Finally, someone who is not gushing about the Tissot Powermatic 80 movement. Thank you so much for your honesty.

You are absolutely right. The watch industry is no better than others. Minimising input while maximising revenue. All wrapped up in a few warm words.

Plastic escape wheel, plastic pallet fork, plastic durability.... Personally, I think Tissot should use wood instead of plastic, which would be more environmentally friendly, and in addition, the watch would generate a nice supply of very fine sawdust to mop up any surplus moebius left hanging around the escapement.

There's several versions os the Powematico 80 movements and the plastic component is not present in all of them, such in the Ballade Cosc and Seastar.

Made a nice change from the usual watch content, wish there were more channels exposing this kind of cost cutting.

Because of the plastic escapement,I changed PRX to Hamilton Khaki auto😅

If you compare the plastic escapement of the Swatch 2840 - used in the pre-Sistem 51 - you will find exactly this pallet fork and escapement wheel. It isn't even new, it is old... And the major joke: The pallet fork needs lubrication, a special Moebius grease.

Potential Tissot customer...lost.😮

Wow really would not expect plastic from Tissot!! I’m almost as peeved as you Kalle 🤣 almost lol thanks for the vid.

ABSOLUTELY FASCINATING. I have had some Tissots with good results. Currently still have the NON-Powermatic Visodate with less power reserve but more smoothness regarding the second hand. I presume Tissot will explain away the plastic escapement as a weight-saving measure as well as a means to keep the cost to the consumer down. At least Hamilton spelled backwards is Notlimah which has no negative connotation.

I appreciate the insight into these kind of practices. Without digging further, the movement and its finishing looked so nice (even in the display case back). Is there any argument from a technical side for a plastic escapement, or is it just cost savings?

I have this watch in its original form, before the Powermatic 80. It keeps time better than my CHR Ward chronometer which was over double the price, as does my other Tissot (T Sport from 2010). Tissot are excellent watches - accurate and great value for money.

i knew about this but i feel conflicted. Personally i find le locle to be beautiful and i want it, but it had this issue. Any way to avoid / alleviate / aftermarket upgrade it?

I bought myself a somewhat similar Tissot, the T139407 A with a ETA 80.111 movement in it. Most likely I've got a bunch of plastic parts in it as well. Which does make me worry. I've recently put it on a timegrapher that I got (picking up the watchmaking hobby here in Utrecht 🙂), and it did run amazingly well. But will I be able to maintain it down the line? Part of the appeal of mechanical watches for me is their agelessness when maintained properly. Also these pieces can carry a lot of emotional value for people because they are bought sparingly and for special occasions. I bought mine for finishing my masters degree 😀. But I might have looked at other watches had I known about there being plastic parts in there (probably). It makes me trust the brand less...

I'm curious if the impulse jewel is plastic as well. Otherwise the ruby might slowly chew away at the pallet fork? Some plastics have very good abrasion qualities though. Also curious about the long term stability of the plastic it self.

Thank you for being honest as a professional in watchmaking.. because not everybody know about that "plastic" thing, and the advertising obviously not mentioning that thing very clear.. so, if we're not a watch enthusiast, maybe we didn't even notice about that problem in long term usage. That's also the reason I choose the green Tissot PRX 40mm in quartz version.. because for the price it's ask, I think it's worth the value.

The Swatch Group is killing it, literally. ‘Swiss Made’ has become a mockery, especially for entry-level watches!

I am quite happy to come across this video. I was interested in a watch with this movement but I knew it had some plastic parts which turned me off. You are the first one to actually show the plastic parts and you are right, it looks like a very cheap sell out and thus I will not buy a Tissot watch.

Thank you for touching this “great strategy” of such respected brand! I found such plastic escapement many many years ago on one of Chinese “no name movement”. It was strange, cheap and monstrous decision towards the client, just to sell the watch and forgot anything…. And now we see this in watches there engraved on the oscillating weight - 1853! For what?! Does it means they find a decision of the ages?

I have this watch. It works great, lovely piece. Plastic: Does it matter if a) it works well, and b) it has durability, c) it reduces wear? But yeah, your rage is palpable.

Is the ETA C26.111 that seems to be replacing the ETA 2671 in alot of ladies watches also have the same plastic parts? Can't find any info on it.

Happy to found your channel. Love the technical aspect of it. Could you maybe do a review of a L688 movement from Longines?

Wow! Thanks for the heads up. It's unbelievable, yet, believable.

Oh geez !!! 😮 plastic parts !!!! What going on with Tissot it’s a shame !! Thank you Kalle to show us this horrible things !!

I learned this a while ago and it completely blew me away! From one grumpy old man to another, it is just another step backward for them. We see again the slow and painful demise of a once great watchmaker. Excellent video my friend, people need to know what they are buying.

I believe the plastic has some amazing characteristics such as high hardness and low friction, i don't think it's a bad aspect, new materials are part of any engineer life. We need to see how it goes on the field. So far i think Tissot is doing pretty well if you consider the amount of PRX out there.

Thanks for this informative video! I just wish it could have been posted, and in my suggested videos before literally bought this exact watch a little over a year ago. It sucks that what I had thought was a nice watch, is actually a mere conveyance of a nice quality watch.

Great video, thank you for sharing. Truly incredible... I had my beloved Tissot PRX Powermatic 80 and I'm gutted about your finding.

Thanks for explaining the the movement issues. Please can you explain how likely these parts are to fail? Do you think that Tissot expect these watches or movements to be disposable ie just replace the movement rather than repair it? Many thanks

There’s a reason why Tissot spelled backwards is “Toss it”. They’ve been making bad decisions. I’ve seen it with the Swissmatic… a literal unserviceable movement because it’s glued together (no screws). What the actual hell.

They would call it high-tech carbon composite. It’s what makes the escapement ‘high-tech’. 😄 Thank you for sharing!

That's why I only collect vintage mechanical watches and it is a pleasure seeing you repair them

This is why the only new Tissot I have bought is the 1938 Chronometre. It still has a proper ETA2824-2, with the PROPER escapement, and COSC certified to boot!

It’s well known that the C07.111 has a plastic escapement. C07.6xx version has a regular escapement. C07.8xx version has a regular escapement plus a silicon balance spring. I agree, plastic pallet fork and escape wheel has no place in a Swiss movement. C07.1xx movements are considered disposable- the movement typically costs less than a service. All the auto Tissot PRX line has the plastic escapement. The Gentleman line has the regular escapement. I’m somewhat surprised to learn the plastic escapement (C07.1xx) is in the Le Locle line which is Tissot’s biggest seller worldwide. I’m not a fan of the line, which costs basically the same as the Gentleman. I guess the takeaway is be suspicious of a modified/updated 2824 ETA movement with 23 jewels lol (they are here to stay)

I have a seastar in for repair at the mo, the crown wont close and the rotor spins when you wind it after it has stopped. So see what happens when i get it back.

Hello Kalle, wonderful video. Big fan of your work, Christiaan Huygens would be proud! I sent you an urgent email, forgive me for pestering you about it here, but please let me know your thoughts as, well, time is of the essence. Thanks again and keep up the great work. Best regards, TGV

I gifted my stepfather the exact same watch and serviced it last year. Thankfully for him and me it was the previous 'upgraded lol' version and has a true eta 2824-2 inside 👍🏽 High tech escapement 😂

In many areas of engineering and manufacturing, "engineered plastics" are the right choice. This refers to plastics that are made with certain characteristics to high standards. They have known properties and pass rigorous testing. I don't know if that is the quality level of the material for these watch parts. In any case, I am a bit of a traditionalist about mechanical watches and feel these should be made from stainless steel or brass regardless of the plastics that are available. Keep in mind though that the use of plastics for some parts _may_ be a well-considered, engineering decision.

Can you tell us which powermatic 80 this is, as I understand it only some of the cheaper calibres use the plastic escapement.

Is it very different than the plastic parts in the 7750 to reduce friction and lubrication? Another question: can the escape wheel and pallet fork be swapped for the ones in the other iterations of the movement with 25 jewels? Another question: what is the lifespan of the parts-do they wear out or are they spec’d to last based on the forces they’re exposed to. The idea is that Tissot made plastic movements before they were part of Swatch and ETA has used these parts (polymer pallet fork and escape wheel) in the Swatch irony. They seem to keep working. Is it to save money or save on service requirements? How long do the parts last? The consumer ultimately has a strong influence since many for example think 28800 indicates finer whereas 21600 is inferior. What about haute horologerie where low beat is more the norm. Another common misinformation is that one can’t adjust the timekeeping as it’s adjusted with laser at the factory. BS. Carl pointed out the inertial weights and the free sprung balance are usually found on high end watches like Patek and Rolex. If it was cost saving why would they include the free sprung balance?

I have a PR100 Powermatic 80 with plastic escapement. I have had it for 2 years as my daily driver and currently runs at +2 sec/day. The most accurate watch I have owned. Yeah, same accuracy as an coaxial METAS Omega.

Questions: If you replaced those plastic parts with the traditional metal ones, would the watch run any better? You can test that yourself. Do you estimate that the plastic escapement will have a shorter or longer life than the traditional one? Why? If you could have a movement made of ANY metal or metals you choose, what metals would you choose, cost no object.

honestly thanks for shedding light on this movement lol im glad i have just the quartz prx now

Just a thought on this subject. I have two Omega Speedmasters. One is the broad arrow version and the other is what we often refer to as the Hesalilte sandwich. The broad arrow version has a Delrin brake and the sandwich has a metal one, presumably because you can see it. The reason I was told is because the Delrin version has better wear properties but then surely the brake in an Omega chronograph would get far less wear than an escapement. It still bothers me though when I think of a plastic part in my Speedmaster.

Sir...as an Aircraft Tech and engineer Ive noticed a huge lowering of quality from RR engines to airframe fitment (Doors falling off at 17K feet). Im retired now, my peers always wanted to do quality work to maintain Airworthiness but employees today are more interested in their tick tock then setting engine core bearing tolerances.

I bought same watch year ago, later realizing that it has plastic escapement. Regret it immediately. Plus some watch makers said that it can't be regulated, some say it can be regulated but it is very difficult. So can it be regulated and fully serviced? Thank you. Glad I've found your channel.

I heard that only the PRX powermatic had this movement in it and other tissot powermatic branded watches had a better version that did not use plastic for these parts but this shows that is not the case. Is the powermatic in the gentleman plastic as well? Because I was told it was not by a retailer when buying it. I also have a PRX powermatic and knew buying it that it had the plastic parts which did cause me to think should I still buy it but it fits me well and i went ahead. Think is how much do they even save doing this? and is there any other reason why? other than cost. As a watchmaker can you tell if these plastic parts can be replaced with normal metal ones? I was hoping in the future when I service mine I would just change out those parts.

Great video! I got into watches a couple years ago and at the time almost bought the Le Locle, and later did end up buying a Hamilton Khaki which also uses a Powermatic movement. I have heard that the plastic components are not found in Hamilton but I’ve never really looked into it. Either way very interesting.

thanks for this wonderful insight. It's incredible how managers risk destroying a company taking such stupid decisions. I hope you'll expose more of them.

C'est dans l'air du temps, on produit à bas coût et on vend cher, c'est de l'argent facile et une vision à très court terme. Les chinois pendant ce temps progressent tous les jours... Mais je ne suis qu'un petit horloger de province sans grande expérience.

Hello, I am thinking of buying a Tissot chronograph with a C02.211 which has a plastic pallet form and escapement wheel. Provided it is cared for appropriately, do you think it is worth it?

I've heard claims that the powermatic basically IS an eta 2824 with a plastic escapement and that you can drop a 2824 escape wheel and pallet fork in it and it will basically be a nice movement. can anybody confirm this?

I hope this goes viral. Also if we don't buy their scrap then they will be forced to change.

Thank you Mister, for educating us.

What’s your thought on the Le Locle’s 3 bar water resistance rating? It’s my understanding restating that I shouldn’t swim in my Le Locle, but I’ve recently seen some info saying that watch makers may dismiss that and say it’s no big deal to swim in it.

I am new to learning about watches and looking into obtaining my first automatic watch. This video was an eye opener. Any recommendation on a first automatic watch?

If I want a bunch of plastic bits I'll buy a quartz

My understanding is that there are different grades of the powermatic movement with the metal parts 100% servicable. Also i really dont get why a diposable movement is that big a deal. If popping in a new one is cheaper than servicing by all means ill take the new movement.

I have that watch but mine is the Chronometer version with the 2824-2 not the Powermatic 80. I do have 3 watches with the Powermatic 80 though. I really like them and I hope they hold up.

Is this just the powermatic 80 movements or is this also in other movements for the swatch group (longlines, Hamilton, etc)

If you could check Rado, Mido, and Certina. I hope they do not have that plastic part.

This is why I’m keeping my 1973 Tissot chronograph PR516 the new stuff is not so good

I bought a PR100 on Jomashop for about 200USD + taxes and shipping to Europe. That Powermatic 80 version with the plastic fork. I have to say, I was very positively suprised by the quality of the watch for that price, it was far better than a Seiko 5 costing the same. Even with the exhibition case, the calibre looks decent, comparing to the Seiko 7S26. I dont mind having plastic parts for such a nice watch for that price. Also, the accuracy of watch is on the COSC level, there was even a series of PR100 for less then 250USD with the certificate - same as Tudor :D In my opinion, Tissot and the Swatch is trying to do some real life testing or maybe experiments with the large amount of low-tier watches :-) I dont mind, for that price, it makes sense, on the other hand, I would not pay the full price for Powermatic 80 in PRX (like - 800 USD in Europe). Not speaking about that Sistem51 in the Swatchplain. On the other hand, I was able to service my Seikos for very small amount of money, and I would doubt, if a standard service is even possible with the Plastomatic... But its still running well and I did not heard any actual complaints about the quality of plastick P80s, yet. Unlike for the infamous sistem51, which seems to be piece of garbage about even 1 year of usage...

I was aware of this but good to see it 'in the plastic'! This must be a Swatch Group corporate decision I think. Personally I would rather have a metal escapement and shorter power reserve but it is not a deal breaker at this price point and unlikely to cause many issues. Plastic parts are replacing metal in most things now to save cost, weight etc., all out of sight and out of mind. These watches are not cheap as you say but still relatively affordable and as such some corners will be cut. How are slightly more expensive brands like Hamilton and much more expensive brands like Rado which also use this movement explaining themselves?

A commenter on one of the reviews posted the below previously. I had understood the plastic parts were one of the features of the specific movement. The rate is adjustable by adjusting the eccentric screw as it's a free sprung balance. The plastic part is a Nivachron hairspring that was co-developed with swatch group and APRP, with that it made the watch anti-magnetic, and pallet fork with the escape wheel made out of the composite, it createsless friction and less impact. You know good things for a hairspring. C07 movements are highly serviceable, so it's not just throwaway movement, they use special lubricant compared to the common swiss lever 9415 oil which if other watchmaker out there have the proper lubricant they could fix this watch too. They exchange the movement so the turn around time of servicing is faster while the old movement is sent to Switzerland to be serviced.

This movement is part of a family of 3 movement Tissot is using. You have the C07.111, the C07.601 and the C07.811. The 111 comes with 23 jewels and the 'high tech escapement' without the 2 pallet fork jewels, hence 23. The 601 uses normal materials, the 811 has a silicon hairspring. I personally checked. I have the 811 version, on which, so far, I do not have any problems. I personally think that plastic parts in a watch are a no-no, however, there are a lot of Seikos using plastic stuff on places Seiko says improves the function of the watch. Whilst that might be the case, in this specific case, I have to agree with Kalle: This is bordering on pure fraud, is misleading, and by no means are these parts anywhere near 'high tech'. I have to say, I am glad I bought the part which is not containing the plastic, because all in all, and Kalle also mentions this, the movement itself based on the ETA 2824-2 is a solid movement

With the high tech escapement. All parts plastic is there any lubrication?

Nice video! So, which you recommended like 'ok' auto-machine swiss and japan made? Thanks!

The plastic parts (escape wheel & pallet fork) only apply to the Tissot PRX Powermatic 80 watch, which carries a C07.111 movement (23 juwels). The new Tissot Gentlemen Powermatic 80 watch has a C07.811 movement with all metal parts, a silicon balance spring and 25 juwels.

Hi and thank you for your work. I've heard quite recently about this issue. I've also heard that, despite the fact that both brands are under the same umbrella (Swatch Group), Hamilton's H10 doesn't feature plastic parts, unlike Tissot's Powermatic 80. If you've got the opportunity to disassemble one, I'd be very happy to know if it's true. Best regards.

My wife bought me a PRX Powermatic 80 as an anniversary present two years ago and it keeps excellent time, within 2 seconds fast per day. However this watch has sentimental value and when this plastic movement wears out is it possible to substitute this eta movement with an eta2824? Presumably they are the same size with same date wheel etc and will case similarly or perhaps not?

I'm planning to buy a tissot excelence 18k gold with ETA caliber 2892-A2 ND. Is this a good choice? Thanks in advance!

The beauty of quartz confirmed.

Not only the pallet fork but also the escape wheel is plastic!! nevertheless I do find it interesting that this escapement is exactly the same as the one found in the Tissot 2270 from the ‘70s (all plastic but the balance wheel) found in the “Astrolon”… Hey! at least this “high tech” escapement has some history 😂

I was thinking if getting this watch. Thank you for this. No more Tissot for me.

All this fuss about a plastic part lol 😂😂😂 I bought two PRX80s … by the time that plastic part wears out I’ll be worn out.

Hi, Thank you for getting direct to the truth. I was bragging about my Tissot and wondering whether the PRX 80 has a similar movement. If it is, I would really be very disappointed.

25 jewels powermatic 80 in Certina is no plastic parts hence 23 jewels plus 2 on escapement. .611 I believe it is

So I would like to know more about the real-world longevity of these. Is this plastic in fact wearing out? I see a lot of folks being offended that it's there, but I don't really see the proof that it is the failure point of these watches. And as for the watches being disposable, is anyone really repairing cheap Seiko movements that everyone swears by? When I've brought Seikos into watchmakers, they've said they'll replace rather than repairing the movement. I'm just not sure there's a world where anyone's Tissot movement would have been cost effective to repair.

Interesting, thanks 👍. I have avoided this movement, because I would find it difficult to regulate. I had heard there were plastic parts, but I didn't realise it was this bad!

Is it the same for their entire Automatic Range ? I've only started collecting recently and was looking at their Seastar 1000. T.i.a.

Hello, for this reason I bought a used Visodate with a 2836 and a Gentleman with quartz movement.

these are very old news - these movements have around 10years already and the plastic parts discussed in forums a tonn of times.

Let's hope they don't come up with the idea of building a plastic coaxial escapement. George Daniels, had turned in his grave. RIP.

Hi, so is it silicon or plastic? Is there anyway to test it to be sure? This movement has been in use for a number of years now, how is the feedback from custoners?

Also basically when you take the watch in for its periodic service, you’ll have to replace the pallet fork which probably only cost a few bucks. Not a big deal. There’s a reason why Tissots cost what they cost.

I thought it was public knowledge that the powermatic 80 had a plastic escapement.

Ive been wearing a prx pm80 since 2021 almost daily, and i have not had any issues with reliability or accuracy so far. Granted its nothing like my GS speingdrive, but imo my prx is a tough beater of a time piece, i really enjoy it.

Time will tell if the use of light weight low friction materials for the escapement is going to be a problem. Calling these parts "cheapo crap" may be a bit premature. The goal is low friction and light weight in order to extend the reserve which in return results in more sales. I have a Tissot Chemins des Tourelles with the Powermatic 80 movement and it has been accurate and durable for several years. Will it be repairable and serviceable for decades? Maybe, but the service may require replacement of the synthetic parts at some point. Let's remember that I paid $750.00 Canadian for this watch and not the $8-10,000.00 that a high end Rolex, Omega or others. You are entitled to your opinion of course but calling synthetic watch parts cheapo crap is a bit like calling synthetic oils cheapo crap because that is not what was used a hundred years ago. We mall know synthetic lubricants last much longer in watches than old fashioned oils. Is the Powermatic 80 a good movement? For the price I say definitely. Does it belong in a premium expensive watch? Perhaps not. At least not until the technology is more proven. A few hundred dollars for a service may simply involve cleaning the case and installing a new movement. What is wrong with that for an inexpensive watch. In the mean time my Tissot has been keeping time to with in 1 or 2 seconds per day for several years. I am not a watch collector or a watch snob. Just an average person that wanted a mechanical watch that keeps good time. I have achieved my goal.

I remember when Glock came out with a plastic pistol, now all the top firearms are polymer. People had a fit when cars came out with plastic bumpers, but now cars are 10x more safe. More than likely they took a part that if it didn't require servicing because it's basically self lubricating , the user would have a better watch experience between servicing ? I doubt those parts would save them much money. It's just the old guy in ya !

Apparently, the Tissot designers, or perhaps bean counters, are using "Hi Tech" in place of their own thoughts regarding the "future of watchmaking". I know this is what upsets Kalle, as he is a craftsman, not an accountant. And people that buy such watches want crafted watches, not something that makes a slightly higher bottom line. It's good to expose such things that are not in evidence at the sales counter. While there may be legitimate arguments to be made that 3D printed parts will be good for servicing watches, non-plastic pallet forks like we're used to aren't generally replaced that often. JMHO. Cheers.

Thank you for bringing this to our attention. You are a man of honour and integrity! Kind thoughts from Denmark.

The problem with powermatic 80 movement is plenty of variations. Entry level powermatic 80 is ending 111 - usually have plastic parts and 23 jewels. However version ending 6 or 8 doesn’t e.g. “Gold Gentlemen” or “Ballade”. I like what MIDO does with powermatic 80 movements, they only use versions with regular escapement and minimum 25 jewels (so version 6 and 8), then their regulate those movements to COSC standards and if needed modify it. Regards!

I was really wsnting a PRX automatic, but now I'm angry at the thought of spending that much money and getting plastic parts that will wear down. I personally think the PRX should have the exact movement as the gentleman with the silicium.

this watch and this colour are exactly what on my wrist right now lol.

I would prefer facts and data from a timegrapher and time between replacement at service intervals to emotional indignation. If the beat error, vibration, and energy consumption were less for nylon over metal, and the Nylon escapement lasts 3 service intervals or 10 years, with identical ETA 2824 movements, the nylon escapement is product improvement. Manufacturers choosing this material should be transparent about it. Nylon should not be substituted if it degrades performance or reasonable endurance expectations.

Thank you for showing us the real tissot watch, are all their movements the same or just that movement, what happens when the plastic wears out in a few years ????

Well it looks like a servicing may be half of the cost of my divers and Prx with this movement. Based on your findings, i may not service them when due. I will wear them less, however. It's disappointing to see and hear what you have found. I would not have bought had i had this info prior. Thank you for a great vid. Regards, Chris

Yes it's sad but in England Tissot has prices that make one wonder why they are so cheap. And you have shown us why !!

I dont get the point of most people calling it out and especially I dont understand this video. Sure I get Tissot probably could have made a more elegant solution than using plastic parts. But is the issue here that it is not "high tech", or that it just shouldnt have plastic? Because the powermatic 80 was designed to have a longer power reserve at a lower price. There are of course hi beat movements with higher power reserves but none in this price range except for the powermatic. It needs the plastic parts to reduce moment of inertia and to help the weaker beat rate to actually keep on beating. Someone in a youtube video tried swapping the fork and escape wheel out for genuine 2824 metal parts and it could not run sustained. I think its not justified that the powermatic 80 gets so much smack, although I agree it could have been solved more elegantly and that many powermatic 80 models are very expensive to use a mechanism like that, even though still not as expensive as hi beat high power reserve models.