Gas to Liquid aka GTL is a term I'm familiar with from the motor oil world. It means that they're converting natural gas to base oils for lubrication. Supposedly the oils made from natural gas are "cleaner" or whatever that means than base oils made from refining crude oil. I guess in the average person's mind, GTL would appear to be a "cleaner" process because it's turning a gas into a liquid and gases generally don't suspend many impurities, unlike crude oil.
@stephenringlee97394 ай бұрын
This is the Fischer-Tropsch process in which gas from NG or coal is reacted in the presence of catalysts and heat into oil. Shell has been using this for some time to make motor oils. The Germans used it to produce oil and fuel during the war and South Africa perfected it to do the same during Apartheid. Nothing new.
@zerofrictioncycling9924 ай бұрын
is there much / any evidence that GTL oil is superior to high quality synthetic oils from which the crude has been distilled and purified and man made chemicals added etc etc? Odds on FL being able to provide data on GTL vs synthetic oil base showing GTL superior in performance on a bicycle chain and so that is why they went that path..... for $70 for 120ml consumer price....
@Factoryseconds1234 ай бұрын
@@zerofrictioncycling992 I think at least in the motor oil world, it appears that both GTL base oils and highly refined base oils are more or less functionality equivalent with no clear cut tribological benefit but I'm sure there might be economic benefits or something
@better.better4 ай бұрын
based on this price, apparently not economic benefits for the consumer 🤣
@rrrrrrikke4 ай бұрын
I have used CS UFO drip wet conditions for my wet/winter rides. I have never seen any lubricant gunking and clogging that much. One big black smear. Had to deal with two punctures too during those rides. It was a total greasy mess with dirty hands, even having only to touch the derailleur to get the rear wheel off. Having to touch the chain even worse. I also have a bottle of the UFO drip All Conditions which I use for spring, summer rides when i can avoid most rain during riding. This drip wax works almost flawlessly, much better and pretty happy with that. Very good product! I have switched already to immersive waxing. Will use the rest of the UFO drip All Conditione for hybrid waxing in between when being on longer bike trips in the weekend.
@zerofrictioncycling9924 ай бұрын
thanks for sharing your real world experience. And yeah what are Pinkbike comparing too / normally riding if wet conditions is their least gunky lubricant!!! I have no idea whats going on with that testimonial as it is by design going to be gunky AF.
@richcole39313 ай бұрын
thanks for this! I emailed ceramic speed to see if my bottle was from the infamous "bad batch." They mailed me a bottle from a new batch with degreaser and told me to clean drivetrain and apply more as it needs thicker coating than regular drip. But it just created more gunk and contaminated my disc rotors
@borchejankovski43154 ай бұрын
My 2 cents on Ceramic Speed Wet weather lube. I just came home from 6 hours wet ride (mtb). Light rain, and quite a bit of mud (it's raining every day fro past 3-4 days in a row). In this scenario, the Ceramic speed V2 drip wax and Silca Drip wax will give me terrible noises of metal surfaces rubbing each other. The chain will be clean on the outside, but full of particles on the inside, you can fill them if you twist the chain by hand. So its time for immersive re-wax treatment. However, the Ceramic speed Wet lube is totaly deferent. The base is Silca hot melt wax. Then one layer drip wax (after 150 km) with ceramic speed V2 drip lube, then because of expected wet weather, a layer of ceramic speed wet weather lube. The results: The chain is more black then usual. But still waaaay better than any oil used before. There is a small amount of blackness that can be left on clothes, but its easy to clean with just rubbing. There was no metal rubbing noise at all. No dirt can be felt by twisting the chain by hand thus immersive rewax don't feels as requirement. Overall I'm satisfied with this product for its intended use. Btw, I applied waaaay less than what ceramic speed is recommending. Only one tiny drop per link, one revolution.
@zerofrictioncycling9924 ай бұрын
thanks borche - so you applied wet over the top of hot melt and ss drip ?
@borchejankovski43154 ай бұрын
@@zerofrictioncycling992 Kind of, but I might have used bad wording. Let me explain it better: Immersive wax. After +-150km top up with cs ufo drip wax v2. Another 80km ride. And then cs wet weather drip wax. Basically I'm just topping up with the most suitable lube for the next ride.
@rhenceocampo32534 ай бұрын
It’s the same with the indoor/track variant of UFO! Having spent my entire winter on the trainer, I can confirm that it forms a lot of unnecessary gunk around the pulley/derailleur area. Ceramicspeed also recommends not to use the indoor/track wax lube outdoors and I can see why! This will attract a lot more dirt & dust, contaminating your chain. The new All conditions, however, is completely spotless & clean. I will stick with All conditions moving forward.
@zerofrictioncycling9924 ай бұрын
ah thanks for info - i have a bottle of indoor just to test on my ergo, as its not designed at all to be any good in the zfc main test with contamination. but i would have hoped it would be clean as that is one thing people look for in indoors. that doesnt sound amazing...
@ooitzeyang4 ай бұрын
I'm not sure if you've tested the all conditions, but the product is very dirty. This is unlike their V2, which is almost PERFECT IMO. The V2 is extremely clean and also allows for long chain life.
@zerofrictioncycling9924 ай бұрын
all conditions is v2 / v3 . v3 is slightly improved v2, which was then re named all conditions to not confuse when wet conditions released. I use all conditions as a top up between waxes on one of my bikes, its very clean still. As will all wax drips (except wet conditions), apply, thoroughly work in, thoroughly wipe excess, allow overnight set - and UFO all conditions is one of the all time best wax drips
@BeatzarrAudios4 ай бұрын
did you get to test their "all conditions"? whats youre opinion about that compared to the older v2 version?
@zerofrictioncycling9924 ай бұрын
was only very minor change to v3 vs v2 i believe, have updated name on previous v2 test to be in line with current naming of all conditions, but havent tested v3 vs v2 so the results are still v2. v3 supposed to be improved in a couple of minor bits.
@better.better4 ай бұрын
regarding your wet block test setup: could you get a more realistic test scenario by applying the water via drip irrigation tubing suspended over the drivetrain? seems to me that the concentrated stream of water that you're using might be more pressure than what you would get from a driving rainstorm which might be the difference between their testing and your testing. drip irrigation tubing would also let you swap between multiple tubes setup for different flow rates -allowing you split the wet block into three parts: mist, average, and heavy rain. I would think your current setup is more similar to the water pressure experienced when crossing a river.
@zerofrictioncycling9924 ай бұрын
Yes i did ponder such things way back at the start, but anything that is required to work exactly the same every test for very long periods of time - there is a risk that something may occur. Ie test block 4 takes about 34 hours of machine time to complete. So that is a lot of time every test for the drip system to be dripping water at the exact same rate the entire time, every test. And so if something was to go wrong halfway through block 4, i have an invalid block 4 test. And i can just re-start the test from block 4. so then potentially weeks of test time to that point is not also scrapped and needing to be re started. In the end i needed the most robust repeatable process for the test, one that still clearly assessed a difference between wet conditions and dry conditions. the pressure spray is pretty relatively high pressure but its still only 500ml hitting the chain (over a period of 1 minute) every circa 5 hours. And water is hitting the rollers etc, so by time its deep inside chain, its not "blasting" as such - it is just a good through put of water. A lot of wet rides will see way more than 500ml of water go through the chain in a 5 hr period. So really its just a benchmark - if ones wet ride is harsher or less harsh, still comparatively a lubricant that tests strongly in zfc test vs another is extremely likely to be the stronger performer in their own wet ride. I do have an idea for a specific wet ride test more along the lines of what you are thinking that i hope to have by end of this year and look to have a more consistent wet ride only test.
@neutronpcxt3724 ай бұрын
@@zerofrictioncycling992 Actually, I believe a test that is unrealistically harsh is perfectly fair.
@user-xg2fj5uc2g4 ай бұрын
Do you have information on which waxes that can mix, immersion waxes and drip waxes? Tried running a Silca immersion waxed chain and topping up with Smoove to get a more water resistant "winter chain" :-) Seem to work OK.
@zerofrictioncycling9924 ай бұрын
at the moment the top compatible options are UFO all conditions, Silca ss drip, and tru-tension tungsten all weather. Smoove uses a different wax base but seems to be ok re waxing over especially if one wipes excess thoroughly after applying and also if run the treatment for a decent stretch before re wax - there is very little left to trouble the re wax if it was going to cause any mix and match issues. I have done this in the past for field test and it seems to go fine. But i wouldnt recommend just re apply as top up lube multiple times between waxings as smoove will start to gunk up and its not as compatible as those using a similar very refined paraffin base. Smoove is overall a great product and a great price point so it can be good bottle to have for some things, i need to get to testing smoove again in the updated S.A.L, as a smoove prepped chain for harsh conditions would a strong option
@WJReynolds4925 күн бұрын
How would it work in drive conditions
@zerofrictioncycling99224 күн бұрын
its too tacky / messy to use a "normal" lube - use the all conditions version which is brilliant. There is no point running a wet specific lubricant which has some negative attributes re cleanliness and gunking up rapidly in its attempt to not wash off - vs running lubricants that perform brilliantly in dry conditions without that issue.
@mihai68934 ай бұрын
Your opinion about Effetto Mariposa?
@jeppekristensen55894 ай бұрын
There's a review of their Flowerpower drip wax on his site
@johnkasza23154 ай бұрын
look at his charts..its the best drip wax hes tested, although immersion wax is still better..he thinks highly of it..tests great..
@zerofrictioncycling9924 ай бұрын
yes it is still the lowest wear drip lubricant tested to date, great price point overall etc - it was a real surprise. However it is a very different wax base so you cant use it with immersive waxing, and it runs visually quite black and dirty. It isnt abrasive dirty like we see with many wet lubes, but just visually - its not a clean running wax lube aesthetically. The visually dirty running and not compatible to use in between waxings has limited its market somewhat for an otherwise absolutely top product choice. Effetto are fully aware of this feedback of course from the testing, field testing and customer feedback, and i believe they are working on something new. Judging by a box of samples that rocked up, i think they have been working hard!
@mihai68934 ай бұрын
Thanks
@dawn_rider4 ай бұрын
@@zerofrictioncycling992 I sent you an email that you will definitely want to read at 21:52 ACST, 24th April . I sent an enquiry to EM about their Flowerpower ingredients and incompatibility. Apparently it is compatible with paraffin wax . I got the impression it was incompatible so have probably not helped EM ( oops ) 😞 . EM seem like a good company and responded very fast !
@peibol244 ай бұрын
Are you planning on testing cyclowax wax?
@zerofrictioncycling9924 ай бұрын
i can neither confirm nor deny if i am testing for cyclowax :)
@clintmichigan91124 ай бұрын
Not ceramic itself but ceramic (maybe they forgot to put the word "like" here) particles....ie actually boron nitride....so tungsten and boron. Surely they couldn't screw the pooch with this blend. Spherical (hollow) tungsten sounds dodgy ASF.
@zerofrictioncycling9924 ай бұрын
yes correct re BN just that no lubricant yet has shown any benefit to BN at all, and especially for ceramic drip lubricants, how much is in there, and how is it forming an actual ceramic coating on all the parts of the chain - the chances of that actually happening i think are astronomical. How have the tested vibration reduction reduction from what will be extremely tiny, but apparently hollow - tungsten particles extremely tiny but not hollow tungsten particles. Saying its a stretch that they have this information will probably be the largest understatement i make in 2024
@Factoryseconds1234 ай бұрын
First
@zygmuntthecacaokakistocrat65894 ай бұрын
3:40 $80/600g? Silca-level chutzpah right there. Try $20/kg manufacturing cost, plus say 50% markup @ wholesale. Still only $20/600g. & don't give me "R&D/capital cost/ROE" etc. The 'super-secret' woo is getting a bit old, and it seems like the bandwagon is getting a bit back-heavy with these brands reinventing a fairly quotidian wheel.
@better.better4 ай бұрын
between that and recommending double-double applications to use the bottle up quicker 🙄
@better.better4 ай бұрын
I mean maybe the point is to give the lube time to penetrate while it sits overnight, but it looks to me like it's so thick that's unlikely to happen. or maybe the idea is that it's supposed to be an ablative protection, and once the coating is gone from the top, it's just no longer protected