I've been loving this subclass series. I'm not really good at evaluating what Makes a Subclass Good, but seeing things getting broken down mechanically is really neat to see.

This might not be the best place to put this, but I have been in the process of writing a homebrew class (hopefully for eventual publication), and I was wondering if any of the Dungeon Dudes cast or crew would be interested in having a preliminary look at it. I call it the Dragon Champion, and it's based on the idea of a player that has either chosen to serve a dragon of Chromatic, Metallic or Shadow nature, or has been bullied or dominated to do that dragon's bidding. It is a bit of a hefty read, so I understand if none of you are interested, but if anyone of you are, I'd be happy to email you a copy. Thanks for your time, and I'm loving the class rating videos!

@@natashasurvivallady8021 sounds like it should just be a warlock with a dragon as a patron.

It's cool, we're here fo your opinions. It's a nice feature that you compare them with the polls, but most of us wouldn't expect you to change the rankings based on them.

Where can I go to awnser the community poll?

You'll have to *delay* that fireball

@@DuBMaNiaK I'm readying the action until the next video lol

Seriously, my favorite cleric was a light cleric hill dwarf who took the heavy armor feat. Tons of HP, AC, and fireballs. A great feeling.

I kinda really wanna play an aaracokra light cleric. Get my Phoenix on.

@@villainvoice5143 Death from above! I dig it.

Ayy I’m currently warforged gunslinger/forge cleric

You get a 20 ac right off the bat!

I see your Warforged Forge Cleric and raise you a Dwarvenforged Forge Cleric (Dwarf-made Warforged modeled after Dwarves, including facial hair)

^ Sounds like a Dwemer weapon!

I have a Forge Cleric Warforged named Furnace. He is the product of warforged corpse, a group of college aged artisan guild students late on a project, and divine intervention from a god of the forge.

I took a one level dip into forge cleric as eldritch knight and it singlehandedly boosted my usefulness by a substantial amount. And Eldritch knight is already pretty decent.

I'm playing one right now. Im lvl 3... why do you think we are so powerful? Im curious about your play style...Any tips?

@@matizz8 You have access to very powerful abilities such as making a +1 weapon or armor at level 1 which is really nice, giving you alot of bulk combined with access to healing spells. You also become completely immune to fire damage at later levels which you can combine with a number of cool spells like heat metal making it do you can just grab and hold onto enemies dealing damage to them while you have your spirtual weapon beat the tar out of them also. for play style there's a couple of ways to do it, you can either make yourself a battle healer who is very hard to bring down or make yourself a front line fighter. Lastly you can make weapons and armor using random bits of metal (which incudes coins your carrying) and at later levels animate them to either do tasks (like checking rooms for traps) or simply protecting people by providing cover

Agreed; I'm playing one for a Greek mythology inspired campaign (Bronze Dragonborn), and despite rolling less than optimal stats (had a 14 in Wisdom to start), the DM is constantly frustrated by his inability to hit me for more than a few points of damage at a time, thanks to starting with +1 armor. Plus with Spiritual Weapon, Dragonborn lightning breath, and my presence on the front lines, I have tanked boss fights while the Bard and Fates-bound Warlock dealt with secondary objectives, effectively preventing the party from being overrun.

@goosebumps I had a player in Curse of Strahd play one. The campaign as written makes acquiring armor above chain mail for more than 1 person nearly impossible and almost no magic items exist. Our forge cleric at lvl7 uses fabricate to give everyone in the party Full Plate raising their own AC to 22 (18+2 shield+1 forge magic ability +1 Forge cleric wearing heavy armor) and waded into battle maintaining Spirit Guardians. With resist fire not even fire ball made a dent on his character. Edit: Normally fabricate does not allow you to make Armor and other finely constructed items UNLESS you have smithing tools and proficiency in it. Which Forge Cleric has....and the spell is instantaneous so it didnt even take weeks or anything to craft the party stuff....

Dude spoilers!

@@FlyingNova223 .....? I am confusion.

@@Riflery Naw, appreciate it man! Thanks for writing it out

@@Riflery You spoiled the rankings, man!

​@@FlyingNova223 just don't read the comment

oh dear god no

Dude, same. I'll play a Cleric even if there's someone else in the party playing Cleric. I've just had the conversation that, "We're two different domains, so there's RP potential over the differences in philosophy. And trust me, how ever you think a Cleric is supposed to play, I'll play it differently." 😁 My group has even discussed playing an all Cleric one-shot, each from a different domain.

@@nathanhall4824 I hope you name your group as the A-Men... Hahaha...

Bring a full team of Clerics of different subclasses, be called the A-men.. might have some different personalities and goals but got a very versatile team

@@kace10531 Ha ha! Yes!

Cleric is my default class

Love this domain played a tortle death cleric in decent into avernus and it was great going into melee with my Greataxe and spiritual guardians

I think you meant Necromancy Wizard btw :p

I think the main thing they are forgetting with the death domain is that you can set up with spiritual weapon and spiritual guardians and then you can attack with your melee weapon which is enhanced by the subclass at 8th level and you can of course add necrotic damage with channel divinity. I do agree the DD's are underestimating death domain.

They are versatile midfielders. I played mine with a glaive and warcaster to not need the heavier armor. I then could build up an undead shield wall within an antilife shell and still do what was needed.

@@AbyssArray Oops, you're right.

Take swordcoast cantrips. If you're not getting extra attacks, booming blade is the boom.

Potent spellcasting only works on cantrips, though. Doesn't help you with spiritual weapon. Still not bad, though. Arcane initiate is useful, I agree. Extra cantrips are always nice.The rest of the features just aren't amazing until 17th level. As for dispel magic, clerics already have it on their spell list. And I don't think it's one of those spells you necessarily need to have prepared 24/7, which makes it not the best for your subclass spell list.

They didn't mention potent spellcaster because every cleric gets it, or its melee attack equivalent.

Yes, they will *also* be using Spiritual Weapon, so a strong ranged one-two punch. Wizard damage cantrips are second only to Eldritch Blast for damage. Dispel Magic is an essential spell slot that is freed up for other things. It is most definitely a 24/7 spell slot if you ever get to tier 3. My point is that Arcana clerics are not simply waiting around for 17th level to be effective at what they do which is what you and the Dungeon Dudes seem to be thinking.

Yeah, I agree. Also, the Spell Breaker is amazing. I think that most of people never came across Arcana Cleric enough that they don´t remember all the features. Arcana is an A, tbh.

there are 11 resitant and 11 immune

@@wolves600 Are those just from the Monster Manual? I'm pretty sure there are a lot more than 11 creatures resistant to necrotic damage; at least when looking at all the books combined.

@@witcher_helms5144 apparently there are 2600 creatures in dnd and only like 4% of them have necrotic restiances/immunity. Plus you're a necromancer/cleric so you'll have things to deal with any/most undead to begin with. Really Death Domain will hit hard against most creatures.

Yup. I was looking at that too

Plus it's not considered a 'spell' it's a 'spell-like action' to use your channel divinity to heal. I saved a party by using it to get 3 people back on their feet AND casting bonus action healing word. Managed to bring the Rogue, the Bard and the Wizard back up to half hp, slapped the Rogue with Healing word to keep them in the fight longer. turned what could have been a TPK into a successful end of module boss fight (we were running at 5th edition update to Against the Cult of the Reptile God and a lightning bolt took at 3 out of the 5 party members, leaving just me and the fighter still up).

It took me a long time to realize that the Channel divinity was meant for bringing up people who dropped. Getting someone for 30 hp is amazing. I still remove the half hp limit. I find it is enough of a trouble to divide the health 3 or 4 ways that also limiting half isn't usually needed

Agreed, I'd potentially make a hobgoblin forge cleric to work around that issue as well.

But really simple weapons work well too. Maces are great But you're right that dwarves help a lot.

Wood Elves get swords and bows, so they're also good.

It is an issue, but I enjoy the challenge of figuring out a different way to be a threat on the battle field and be able to tank. Different than other clerics that is. I want to play them all. Except nature. ;)

I don't really view that as a downside since clerics don't get martial weapons by default, and to my knowledge no cleric gets both heavy armor and martial weapons.

Hard to disagree? Or did you mean hard to agree? :)

Geoff DeWitt Both the Arcane Abjuration and Spell Breaker are heavily campaign dependent. It’s a B at best.

Geoff DeWitt, tamp down the excitement on the ritual spells. You still have to prepare those spells unless you take the Ritual Caster feat. Only Wizards can cast Ritual Spells without preparing them first. That actually makes this subclass *much much worse*, because even if you do take Ritual Caster, you still have a bunch of ritual spells that are auto-prepared for you. You get even less benefit from Ritual Caster because you can't not prepare those spells.

Scorpious187 Domain spells don't count against the number of spells you can prepare

@@NotYourAverageNothing I know that. What I'm getting at is having ritual spells on your spell list is a waste of space. Because they're always prepared, they're always taking space in your spell list, where if you take Ritual Caster you don't have to prepare them. So as a Life Domain cleric, I can take Ritual Caster and have ritual spells which I don't have to prepare (and thus don't take up spots in my spell list), like a wizard can. But because they're locked in on my Arcana domain list, they're just there, they can't be removed and they get no benefit from the Ritual Caster feat.

I agree. I think their argument against this subclass is really really strange. It has the best level 17 power of all the Cleric subclasses but because it's level 17 and most campaigns don't make it that high, it should be ignored?! Literally none of the other subclasses were viewed with this odd nullifying point. Why is the Forge class so good when the really good topper is level 17 and you'll never reach it? In the negative, even subclasses such as Nature, which has a virtually useless level 17 ability, was not looked at unfavorably in this way. It's like they have some sort of bias against Arcana. So weird! And like you said, they disregarded the Channel Divinity (which becomes a free no concentration banishment eventually), The level 6 dispel with a heal can be a game changer. These are really useful abilities. They really missed the boat on the Arcana subclass.

Yeah. I am playing a knowledge domain with ritual caster Cleric in ToA with no wizard. It's quite useful! A little less wizardly than Arcana, but still filling a similar role.

@@fortunatus1 The forge domain topper is really good in addition to the better spell list and better features, not because of its 17. I don't think they took 17s into consideration at all for it and just added that its capstone feature was either good or useless. Also, spell breaker is helpful, only in campaigns with spells to be dispelled that get cast on people. Some campaigns are not spellcaster-heavy making the feature usefulness dependent on the setting. In a campaign where you only encounter a few spellcasters(not to mention they have to have a spell that affects your party members, which is also another subset of monsters that don't just deal damage or buff themselves), this feature is basically a waste, even in the one situation its helpful, is it worth picking an entire subclass for a feature you only use one time in the campaign? Banishment can also be niche in application so having a free one may not be as useful as expected and certainly not more useful than some other channel divinity options, especially a banishment that only works on certain enemy types and only if they are not on their plane of origin(and below a certain CR)

I would argue in a campaign like that it works better than other campaigns where those features are not as necessary for success. Also holding concentration has nothing to do with the subclass, same with combat, i would argue the subclass is actually subpar in combat, with only potent spellcasting boosting their combat ability(and a good chunk of clerics get that)

Yeah, its useful. But at the same time its also kinda overwright by the other features of the class itself. You dont need to use it at lower levels as long as you still having spell slots to do that sweet sweet maximazed heal, and at higher lvls you can choose atomatically to kill or stabilize anyone who goes down while in the same range (dont know with you can use it when you're out of range and aproach after, when Spare the Dying could still be a option).

I have very little concern for the powers of a 17th level ability. Maximize heal will be more useful in most cases, but the ability to cast it as a bonus action and still use your regular spell slots because it's a cantrip, gives it a lot more use and versatility then it normally has, which is basically none.

Definitely. Always prepared, bonus action, and 30' range is a huge boost to its effectiveness.

No kidding. 30' Spare the Dying as a bonus action? Yes please.

I’d actually take the healer feat with a grave cleric.

michael wolf I play grave cleric and they are really fun. But do it some events I’m multiclassing

Monty subtly corrected a little bit after that.

@@rafaelseyssel3388 also his look was just like wtf dude

hey he's only a Variant Human... they sometimes make errors ;)

Also they ignore resistance to necrotic damage

@@litoslens Thank you, was looking for this.

Well the wisdom mod damage to cantrips are to *all* cleric cantrips, and while there aren't many cantrips that can target more than 1 creature, especially wizard or cleric cantrips, it could be useful in that scenario (maybe using metamagic adept and twinned spell to nuke two creatures with firebolt or acid splash, the list goes on).

Adding to #1) The bonus cantrips are great not just for booming blade & the like, but also because with Potent spellcasting (on them or others) you can do surprisingly good damage with your cantrips. Firebolt for 2d10+wis at lvl 8 is actually quite nice; acid splash, thunderclap, word of radiance can all do 2d6+wis to multiple enemies (putting it basically on board with 1st level spells). Also knowing arcana is always great, as its one of the higher end of useful skills in the game. 2) 100% agree with spellbreaker which wasn't even mentioned! This is one of the most powerful domain abilities in the class. Mass cure wounds, healing word, mass healing word, heal, etc. become INCREDIBLE spells when they all heal (already good!) + automatically dispel effects from your team! (No single target dispels to remove certain effects!) How did you guys overlook this? 3) Agree on arcane abjuration; I have no idea how fiends, elementals, fey, and (okay fine to celestials) were considered niche. Between those and undead (remember you're probably going to want to turn undead or abjure here; so the 2 CDs dont really compete direclty, which is nice) this ability is extremely useful. 4) Regarding the domain spells - first its useful to have things like detect magic and dispel magic on your list because they save you the memorization slot, a highly contested resource for your cleric, allowing you to memorize more situational things for your dungeon/adventure. ("We're at the yuanti-temple, so i'll memorize protection from poison since i have a free slot.") Arcane eye, leomunds chest, and teleportation circle are big deals if your party doesn't have a wizard (how many groups have a sorc, a non-tome-warlock, or no arcane ritual caster? you can really hit some of the big important rituals right here!) and I don't understand how you guys dismissed that. 5)The capstone is great, but I never worry about that stuff too much, and was not even on my list of reckoning; I'm not sure why you guys focused on that and every other ability here which is quite good! Now theorycrafting aside; I've seen a 10th level arcane cleric in action (and built one) which is why I know it's as good as it is. My recommendation to truly evaluate a subclass/kit for classes is at minimum, try to build a character for it (and look at it at a few level ranges like 3, 6, 10, etc) as if you were going to play it (note: trying to make it as effective as you would if you were going to play it in a long campaign) before trying to really assert how good you think it is. Sorry if this was a bit standoffish; I normally really like your content. This just hit a nerve for some reason.

@@parabostonian2267 I definitely agree with your comments expanding on the synergy between cantrips+potent spellcasting. Since Arcana Domain is SCAG, I just used BB and GFB as the leading examples since they're from the same sourcebook (and bc I think they're darn good). If one is playing a non-AL Arcana Cleric as a tank, Word of Radiance (from XGE)+potent spellcasting against a mob is fantastic, dealing 2d6+Wis radiant against any chosen creature within 5ft. I mostly play AL, so alas my character can't use this combo. Thank you for catching the Arcana skill proficiency, I was focused mostly on what was not addressed in the video, but agree the import is understated. As long as you have 10 in Int, the value of Arcana as a skill grows nicely with levels, and if one already has a Wizard in their party - great! - the Arcana cleric can assist them with an Arcana check to have them gain advantage with a higher modifier. I am also suspect of how they are judging the "value" of these cleric domains, as it seems like they may just be loading a character to 20 in dndbeyond and reading through all the class features listed, which explains why some synergistic qualities were missed... Also agree on the value of evaluating subclasses at entry/exit of each "tier" of play (based on AL), so evaluating at levels 1/4, 5/10, 11/16, 17+. Since most D&D play never gets near Tier 4, lvl 17+, comments on capstone abilities are much less valuable to casual players than comments on how a character plays at, say level 10 (which any cleric does very well!).

I don't mean to sound mean but I see this a lot with the Spell breaker ability. Spell breaker only works on ONE CREATURE AT A TIME. "Starting at 6th level, when you restore hit points to an ally with a spell of 1st level or higher, YOU CAN ALSO END ONE SPELL OF YOUR CHOICE ON THAT CREATURE. The level of the spell you end must be equal to or lower than the level of the spell slot you use to cast the healing spell." To me that reads you could end the spell effect on one member not everyone. It's not beneficial to use this on a AOE, like In the situation you set, it would be better to cast dispel magic at 5th level.

@@brittanyanderson97 I disagree. RAW the description does not specify one creature at a time, but *one spell at a time* affecting *a creature that is healed*. In other words, you can remove one effect on each ally that is healed. So if your party was hit by the Fear or Charm Person spells in a round, one could cast Mass Healing Word at 3rd level and choose which affect they would want to end on each ally that is healed by your spell. While both the identifiers are singular, only the spell effect is numerically limited in that turn. Also using the Life Cleric's Disciple of Life trait as a supporting example, "Whenever you use a spell of 1st level or higher to restore hit points to a creature, the creature regains additional hit points equal to 2 + the spell’s level." This feature only specifies "a creature" in the text per your original argument, yet is known to work on multiple allies affected by an AoE heal (likely to appeal to single target and AoE abilities). Edited: Synaptic Static was a bad example since its instantaneous, switched to Charm Person as non-concentration duration spell example.

@@Dr-Lex it does say a spell but ON THAT CREATURE (singular) not CREATURES (plural). I would say in the case of spell breaker that would be at the DM's discretion to decide if that applies or not. Technically for Disciple of Life it is the same wording wise, A/THAT creature. Which refers to ONE, the wording specifies A CREATURE NOT CREATURES. So even if you use an AOE heal the ability only applies to A (singular) creature. DM's just allow it to effect more members or you could make vlid argument. It's just a nice ability or they don't get hung up on the wording, which I don't see as a problem in this case. Another aspect is that you can achieve the desired effect without spell breaker by casting dispel magic where as you can't really add extra healing on top of healing spells. You'll probably say this is hypocritical statement (which in someways it is) but really it depends on how you and the DM interpret the wording. Sorry for sounding like a rules lawyer or that guy.

That was me when they said the Wizard had more subclasses than Cleric

female elf cleric of life:were inportant too!

I think what they mean is that in a game where you can create your own character and have decisions in the influence of the story, you don't want to be tethered to just supporting your team. As in you don't have any agency, any impact in the story, your character is essentially a dispenser or a robot just for healing, a "healbot" and I ain't talking about a warforged. And even then that's an insulting to treat another player like that. You expect someone only to heal, that's their only purpose. You dismiss their story, what they want to do because "well the party needs a healer." If you enjoy being the medic, like I do, that's fine. But I hate spending hours creating my character, painting a miniature, investing time and emotion, only to be treated like an NPC who exists solely to keep reckless or selfish players alive.

@@TheDancerMacabre I have fun in the role play of a kindly older priest who exist to serve and help those who come by him. He has dedicated his life to others and asks only for donations to help preserve his church. Makes it fun when he sees a situation go south and decides to go nova and nuke an enemy from orbit. Or the visuals of the kindly healer welding a mace and bashing a monsters skull in because they hurt his party. But yeah, it's really important to talk to your play group and set the expectation of how your going to play your life cleric.

With the right guys, it can be good. But it has a lot of baggage exactly from video games where the specialization is extremely high. In MMORPGs 20 people each wear exactly one of 3 hats. In dungeons and dragons every character can wear 3 or 4 hats and should at least wear 2.

And Steps of the Brave is very fun and the whole subclass is highly flavourful.

I hate the Twilight Domain so much. It's such an emo domain and every player I've ever known who's tried it has played their Twilight cleric like a friggin' rogue and I hate it.

Seems unfair to hate on the domain for how you've seen it played.

@@illoney5663 That's not the only reason I don't like it, but it's a contributing factor. Lol.

@@Scorpious187 my wife played a Twilight domain cleric as a chipper little halfling. :) She made it a lot of fun. But I can see how people would fall into the trap of "emo cleric". But falling into tropes and assumptions is a danger in pretty much every class and sub-class.

Yeah but that is basically the only useful thing about that subclass depending on the campaign you are running.

Don’t forget animate objects as a domain spell

If you want a damage dealing cleric, then ya.

@@Dickwraith101 And a smite spell at level 1!

Another cool thing to note, Forge Cleric is the only way for a PC to get a damage immunity that isn't poison.

@@emblem3272 forge domain walks through the volcano wondering why everyone is freaking out.

How can they craft that?

@@rednose2601 There are rules for crafting magic items in Xanathar's Guide. It mostly boils down to "spend a couple sessions getting the formula and/or materials as determined by the DM, then spend some time between sessions on the actual crafting."

@@Narifamen but why can the arcana specifically craft it and not someone else?

To craft something like a wand you need to be able to cast the spell it uses (or have someone capable of doing so for you). So most clerics can't do that, but Arcana Clerics can since they have Magic Missile as part of their expanded spell list. That said, there are plenty of classes and subclasses with access to Magic Missile. Wizard, Sorcerer, Arcane Trickster Rogue, Eldritch Knight Fighter, Armorer Artificer, and anyone who takes Magic Initiate to pick it up could also craft such a wand, provided they have the proper tool proficiency.

Shield spell or a RoSS with shield within it would render all those magic missles useless.

We'll be doing addendum videos once TCoE comes out!

what does TCoE mean?

@@aldoushuxley5953 Tasha's Cauldron of Everything New DnD book

@@TM-nv oh awesome, thank you :) Do we already know anything about this? (What UA will become real, and what the new subclasses are)

@@aldoushuxley5953 22 new subclasses, 5 reprinted ones. All new, as far as I know, all the new subclasses are from UA. There are some confirmed ones, and there aren't actually that many UA subclasses. Nerd Immersion made his predictions in a recent video.

Heat metal and animate objects can definitely save the party. Grave is good but still situational. Where as forge is always good imo.

The problem with the party-friendly features of the grave domain is that they are only good when things are going horribly wrong. Sure, the spare the dying buffs are great, but if you're using them instead of healing word, things are not going well for the party. The forge domain just by being good on his own will prevent things from getting to this point.

Katherine Minor If you have the choice between a player: casting heat metal and a player: that can cancel Nat 20’s You are going it want the guy that can cancel nat 20’s

@@TVMAN1997 Eeehhhh.... Nat 20's don't happen as frequently as people think. It IS nice to be able to negate nat 20's but unless you're rolling with a party that constantly gives advantage on everything all the time forever, it's not entirely prevalent. In 15 years I can't really say I've ever seen more than 4 or 5 nat 20's in a single session. Also if Nat 20's were guaranteed to happen only in combat thag would be more useful, but a player/NPC is just as likely to Nat 20 on a skill as they are on a critical save or attack.

@@THEGRUMPTRUCK ...and for every hot night that reaches that 3-4 nat 20s, there's a night that doesn't see any...

I am super hoping Rune Knight is in there.

A bunch of Unearthed needs to finally surface... I'm with you there.

@@jesselalli9551 There have been so many great UA classes.

I can’t wait!!!

We fully agree. Cleric was really hard because most people who pick a domain pick it because it suits their vision, so really, we just tried to stack them against each other, but they are all super good choices and fun to play.

Aye! It may be the particular campaign I’m in, but my Death Domain Cleric is almost too powerful, haha. I one-shot most enemies.

Toby Thompson yeah, it seems ridiculous if you have all of the undead for swarm tactics

Ping Pong D&D yeah, i dont use the undead too often but fallen aasimae death clerics are quite the damage dealing combo!

I think that's because Cleric's are one of the stronger classes in 5e, so even a sub-optimal domain is still going to wreak shit. That being said, as cool as I think the Death domain is, I agree that it's torn a bit to much between wanting to be a Necromancer that uses WIS instead of INT and wanting to be a Death Knight-ish build. It's not bad, but it's seems to me that the class was thrown into the DMG as an example without much thought to balance.

too

i multiclass into death domain after 2 levels of paladin for the big smite potential

Agreed, plus one of their big knocks against it is that necrotic damage is a lower tier of damage... But this is addressed with the 6th level ability that negates most necrotic resistance.

@@ezirb7 I knew I read that somewhere - pretty cool ability that removes one of their main criticisms.

Playing one at lvl 14 and I'm out damaging the paladin 2 times per short rest, you really gotta lean into it for it to be good, I took heavy armor and a polearm, you can stay on the front for a long time dishing out a ton of damage while still having all of your resources to heal your party.

Totally agree I usually play life domain cleric and it's funny how all my party can be on the ground and in just one turn I can use Channel divinity and healing word and suddenly everyone is up again with half the HP

Thanks so much :)

I feel like the sorcerer might desperately need some new subclasses. I really want to like storm sorcerer because the concept is cool but too many of its abilities force you to be close and if they don't, the lightning spells do. Sorcerer should certainly get some charm based subclass to play on their charisma.

@@coleriedel751 what about Phoenix soul

decent cantrips doesn't negate that the rest of the subclass is niche until level 17

@@Koranthus it's still something they missed

Wizards will probably get the same treatment.

Once during a fight with a green dragon all my party was going to die and as a cleric I had to sacrifice myself so I told them to run away and I would stay fighting with him. I used the combo that you say I was very lucky with the rolls and although the dragon had more than half of life in 5 turns I won the fight. I know it was pure luck literally for 5 turns I hit all my attacks I dodged his breath weapon (which I was resistant to because I was a dwarf) and in general I had a lot of luck with the rolls and the dragon very little.

Well for these rankings they take a look at it from just being purely that class with no dips so while some like death and arcana might be good dips as a class themselves they aren't as great as some others not bad but just not great

super niche domain.

08i 0k0.,

That is an excellent point. Once you start running into enemies with Legendary Resistance, only having saving throw-based cantrips is a real problem.

doesn't save the subclass, if anything it makes it C instead of D.

My problem with the Death cleric (just got out of a campaign where I played it to level 11) is that it doesn't seem to know whether it wants to be a melee or ranged attacker. You get this cool ability to target two people (within 5 feet of each other) with your cantrips Chill Touch and Toll the Dead, but you don't get potent spell casting to add your wisdom mod to your cantrips. You get a channel divinity that adds a ton of necrotic damage to a melee attack and divine strike with adds necrotic damage to your melee attacks as well, but you don't get proficiency in heavy armor. And it's cool that your necrotic damage ignores resistance seeing as it's the majority of your damage, but that never really came up for our campaign because we didn't fight a bunch of undead. It was really fun to play and to RP my gollum-like death cleric that just wanted people to like him, but the class felt a bit divided in how it wanted to approach combat. I think either giving it potent spellcasting (and increasing reaper's range to 10 ft), or giving it heavy armor proficiency would go a long way to defining how the class wants to play.

Death domain can be pretty wicked on the damage side of things. The combination of Inflict Wounds and the channel divinity is kinda gross, especially if you upcast the spell. The chance to double up on Toll the Dead also keeps you pretty relevant on round to round damage, and you can almost always find two baddies standing next to each other. The spell list could use some work, yes, and I'd also rather have better cantrips and not divine strike, but you take what you get.

@@vincentbartels1111 I think the class should have got potent spellcasting too. The subclass is still a little muddled on Dex or Wis. I tend to give my cleric shields so I don't really use strength-based weapon and don't usually bother with heavy armour since rapier=longsword with S&B. I'll defend the CD since it still works with spiritual weapon but the Divine Strike bothers me too since, even though you can be an archer to stay ranged, unless you get a crossbow to use wisdom somehow, you may get a little MAD That said, I still give it a B and I'm glad that you had a good time with it too

They literally said it would be a problem fighting undead with resistance to necrotic damage.......completely forgetting that said resistance gets nullified once you hit level 6.....not much to do about some of it's poison damage spells though, but it is what it is since that's the worst damage type in the game anyways. I've been playing a DDC for 2-3 months now in a campaign, currently at level 3. I think they are somewhat correct in the idea of spells, bc it feels like the only necromancy spell I ever toss out is false life-the cantrip perk is situational, but I've used it twice so far. As Vincent said, it does feel like it's mixed in combat-do I use spells, or do I attack with my weapon? When casting spells, do I buff/debuff, do I heal, or do I just do spell damage? I've had a blast playing it, def a B tier class so far imo

That's why they didn't weigh it much into the decisions, it seemed like it was a "oh and their capstone is good or bad" rather than the rating being affected by it. Without its capstone, arcana is very niche in application the only good thing it gets is 2 cantrips.

Indeed; their take on Life -Cleric is just plane meh. The single-best thing about them is their Channel Divinity. Second is the Heavy Armor Proficiency. Third is their spell list is good BECAUSE you always want them so it's, hands down, the most flexible of all domain lists. Fourth: healing word is the best heal to use in a fight and only the life-cleric can use it well. Essentially; a good life cleric is your front-line fighter AND your support/healer spell user. He get's even better with a fellow front-liner to support him.

@@bitharne Maybe not fighter, but front-line medic definitely. Maybe fighter if they have high strength, or use something like Shileileigh. But yeah, hands down best healer.

No cap

Brah, have u seen the bard?

When bards can be the best heal AND the best tank, come talk to me.

U said versatile, have u seen the bard class? U have way more proficiencies than cleric, u have jack of all trades, and the best magic secrets, it’s only the most versatile class. U can do everything and u can go melee with some subclasses, that u can get some medium armor.

i main Bard. its incredibly versatile. it is a bit better at skills than a Cleric. but you cant be a good tank as a bard, clerics are better healers, and better damage dealers. the Bard is the jack of all trades, the Cleric is the master.

Yeah, Life Domain really shines when you're playing with players that are either new to the game or unfamiliar with each other. It's a security blanket not only for the DM that hopes to heap punishment on players, but for the players who want to live long enough to learn from their mistakes.