The South African Cade mechanic is hilarious. The irony is the weather is constantly sh!t all year round NE England where they all live and wax is ideal.

I'd like to steel man Nick's argument because it's similar to the advice I've given my friends about waxing. For those of us who are already really good about taking care of our drivetrains, waxing is a no-brainer. However, I run in circles with a lot of transport cyclists, people who use their bikes day in and day out, in all conditions, just to go about their daily needs. A lot of them are nowhere near meticulous enough, in my opinion, to maintain a waxed chain. I don't need to tell this community how awesome wax is, but it is not as forgiving re upkeep as, say, oil-based lubricants. I've only been waxing for a couple months, but one time I forgot to do a clean and rewax after my bike was out in the wet, and my chain was rusty the next day (in my defense, I was coming down with a cold). That just didn't happen when I used oil-based lubes. Should you clean and relube your drivetrain after riding in the wet? Yes, but a lot of people simply won't, and as a bike shop owner, it's really hard to tell which customers will be the diligent ones and which ones won't. Especially since there are bound to be a lot of people who aspire to be that super diligent maintainer but never will unless some outside force holds them accountable, if then. For those muppets (I use the term affectionately), waxing is 100% the wrong approach. I think we, as do frankly everyone, get so caught up in our own bubble that we forget about all the people who aren't in that bubble. I mean hell, I'm not particularly diligent about cleaning my bike. My drivetrain is clean, but the rest of my bike is very much not cause >85% of my riding is going to places to do things. I don't have time or the bandwidth to do a full wash after a 30mi day, most of which was in the rain. So yeah, thanks for coming to my TED talk. P.S. re quick links, KMC says theirs are good for three uses, and I'm at I think four or five on my current one, and it's still fine. I absolutely will be keeping a close eye on how easy it is to do and undo though

Thanks for the Cade response! Usually I find their tips/discussions on other stuff to be interesting- but that bit really frustrated me

I challenge Cade Media to watch your videos and wax for one season and then get back with an opinion. I’ll never stop waxing my chains. So easy and way cleaner.

The Cade "mechanic" guy making all the incorrect comments is a bit self-important, as if he's important enough that anyone would sue him over incorrect information. I've seen him show the same attitude in other videos, the main host and the woman I like.

How can Cade Media have such strong views on something, which to date, they've never even tried!? They've also mentioned several times on their podcast that they never read the comments, more nonsense. Mechanic Nick has some very over the top opinions, the same with bike fitter James who also features on their channel, it's almost as if they're doing deliberately for views........

10:44 Me too, I wonder why people complain so much on cleaning a chain for waxing, all common lubricant instructions recomend to remove the factory grease from the chain before using the lubricant.

Many thanks for addressing ultra distance lubrication. UFO drip was quite poor in that context. I also concluded a new chain each day (300-350km or so) is probably the best way wax can work without a long sleep stop, which will be the strategy this year. I do wonder at which point and under which conditions the losses of a Rohloff and belt drive become more efficient than an abused chain for self supported ultra events. If you are interested, I am sure Audax Australia would love to have you join an event. 200k is a good place to start!

I've started to avoid listening to Cade advice because they are far too out of touch. The mechanic chap is a typical type, talks confidentially about something he knows nothing about.

Thanks for this timely advice re: ultra distances. We're departing for France in May with one of our tandems to do a 1500km ride. After corresponding with Silca on this topic, we've decided to start with our normal immersive waxed chains, then top off with SuperSecret drip wax each evening (allowing it to dry overnight). In the event we have multiple days of rain, we're bringing some Synergetic drip oil lube to substitute for the drip wax. It will be mostly road cycling so the muck factor will be low. Adam's advice appears to confirm this strategy. One could use other brands too but we started with Silca and have so far had good results on both tandems (which each drive chains unless carefully maintained). Many thanks for your exceptional engineering work on chain lubes which has cut our chain/cassette/ring costs materially.

I have to admit, sometimes I’m highly jealous of people that can go through life with this much arrogance and confidence. What a wanker

I reuse sram 9 speed quick links maybe 40 times? They did fail me once on my full suspension I think due to pedal kickback. But now i carry spare quick links with my presta to shcrader adapters. Not quite the end of the world.

Old mate who responded to the Cade Media Wax question has a bike shop. Hard to sell products when they don’t wear out. Bet he pushes MUC Off

I watched that video with the so called ‘mechanic’ guest, and a few others where he gives his mechanics point of view, and I must say the guy talks a load of tosh. It’s a great advert on why people should look to employ the services of a different mechanic!

Waxing has proven to be the most durable and wear resistant chain lube for all weather and back country adventures.

A chain is only as strong as its weakest link which, nowadays, is whatever quicklink it comes with. I change my quicklink now way more often than I did before I started immersive waxing. The reality is that most people probably never remove the factory grease from their chain before they start adding oil on top of it and never change their quicklink. Sure, they're a convenience, but they're not just a risk for waxers. At least I get to check my quicklink regularly, which I wouldn't do if I wasn't re-waxing.

Pretty shady of Cade to delete that stuff. If they did delete your comments, that's an unsub from me (to them).

Cheers Adam. Love your video as usual. I’ve been using Ceramic Speed Chains with the CS Drip for a few years now. I’ve given the CS wet condition drip wax a go throughout this wet Irish winter. All anecdotal but I don’t feel it lasts as long in the the wet as their regular wax. I’m virtually rewaxing with drip wax each ride and get 200km at best. Look forward to seeing your final results

I understand why a bike mechanic would Not recommend waxing based on only using original SRAM and Shimano parts, it might be a legal issue. But to say it hast no benefits ist just ignorant.

I still use singer oil on my single speed shop bike. It's very light as it was originally designed for oiling the drive parts on industrial sewing machines I believe. I saw the case media vid and I felt it was was not a total negative as in the end the guest mechanic did come across as more diplomatic on wax. I can see for mechanics it's not something many will do due to the cost they have to charge for labour.

I'm a huge wax advocate, especially in the dry climate where i live. I did recently ride in the rain and my chain rusted terribly overnight. I cleaned the chain(on bike) and applied silca drip wax which restored the waxed feeling, but the chain was noisy and "felt" bad before reapplying the drip. If i lived in a wet climate, I would have to clean and apply drip wax after every ride.....but how is that different than using any other drip lube from an effort perspective. I do feel like the silca drip wax is better than any lube I've ever tried, and certainly doesnt get as much dirt and grease buildup as traditional chain lubes.

You comment may have been deleted because it has a link. This has happened to me before -- even for a completely innocuous link. It seems to be done automatically by KZfaq and from what I've been able to find out, it's done without any obvious notification to the channel. One comment of mine that got auto-deleted was in a bonsai channel, where I linked to a picture of a tree. Several months later the owner of the channel said that he randomly noticed that the remark was deleted and that he had to manually add it back. I've now stopped adding links to my comments. One thing to keep in mind is that Cade media often remark that they don't often read comments. So I think it's likely that whatever comments got auto-flagged by KZfaq for whatever weird random algorithm that youtube has.

Wend wax...."rubbing this shit on your chain" lol

Also, as to quick or master links, I just cracked one, so yes, they do wear out and do need to be replaced eventually and they're not lifetime use. It was a 10 speed KMC reusable, that they specifically advise to use no more than 3-5 times and I've absolutely used it more times than that so the breakage was 100% on me, not KMC or quick link technology, and I absolutely will continue to use them, just more carefully, and will be trying out the Wippermann Connex link that's supposedly actually for life, or at least withstands many uses. I also broke a regular link on the chain itself, also a KMC, an X10.93 10-speed. I've had and used it for several years and several thousand miles and while it hasn't stretched to 0.75% it's clearly outlived its service life as chains don't become unusable only because of stretch but also because the metal fatigues and eventually cracks. Same for quick links. And I've been good about maintenance, cleaning, lubing, etc. But metal is metal and none is forever. Doesn't make the underlying technology faulty and inferior, necessarily. There's also questions of usage, like if you shift under load too often, cross-chain, don't clean and lube often enough, etc. Some idiot who abuses their drivetrain and proceeds to prematurely wear out or break parts doesn't prove that the parts are inferior, rather than their use and maintenance of their bike is inferior. Finally, in the entire history of people giving out free advice, online or in person, has anyone actually been sued for allegedly bad advice, let alone lost such a case and had to pay massive damages? My understanding is that such cases almost always get thrown out well before they go to trial, as being based on hearsay and conflicting testimony with no supporting evidence one way or another, along with the principle that advice is not binding and no one's forcing you to follow it. I mean if someone advises a child or mentally challenged poison to drink poison, obviously that's a crime, as is giving out clearly bad and dangerous advice in general. But offering the sort of advice that reflects commonly held views whether right or wrong can't be malicious or even negligent as no one can reasonably be expected to be an expert about everything, even bike mechanics. If they tell you to lubricate your chain with used axle grease or hair shampoo then yeah, you might have a case. But if they advise you to lubricate using any of the several most common methods used today, even if it's the least effective one like cheap wet lube, you'd have no case, nor should use.

I've never waxed but have been won over and ordered all the things that I'll need to do it, crock pot, new chain, quick links, mineral spirits, alcohol, etc., and will try it when it all arrived (and not a minute too soon as my current chain just broke and I'm making do with an old quick link that had been relegated to emergency us in my saddle bag). I had assumed that it was either a fad for cultists and/or too much bother, but upon doing proper research discovered that it was neither, and whatever minor bother it entails would likely be more than made up for by smoother peddling, quieter riding and longer drivetrain life. So a little money and time invested now and over time should result in big savings and increased cycling enjoyment down the line.

KZfaq does seem to have an issue with automatically randomly removing legitimate comments as of late, so I wouldn't necessarily assume it was the content creator. I've had the same thing happen and made another comment and the creator has said they haven't deleted any :S

I find that nay sayers are typically comparing waxing at normal intervals to using a wet lube and applying more whenever they remember, or whenever the noise becomes unbearable.

Great as always, Adam. Unfortunately, I had to unsubscribe from Cade a few months after Francis decided to change the direction of his channel. It makes me sad because I like Frances and the content he used to make, and Bike Fit Tuesdays with James Thomas is the absolute best. But the other people he has chosen to partner with have ruined the channel for me. It's a shame. Anyway, keep up the good fight and hope you enjoy your weekend and the movie!

Oh if I could generate enough power to snap a chain... lol, the only chain I snapped was because I screwed up the strong pin!. I reuse the SRAM quick link after waxing and as a guide, if I can snap it together by hand it's time for a new link, If I need a tool or body weight I'm happy to ride on it. Would I recommend it to others...? Hmm, no, I understand where Nick is coming from, but if people ask me what I do I'm happy to tell them. I was disappointed in that episode, there was a lot of no research there and from memory it was a spot question. However I agree, Nick needs to do some research!

Great work buddy. I just bought the CS All Conditioning Dripwax, hope for test by ZFS 🙌🏻

I like Cade Media in general but Nick has some strange views. the only thing close to "gunking up" I have ever had with wax Is I once had the 11 tooth skipping because wax had built up around the lock ring and between the smallest cogs, 10 second fix.

I don't mind the Cade videos, but I think the mechanic may have fallen into the 'I've done it this way forever' trap which I have heard you mention before. That mindset could prevent him from looking at the data you have and being open to change? Thanks for the info/email about 11 speed chains today too.

Having done some multi-day ultra endurance MTB bikepacking races in VERY wet and muddy conditions, I think that best option is just to use a top-rated wet lube. Yes, it'll cost a few watts, and it'll likely result in a trashed drivetrain by the end, but that's just the cost of doing big races like these. Carrying another chain would be painfully heavy, waiting for a drip wax to cure would be slow, and hoping to find a bike shop that can help reset a chain is unlikely on most big remote races. For the record, this is coming from a guy who has otherwise moved to using immersive and drip wax lube for every other riding type, condition, and situation. Perhaps a company will develop a drip wax that really cures in 10 minutes---which would be truly awesome! EDIT: I do use a wet lube on my indoor trainer as well, because the wax "snow" makes a mess. With a really clean chain (no contaminates), and a top wet lube like Silca Synergetic-E, the wear rate is VERY low--and I'm not worried about a few watts on a trainer anyway. That said, if I vacuumed more often, maybe I could get away with wax on the trainer...

Great content. I used my spare tube and spare chain last week, it took half an hour no tools and saved me a long walk on a beach! Have you ever seen an inner tube wrapped around a cassette?

Perhaps chain manufacturers should sell their product as waxed instead of greased as a delivery lubrication/protection. Cade used to promote Wend wax as his friend/sponsor was flogging it. Immersive waxing is an approach that although optimising chain longevity, is not something that most people that use a bike will do (certainly not average commuters). It takes a person to having a real interest/time in looking after their bike/s to go down the immersive wax route but that is similar to many other interests/hobbies in level of involvement.

Adam can one use YBN QRS 12 speed quick link with Shimano 12 speed chains? from your previous compatibility chart there is slight size sifference with new 12 speed hyperglide chains?

Just learned the new hotness: Good Lube like Ceramic Speed makes you Pulleys more Aero!!1! 😂

The Cade mechanic is, unfortunately, making himself look rather foolish. Too bad. Maybe he'll come around at some point.

Nick on Cade Media is talking about U.K. weather which means you chain is filthy after every ride for 4 months of the year.

Uh oh here we go…😂😂😂

Ultra distance events, you have support team that can change the chain for you while you stack up on food and drinks. You catch up easily by saving 10 Watts 👍

Or the other option is to be a grown up and make your own decisions. I reuse master links. I do so in the knowledge that the manufacturer says single use. I'm aware this course of action might cause my chain to snap. I accept that risk. I've been cycling too long, as I remember a time before quick links and joining pins. Snapping a chain off road was a fairly common occurrence. And as for reusing master links, if it clicks as I snap it closed and I can't undo it by hand, I'm happy.

I started the immersive waxing journey recently, I'm rotating 3 Connex chains and so far their quick links are super easy and convenient to use. I certainly recommend them. Adam, are you planning on testing the cyclowax wax? And also, I want to make sure, should we wax the quick links (I find it way tougher to connect them the first time if so) or there's no need? Thanks.

We figure it out in the mid to late 90's that wax lubes traped in dirt, may be ok for road cycling, not for mountain biking, better to use a light gauge wet lube, just wipe the chain down before every ride as your running it through the gears to take the dirt off your cassette as well . If you're a professional cyclist with your own mechanic that is going to wax your chain before every ride, then go for it, otherwise it's just another gimmick. Kind of like putting flat out and fat tires, but that's another story all together.

taking a short break

I'm not a fan of the Ceramic Speed Wet Conditions. It's a horrible lube. I bought a tube bc I couldn't find the All Conditions and Effeto in stock other than online and used it only once. It left my chain and drivetrain dirty and thick with grease.

I have a question. I have been riding in a dry dusty environment. After the ride there is a coating of dust on the bike. Is it better to rinse the bike off with a hose or just do nothing? I notice when I rinse it off after every ride, the wax only lasts about 3 rides.

This Cade Media video needs to be mentioned to Silca as it is listed in the description as a sponsor on their current main channel video kzfaq.info/get/bejne/maubapRzl5-WiJc.html . Silca is NOT listed on this "CM Extra" channel chain waxing vid so they are probably not aware of the doubt CM is putting in peoples minds.

Convincing the chain waxing naysayers will not be easy but is necessary. We need to convince them one by one. We will start with the weak ones. The ones that fear us. We will make them all believe.

What would you recommend for a one day ultra event? I will be doing a one day, 240 mile/390 km, gravel event in August and would love to hear your recommendations. Thanks for all the info you put out!

@zero friction cycling Hello, what would you recommend ultra bike touring trips. Like if I have to bike 200 km’s for days/weeks straight and it’s not a race trip but I don’t want to carry a slow cook pot with me. I’m thinking maybe only having a synthetic wet lube only chain to use when it’s raining and to use a wax drip / wax chain in dry conditions?

Adam, how would I do about changing from a Crock Pot of old MSW, to the new Formula? Just heat it up, and pour it out, maybe try to re-sell it? Or can I introduce some new Forumla into the existing Crock Pot?

Waxing is the best thing out there

For ultra distance events, why not start with your regular immursive waxed chain, and a spare. Then when you want to switch to your spare, first apply drip wax to the old chain, and it will set while you are using your new chain. You can keep rotating them and having each one set while using the other one. Am I missing something?

Comments are extremely frequently being falsely removed by auto moderation for many reasons,. Cade probably didn't remove it. Ironically this is my second attempt to comment on this vid because the first and much longer reply was removed.

To some commenters: look me in the eye and tell me you don’t reuse quick links lol.

Hi Adam @zerofrictioncycling992, I’d like to ask you about fixed gear chain lubrication. Would the higher chain tension make a wax treatment come off too quickly? And assuming wax is still a good option, would drip on wax also be a valid solution? Thank you very much for all the content!! 🚲🚲

I watched the Cade Media video referenced and turned it off at this exact point. What a load of uninformed gibberish. I used to like Francis’s videos, but this makes me not want to watch them.

Your comment wasn't deleted - I can see it

Cade Media used to be a great adventure channel (and Bike Fit James is and still is good value - though Neil over at Road Bike Academy is a better resource for bike fits). However Cade Media has rapidly descended into a clickbait "edgelord" channel with its two main hosts (Jimmy and Nick) both constantly giving opinions on the parts of cycling they have little to no knowledge about (Jimmy giving all matter of opinions about MTB when he can't ride a blue trail with confidence...).

Wax cult is real

I posted on the original video, but if this Cade Media guy is so terrified of massive law suits then he shouldn't be going anywhere near anything mechanical on behalf of his customer, when he could be sued for messing up. You're in the wrong job mate.

Do you prefer the new Dune to the David Lynch version? I've not seen the new one yet, only the Lynch one and the made-for-TV extra-long one and its sequel.

I understand the point of view about following recommendations of drivetrain manufacturers but there's absolutely no point to it; Shimano or sram, whoever... Manufacturers won't warranty chains, pulleys and chainrings from what I know. So what's the point to his point?! 💀

"Ideal conditions", i.e. properly cleaning, waxing, recleaning and rewaxing your chain and maintaining your drivetrain? You mean like car drivers should "ideally" keep their tanks full of gas, tires inflated, eyes on the road and observe traffic laws? I mean, who does that, other than most people and pretty much all non-idiots?!? Also, ideally, you should avoid pot holes, glass, puddles, mud, cars, trucks, buses, trains, football stadiums, sheep, pedestrians, squirrels, other cyclists, space aliens, etc., and who has the time and patience for that?

ZFC. Adam, you are making a big mistake that I do all the time. You are expecting these KZfaqrs to be professional and have more that a nickels worth of actual knowledge and fact along with real experience in what that flap their gums about so frivolously. Don’t make that mistake. Just so you and the smart people will understand and appreciate it. This is a faff, trying to correct these people. It’s like arguing with Liberals .

Your production quality is really quite bad compared to the quality / benefit of your info. For the love of wax, please get someone to help transform your channel into something that's pleasant to watch. Sitting through your 40+min ramblings with poor audio quality is quite literally work when trying to find info. I've watched hours of your content and found that: i need to look for high quality paraffin wax, shouldn't pour boiling water over my chain before rewaxing it unless it was a wet ride, don't need to wait for the wax to cool down before taking the chain out of the pot, should aim for 70-100C wax, shouldn't use PTFE if i like the planet, OZ cycle killed a dog, higher end wax melts require more attention than cheaper melts but they perform better & gunk up less, i can probably get 20 to 30 rewaxes per 500 grams of wax, & given my components are cheap, i'll keep using store bought wax (but i'll look for fancier one / more refined / with less oil / food grade / lab grade). And i will not use the Ikea tea lights i found in a drawer because the main ingredient is some plant based wax, which is likely to be bad news. So, thank you so much for existing, but it's really a shame that you have 12k subs when OZ cycle has 80+k, and so many KZfaqrs have their own waxing tutorials but they bring absolutely no value / data / nowhere near your experience to the table, but they make nicer videos. Good luck!

A little extra defensive - seems like someone business might be impacted by a very reasonable safety concer.