one can dislike the way chloe has been written without denying how she's been written. personally, I wish chloe had been written as a more complex and redeemable person, even if she ultimately doesn't get redeemed, because I enjoy that kind of character more for both heroes and villains. but that isn't the reality of this character, and never has been.

Let's also talk about how Chloe got Socqueline suspended, and held back, for something outside of school. Damocles is such a pushover. Chloe might as well be the principal with how she can expel or suspend anyone she hates.

I was shocked when I saw this episode, and proud of Adrien for FINALLY seeing Chloe for what she truly is.

People fail to understand that most Chloé fans are disappointed with her season 4-5 writing. Her development was ruined and the show made her into an incompetent villain. Bad writing.

- Personally, the episode comes off as, "This episode is short so here's Chloe being the worst to pad out the time." Chloe's role on the flashback only serves to reinforce what we already know. She has fun hurting Marinette, Kim had a huge crush on her, Sabrina is her willing-unwilling minon, and the teachers at this school are so useless I'm surprised they're not the villains. Maybe if the episode was from Adrien's perspective and he learned of what Chloe actually did to Marinette for all those years then contrasting that with Kim's unintentionally harmful prank. Then you'd have him realizing that Chloe can't change because she doesn't regret her actions whereas Kim does and aplogises for it. Reinforcing that Chloe is irredeemable because she has nothing to loose. If Chloe is cut out, then there's a solid episode on a past experience Marinette had with Kim and why she's so hesitant and anxious about her love life. It makes sense narratively since Kim has always been portrayed as airheaded, and for him to be an insensitive prankster isn't out of character for him. It feels more organic because Kim isn't pranking her to be malicious he just thinks it's funny and doesn't understand why it was harmful because they're in his home turf. To Kim, swimming and being in the pool is the best thing ever, there's no way it can hurt anyone, especially not when you FALL OFF THE HIGH DIVE. He only reflects when he's directly confronted about what he's done by his friends and is actually remorseful. As far as Chloe goes in the story, she doesn't add anything of value other than to be a scapegoat for other character's development rather than having any of her own.

Chloe's redemption arc was thrown out the window as soon as they first thought out this episode's plot. Chloe was so well written in season 2 when she got the bee miraculous, this was obviously well before derison was ever an episode. In miracle queen, she was angry at marinette for not choosing her to save her parents,. In the same episode, half the identities of the other miraculous users were revealed to hawkmoth. Then, in season 4, Ryuko, King monkey, Viperion, Rena rouge, Carapace and Pegasus (who were known to Gabriel) were allowed to use there miraculous. As much as I love Chloe, this episode makes me sad because she will probably never get the redemption that was promised. In style queen, she wants the validation of her mother and she left her. She says to her "Mom, why don't you love me?" Chloe was made up as they went along, she went from bully to hero back to bully. I hope that people can see both sides and that chloe and marinette stans don't keep fighting

Bullying is not a joke and seriously there are people like Chloe who never change .

The problem is that Marinette trauma does not make sense, since there is no preparation or foreshadowing. She wasn’t traumatized by the pool in Mr Pigeon 72 and seems ok with Kim and Sabrina, even though they supposedly helped Chloe playing her dirty tricks. For Mylène case : people tend to forget she has a loving father who cares about her, and supporting friends on the contrary of Chloe. Plus, Chloe used to admire her mother a lot, and acted the way she is because she didn’t get proper education. Concerning Ladybug, she feeled betrayed by her in the first place, since she played with her feelings in Miraculer (by not being honest with her). Hawkmoth played with her insecurities and fear of abandonment where Ladybug chose to give the miraculous to Kagami. Of course, she is still a bad person and that’s no excuse, but that kinda explains the way she thinks. Chloe needs guidance and therapy, not being left alone by herself. And besides, she is still a teenager. She still can change.

She isnt a terrible person, the writers wanted to make her an irredeemable person simply because they hate her. Sure her actions are terrible but she doesnt even have a good family system to support her. Also is it even selfish to save your family for the greater good? She choose to work with hawk moth to save her family.

I haven't seen this episode yet, but knowing how much Chloe has damaged her self-esteem and watching this video just makes me disappointed that people would still support her. Yes, her character was pretty sassy and funny sometimes but also knowing how horrible the bullying was...I can't look at Chloe the same. Breaks my heart for Marinette as someone who has been bullied and has been in the shoes of Marinette's old friend.

I’m so surprised that the fandom still supports chole and blaming it in her mommy issues is no excuse for her actions. Chole has had many chances but never took them. Edit: My notifications 😭😭

Uhm. I dont know how I feel about this episode. Chloe is 100% irredeemable, I can say that, but I also get why chloe stans are saying how random this plot is ESPECIALLY because marinette has no resentment towards kim for what he did, seeing how shes totally cool with him in gamer, helped him in siren, and repeatedly gave him the monkey miraculous. I get the message, I was bullied sorta like this for 4 years myself, and as much as the old episodes kind of hint at this, it still seems extremely unexpected and kinda roughly worked into the episode.(basically saying I wouldve been eased into this ark a lot better if they started dropping hints about it). I dont wish for a chloe redemption ark anymore as that would be too problematic, all I wanna say is that I REALLLY wish they didnt hype me up in the season 2 finale, in ladybug (season 3 ep), and just between those periods in general, I loved seeing chloe grow and I especially loved the dynamic she added to the hero team, guess that plot will just have to be part of those good old days. 😞❤

I had wanted Chloe to get redeemed back in season 2. I’m disappointed that she didn’t, but I understand that she couldn’t be redeemed by this point in the series. I doubt the writers had this episode planned way ahead of time, although they did manage to fit it well into the story. I want say, to play devil’s advocate, I can see where Chloe stans are coming from. People should be allowed to enjoy watching whatever characters they find interesting, and when someone tells a fan that they are morally wrong for liking a character that’s done bad things, that leaves the fan with no choice but to defend the character. Too frequently, people wrap a fan’s morally with the characters they enjoy watching the most. Sometimes villains are just fun to watch! That doesn’t mean they should win or have done nothing wrong. That doesn’t mean people who like them are evil. I also wouldn’t be surprised if some fans relate to Chloe and want her to get better because that means they could get better, but that’s another issue. I honestly don’t think we should ever consider a kid or teenage to be beyond redemption, even when they’ve done bad things. Everyone deserves the chance to get better, and many people do get better after getting therapy or other mental health treatment.

Literally Derision explained why Marinette is the way she was with Adrien. Seriously I wish Sabrina had a spine to talk back and leave Chloe. Thank you for pointing out Mylene said a mom leaving was not an excuse because her mom left. Thank you for pointing out Zoe is nicer & she shares a mother with Chloe. This is not an excuse! Seriously her dad also needs to stop coddling her too

ppl really jump over hurdles to defend chloe yet they won’t try to sympathize with marinette at all💀💀

It hurts me knowing this character had emotional moments and was at time honest in front of ladybug and cat noir. I actually had hope for her, even shed a tear. How could she go from that, to being an even worse bully than she was before? How does that happen?

Is anyone talking about how hypocritical Chloé was at the end of the episode? She calls Adrien a traitor for disowning her, ignoring the fact that she caused the breakdown of their friendship by not keeping her promise to be nicer to others and proving he can't reason with her in "Queen Banana". To say nothing of the sheer hypocrisy of _Chloé_ of all people, the same girl who turned on Ladybug and Chat Noir and nearly handed the entire city to Hawk Moth simply because they denied her something that was never hers to begin with, calling *anyone* a traitor.

That's really true: because I remember getting bullied at only 10 years old- by a mean girl by the name of Jackie Griffin- whose actions reminded me of Chloe's- so message to anyone who watches this show. Don't Support Bullying.

"Chloé isn't a bully, she's an abuser" The truth has been spoken, and it's about time Chloé stans realize the true nature of this character. She's abusive, cruel, sadistic, dangerous and insensitive, just like Lila. There's a reason these two biatches have been getting along so well lately. Chloe is just less subtle and more violent in her attacks, she has the power of her father to escape the consequences of all her abusive acts. Chloé is an antagonist, a villain, and it's okay to like her as that. Good villains aren't always those with a tragic backstory and understandable motivations, sometimes villains can just be despicable people that are written to be hated, or characters with background that can explain why they behave a certain way, but doesn't excuse their lack of heart and humanity in the slightlest. I'm getting tired of people thinking Chloé is a great person deep inside who deserves the Bee Miraculous and that Marinette was unfair to her or that Chloé is justified in her horrible actions. The truth is that Chloé isn't a good person, and she chose to remain that way, even if people gave her the chance to become better. She was never interrested in being a hero or a better person, she just wanted the power of the Bee Miraculous and Ladybug's respect and attention and threw a tantrum when she could no longer have it. Just like you said, Chloé only ever show up kindness and decency as long as she could get something in return. So MiraculouslyLazy, thank you a lot for this video 😭

There are other problems with this episode then "just Chloe". I don’t care for Chloe anymore b/c she wasn’t meant to be a major character in miraculous ladybug to begin with. But I don’t understand why people are only focusing on Chloe when there’s other issues with this episode. This episode makes it seem like Marinette’s behavior towards Adrien was justified rather then helping her character grow. If this episode took place before the events in season 4 all of us would’ve sympathized with Marinette’s character more. And by the time season 4 comes into the play, us as the audience would know that she’s going to get the consequences of her actions like shown in the last episode of season 4. But I don’t sympathize with her because this episode shouldn’t be a episode that’s in SEASON 5. Miraculous has a huge problem with timing and the organization of episodes. Which can actually ruin the writing of the show and it’s characters. Please know that this is just my opinion and I’m speaking from a writers POV.

Thank you for actually understanding the plot. Chloe stans are after me.

The way I see it, Thomas Asscheek hated that people were still holding out hope for Chloe's possible redemption and made it his mission to make her as irredeemable as possible just out of spite. He doesn't have a creative bone in his body and only kept this terrible show running because of the sappy drama and the fact that the plot makes almost no progress across 4 seasons. Truly an awful show, but it's kind of like a train wreck that you just can't look away from because you have to see just how much worse it can keep getting.

I know that everything was written in, and I agree Marinette doesn't deserve to be hated, but why do you think people can't ignore canon after a certain point if they think the writing is bad?

The reason why Chloe when from bad to good to bad again it’s because the writers hated her I liked Chloe when she became good I was hoping that would change i like it when a character goes from bad to good I like that in shows and movies.

The reason i hate this episode isn't bcs of Chloe, but how it kills so many characters just to emphasize how bad she is. Here's a list: -Kim was humiliated by her, yet still calls her the most beautiful and funniest girl IN FRONT OF HIS GIRLFRIEND. Is this dude brain dead or something? -Mari was abused by her, yet for seasons, she's never shown to have any actual hostility towards her. They're portrayed as rivals, or just mutual dislike. It makes Mari looks stupid for ever acting kind and giving chances for her. Heck, she was even sad when Adrien was sad that Chloe was leaving in Malediktator. She was supposed to be the one who held a week long party bcs Chloe's finally gone -Adrien just now stood up against her, not for the countless times she's being a bad person. Heck, she publicly shows willing to get akumatized in Deflagration, and he said nothing about it? It makes him a simp who only grows spine when his gf is in trouble just to make us think like he's protective. No, it makes him an apathist until its convenient -Tom and Sabine becomes horrible parents for not even trying to change school for their daughter -Sabrina becomes a huge hypocrite bcs in Adoration, she has problem with stealing, but here she's willing, even enjoying, serving an abuser? -Im not gonna bother with the teachers. Ive seen dead rats with more competency than they ever have So yeah, definitely the second worst episode ever. This has been my opinion, if you disagree, leave a reply, id like to see someone else's perspective

I hate what the writers have done to Chloe. There was major potential back in season two for redemption. Now it's just sickening to watch how much they've ruined her.

For me I LOVED this episode. Not only does it show more from Marinette other than her love life but we also see how bullying can really be. Teachers won't do anything, other students are afraid to stand up for the bullied person and how it can affect even after really long time after the bullying has ended. Yes I know this show is bad but I think it's so bad that it's good 💀 And this episode captured it perfectly and finally some good writing

I feeled so sorry for Marinette because i was bullied myself in my old school 😔

No, chloe is redemable but the writters aka astruc keep asasinatele her, and no is not serious topic since they retcon the events of season one so they can make chloe's assasination even more, and yet kim is still an miraculouse holder after everything he has done?

Imagine you have 2 characters as antogonists in a show: -One of these 2 characters is an abuser father that abuses his son, locked him in a mansion for 14 years, never spends time with him nor plans anything for his birthdays and constently tries to control absolutely every single aspect of his life, but is also a LITTERAL FREAKING TERRORIST who causes destruction in all of Paris, puts in danger innocent people (including his son and his friends) and is willing to sacrifice countless lives for a selfish purpose -The other character is Chloe Bourgeois Guess which one of these characters had a redemption in the end and which one is seen as the iredeemable monster?

So Chloe's redemption arc is impossible, but Andre who broke the law (Being mayor) and gave bribes is cool? Same with Gabriel, their arcs show that Thomas's standards are broken and it makes it even more clear that what they did with Chloe is just not a funny joke

At least Chloe's English VA is nice... I feel for Chloe stans/fans who wanted Chloe to be redeemed and do good. If only the other characters could put the effort to try and help Chloe steer in the right direction, learn the error of her ways. Chloe couldn't be all that bad despite how the writers make her as... Sadly, Chloe is just created to be hated (by Thomas and/or others on the show). It'd been best if Thomas never grant Chloe a Miraculous in the first place if she wasn't gonna be redeemed... Queen Bee was cool and Chloe once resisted an Akuma/Hawkmoth at one point but was it genuine or was it for her selfish reasons? It a shame the people (her classmates, especially Adrien) she once knew have decided to abandon her. Her character is now sadly a mess and I guess it's best if Chloe disappears... unless she somehow finds enlightenment and learn from her mistakes and try to be a better person. I won't give up on Chloe no matter how the writers would/will portray her as in future episodes/season(s). I hope Chloe gets genuine redemption down the road... She NEEDS help... She NEEDS SOMEONE to help her see the light, see the error of her ways... Is Chloe perfect? NO. Neither are the other characters... If Marinette or Adrien or anyone care enough to give Chloe another shot and help her, that'd be great. Otherwise, it's best for the characters to move on without Chloe. Then someone else may take her place and be worse than her... You can't have the protagonist without the antagonist... To all the fans of Chloe, I HOPE she gets redeemed for your sake, but it's up to Thomas and the writers on that... We'll see how he portray Chloe in future episodes... Have a Miraculous day, everyone and feel free to add your two cents/opinion(s).

No matter how much I watch this episode I will always say that the trauma of the pool is meaningless and that it was only done to make Chloe irredeemable, Ah, but a dad crazier than the Joker can have redemption. What's wrong with you, Thomas!?

honestly it feels like they portrayed her even worse to try to stamp out any of the redeemable aspects or at least complex in the past even though theway mari reacted to chloe in origin was bad but never hinted at it being THIS bad. so part of me is frusterated that they made chloe even worse...mostly because it kindof negates alot of the lessons or aspects in the earlier seasons..... but another part knows this is what we have now and people trying to defend her after this episode need to accept this IS now a canon part of her. though the fuck didthey do to kim? kim ws getting better and him refering to chloe like that infront of his girlfriend when he has been over chloe since season 1 felt WEIRD. though i'm even more confused because it feels like some stuff contradicted this in previous episodes. but its just so bad how can people defend thischloe after this

I honestly hated Chloe since the beginning, her life is no excuse for her actions. And you can fight me on that.

I honestly disagree, I know from the beginning that Chloe wasn't going to change, it's obvious, because when she was on screen during her "redemptive moments" her behavior was so counterfeiting, personally I believe that some awful people can change as long as you're facing consequences and perceptions, unless your self-deluded, delusional, irredeemable or entitled, you didn't reasonably explain why it doesn't excuse her, I'm ok with Chloe being like this but she came so far and yet so wasted, she could have been a good opportunity for Astruc to enhance the show, Chloe's ruined redeemable occasions are the exact reason the fanbase and show is downgrading, there are multiple characters who haven't changed, take Toy Story 3 for an example of this scenario, my main problems lies with how it was legitimately withdrawled, Chloe being irredeemable is ok, but I don't enjoy the mostly because of her character (she's annoying for the most) however the complicated part is that the writers keep constantly reminding the Chloe fans that she will never change, using the "we thought you'd change" -cleche, they keep inevitably rubbing it in the EI audiences that she can never change, they keep constantly exploiting, to hurt the audiences feeling, people criticizing them for being upset about her redemption is not helping, I'd file this as practical entitlement, I personally think some of you people should actually realize the BS Thomas Astruc and his shitcatastrophe crew are about, Thomas is an absolute manchild, he's practically blocked anyone who's made a point, or people who have suggested, defended or "opinion-ized" things for him have also been blocked, by this point Thomas is Entitled aswell, baffling that people are criticizing the Chloe fans for not understanding the plot and insulting Astruc and his crew, while in the process not trying to empathize/understand with the IE Chloe fans and insulting them aswell, who's behavior is even worse, seriously, you can't call someone delusions and ridiculous while defining those exact words, y'all are literally treating the Chloe fans like Monsters while being an Entitled Monster(viewpoint), Baffling that people are saying Chloe's Traumatic/Child Neglectful past isn't a good justification for her actions, but they're saying Marinette's Traumatic/Bullying past is a clear justification for her actions.

4:39 it's so ironically funny to me how this scene was shown I'm no chloe stan but damn was season 2 a ride and I was reallyyy hoping for Chloe to get a redemption arc because like in the episode zombizou she had POTENTIAL to be redeemed but unfortunately it was thrown away.. 5:26 as someone who has a "friend" like this, I agree so much to your statement like what you said with Mylene, just because your mom abandoned you, doesn't give you the excuse to be bratty and selfish. Although it does depend on your environment because even if Mylene didn't grew up without a mom, she still had a loving father. Chloe on the other hand was spoiled to death and was never given any actual love and/or discipline by Andre. 6:17 I might seem offended but not really so tell me why is my dislike for both girls stupid? This show is such a trainwreck and I just like to laugh at how stupid the writing for the show is. 6:37 same with Chloe and by the time people called her out on her ways, she was already too bratty and uncaring to listen to them. Andre should be a better father instead of just giving Chloe what she wants 6:48 again I was really disappointed when Chloe wasn't redeemed she honestly seem to actually care for ms bustier :(( (and for sabrina in that scene in the episode ladybug)

and honestly this is why i like fanfiction more than the show sometimes - th*mas took Chloe way too far now. She had been on such a good arc that it just crashed and burned. i feel like each episode makes me hate someone who was my favorite character in the beginning

Me personally Mari’s backstory should have came up in the earlier seasons. Now that we know that Mari’s stalking isn’t just a joke, it should have been a character Arc for her so she can actually have develop and make her have a healthy relationship with Adrian and not just an obsessive one. It been like 5 seasons and I don’t really care if she develops anymore because my patience is gone. And for Chloe I think she is the best character ( seasons 1&2 ) because at the time she was interesting.She had a backstory that explains her behaviors.Even if Chloe was never meant to be redeem I still wish she was more relevant to the plot. Because her whole Arc seemed like a big waste of time to me.

I’m just disappointed they didn’t go through with her redemption arc because she could have been so much more! It was all right there and it could have brought a more interesting dynamic with Zoe! In the episode despair bear I could see glimpses of possible redemption and it excites me not because I think she has to have redemption but because it could have brought a different take on things, as I am honestly getting tired of the stereotypical bully! I am not a Chloe stan, but season 3 did disappoint because it did kind of feel like they just chucked whatever small fragments of interesting character growth out the window! Honestly, I would be fine with her staying as an antagonist, just make her actually have a more complicated motive besides being the stereotypical bully. Evil or not you don’t want to question why they are even there any more! I am not trying to excuse her horrible twisted actions, I am just disappointed in her. Anyways, great video as always!❤️🤩

I feel so bad for Marinette and what's she's gone through and Chloe should never be forgiven for what she told Kim to do its so sad😭

Chloe is really an awful person, I feel bad for Marinette, and that was very sad about what happened in the flashback. Chloe should be a lot of trouble for everything.

You know what ? I'm just going to pretend this episode never existed in the first place. I just want to jump off a cliff when I see Chloe on-screen in Season 5. Her character is just horrible and not funny anymore like in Season 1 and 2 where her redemption was just incredibly well-written and touching. And Kim. They just ruined his character and made him say "Chloe is the prettiest and funniest girl in the world" in front OF HIS FUCKING GIRLFRIEND !!! And anyway,why did Marinette trust Chloe with the bee miraculous in the first place ? Didn't Chloe humiliate her very badly to the point of trauma ??? OOOOH YES,THEY CAME UP WITH THIS IDEA JUST TO WORSEN CHLOE AND EXCUSE STALKERNETTE'S WEIRD BEHAVIOUR. And...ugh...The inconsistency...How did Marinette not get scared in the Mr.Pigeon 72 episode...oh yeah I remember,the writers never intended to make that in the first place... SHITTIEST EPISODE EVER. (Excluding two-partners such as Miracle Queen and The last day).

The double standards of the fandom : Me : Chloe bullied her classmates because she didn’t receive enough love from her mom and betrayed ladybug because she was manipulated by Hawk moth and felt abandoned by her The fandom : Idc that’s not an excuse she’s still a horrible person ! Me : Felix tried to SA ladybug and betrayed her for absolutely no reason by giving all the miraculouses to Gabriel which caused many damages in season 5 The fandom : He is like that because of his father ! Me : What ???? 🤨

I ain't blaming her mommy issues, im not defending that what she did wasn't bad, and I'm definitely not saying she isn't a bully. But if they put this episode earlier then Astruc's goal of people hating her would've happened easier. And if they wanted us to hate her in the first place then why bother making lovable and making us connect to her? I point my finger at the writers. Honestly for me Miraculous ended at season 2. My canon is that chloe became part of the team and actually learned something and apologized to marinette for everything she did and tries her best to make up for it.

I mean, bullying is abuse so....

Mylene's Mom Abandoned Her and Her Dad? How Sad. #RespectForMylene #JusticeForChloe :(

It really makes my blood boil when people say chloes mom is to blame Yes Audrey neglecting her may have been a reason she’s turned out like that but, Chloe is Chloe She’s her own person her own character with her own decisions only SHE is to blame for what she has done. Chloes mom has supported her bad behavior and will literally abandon you if you’re not cruel and mean so I do understand why she turned out like that BUT that doesn’t justify what she has done!! Period.

Chloe has one outstanding thing going for her...... . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . She's not Bob Roth.

And even if Marinette was also the worst person ever you don’t do that to someone you don’t act like that

I initially wanted a hole to redeem herself back in season two but I never thought her abandonment justified her actions.

Chloe is the reason why marinette can’t confess her feelings to adrien because of Kim pranking Mari

My sister was an a hospital recently, and I don’t use that as an excuse to bully people

Now, I still like Chloe, but before some people start attacking me because of it- I only want to know more about her character arc, instead of her getting attacked in every single episode. Season 2 still holds onto me, so this episode still doesn’t make me dislike her. Now don’t get me wrong, I sympathize with Marinette all the way, but there were some points that the episode made that confused me or was a downright hurtful message. Like that whole scene with Mylene and Rose irritated me because just because you were raised to a mother who neglected her, doesn’t mean they should move on from it the same way. And then there’s the finger pointing on Chloe because of Marinette’s stalker antics-

Chloe is even mean to her family

I don't think liking Chloe is wrong, after all villains are important when it comes to stories as they move the plot forward and create interesting situations. Liking a character =/= approving their actions/personality. That being said, I don't really like Chloe myself, imo she's just annoying and I don't enjoy episodes that are centered on her

I hate chl#e so much

Honestly I wish Chloe wasn’t hated by Thomas like it doesn’t make sense that she had the best redemption arc she’s a bad person I can say that but the writers literally made Chloe a 15 year old girl being un redemptional and be a terrible person in her redemption arc she was trying I’m not saying that Chloe shouldn’t be hated it’s just that the writing doesn’t make sense also hating on marrinete isn’t unreasonable I mean I get she has trauma BUT SHES A LITERAL STALKER she broke laws I know Chloe has done bad things and Marrinete did too but keep in mind people can change Also keep in mind because of Marrinetes obsession with Adrien she lost the Miraculous THE MOST POWERFUL ONE also I know that Chloe made sides with hawk moth but keep in mind she’s a child she can be easily inspired by something that gives her what she wants So basically what I’m saying is that nobody can be irredeemable neither Marrinete nor Chloe I just don’t get why everybody justifies Marrinetes actions but not Chloe also I know Chloe did bad things but I won’t accept anything bad about Chloe after season 3 because after that all of Chloes bad actions were so obvious that it was hate from Thomas

I have a similar experience as marinette in G6 when I liked a boy and this is totally relatable, the bully locked me in a belcony (using a trolley school bag from another person) near the classroom for my next class, WITH MY CRUSH. She made such a large racket that the whole class was attracted to the noise. I've reported her to the deans but it didn't work, and for the next few years she is annoying me until she was transferd to another school. Chloe reminded me of her and yes, I agree that chloe isn't redemptable

So I’m writing this knowing the ending of some of the miraculous s 5 episodes. Don’t read if you don’t wanna be spoiled, but my point is that in one of these future episodes Marinette would be at one of her lowest points and thinking Chloe got the high ground, she tries to bully and belittle Mari. This only backfires and Chloe is left alone, being told how ridiculous she really is, she starts to cry. Now I don’t know all the episodes this was spoiled to me but I really hope Chloe loses Sabrina and goes to NY with Audrey and she understands what it feels like to be truly alone. This is the only way I see Chloe being redeemed

From the moment that I started watching I could relate to Marinette. In my opinion they really captured the way that trauma can come out sometimes. I really could feel marinettes anxiety and panic, although I've never been bullied.

You know what's funny about Derision. It makes Mr. Pigeon 72 look even worse on Marinette's end.

And let's not forget how Chloe treats Sabrina, she basically bullied the girl into carrying out the things that under normal circumstances, Sabrina wouldn't agree to do, and Sabrina finally breaks and calls Marinette about everything that Chloe has used her to do. It showed that Chloe is manipulative, she will force people to do what she wants, this way she not only gets to satisfy her unhealthy desire to see other people suffer, she also have a way to get out of everything she did. When she bullies people to a point they need to see the principal, it was never Chloe who is deemed to be responsible, and I think that played into the part of why she can't have a redemption arc. It's best to teach children that they need to be responsible for their own actions when they're young, they're like 15 in this show, and Chloe has been bullying Marinette for 3 years, that could only mean that Chloe started Marinette's trauma when they were 12, just finished elementary school and entering middle school. And she's still bullying Marinette every single chance she gets, like that's a lot of chances for the next 3 years of high school they need to go through, I imagine that she's never been deemed responsible for the 3 years period prior to entering high school, and that's the reason why she deemed the behaviors she display as acceptable because no one in the last 3 years had actually gotten through to her about her behaviors were not okay. I'm not saying that Marinette stalking Adrien is an okay thing to do, like I wish Alya was there to sort out Marinette's love problems so she didn't turn into a stalker like she did. But we actually see Marinette sort things out with Alya's help and is finally able to spend time with Adrien without stalking him. That's a big improvement. That's the difference between Marinette and Chloe. When other people do things that are not okay, they eventually learned how to be a decent human being, learning from their mistakes and become a better person, Chloe never realized her mistakes, she took the chances others give her as something they're supposed to give her. But other people gave her chances because they believed that she could change for the better and out of the kindness of their heart, not because they're supposed to give her second chances again and again. Bullying is no joke, I heard a story that the root cause of a 15 year boy's death was bullying, that's also the reason why I'm really concerned when my little sister tells me that a lot of people don't like one particular person in the class because that's going into the dangerous territory of potentially bullying, and I don't want any kid to experience that. In one of the episodes, Chloe said that she doesn't love anyone, and then the creators pointed out with the next line that Chloe only loves herself, I think that pretty much sums up her character.

I honestly thought in season 3 that chloe MAY become a good person but BOY WAS I WRONG! she dosent deserve to be forgiven. I am glad Adrien finally saw through her and realised what a big brat she is

Chloe almost committed murder on Marionette! And used Kim do it! No redemption arc for Chloe! At…All!!!!!!!!!

I would like to know what Chloe's issue is with Birthdays one day, it seems to all date back to her 8th Birthday what ever it was that made her loose the plot.

FOR REAL everyone is trying to defend her like she deserves a redemption arch. LIKE NO! SHE DOES NOT

If there’s one thing that episode taught me, it’s that there are various ways to defeat toxicity, and one of them is avoidance or ignorance…

okay i have not seen this ep yet but i did see the two part ep the Kwamis' Choice and they are good.

I'm glad Adrien finally ended his friendship with Chloe and I bet that once everyone finds out they will hate her, maybe even have her banned from politics and from her running mayor

Bro this is literally what I was ranting about the whole show finally someone talked about this!!! U just got a new sub 😀

In season three I thought she could finally good but that episode crushed my dreams😭😭

Yep, you’re right, she’s nutso!

Derision hit me so hard. I have severe anxiety caused by a traumatic event, not unlike Marinette. Except I go into psychogenic seizures when I’m reminded or triggered. It’s caused me to avoid all sorts of things, just like Marinette. Seeing Adrien stand up for her like that felt like he was standing up for me too. Stop victim blaming. There are so many elements that make a person who they are, parentage is just one of them. Genetics, personal desires, past experiences. At the end of the day, Chloe has made her decisions. She has been given so many chances to change, but she never took any of them genuinely. There comes a point where a person has to take accountability for their own actions. I don’t blame my parents or my traumatic experiences for everything I do wrong.

Everyone asking why Gabriel is redeemable and Chloe the real question is why Plagg is ok and Chloe isn’t I know he is way more likesble and overall a nice guy and his sass if cool but in the episode style queen it’s stated he killed the dinisiars and sunk Atlantis in the episode miracle queen he previously called the dinosaurs wusses and in deflagration it’s stated he did it on purpose because they made fun of him so bullying Simone all her life making people miserable and selling out your city to an evil terrorist for power is worse than destroying an entire planet or more appropriate making it unlivable as well as an island of humans and feeling no remorse for it calling them wusses and casually brushing it off explain.that to me

After watching this episode I hate chole more. Than I use to and it's just my opinion why I don't like chole but I use to think she may change but now I'm more mad at her

Any single plus point left for Chloe disappeared after this episode. She's so much disgusting. She has that abusive genetics of her equally abusive mother. The way she treats Sabrina. The way she treats her Father. She's just the worst!!! Lila is a master manipulator who uses others for her advantage like Scar, while Chloe is narcissistic like Gaston. And both are villains. And now they're working together they're even horrible. The only thing is while everybody in Marinette's class hates Chloe they r blinded by Lila. Even Zoe has given this half sister of her's a piece of her own mind. Bullies like Chloe seek sympathy justifying their actions. That's the difference between Marinette and Chloe. Marinette doesn't justify her flaws. Also remember even after she became Queen Bee her behaviour towards others didn't change. Her craving for popularity as a heroine ultimately became the obvious. She couldn't control her urge to be in control. While Tikki had a confidence boost in Marinette and Plagg gave Adrien courage to speak his mind and break free, none of that influence seem to affect Chloe's behaviour. And she gets excused no matter how horrible her actions r as she's the Mayors daughter. She keeps on hurting others with no remorse. The only redemption she might hv is if her father looses the elections and nobody gives a tuppence about her.

5:20 you are right at this point, I only hate one question (no hate for you btw) in zombiez zu her teacher got a gift, but what did chloe get?

What I will say about Marinette's "stalking" is that most of the time she is influenced by her friends, sometimes even outright forced. Marinette has said many times that she didn't want to, or she was nervous, and she was ignored and then blamed for the consequences that happened. Alya is the MAIN CULPRIT in this, I mean she tried to force Marinette into an elevator with Adrien despite her saying NO. Even Rose told her that they wouldn't hang out with her if she didn't give him a gift, meaning they'd ice her out. That's so out of pocket and there's so many times that she wanted to give up on Adrien and tried and was literally dragged back into liking him because of others.

This might be a bit controversial, but the problem isn't that Chloe's character is beyond redemption. It's that the producer gave away the biggest spoiler on her character development. By declaring her irredeemable, we had nothing to look forward to when it came to Chloe's actions. Because of this episode, we finally understood Marinette's behaviour towards her love interests, but are we honestly surprised by Chloe's past actions? I lost my moment of 'Wow, she's beyond saving!' Just 'cause I read a tweet a few years ago.. (I still love his work.. and I'm also staying away from personal Twitter accounts of writers/producers.)

I’m a miraculous fan, but I like mari, cuz she so kind. Chloe has gotten to many chances she broken em, and she’s also friends with lila who apparently is back. I like mari better then Chloe, even Sabrina’s face at the end of that one looked mad at Chloe.

Btw is wise kidd a girl or a boy?

I never thought she would go that far. Now we know why Marinette stammers a lot near Adrien was because of her first heartbreak from Kim and the trauma she had to go through that Chloe caused. Adrien didn’t know but now he knows and ended his friendship with Chloe. He chose Marinette over Chloe’s friendship. I knew Chloe would end up all alone one day because her attitude is beyond selfish like her mom. Seeing people suffer is her entertainment but to us it’s not. She really can’t redeem herself. She thinks she has power over everything but we don’t need power to fight, it’s support and determination that gives us strength to take back everything from abusers. In the end, she lost everything. She’s the one who is utterly ridiculous because she has no sense or morality, maturity, or awareness. She knew Lila was a liar but chose to team up with her, at the cost of Sabrina ending her friendship with her. Chloe lost everything and there’s no repair because the damage is already done. She said it herself, she doesn’t care about forgiveness but eventually she will o e day and no will forgive her. Adrien gave her multiple chances but she blew it off. There’s no going back. Every villain she teams up with like Monarch and Lila, they use her as her pawn, not to help her get what she wants.

I hate how people compare Marinette with Chloé by saying "Marinette is a pick me, she's annoying, she's a stalker, she was awful with Chloé when she was ladybug" this makes my blood boil, and anyway Marinette is not a stalker in my opinion, she's more an obsessive person. If Marinette ever ends in court of law they'll probably recommend her therapy and her parents would get a fine and have to research gabriel if he decides to sue them Anyway besides the extremely obsessive things she has done(which I don't excuse) she's really an amazing person, she always helps others, and when she does something bad she actually realizes it and always apologizes (like with Kagami) I'll never stop defending her

It shocks and amazes me how people still defend her and overlook her actions saying thst she has done not that much wrong

Ok yes! good job

On further reflection on this I really think you can push Kim, Marinette and Chloe to the side, ignore Socqueline and Sabrina and shake your head at plot inconsistencies and such. You will be left with one thing which is how "in a bubble" Paris is now, in Season One it felt more like Paris, now Paris feels more like a city state with the office of the president & other politicians not even existing. The Mayor doesn't even really have a P.A.... (he really should). Looking at What Nadia said in Action she seems to imply that there is so much of a stranglehold on control that no one can say anything which is why the Mayor seemed to be able to get away with anything, and why Chloe wasn't prosecuted for endangering a train etc.. I guess allowing Chloe to be a terror to the teachers (now) is one of those things the show just does. But as I often point out it is going to look really strange to someone who discovers the show in Season 4 or 5 and then starts from the beginning they will see Chloe doing nothing much to anyone. I can see why people accuse all of this to it being just Thomas poisoning the well, and making it harder for someone else to use Chloe effectively, which is really disrespectful to the new writers after he's being made step back. He's basically Jake Skywalkered Chloe and well, at least he didn't have her plane crash. Ironically as much as some people see Chloe only as a surface issue... there is still the undertone that she's a girl who's had everything taken from her (somewhat unfairly) & that actually does leave somewhere to go with her. For example Luka still has not met her properly. That said I do think they took the best written character in the show and turned her into the worst written one just to be petty to the people who like her, and as a secondary reason perhaps Marinette's behaviour got so bad they had to raise Chloe's Level of villainy to keep her above Marinette. But No Thomas I don't forget Marinette fed her to her Mother and encouraged Chloe to be bad to bond with her (reprehensible mother) Chloe had a good(ish) role model in Ladybug and because she selfishly didn't want to deal with her she shoved her onto Audrey not caring that the cost of that to Chloe is her personal happiness, all her relationships and maybe even her soul. That is as bad as telling someone to date someone who you know was violent to their previous partner. So yeah by forcing Chloe onto Audrey it is Marinette that looks bad, as people need to remember Chloe is an obnoxious narcissistic Brat with Mommy and Daddy issues in Season One, she's someone who is trying her darnedest to be better and they just take it away from her. That makes the show look cruel. The show isn't very nice to Kagami either but at least it doesn't explode all her personal relationships completely when it does. Alya at least "cares enough" about Kagami to tell Marinette off when she's being cruel to her, but we have no idea what Alya things about what Marinette did to Chloe, she may never have told her, and Alya made a snap judgement about her "team mate" and never gave her a chance and that to be honest low key disgusts me. it is why this show sometimes give the impression it's racist against the blondes. Though what the heck I am supposed to make of their endless forgiveness for 'Mr. Genocide' & Matricide Felix. Yeah this show is happy to demonize a teenage bratty girl with like 1 friend who gets treated like crap by most people now, but who actually was kinda sweet on instagram, you could see she was "trying" to unlearn her bad behaviour. No one cared to help her with that though. It is the cynicism of the production and the way they did it,, I don't mind Chloe falling due to circumstances, neglect and missunderstandings I do however object to "Season Two" Chloe being needlessly Character assassinated as Thomas has no idea how to write a sympathetic antagonist, and wants to make excuses for Marinette's attrocious behaviour in a very lazy way I.e. by saying "Look Chloe's still worse". She beats up her partner and dehumanises and emasculates him. I've read a lot of Fan fiction and anyone writing based on Season 1 & 2 would have Marinette go ballistic if someone did anything like that to Cat Noir, but the show instead dehumanised and ruined Adrien too just to make Marinette look good, and then their only excuse is the rather pathetic one of That was Cat Noir not Adrien. So yeah Miraculous abusing the abused kids then repeatedly saying they are not abused they are privileged is just well more abuse. Fine if you want to give your characters challenges, But I would use a Star Trek analogy about what Data discovered about William Riker's innate personality type. That is what the show forgets, and changes out of short term convenience. If you need a character to be a jerk, then why not use Nathaniel as he's already acknowledged to be a bit of a jerk. This show, I swear will only make sense when it's eventually rebooted and written without Thomas having any involvement.

Chloe Stans are probably bullies themselves lmao

Y’all better keep the same energy for Felix

I likes it more when Chloe was a more complex character, she was still a bully, but she had some moments when she actually did surprisingly nice things, not everyone has to be pure good or evil, but now they just trying to make as horrible as they can, the show just got boring in general, it’s like characters never change there I agree that Chloe doesn’t deserve to be a hero, but what they’re doing with her character now is ridiculous (utterly ridiculous) Plus, I absolutely hate how characters like Felix, who used lies and manipulation to ruin his cousin’s life, get a redemption arc, but Chloe doesn’t deserve one People can change, this episode is literally a flashback over a year ago

this episode was terrible - its a lazy way to explain Marinette's entire character - its another kick in the gut to the fandom for telling them they're writing Chloe terribly - just doubling down on the poorly written character change by writing her as evil as possible, like even Lila would be shocked by this like what's the end point of writing Chloe like this - eventually loses everything sure, maybe homeless, maybe leaves the country, arrested, maybe but then what, Lila is obviously our next villain after hawkmoth but there's no internal issue in the dynamic without Chloe in their normal lives, where do u go with that when there's nothing there the intrigue they could of had on Chloe is completely dead and its depressing cause it doesn't do anything for the show also yeah her friend isn't much better, if marinette died in that fall she couldn't play victim - she actively helped knowing how bad it was and still pushed on, that's depressing really they're lucky this wasn't america or it be a shooting

Some of these comments are not it at all. People really be reaching into the back rooms to find redeeming qualities in Chloe. I saw someone speculating that marinette was manipulating Adrien into ending his friendship with Chloe. Smh 🤦‍♀️

I felt so sad for Marinette

Can you make a video about Sabrina? I feel a little annoyed that some people champion her for leaving Chole. Chole has been awful and encouraged Sabrina to do stuff that can get her arrested (breaking into Marinette's house) before season 5. She even took part in Marinette's misery without hesitation. She only fought back when she thought Lila was going to replace her. Can someone explain her actions?

Yea I don’t give a shit. What Chloé and Kim did was horrible yes and it was a shit prank. But that still doesn’t mean Marinette can be a gross fucking stalker, it’s a crime. I don’t care if she’s got trauma it gives her no excuse. Plus I don’t think it makes sense at all. She’s been a creep since day one, she’s been around the pool, Kim and Chloé yet she never showed signs of trauma. This episode was only placed because Fucking Thomas couldn’t bare to see Mary sue Marinette, his “Golden Child” get hate on. He also just wants people to hate on Chloé, which a good amount of people don’t actually hate her. Me being one of them who actually love Chloé.

Please can everyone remember that Soqualine got expelled because of her and she missed prom and that it will be on her pernament record

I never liked Chloe because if anyone actually payed attention to season 1 - season 5 episode 10 Chloe had mentioned HERSELF that Mari used to have to ask for her permission to even come to school. Mari has been saying that Chloe has picked on her for years. I’m proud to say I NEVER liked Chloe even as a Miraculous holder. She has been a bulky since DAY 1. But let’s talk about something real fast no one ever talks about, Sabrina EQUALLY bullied her. Not directly but she helped Chole torment Marinette to protect her own skin. Half the time, if she didn’t tell Chloe what Mari was doing or where she was, Mari wouldn’t have been bullied so hard because chole is also a LAZY BULLY who won’t get her own hands dirty. She also said that Mari picked her clothes out of the trash. But yeah, anyways ! I love how you guys explained that Mari’s stalking is understandable but not okay and not equal to Chloe’s abuse !! 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾 very well done !

Do you think the writers just did this episode to say that Cloe was irredeemable? This episode was in season 5 and they didn’t even set it up.

it's 3 am so i figured it was the perfect time to watch this vid

You guys literally ate and left no crumbs at all well said!😌😏 Even though Marinette had been bullying 3 yrs. ago! then by the time she became a Ladybug, Chloe was given a chance to change. Like come to think of it, we could assume that Marinette would never even will given a chance to give Chloe a miraculous because of what she did to her in the past and THAT EXPLAINS Marinette see through that's NOT AN EXCUSE for someone giving a person chance but Chloe actually describe who she is. For someone like me who experienced got to be bully, I would say that episode literally makes me cry, I wanted to hug Marinette. Like that's even more harsh from what i've experienced. We should speak louder about this.♥️♥️