The South African Cade mechanic is hilarious. The irony is the weather is constantly sh!t all year round NE England where they all live and wax is ideal.
@fleurdelispens5 ай бұрын
I'd like to steel man Nick's argument because it's similar to the advice I've given my friends about waxing. For those of us who are already really good about taking care of our drivetrains, waxing is a no-brainer. However, I run in circles with a lot of transport cyclists, people who use their bikes day in and day out, in all conditions, just to go about their daily needs. A lot of them are nowhere near meticulous enough, in my opinion, to maintain a waxed chain. I don't need to tell this community how awesome wax is, but it is not as forgiving re upkeep as, say, oil-based lubricants. I've only been waxing for a couple months, but one time I forgot to do a clean and rewax after my bike was out in the wet, and my chain was rusty the next day (in my defense, I was coming down with a cold). That just didn't happen when I used oil-based lubes. Should you clean and relube your drivetrain after riding in the wet? Yes, but a lot of people simply won't, and as a bike shop owner, it's really hard to tell which customers will be the diligent ones and which ones won't. Especially since there are bound to be a lot of people who aspire to be that super diligent maintainer but never will unless some outside force holds them accountable, if then. For those muppets (I use the term affectionately), waxing is 100% the wrong approach. I think we, as do frankly everyone, get so caught up in our own bubble that we forget about all the people who aren't in that bubble. I mean hell, I'm not particularly diligent about cleaning my bike. My drivetrain is clean, but the rest of my bike is very much not cause >85% of my riding is going to places to do things. I don't have time or the bandwidth to do a full wash after a 30mi day, most of which was in the rain. So yeah, thanks for coming to my TED talk. P.S. re quick links, KMC says theirs are good for three uses, and I'm at I think four or five on my current one, and it's still fine. I absolutely will be keeping a close eye on how easy it is to do and undo though
@demaffias5 ай бұрын
I personally would advise my transport friends to switch to belt drive, imho the best solution for those kind of uses. My personal transport bike is waxed, my wife's is belt drive, I will be switching to belt as well on my next transport bike. Sport bikes I'll keep waxing, obviously :)
@fleurdelispens5 ай бұрын
@@demaffias I agree that they are the best choice for commuters, but unfortunately wide-range belt-drives just aren't affordable yet
@lenolenoleno5 ай бұрын
But like Adam has said, he tests a gamut of products. My recommendation to those "transport" type cycalists is to still go better than factory lube and use Smoove + run the chain through a rag + isopropyl once a week and you'll rarely ever have to do a full degrease with harsh chemicals + get much better life put of their drivetrain (I mean if they're riding to do something positive for the enviromemt a touch extra care for a whole lot of longevity is consistsnt with their values).
@andrewmcalister34625 ай бұрын
You make some good points there. The only thing I would add into the mix is drivetrain life. If someone is a committed bike commuter doing 20km each way, they could be doing 8000 commuting km per year. Even on lower end components, they could save the cost of several chains and a cassette each year by waxing.
@dirtbagbikeventures9035 ай бұрын
My thoughts exactly. There are valid reasons why a shop owner wouldn't recommend wax to everyone but his reasoning was nonsense.
@robinhawes88435 ай бұрын
Thanks for the Cade response! Usually I find their tips/discussions on other stuff to be interesting- but that bit really frustrated me
@FL-ym6hm5 ай бұрын
I challenge Cade Media to watch your videos and wax for one season and then get back with an opinion. I’ll never stop waxing my chains. So easy and way cleaner.
@thomaskuhn65415 ай бұрын
The Cade "mechanic" guy making all the incorrect comments is a bit self-important, as if he's important enough that anyone would sue him over incorrect information. I've seen him show the same attitude in other videos, the main host and the woman I like.
@neilblackburn31335 ай бұрын
How can Cade Media have such strong views on something, which to date, they've never even tried!? They've also mentioned several times on their podcast that they never read the comments, more nonsense. Mechanic Nick has some very over the top opinions, the same with bike fitter James who also features on their channel, it's almost as if they're doing deliberately for views........
@LukeGJPotter5 ай бұрын
Remember the WendWax defence by Cade and Jam back in the day? Those were the days.
@LaurentiusTriarius5 ай бұрын
Rage bait, I listen to the podcast often I always have a good laugh, I'm about 20% ok with what they say, the other 80% is uninformed nonsense, that's their specialty 😂
@richardhaselwood94785 ай бұрын
James' stuff is pretty awesome though.
@jorgelucascouto5 ай бұрын
10:44 Me too, I wonder why people complain so much on cleaning a chain for waxing, all common lubricant instructions recomend to remove the factory grease from the chain before using the lubricant.
@overbikedrandonneuring5 ай бұрын
Many thanks for addressing ultra distance lubrication. UFO drip was quite poor in that context. I also concluded a new chain each day (300-350km or so) is probably the best way wax can work without a long sleep stop, which will be the strategy this year. I do wonder at which point and under which conditions the losses of a Rohloff and belt drive become more efficient than an abused chain for self supported ultra events. If you are interested, I am sure Audax Australia would love to have you join an event. 200k is a good place to start!
@zerofrictioncycling9925 ай бұрын
Yes good question - i might try and see if jason smith knows some good figures as i have heard conflicting numbers re belt drive losses and hub drive - but overall between the two i think it is fairly substantial - such that a bad chain might me on par or possibly worse, but with just a little knowledge chain should well ahead for the majority of the event at least which would put it ahead overall. I am also unfamiliar with rohloff reliability but for sure fixing a hub or even shimano alfine - thats going be more difficult at a random regional bike shop vs any chain / mech issues.
@sarahdisco-dolly11505 ай бұрын
I've started to avoid listening to Cade advice because they are far too out of touch. The mechanic chap is a typical type, talks confidentially about something he knows nothing about.
@gweflj5 ай бұрын
100%
@kieranbarry81935 ай бұрын
ive smelt bs from him and his channel for some time....unsubbed long ago
@stephendenagy33965 ай бұрын
Truth.
@MrVizzle5 ай бұрын
I've stopped when they start bringing SJ and other unrelated topics.
@georgec28945 ай бұрын
💯
@stephenringlee97395 ай бұрын
Thanks for this timely advice re: ultra distances. We're departing for France in May with one of our tandems to do a 1500km ride. After corresponding with Silca on this topic, we've decided to start with our normal immersive waxed chains, then top off with SuperSecret drip wax each evening (allowing it to dry overnight). In the event we have multiple days of rain, we're bringing some Synergetic drip oil lube to substitute for the drip wax. It will be mostly road cycling so the muck factor will be low. Adam's advice appears to confirm this strategy. One could use other brands too but we started with Silca and have so far had good results on both tandems (which each drive chains unless carefully maintained). Many thanks for your exceptional engineering work on chain lubes which has cut our chain/cassette/ring costs materially.
@dalemadz77375 ай бұрын
Hello, will it not require to get that oil grease off to be able to wax the chain in the future?
@dawn_rider5 ай бұрын
On Silcas product page for synergetic-wet-lube a John R. E. Ruhl J asks ... " How does this new wet lube work with your hot wax? " and the Silca response is ... "The Synergetic lube and Hot Wax are not compatible as they have different bases with oil and wax. If you are looking for something to top up your waxed chain, try our Super Secret Lube which is a drip on wax."
@101001101015 ай бұрын
I have to admit, sometimes I’m highly jealous of people that can go through life with this much arrogance and confidence. What a wanker
@zerofrictioncycling9925 ай бұрын
As they say ignorance is bliss! so seemingly are people who are completely embarrassment proof of which there seems to be no shortage...
@joshuabuilds30515 ай бұрын
I reuse sram 9 speed quick links maybe 40 times? They did fail me once on my full suspension I think due to pedal kickback. But now i carry spare quick links with my presta to shcrader adapters. Not quite the end of the world.
@bikesavvy36545 ай бұрын
Old mate who responded to the Cade Media Wax question has a bike shop. Hard to sell products when they don’t wear out. Bet he pushes MUC Off
@zerofrictioncycling9925 ай бұрын
have seen that personally in adl. the largest bike shop considered stocking msw - but then when "they put their business hats on" - direct quote - "they worried they would be costing themselves money with lower chain and cassette wear". Nice. I asked them if they could find bearings that last half as long for the same price would they start selling those etc, and that in general the age old adage of look after your customer to the best of your ability and they will look after you etc - They then told me i was "green" and didnt understand business (this is despite me previously running large sales teams for big companies with sales budgets into tens of millions per year.... meeting cost and revenue kpi's for a 250 seat call centre etc - i know nothing of costs, revenue and customer growth and retention.... sheezus). So then not long after i saw they started stocking wend wax instead!! And of course heavily sold Muc-Off and Finish line. Try to find a good lubricant at some bike stores - its all about who has done heavy marketing for brand name, and yield per sale for them -so if it sells easily and at high margin - outcome for the customer is a non consideration.
@MrAnon-20245 ай бұрын
I watched that video with the so called ‘mechanic’ guest, and a few others where he gives his mechanics point of view, and I must say the guy talks a load of tosh. It’s a great advert on why people should look to employ the services of a different mechanic!
@307.William3 ай бұрын
Waxing has proven to be the most durable and wear resistant chain lube for all weather and back country adventures.
@infocuslearning5 ай бұрын
A chain is only as strong as its weakest link which, nowadays, is whatever quicklink it comes with. I change my quicklink now way more often than I did before I started immersive waxing. The reality is that most people probably never remove the factory grease from their chain before they start adding oil on top of it and never change their quicklink. Sure, they're a convenience, but they're not just a risk for waxers. At least I get to check my quicklink regularly, which I wouldn't do if I wasn't re-waxing.
@zerofrictioncycling9925 ай бұрын
at this stage the fear re master links i dont this is generally warranted. I should have mentioned in the vid but forgot, but at the moment we have warrantied more chains in the last 8 years than master links. It is of course possible that a customer is more likely to contact re warranty if a chain fails, but also a master link fail really ruins a ride so i think tend to be contacted if that happens as well. We sell thousands of chains per year, and countless thousands of master links (most are in packs) - especially for 11spd chains so far we are double the number of reported failures for chains across all brands than we are reported master link failures. Chains have a failure rate too, at they seem at least as common as master links. That was the most strident fear inducement around master links that i have heard to date, and honestly i think it was just a bit beyond the reality, and one shouldnt be giving up on a really low friction drivetrain when one can just use masters links as per mfg instructions. Really worn chains are at higher risk of failure vs not worn chains - so people who are able to be a on a lower wear path (wax, or just proper maintenance of drip lubes).... really how are master links viewed as such a massive issue when they simply are not, remotely - not even in the same galaxy re level of concern portrayed by Cade on that vid
@infocuslearning5 ай бұрын
@@zerofrictioncycling992Interesting!
@ryuujinusa5 ай бұрын
Pretty shady of Cade to delete that stuff. If they did delete your comments, that's an unsub from me (to them).
@robertkelly285 ай бұрын
Cheers Adam. Love your video as usual. I’ve been using Ceramic Speed Chains with the CS Drip for a few years now. I’ve given the CS wet condition drip wax a go throughout this wet Irish winter. All anecdotal but I don’t feel it lasts as long in the the wet as their regular wax. I’m virtually rewaxing with drip wax each ride and get 200km at best. Look forward to seeing your final results
@FlnDtr5 ай бұрын
I understand why a bike mechanic would Not recommend waxing based on only using original SRAM and Shimano parts, it might be a legal issue. But to say it hast no benefits ist just ignorant.
@Runningonmymindblog5 ай бұрын
Shouldn't stop them recommending what's best for customers, but also bring fully transparent re options.
@glennoc85855 ай бұрын
I still use singer oil on my single speed shop bike. It's very light as it was originally designed for oiling the drive parts on industrial sewing machines I believe. I saw the case media vid and I felt it was was not a total negative as in the end the guest mechanic did come across as more diplomatic on wax. I can see for mechanics it's not something many will do due to the cost they have to charge for labour.
@neil_down_south5 ай бұрын
Now THAT is a niche oil! I must raise my game... Gonna try and find some Paganini glovebox latch lube. 😂
@boostenmkiv5 ай бұрын
I'm a huge wax advocate, especially in the dry climate where i live. I did recently ride in the rain and my chain rusted terribly overnight. I cleaned the chain(on bike) and applied silca drip wax which restored the waxed feeling, but the chain was noisy and "felt" bad before reapplying the drip. If i lived in a wet climate, I would have to clean and apply drip wax after every ride.....but how is that different than using any other drip lube from an effort perspective. I do feel like the silca drip wax is better than any lube I've ever tried, and certainly doesnt get as much dirt and grease buildup as traditional chain lubes.
@urouroniwa5 ай бұрын
You comment may have been deleted because it has a link. This has happened to me before -- even for a completely innocuous link. It seems to be done automatically by KZfaq and from what I've been able to find out, it's done without any obvious notification to the channel. One comment of mine that got auto-deleted was in a bonsai channel, where I linked to a picture of a tree. Several months later the owner of the channel said that he randomly noticed that the remark was deleted and that he had to manually add it back. I've now stopped adding links to my comments. One thing to keep in mind is that Cade media often remark that they don't often read comments. So I think it's likely that whatever comments got auto-flagged by KZfaq for whatever weird random algorithm that youtube has.
@clintmichigan91125 ай бұрын
Wend wax...."rubbing this shit on your chain" lol
@zerofrictioncycling9925 ай бұрын
I still cant get over how that product took off. Just goes to show what can achieved if the sales and marketing plan has no moral floor to worry about sinking below!
@kovie91624 ай бұрын
Also, as to quick or master links, I just cracked one, so yes, they do wear out and do need to be replaced eventually and they're not lifetime use. It was a 10 speed KMC reusable, that they specifically advise to use no more than 3-5 times and I've absolutely used it more times than that so the breakage was 100% on me, not KMC or quick link technology, and I absolutely will continue to use them, just more carefully, and will be trying out the Wippermann Connex link that's supposedly actually for life, or at least withstands many uses. I also broke a regular link on the chain itself, also a KMC, an X10.93 10-speed. I've had and used it for several years and several thousand miles and while it hasn't stretched to 0.75% it's clearly outlived its service life as chains don't become unusable only because of stretch but also because the metal fatigues and eventually cracks. Same for quick links. And I've been good about maintenance, cleaning, lubing, etc. But metal is metal and none is forever. Doesn't make the underlying technology faulty and inferior, necessarily. There's also questions of usage, like if you shift under load too often, cross-chain, don't clean and lube often enough, etc. Some idiot who abuses their drivetrain and proceeds to prematurely wear out or break parts doesn't prove that the parts are inferior, rather than their use and maintenance of their bike is inferior. Finally, in the entire history of people giving out free advice, online or in person, has anyone actually been sued for allegedly bad advice, let alone lost such a case and had to pay massive damages? My understanding is that such cases almost always get thrown out well before they go to trial, as being based on hearsay and conflicting testimony with no supporting evidence one way or another, along with the principle that advice is not binding and no one's forcing you to follow it. I mean if someone advises a child or mentally challenged poison to drink poison, obviously that's a crime, as is giving out clearly bad and dangerous advice in general. But offering the sort of advice that reflects commonly held views whether right or wrong can't be malicious or even negligent as no one can reasonably be expected to be an expert about everything, even bike mechanics. If they tell you to lubricate your chain with used axle grease or hair shampoo then yeah, you might have a case. But if they advise you to lubricate using any of the several most common methods used today, even if it's the least effective one like cheap wet lube, you'd have no case, nor should use.
@zerofrictioncycling9924 ай бұрын
great overall input and questions - just on a couple points; > Mostly chains should not fatigue / start cracking or having a higher risk of failure IF replacing by 0.5% wear, even if that wear mark is attained after a lot more kms due to IM waxing vs poor drip lubricant etc. Ie if one is using Muc-off and gets their chain to 0.75% in 2000km, and an IM waxer takes 15,000km to get to 0.5% - there is not a greater risk of failure due to fatigue for the older chain. Chains are at greater risk of failure at greater WEAR marks - ie especially if very worn. There are caveats to this however. > So far for ZFC - chain failures have outpaced reported master link failures. We sell thousands of chains per year, and many thousands of master links, we have more reported failures for chains across all brands than master links. > Links have re use limit, and each time re used, past a certain level of wear to the locking channel, will have higher chance of failure. if the locking channel is still fine, then it will not fatigue fail any faster than the life of the chain. Links like wippermann connex can be re used as many times as one likes for the life of the chain etc. > Different set ups and shifting behavior MAY cause fatigue failure. Extreme chain line angles and shifting under high load places very high stress on pin rivets, and so outer link plates may start to crack around pin rivets, or pin rivet failure. This is very rare however and typically only occurs in the most extreme cases - however it is something that is more common in the electronic shifting era where people will do especially front shifts under pedalling loads they never would have tried with mechanical shifting. On pick up to large ring sometimes there can be a split second on chain pick up where all load is going through one tooth and one link, and when this is on a high chain line angle, there is a LOT of load being put into trying to pry the outer link plate off the pin rivet. in "normal" use and loads, the plates etc are going to survive many many many millions more load cycles before fatigue failure risk for running a chain to wear replacement mark.
@kovie91624 ай бұрын
I've never waxed but have been won over and ordered all the things that I'll need to do it, crock pot, new chain, quick links, mineral spirits, alcohol, etc., and will try it when it all arrived (and not a minute too soon as my current chain just broke and I'm making do with an old quick link that had been relegated to emergency us in my saddle bag). I had assumed that it was either a fad for cultists and/or too much bother, but upon doing proper research discovered that it was neither, and whatever minor bother it entails would likely be more than made up for by smoother peddling, quieter riding and longer drivetrain life. So a little money and time invested now and over time should result in big savings and increased cycling enjoyment down the line.
@zerofrictioncycling9924 ай бұрын
ah welcome to waxed life it really is a hoot. Ha i find it funny there are some who hold it a cult / too much faff etc vs hey - here why waxing is simply your cleanest lowest fricion option, and hey here's how easy it really is etc. I think a lot of media is guilty of painting IM waxing as this massively time consuming faffy task when in reality for many cyclists it is a net time saver, and some DIY channels drive the "cult - ish" aspect as it is a different level to start buying stuff from multiple places to mix your own vs just buy a top pre made wax. but hopefully ZFC is balancing those out :)
@draugmithrin3 ай бұрын
You won't regret it, just rewaxed my commute bike's chain and fitted new chain to road bike. Afterwards my hands were still clean, in the past they'd of been black with oil and needed multiple washes.
@thrawed5 ай бұрын
KZfaq does seem to have an issue with automatically randomly removing legitimate comments as of late, so I wouldn't necessarily assume it was the content creator. I've had the same thing happen and made another comment and the creator has said they haven't deleted any :S
@dawn_rider5 ай бұрын
YT hid one of mine on this vid, even though it contained one of ZFC vid links and it absolutely refuses to not delete it no matter how many times / versions I try. Adam knows YT does this as I tell him , maybe just doesn't realise how bad it actually is ? Sometimes you will see X replies listed but when you click the down arrow nothing shows up 😞
@rattila135 ай бұрын
I find that nay sayers are typically comparing waxing at normal intervals to using a wet lube and applying more whenever they remember, or whenever the noise becomes unbearable.
@CatManDoSocial5 ай бұрын
Great as always, Adam. Unfortunately, I had to unsubscribe from Cade a few months after Francis decided to change the direction of his channel. It makes me sad because I like Frances and the content he used to make, and Bike Fit Tuesdays with James Thomas is the absolute best. But the other people he has chosen to partner with have ruined the channel for me. It's a shame. Anyway, keep up the good fight and hope you enjoy your weekend and the movie!
@zerofrictioncycling9925 ай бұрын
Yeah that is a shame, i have watched maybe 5 or 6 over the last few months - no idea what age they are they just sometimes queue up next when out on a longer ride, and overall i found them quite good. But i may for sure have missed some of what you are mentioning there - and must say - i am now getting rather concerned myself.... they may on my do not recommend channel list soon methinks. Sadly. Why is it hard to find good channels!!
@CatManDoSocial5 ай бұрын
@@zerofrictioncycling992 Haha. Yes, it is difficult to find good content. It's a rare treat when you find something good. I look for content that can be backed up and isn't just opinion. It's out there but there's not enough of it for sure.
@markjthomson5 ай бұрын
Oh if I could generate enough power to snap a chain... lol, the only chain I snapped was because I screwed up the strong pin!. I reuse the SRAM quick link after waxing and as a guide, if I can snap it together by hand it's time for a new link, If I need a tool or body weight I'm happy to ride on it. Would I recommend it to others...? Hmm, no, I understand where Nick is coming from, but if people ask me what I do I'm happy to tell them. I was disappointed in that episode, there was a lot of no research there and from memory it was a spot question. However I agree, Nick needs to do some research!
@TnFruit5 ай бұрын
Great work buddy. I just bought the CS All Conditioning Dripwax, hope for test by ZFS 🙌🏻
@chris1275cc5 ай бұрын
I like Cade Media in general but Nick has some strange views. the only thing close to "gunking up" I have ever had with wax Is I once had the 11 tooth skipping because wax had built up around the lock ring and between the smallest cogs, 10 second fix.
@colinl29085 ай бұрын
I don't mind the Cade videos, but I think the mechanic may have fallen into the 'I've done it this way forever' trap which I have heard you mention before. That mindset could prevent him from looking at the data you have and being open to change? Thanks for the info/email about 11 speed chains today too.
@SnaxNoCo5 ай бұрын
Having done some multi-day ultra endurance MTB bikepacking races in VERY wet and muddy conditions, I think that best option is just to use a top-rated wet lube. Yes, it'll cost a few watts, and it'll likely result in a trashed drivetrain by the end, but that's just the cost of doing big races like these. Carrying another chain would be painfully heavy, waiting for a drip wax to cure would be slow, and hoping to find a bike shop that can help reset a chain is unlikely on most big remote races. For the record, this is coming from a guy who has otherwise moved to using immersive and drip wax lube for every other riding type, condition, and situation. Perhaps a company will develop a drip wax that really cures in 10 minutes---which would be truly awesome! EDIT: I do use a wet lube on my indoor trainer as well, because the wax "snow" makes a mess. With a really clean chain (no contaminates), and a top wet lube like Silca Synergetic-E, the wear rate is VERY low--and I'm not worried about a few watts on a trainer anyway. That said, if I vacuumed more often, maybe I could get away with wax on the trainer...
@zerofrictioncycling9923 ай бұрын
Yes general recommendation from me / zfc for such events is to either start waxed then move to a top wet lube as wax lubes without set time will not last / be washed out very easily - or depending on conditions and planned ride time on day 1 - start with top wet lube prep vs potentially needing to do a re lube after a couple hours. Depending on the length of the event and the conditions, an extra 250 grams for another chain can be WAY worth it. Most especially if it say wet day 1, then fines up. All that abrasive crap and extra watts loss by having an abrasive "lubricant" running on chain vs replacing with fresh prepped low friction chain - that will be way faster vs days of riding a chain hammered with crap on day one etc. The longer the event, the more benefit also to switching to a fresh chain halfway through etc.
@SnaxNoCo3 ай бұрын
@@zerofrictioncycling992 For self-supported multi-day bikepacking races like the Tour Divide, Colorado Trail Race, Arizona Trail Race, wet lube is really the only option. But, again, I use immersive wax and drop wax for every other situation!
@ridefast05 ай бұрын
Great content. I used my spare tube and spare chain last week, it took half an hour no tools and saved me a long walk on a beach! Have you ever seen an inner tube wrapped around a cassette?
@zerofrictioncycling9925 ай бұрын
that i havent, but it does not sound like that is low friction cycling! if you accomplished that, your next challenge will be to get a tyre insert wrapped around :)
@ridefast05 ай бұрын
The low friction was between the tyre and the wheel unfortunately!😮
@johnlesoudeur36535 ай бұрын
Perhaps chain manufacturers should sell their product as waxed instead of greased as a delivery lubrication/protection. Cade used to promote Wend wax as his friend/sponsor was flogging it. Immersive waxing is an approach that although optimising chain longevity, is not something that most people that use a bike will do (certainly not average commuters). It takes a person to having a real interest/time in looking after their bike/s to go down the immersive wax route but that is similar to many other interests/hobbies in level of involvement.
@arturpiasecki66545 ай бұрын
Adam can one use YBN QRS 12 speed quick link with Shimano 12 speed chains? from your previous compatibility chart there is slight size sifference with new 12 speed hyperglide chains?
@flomotion61655 ай бұрын
Just learned the new hotness: Good Lube like Ceramic Speed makes you Pulleys more Aero!!1! 😂
@SnaxNoCo5 ай бұрын
The Cade mechanic is, unfortunately, making himself look rather foolish. Too bad. Maybe he'll come around at some point.
@dominicbritt5 ай бұрын
Nick on Cade Media is talking about U.K. weather which means you chain is filthy after every ride for 4 months of the year.
@joules29365 ай бұрын
I’m in Scotland. Waxing is fine even with chain getting filthy, indeed waxing is better, cause the crap just falls/washes off with a quick spray with a hose.
@joules29365 ай бұрын
I’m in Scotland. Waxing is fine even with chain getting filthy, indeed waxing is better, cause the crap just falls/washes off with a quick spray with a hose.
@neilblackburn31335 ай бұрын
Yes, meaning you'd still need to clean your chain regardless of the lube type you're using.
@WhitsHisFace5 ай бұрын
@@joules2936I live in Scotland too and have been put off waxing by the vast majority of information out there saying don’t wax if your riding conditions are wet and salty. Granted, while saying that they also say waxing in dry dusty conditions is preferable. So with that in mind, I always rinse and dry my bike after every ride in the damp or wet. Doing that surely washes the wax off meaning I need to do immersion wax daily? The process and cost of immersion waxing every day is far greater when compared to simply applying a wet lube after the same post-ride cleaning and drying method.
@DMurdock5 ай бұрын
Under those conditions, all lubrication methods suck.
@rhenceocampo32535 ай бұрын
Uh oh here we go…😂😂😂
@frj735 ай бұрын
Ultra distance events, you have support team that can change the chain for you while you stack up on food and drinks. You catch up easily by saving 10 Watts 👍
@dakalla5 ай бұрын
Taking a spare chain on an unsupported race is just not an option for me. Maybe buying one, if you happen to have a bike shop at the right opening hours halfway through on a lets say 4000km race like TCR or VIA. On a 2k race like 3peaks i wouldn't care.
@steveedwards52805 ай бұрын
Or the other option is to be a grown up and make your own decisions. I reuse master links. I do so in the knowledge that the manufacturer says single use. I'm aware this course of action might cause my chain to snap. I accept that risk. I've been cycling too long, as I remember a time before quick links and joining pins. Snapping a chain off road was a fairly common occurrence. And as for reusing master links, if it clicks as I snap it closed and I can't undo it by hand, I'm happy.
@zerofrictioncycling9925 ай бұрын
Yes. that is the same as many. I get that straight up recommending against mfg instructions would not be optimal, but also we are i think not quite at the picture being painted of one is one re-use away from mass murder.
@peibol245 ай бұрын
I started the immersive waxing journey recently, I'm rotating 3 Connex chains and so far their quick links are super easy and convenient to use. I certainly recommend them. Adam, are you planning on testing the cyclowax wax? And also, I want to make sure, should we wax the quick links (I find it way tougher to connect them the first time if so) or there's no need? Thanks.
@dawn_rider5 ай бұрын
No is the answer to waxing the quick links which is in ZFC Episode 4 part 2 vid kzfaq.info/get/bejne/hMqdpcyKvZ2afnk.html . It's 2 less parts that you have to fish out of the wax pot. If you want to wax the links to stop them rusting I would coat the 2 link parts with immersive wax compatible drip lube ( easier to get on all surfaces) then immediately fit them. You don't get it on your fingers if you assemble the link first but then its slightly harder to get overall coverage.
@draugmithrin3 ай бұрын
@@dawn_rider I wax the chain with links connected on, just hot Silca waxed a new Wipperman Connex 9SX chain and was easily able to unjoin and re-join chain by hand afterwards.
@bassw17585 ай бұрын
We figure it out in the mid to late 90's that wax lubes traped in dirt, may be ok for road cycling, not for mountain biking, better to use a light gauge wet lube, just wipe the chain down before every ride as your running it through the gears to take the dirt off your cassette as well . If you're a professional cyclist with your own mechanic that is going to wax your chain before every ride, then go for it, otherwise it's just another gimmick. Kind of like putting flat out and fat tires, but that's another story all together.
@zerofrictioncycling9923 ай бұрын
Hey, alas that is wrong on so many levels :). I think that simply the wax lubes available in the 90's were perhaps just a bit crap. Wet lubes a) attract more contamination more quickly, and b) Provide an easy pathway to go from outside to inside. Modern good wax lubes have VASTLY high dust contamination resistance, and what does adhere to outside has a devil of time moving through a solid / semi solid to go from outside to inside the chain where it can cause friction increase and wear. The wear rate difference between wax drips tested vs wet overall - its barely even a competition. Wet lubricant and the world of dirt and dust is simply a mis match of product to purpose. Decent wax drips win vs wet my multiple factors. And then immersive wax is a step above again. Wet traps contamination just as much as any wax lube, the problem is it is gathering and trapping many times more because - well, dust sticks to wet, and not anywhere near as much to dry, and then the whole transport pathway thing. Some knowledge from the 90's needs updating. Your tires have got better. Your frames are better. wheels are better. Brakes and gears and shifting is better. There has been movement in lubrication too - so what was the apparent (untested) knowledge 30 years ago can for sure do with re check now.
@DR-se3xu5 ай бұрын
taking a short break
@JFomo5 ай бұрын
I'm not a fan of the Ceramic Speed Wet Conditions. It's a horrible lube. I bought a tube bc I couldn't find the All Conditions and Effeto in stock other than online and used it only once. It left my chain and drivetrain dirty and thick with grease.
@andrewc6625 ай бұрын
I have a question. I have been riding in a dry dusty environment. After the ride there is a coating of dust on the bike. Is it better to rinse the bike off with a hose or just do nothing? I notice when I rinse it off after every ride, the wax only lasts about 3 rides.
@tracksmart28875 ай бұрын
For dry rides: Just wipe your chain with a dry cloth to remove most of the dust (perfection not required). There's no need to add water, which will probably do more harm than good. Water will only introduce the potential for rust/corrosion and the potential to drive dirt into the rollers of your chain. Regarding longevity of the wax treatment: If you are doing longer rides in the dirt, then you will probably want to re-wax (or top-off with drip wax) every three rides anyway. That's pretty normal. If your rides are very short, that's another story. Adam (ZFC) suggests that 300km/186mi is the "real world" distance where you might see an increase in chain wear with Silca Hot Melt in dry, but dirty conditions. If your local conditions are harsher (more abrasive) you might get fewer miles between waxing. That mileage matches my experience for when chains start to feel less quiet and smooth. As Adam explains, there's often a bit of protection left after a waxed chain starts to feel less smooth. Just don't push it too far. If I'm at 130 miles on the chain (e.g. 2 rides), I'll often do a third gravel ride, even if it brings me to 200-ish miles. But if I'm not busy, and I have chains from other bikes to wax, I'll throw it into the wax pot early.
@zerofrictioncycling9925 ай бұрын
@@tracksmart2887 yep great answer - offroad dust is high variable re how fine, how much, how abrasive (ie is it rock dust). What rider load, chain line angles etc etc. 3 x 30km rides would be a very short treatment lifespans for most, 3 x 50km + rides in harsher dust could be quite amazing. It is best to get to know treatment lifespan for your product, your riding, and err on re lube / re wax early vs pushing. And yes personally i do not like to introduce water to my bike unless that has already been done. I personally wet microfiber cloths with bike wash to clean frame and rims, and isopropyl alcohol on microfiber cloths to remove surface dust and minerals from chain. I have never understood those that take a garden hose to bike post dry riding as over time, water can get into bearings, you are watering chain etc etc - the bike cleaning products these days + soft absorbent cloths - post dry dusty rides is an easy quick clean without a hose.
@dawn_rider5 ай бұрын
This Cade Media video needs to be mentioned to Silca as it is listed in the description as a sponsor on their current main channel video kzfaq.info/get/bejne/maubapRzl5-WiJc.html . Silca is NOT listed on this "CM Extra" channel chain waxing vid so they are probably not aware of the doubt CM is putting in peoples minds.
@tarpinianmt5 ай бұрын
Convincing the chain waxing naysayers will not be easy but is necessary. We need to convince them one by one. We will start with the weak ones. The ones that fear us. We will make them all believe.
@joshkc96475 ай бұрын
What would you recommend for a one day ultra event? I will be doing a one day, 240 mile/390 km, gravel event in August and would love to hear your recommendations. Thanks for all the info you put out!
@lesssgo27615 ай бұрын
Damn that sounds tough ;) I’m doing Silca wax and having synergetic ready if it’s wet or for a top up
@dakalla5 ай бұрын
This is the way to go. I learned the hard way, that drip on wax will not work if its wet, once the melted wax is gone. Of course after that this becomes your wet training chain ;)@@lesssgo2761
@markjthomson5 ай бұрын
Hope you enjoy the event! I use immersion waxing then for events carry squirt lube. On road I would apply each day (3 to 400km) and in gravel probably consider every 200km. Squirt takes about 15 minutes to set up after application so a food stop or sleep stop is ideal.
@dalemadz77375 ай бұрын
@zero friction cycling Hello, what would you recommend ultra bike touring trips. Like if I have to bike 200 km’s for days/weeks straight and it’s not a race trip but I don’t want to carry a slow cook pot with me. I’m thinking maybe only having a synthetic wet lube only chain to use when it’s raining and to use a wax drip / wax chain in dry conditions?
@tobias39195 ай бұрын
Not sure what is 'ultra' for you. I did ~2000k strech last year with the same chain. Added some drip wax every evening. It did help that most days where dry. If you are able to anticipated some fixed city and date on your route you can consider using 'post restante' to send your self a fresh chain. That's what I did (twice because I was twice in the same city) for a total of 5000k with 3 chains.
@dalemadz77375 ай бұрын
@@tobias3919 well i plan on being in different cities and do around 4000 to 5000 km in a month or so but not bringing the pot with me
@LukeGJPotter5 ай бұрын
Adam, how would I do about changing from a Crock Pot of old MSW, to the new Formula? Just heat it up, and pour it out, maybe try to re-sell it? Or can I introduce some new Forumla into the existing Crock Pot?
@dakalla5 ай бұрын
If the wax is already quite old, just pour it in some bag, let it harden and throw away. After a year or so, depending how much and in which conditions youre riding, the wax gets contaminated too much and will not work as well. After 100k or so it gets loud and inefficient already. I'm exactly now at this point, just "finishing off" my chain and with the new one i will put a new puck of wax.
@michaelpeace12015 ай бұрын
Waxing is the best thing out there
@tonystyles8065 ай бұрын
For ultra distance events, why not start with your regular immursive waxed chain, and a spare. Then when you want to switch to your spare, first apply drip wax to the old chain, and it will set while you are using your new chain. You can keep rotating them and having each one set while using the other one. Am I missing something?
@hectorkidds98405 ай бұрын
Have you done an ultra distance event? I have, when riding for over 16 hrs a day I don't want to change a chain at all, or carry a spare. With a wet lube I've only ever needed to add a bit of oil after a couple of days if it's been wet.
@tonystyles8065 ай бұрын
@@hectorkidds9840, my suggestion is for folks committed to waxed chains for ultra events and want the lowest friction during the majority of the event. I totally get bringing and changing chains isn’t for everyone and that your method certainly works. Like I said, my suggestion is for the wax immersion folks.
@dakalla5 ай бұрын
This was my thought too, but where do you keep the chain to let it dry? In a bag it will not evaporate. And what hector said, it can be quite a hassle to do other things than riding or eating when you haven't slept for 24h or more. There is another problem that i noticed: When riding at night or in the morning and the temperature drops, the moist of the air will stick to the cold chain first. So when you applied a drip on lube on a already wet chain takes even longer to dry, if you didn't forget it before sleeping. Even if you take a full 6h sleep outside, it will not be ready for the whole day of riding. And even if it would be, after 200km its gone. But i need 350 or more on a day, or lets say a ride between sleep breaks. So for me oil based is the way to go and if there comes up some possibilty to clean, ill take it.
@chris_gb_5 ай бұрын
Comments are extremely frequently being falsely removed by auto moderation for many reasons,. Cade probably didn't remove it. Ironically this is my second attempt to comment on this vid because the first and much longer reply was removed.
@freebird618855 ай бұрын
To some commenters: look me in the eye and tell me you don’t reuse quick links lol.
@dakalla5 ай бұрын
I reuse it the whole chain life. Shimano quicklings. means at least 50x, no problem so far on any bike. Road, Gravel, MTB.
@pablolopez5845 ай бұрын
Hi Adam @zerofrictioncycling992, I’d like to ask you about fixed gear chain lubrication. Would the higher chain tension make a wax treatment come off too quickly? And assuming wax is still a good option, would drip on wax also be a valid solution? Thank you very much for all the content!! 🚲🚲
@dawn_rider5 ай бұрын
ZFC 'Episode 11 - Lubricant testing Data' kzfaq.info/get/bejne/l7h_eZp2q7nLiJc.html probably answers this . Drip on wax is still wax when it sets but having a shorter treatment life than with full immersion. At least in Silca's case you can repeatedly 'layer up' to improve the performance kzfaq.info/get/bejne/gqiTotqilZjUiKs.html . I would be interested myself at what Adam has to say because I've been watching video's on Brompton bikes with internal gear hubs.
@pablolopez5845 ай бұрын
Hi @dawn_rider, thanks for those references. So for what Adam says regarding the constant chain tension, I’ll probably need to stick to wet lubricant on my fixed gear. That’s a pity for me because I really appreciate the cleanliness of waxing.
@dawn_rider5 ай бұрын
Pablo , there is a comment by tobias3919 in that first ZFC video asking what you asked. I think though that Adam misinterpreted the question as he mentioned gear hub / bearings instead of the chain so I would like some clarification from him. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/bp6kd8aH27mbnYk.html shows the tension needed.
@DougInMN5 ай бұрын
I watched the Cade Media video referenced and turned it off at this exact point. What a load of uninformed gibberish. I used to like Francis’s videos, but this makes me not want to watch them.
@philadams9254Ай бұрын
Your comment wasn't deleted - I can see it
@dawn_rider10 күн бұрын
ZFC made 3 comments , only 1 with about 12 replies is visible by default ( I just checked after 5 months ! ). One is hidden containing a link ( sort by 'Newest first' to see it ) and the last 1 got deleted ( by what agent, I do not know ) . You can tell because the link was intended to be on the end of the deleted comment.
@lenolenoleno5 ай бұрын
Cade Media used to be a great adventure channel (and Bike Fit James is and still is good value - though Neil over at Road Bike Academy is a better resource for bike fits). However Cade Media has rapidly descended into a clickbait "edgelord" channel with its two main hosts (Jimmy and Nick) both constantly giving opinions on the parts of cycling they have little to no knowledge about (Jimmy giving all matter of opinions about MTB when he can't ride a blue trail with confidence...).
@zerofrictioncycling9925 ай бұрын
deary me..... i think there are times when ones lack of experience with something can bring a new angle to something - ie as a X level, or very beginner user of Y - here is what i found - but the lack of experience should be pretty clearly stated, and the experience review in relation to that. If one doesnt have the chops to review something though and does so from a position of knowledge and authority that can be not great....... if he does similar review on mtb stuff like he does master links which are seemingly one re use away from mass murder - i feel glad i havent seen those ! :)
@lenolenoleno5 ай бұрын
@@zerofrictioncycling992 100%. It's the Dunning-Kreuger effect in full motion where people with little aptitude grossly overestimating their abilities because their scope of knowledge is so limited. Combine that with a monetized platform and it's everywhere (which is why many of us really appreciate the plethora of quantified, logistical and well rationalised recommendations you put out there!).
@rdcanyon5 ай бұрын
Wax cult is real
@zerofrictioncycling9923 ай бұрын
Anti basic logic cult is much bigger. Why would one be anti others who can enjoy simple, clean, lowest wear drivetrain vs... not? strange hill to plant an anti logic flag on.
@COYSMike5 ай бұрын
I posted on the original video, but if this Cade Media guy is so terrified of massive law suits then he shouldn't be going anywhere near anything mechanical on behalf of his customer, when he could be sued for messing up. You're in the wrong job mate.
@adadinthelifeofacyclist5 ай бұрын
Do you prefer the new Dune to the David Lynch version? I've not seen the new one yet, only the Lynch one and the made-for-TV extra-long one and its sequel.
@neil_down_south5 ай бұрын
I think the Lynch one was a poor effort (and you can see part way through the film where budget ran out). Everyone seems to love Dune (if you like that sort of film).
@colinl29085 ай бұрын
Any Dune is a good Dune, although the new Dunes are excellent. Hanging out to watch it again on streaming.
@LaurentiusTriarius5 ай бұрын
I understand the point of view about following recommendations of drivetrain manufacturers but there's absolutely no point to it; Shimano or sram, whoever... Manufacturers won't warranty chains, pulleys and chainrings from what I know. So what's the point to his point?! 💀
@kovie91624 ай бұрын
"Ideal conditions", i.e. properly cleaning, waxing, recleaning and rewaxing your chain and maintaining your drivetrain? You mean like car drivers should "ideally" keep their tanks full of gas, tires inflated, eyes on the road and observe traffic laws? I mean, who does that, other than most people and pretty much all non-idiots?!? Also, ideally, you should avoid pot holes, glass, puddles, mud, cars, trucks, buses, trains, football stadiums, sheep, pedestrians, squirrels, other cyclists, space aliens, etc., and who has the time and patience for that?
@zerofrictioncycling9924 ай бұрын
whats really wrong about his statement is that in reality the harsher the conditions one tends to ride in, the more benefits one gets from immersive waxing. If he tried to be more incorrect, it would have a been a difficult challenge.
@863095 ай бұрын
ZFC. Adam, you are making a big mistake that I do all the time. You are expecting these KZfaqrs to be professional and have more that a nickels worth of actual knowledge and fact along with real experience in what that flap their gums about so frivolously. Don’t make that mistake. Just so you and the smart people will understand and appreciate it. This is a faff, trying to correct these people. It’s like arguing with Liberals .
@zerofrictioncycling9923 ай бұрын
I will often reply to nutters who put some crazy comments on stuff, and it isnt to correct them, its to cover just in case they swayed anyone else! same with these, i feel it is important to balance the conversation for those who may have heard that and then been swayed one way based on that the credibility they ascribe the "mechanic" tacit experience - i may be able to get them to consider other input. hopefully....
@pierrex32265 ай бұрын
Your production quality is really quite bad compared to the quality / benefit of your info. For the love of wax, please get someone to help transform your channel into something that's pleasant to watch. Sitting through your 40+min ramblings with poor audio quality is quite literally work when trying to find info. I've watched hours of your content and found that: i need to look for high quality paraffin wax, shouldn't pour boiling water over my chain before rewaxing it unless it was a wet ride, don't need to wait for the wax to cool down before taking the chain out of the pot, should aim for 70-100C wax, shouldn't use PTFE if i like the planet, OZ cycle killed a dog, higher end wax melts require more attention than cheaper melts but they perform better & gunk up less, i can probably get 20 to 30 rewaxes per 500 grams of wax, & given my components are cheap, i'll keep using store bought wax (but i'll look for fancier one / more refined / with less oil / food grade / lab grade). And i will not use the Ikea tea lights i found in a drawer because the main ingredient is some plant based wax, which is likely to be bad news. So, thank you so much for existing, but it's really a shame that you have 12k subs when OZ cycle has 80+k, and so many KZfaqrs have their own waxing tutorials but they bring absolutely no value / data / nowhere near your experience to the table, but they make nicer videos. Good luck!
@zerofrictioncycling9925 ай бұрын
Thanks Pierre - and ah i am sorry your find the quality that poor. I have had the odd sound issues but have worked to make better. I have listened back to a few recently and i could be wrong but i cant tell too much difference if at all vs many other channels i listen to. I am going to sort of try working on re rambling but its tough for me, i just super, super struggle to get any prep time to try and script, its pretty much me winging the wording on the topic at the time, or i just dont cover topics. you tube wont be forte. I will keep trying to improve and hope its not terrible - but also i a) never thought i would try you tube when started, i am not a public person or speaker at all and b) at this stage am not planning to stay too much longer - maybe i push on a bit to get zfc to 10 years and then retire or maybe earlier - initial plan was till im 50 which is this year, but its still fun, and i feel there is still a good bit to be done yet - so will see. in short i am unlikely to be investing in more expensive mic's / software / editors etc. I understand if im not for you, i am certainly not for everyone. or a majority. I didnt expect to get to 1000 subs, so 12k for a crap presenter talking about chain lube is ok for me :) Oz started a long time ago, it was much easier then to gain subs as there was so much less competition. now YT is flooded, and a lot of it click bait, a lot of it made up drama - which more people love vs not drama. or channels attached to long time publications, race watching channels and just ten thousand others. No doubt if i started YT 10 years ago, even being crap - i would have a lot more subs. A vid i saw recently said getting 10k subs today is like getting 100k subs ten years ago - no idea if accurate, but for sure it was easier then. Especially for someone who is ok to do some of the things he does.
@davidmurphy91515 ай бұрын
A little extra defensive - seems like someone business might be impacted by a very reasonable safety concer.
@Runningonmymindblog5 ай бұрын
Didn't seem defensive, fact vs opinion
@feedbackzaloop5 ай бұрын
@@Runningonmymindblog rather opinion vs opinion, both backed up by facts. Facts coming from the lab vs coming from the shop, nearly opposite ends of the use spectrum. No wonder they don't meet in the middle.
@zerofrictioncycling9925 ай бұрын
Yes david.... not everything is a commercial conspiracy. Master links are hardly a complex, or new thing. It is not difficult to use them as per mfg instructions, or for most (not all) cases, use re useable links. The huge majority can very easily and very safely enjoy having the lowest wear, cleanest drivetrains simply by observing the above, as presented. There does not need to be a morbid fear of the master link. Do you not think a mechanic would be a great person to be able to advise how to simply ensure you know what are good options - as i think i presented? A mechanic should know a little about master links, and how to use them with waxing, if he is going to talk about waxing? And also did you miss that part about how we sell ALL best knowns options. Waxing is only a part of what we do. It is most focussed on information wise because it is the most different than what many are used to who have only ever used drip lubricants, and there are so many myths and misconceptions pumped out to correct. The driving aim is to save easily avoidable drivetrain wear and cost. It simply happens to fact that the lowest friction and wear path is immersive waxing. And it can be shame if people miss the opportunity to consider that path which may suit them very well, because they were presented miss information. Over the last 8 years we have sold over 10,000 chains, and i dont know (i dont track master links) thousands and thousands of packs of master links - mostly to waxers of course. Currently we are on 17 x chains failures warrantied for 11spd chains, 4 for 12spd chains (across all brands sold). We have had a total of 9 reported 11spd master link failures and 4 for 12spd. So to date we have near double the number of chains failed vs master links for 11spd, and even for 12spd. Master links are hardly a scary monster to fret and fear monger about. Just use them correctly, its as simple as that, and almost all can use the correctly and enjoy a super low friction chain and drivetrain.