i can't agree more, i mean at least they're trying to innovate, yes maybe today is too expensive and too little gain, but maybe its design can evolve or set the basis for a further prototype that may be the standard in the future, who knows.

The problem is that they CS is lying. There is no gain of any kind. In fact, it's almost certainly the opposite. No shaft drive system, no matter how well designed, can match the efficiency of even a moderately well designed chain system.

Doug but you gotta admit it, it might be quiter, and looks sweet! Gains in my books imo

It's total vaporware. I think the original video on it came out, what, almost two years ago? I see they have a new one up saying "it now shifts!" but yet I'm still to see anyone ride it. As it is, a big box bike from Walmart or wherever has a more functional drive train. Think about that - there's a big difference between "innovation" and simply just trying to reinvent the wheel, which is what this nonsense is.

@@MattExzy Absolutely.

Bro ever second counts. Strava is watching 😂😂😂

Hambini you're awesome

@shawn Bosley I've got a PhD in aerodynamics. What do you have?

Shawn Bosley, do you think before you speak? Do you just blurt stupid remarks out or do you make a concerted effort to think before saying stupid things? Like many on the internet you talk trash and say things to people you would never say to them face to face in person. Have a day.

@@Hambini Hey Hambini I have a PHD ( Pushing Hype Drivel) in marketing I can take you on...😂

@shawn Bosley it looks like you can't even speak English.... "you must of..." ah ah ah.... you are calling others brainless?

It hasn't moved in years

Jack Maclain 5 years is pretty short if you're experimenting with something so new

@@Spartan9567 So what? They are learning about how to (and how not to) innovate an entirely new drivetrain technology. That's the nature of invention and innovation - you spend far more time exploring what doesn't work than what does. The alternative is that we never innovate anything. If they never get this to work, your life will be none the worse for it, and they will have developed a very large amount of information that they can use in the next concept project... and I repeat, your life will not be any worse at all than it is right now. So why be critical?

@@jeidun IKR... it took us about 30 years to get from an LED to having white LEDs we could use for interior lighting. But the light bulb was nearly a hundred years in development from the first electrical lighting to Edison's commercially viable bulb. Reinventing the wheel isn't easy, and apparently reinventing drivetrains isn't either. Which might explain why bikes have had the same basic drivetrains since they first started using derailleurs about 100 years ago.

@@backpacker3421 they aren't innovating they used a decades old design that doesn't work. Its like making polygon shaped wheels and saying its revolutionary.

Even if I sprint on it with my low power it would snapp :D

@@raphaeltiziani7476 Was going to say pretty the same thing : "even if my little niece who rarely rides would..."

Ha ha.....even if you trash talk the system your still talking about it!😂

@@MotoLopez1k haha thats true

@Emilio Lopez : ... and so ?

Isn't it upon YOU to prove your statement? YES, it is.

@@mickelkobeck7376 They, ceramicspeed, prooved filip000 point by never showing their bike going on a real road.

In a typical system the forces are NOT transmitted over that many teeth. Do this Get a friend to help Grab the rear brake, put the chain on the big ring, put some pressure on the pedal, now try to pull away the chain radially from the big ring at the front, it will readily come out a bit with slack even on an unworn chain. The power is delivered through 2 to 3 teeth at the crank and likewise in the back

@@DominicLeung87 Better get someone from CeramicSpeed to hop on their bike and do time trial for 10 miles.

@@lisapet160 for sure this system doesn't work properly in the real world I'm just pointing out the flaw in the comparison with traditional grading systems distributing force over many many more teeth

The dentists and doctors of the world say you talking shit and have no clue what you talking about! Lightspeed wheels, ceramic speed gubbins, pinarello frames, sram AXS or campy or die! 🙈😉🙊😂😂😂

True. But insane tech are most effective for pro riders that already has optimal body for cycling.

MrViking You are right. Average cyclist will be better off with investing into quality training instead of this tech.

So, do you have one? I'm curious what the long term reliability is. I imagine those teeth will wear very quick if my chain wear is anything to judge by. Instead of 15 teeth taking the force it's literally 1-2 teeth at a time...

it depends what kind of material the "cassette" is made of. You can make it from hardened steel and it will never budge from any force from a human being.

@@Pillokun but that wouldnt be light, I have asked then this question point blank in the Dubai bike show and they have deflected .

@@askcyc has nothing with weigth to do.

@@Pillokun let me clarify the point further , the choice of material that they have made is purely for demonstration purpose, the chains and most Gears in the cycling world is made from steel for a reason, it it wear , if you want a durable Gear them Hardened steel is amazing but it is heavy , however even steel has it's own weaknesses ... thus thier design wouldnt work with steel , add to that that the Bearing outer race is actually hardened steel, this in real life the bearing would be eating out the "cassette" not the other way arround. Plus it would be noisy as hell as a metal to metal contact ... Plus that sprinting force woul be distributed to a 1 -3 teeth , the force multiplier here "gear ratio" would wreck almost any thing ...

@@askcyc When you harden steel you shove the part/gods into an oven and then add carbon to make it stronger. For example your gears in a gearbox are hardened. Basically you can make the cassette even thinner yet by making it hardened it would not be that heavy. And that the bearing on the shaft are of hardened steel would not matter in that case but it would if the cassette is of normal untreated ALU. Actually I still dont understand why they have bearings in the shaft instead of using the same type of cog as the front cog is.

@shawn Bosley It's in development since 1890-s en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaft-driven_bicycle#History

In the meantime, ceramicspeed are generating interest so that they can convince their investors (venture capital?) continue to invest in them. That's how Silicon Valley works with all the thousands of I.T. Start-ups. The innovators/developers make off like bandits whether or not their product ever comes out of design or development into production.

@@Postcode-kf4iz Yes, one of the goal of current hype inflation is to get higher numbers for google search request for ceramic s***** words. And the market analytics recommend without risk to be sued for fraud.

Internet is talking about sponsored paid content, while other inventions made by many smart people are blocked by google search engines or youtube suggestion alghorithms. I prefere my custom laser cut stainless steel drivetrain at a cost below $100 kzfaq.info/get/bejne/jdFpqc-krbPeiX0.html which is designed to have 46km/h @ 100RPM cadence on flats by using 72T oval (elipse) chainring and 20T casette, but hacked cheap Altus Shimano with cheap hybrid ceramic custom gears kzfaq.info/get/bejne/Y5qAf5Ni3Jixpqc.html ;) I've made lready in 2019 close to 10000km in different terrain and no problem to ride 200km+ a day distances, so no plans to buy anything from ceramicspeed mareting :)

Atleast the money is going to bikes and not snake oil or antivax garbage at California

What's wrong with that? Their system is designed to only work with fairings, increasing both aero and durability preventing external elements intrusion s

in one video they said that the system can handle dust quite good, but because of stones its necessary to use a cover to prevent such situations.

Yeah, and that bracing and protective covering negates any aero gains by adding weight. This is all a big joke, something for people to argue about because any publicity is good publicity.

@@doug960 you are mixing something. Just because it's heavier it can still be faster. Look at climbing bikes and aero bikes. Aero bikes are quite a bit heavier, but nonetheless on the flat faster than climbing bikes.

@@Xarx42 Yeah, I get that, but how many of those bikes raced by professionals are shaft drive? Yeah. Exactly. You really want gains, show me improvements in aero on a real bike with a chain, not this money pit toy.

@@doug960 what do you expect? It's a new development, still a prototype and nonetheless every pro rider should change his chain system (optimized over decades!) for the new one? Not gonna happen. I am not a big fan of the marketing of ceramic speed either and yes, I am also skeptical. Nonetheless if they wanna try something new: why not. But of course it will be very expensive and only usable by pros at the end.

I think they get a better deal with gamer girl bath water...

Bahahhaha...Good one!

@@Reveon1 cyclist girl chain wax

About 1/3 I would say, 1/3 from the absent front derailleur & chain and 1/3 from the removing the OSPW & cassette. Who knew taking off your ospw would help ;)

Actually, Hambini has also done it on SEVERAL occasions!

@@bikerdude221 yep, hambini also called out Zipp too in no ambiguous terms

it can, it will just be heavier Shaft drives exist in the motorcycle/scooter world but aren't readily adopted in performance scenarios

@@JucyTmats yeah but those are entire enclosed units so they gain a ton of strength like that. This relies on an already light bike frame to take the load

Definitely not possible at motorcycle speeds. It's going to blow up at the first "shift" Even at bicycle speeds it's not gonna happen. This is a retarded concept that's doomed to fail.

Only some motorcycles use driveshafts and the driveshafts they are using are completely internalized within the gearbox and the rear wheel hub. In addition, motorcycle drive shafts compared to a chain driven motorcycle drivetrain have 3 distinct disadvantages: they are very expensive, they are a good deal heavier, and worst of all they are a good deal LESS efficient at transferring power to the rear wheel. The last point is the most important because in a bicycling application LESS efficient power transfer is not a good thing ever! It means you have to put out more watts to maintain a given speed on the bike all other things being equal. This of course completely goes against the latest CeramicSpeed outright lie where they claim this system is more efficient at transferring power to the rear wheel than a classical chain based bicycle drivetrain. A total lie and utter nonsense that any even semi competent undergrad mechanical engineering student would easily understand!

They have never innovated a single thing in their entire business existence. Their whole business model is based upon a scam type products marketed to and sold to gullible idiots for silly prices. Their ceramic bearings are one of the biggest and most laughable scam products in the cycling biz. 😀

Changing chainstay length is the easy part of this equation. Splines somwhere on the axle and that problem is handled. But the rest of it...

They can’t. Those small bearings used on the pinion ‘gear’ static and dynamic loads would be exceeded by a very average rider on a very average ride. The very fact that using them was even a consideration in the CAD phase should throw alarm bells. Other red flags include their decision to forgo using seals on the same bearings.

hi, see graph in this video, losses increase with watts > cadence but as a percentage of losses in the system they actually fall with increased power.

Exactly! FWD economy cars have transverse engines that save on friction losses because that doesn't require any 90° transitions by means of ring and pinion gears in a case full of bearings and thick fluid in the flow of the driveline. I'd also like to point out that ultra-efficient, modern CVTs have what is basically a chain in them that slips up and down conical drive drums. They look and function a hell of a lot like a chain and cassette.

Anyone with a hint of basic mechanics knowledge knew this was a joke from day one just like their bullshit claims about their bearing efficiency and durability gains are. They are a snake oil marketing firm posing as a leading tech edge engineering based firm. Their claims about their products are bullshit, and their target sales audience is uninformed fools looking to drop loads of cash on their products and their BS claims.

You need look no further than that shaft to know it can't be as efficient as a chain.

But there is no performance gain. This system actually is less efficient at transferring power to the rear bicycle wheel than a classical chain based drivetrain. Don’t believe the CeramicSpeed lies simply because they told you those lies. There is literally no universe that exists in which this gear shaft type system will be as or more efficient at transferring the riders input wattage to the rear wheel versus a classic chain based system. The basic mechanics of the systems say so. It is true that some motorcycles use driveshafts in a similar manner, but the primary reason they use driveshafts is for protection from the elements not efficiency gains. The driveshafts used in motorbikes are completely internalized within the gearbox and the rear wheel hub of the motorbike. However, motorbike driveshafts based drivetrains compared to a chain driven motorcycle drivetrain have 3 distinct disadvantages: they are very expensive, they are a good deal heavier, and worst of all they are a good deal LESS efficient at transferring power to the rear wheel. The last point is the most important because in a bicycling application LESS efficient power transfer is not a good thing ever! It means you have to put out more watts to maintain a given speed on the bike all other things being equal. This of course completely goes against the latest CeramicSpeed outright lie where they claimed this system was more efficient at transferring power to the rear wheel than a classical chain based bicycle drivetrain. Utter nonsense and a complete whopper of a lie! A total lie that any even semi competent undergrad mechanical engineering student would easily recognize and understand!

right, but this prototype isn't reliable at all

It was an old concept that was debunked.

Bike share rigs have to be bulletproof and idiot proof if they are going to live long enough to turn a profit, which is why they sometimes use cog belts instead of chains, but even cog belts are less efficient than chains. I've never seen a shaft drive share bike in a city fleet.

@@doug960 Here is one example m.made-in-china.com/product/Mobike-Style-Self-Rental-Shaft-Drive-Bike-Sharing-System-with-3-5-Spoke-Integrated-Rim-Wheel-Smart-GPRS-Lock-APP-Supported-812574985.html

It's the resistance to the wheel rotating without moving forward. Imagine spinning a wheel with your bike upside down on the floor > it slows quickly.....that's rotational drag.

@Ajay Ramesh, Lol

Belt drive does this, but if you want the chain version how about this? tsubaki.eu/products/chain/drive-chain/lube-free-chain/