actually benefit from secession but most would not last long due to US border policies and tariffs. This would severely cripple their economies when large industry, like car companies, would just move somewhere still in the US since the cost of moving a plant would be quickly regained in savings on tariffs. The US states that tend to dislike the federal government most also tend to be the ones most reliant on it for things like infrastructure funding, welfare costs, medicare costs, etc. This also doesn't account for things like having to fund their own military which would lead to effectively the same or higher taxes than they were paying to the federal government in order to fund them since they would have to start from scratch.

That's all to ignore the fact that secession is never allowed by the union. The last time someone tried to secede we had the most deadly war, in terms of US casualties, in all of history to stop that. Secession with the US would likely involve going to war with the US, which pretty much outweighs any other considerations. Especially since the alternative way to implement change is so easy in comparison. All you have to do is get good politicians into office. It's impossible either way, but so is secession.

It is possible to secede peacefully, it requires all of the states to sign off on it....but to do it the way the confederates did just gets you curbstomped by the US military.

Thank you for the comment, you make some very good points. They don't want to pay federal taxes at all? If that is so that is a bit too far, it would be reasonable to want to pay a proportionate amount of taxes for their population size. Plus lower tax % may lead to overall increase in business and more over all yields for the gov in Madrid....I would personally like to see both sides negotiate a peaceful solution-I think the heavy handed tactics Madrid has been using is not going to help their cause. What do you think will happen?

Thank you for the reply. You can look at the tax autonomy of the Basque country right now (which I dont think they should have had in the first place), I believe Catalonia would like something similar. The difference is that Catalonia is a much bigger region and if they stop paying taxes it will impact the rural areas more. I agree that the policies from the government in Madrid have not been the correct ones. I dont think they will declare independence after the referendum (even though the yes will win by far, because many people that want to stay wont go to vote given that its not a legal referendum). I believe that ultimately Spain will have to change the constitution, so it becomes something like a confederation, and regions like Catalonia will have a lot of autonomy.

I agree, both PP's and PSOE's policies and corruption have weaken Spain (Exact same things as CIU in Catalonia) But I think we should all come together and change our government, not run from it.

you make a video about this topic and you discover this information here? While I don't agree on the statement that the Catalan government doesn't want to pay any taxes as berdaz said, what really leaves me in disbelief is your courage to make such a video without spending 10 minutes researching about the topic in hand.

Maurici Hervàs Sotorres He never said he doesn't want Catalans to pay no taxes "proportionate amount of taxes for their population size" does not equal no taxes...you should learn what words in English mean before you criticize others for what they did not say-You should spend 10 minutes researching what the word "proportionate" means