CO2 - The Commercial Heat Pump Super Power

  Рет қаралды 11,007

Heat Geek

Heat Geek

Жыл бұрын

In this weeks podcast, Adam speaks with Richard Warry, also known as Heat Pump Man, to discuss the differences between commercial and domestic installations and how Co2 is a much better option than Adam first thought!
Check out Richard's KZfaq channel here: www.youtube.com/@theheatpumpm...
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Пікірлер: 51
@brianballard905
@brianballard905 Жыл бұрын
It's not a plasma, it's a "super critical fluid" - basically a gas that has been compressed until it has the density of a liquid.
@tomkacandes8286
@tomkacandes8286 Жыл бұрын
Most CO2 refrigeration systems in the US are referred to as “transcritical” but don’t ask me to define that.
@Lewis_Standing
@Lewis_Standing Жыл бұрын
Isn't plasma where electrons and atoms have separated and no longer associated? Like whats found in the sun and lightning?
@Sean006
@Sean006 Жыл бұрын
Use of word ' Plasma' sounded a little weird but if it helps people to understand the concept then why not?......basically it's the starte of the refrigerant that. Is most efficient for CO2 heat pumps
@hauskalainen
@hauskalainen 8 күн бұрын
This video needs a lead up explanatory to explain the abbreviations used.
@jimrs2k
@jimrs2k Жыл бұрын
I work in Bristol and the surrounding area as a heating engineer, i have 20 years of experience in domestic heat pumps both design and install, yet i talk to other engineers every day and the complacency in the industry is mind boggling . The lack of understanding or basic knowledge is terrible and the desire to learn is just not there in most cases. Heat geek is a great idea and i applaud you guys as i had to larn the hard way although im 40yrs in the trade now im still learning. Jim.
@advance-heating
@advance-heating 5 ай бұрын
air src heat pumps in a moist uk environment? No chance. Please provide numbers showing how often then de-icing cycle is triggered. Typical home needs 20MWh/annum to heat and you want to load up the electric Grid to take on that load with British homes? Utter overload. ashp would average cop of 1.4 if you're honest. Grid losses mean that to get 1kwh of power into your home it costs 3kWh of energy from the nuclear power plant which is disastrous. Electrical power should not be squandered on heat, just used for electronics! Then the lib idiots think that nuclear is clean because it involves little CO2... go swim in the waste pools at Sellafield then. They will be festering for the next ten thousand years with lethal radiation, just because some idiot in 2024 decided to heat their conservatory from a heat pump. Nice inheritance for your your grandkids huh? Are we collectively losing our minds? Nuclear Power - No, thank you. It was true in the '70s and is still true today. Solar thermal and wood logs, loads of natural insulation with gas/oil backup is the way to go.
@kevinfleming9770
@kevinfleming9770 Жыл бұрын
We work at these units regularly in the commercial field (Aldi / Lidl / Tesco etc) absolutely will lend itself to Heatpump technology with the high pressure / temperatures it can generate..a total game changer
@danielwebb2773
@danielwebb2773 Жыл бұрын
This model is great for heating your hot water but not so great at heating your home
@kevinfleming9770
@kevinfleming9770 Жыл бұрын
@@danielwebb2773 - the technology is there already..it will be utilised for space heating with additional controls, it might be a case of buffer and then drawing from that buffer onto your specific heat exchanger
@tomkacandes8286
@tomkacandes8286 Жыл бұрын
@@kevinfleming9770 The Japanese have a range of "eco-cute" (a Japanese marketing thing, it seems) CO2-based DHW heat pumps, one of which by Sanden has seen a small number of installs here in the US, including one (two? - have to ask again) by my favorite installer. It can be made to work as you describe, but the CO2 is run at over 1,000 PSI which requires higher quality of construction which increases cost - that is the short term problem as it can't compete. Maybe if we get into using thermal buffers to effect time-shifting of electricity use as an additional value stream it could come into focus, but R-290 monobloc seems a shorter path to the same no-more-GWP-worries end from where I sit.
@tomkacandes8286
@tomkacandes8286 Жыл бұрын
According to Emerson’s global VP of environment, Rajan Rajendran, 50% of all refrigerants manufactured go to replacing leaked refrigerant. (HVAC School podcast)
@tomkacandes8286
@tomkacandes8286 Жыл бұрын
We do CO2 refrigeration systems, US is seeing CO2 DHW systems - both need a high “lift” in delta T, call it 100 F.
@UrbanPlumbers
@UrbanPlumbers Жыл бұрын
super interesting!
@davidfellowes1628
@davidfellowes1628 Жыл бұрын
Second viewing. This is such an important conversation for us all, which answers many of one's own questions.
@bruceboucher2134
@bruceboucher2134 Жыл бұрын
Well les exciting than I thought it would be, revealed more about Heat Geek (Hydronics) and Andrew (applications engineer) and their own learning curves. My gut feeling is we are making the subject of HP's far more complex than it needs to be.
@Sean006
@Sean006 Жыл бұрын
Every decision maker in UK should watch this video......listen to the experts.👍
@danhollins935
@danhollins935 Жыл бұрын
Great video 👍
@stixstonesinvestors5413
@stixstonesinvestors5413 5 ай бұрын
Brilliant episode this was 🔥🔥🔥🔥
@logik100.0
@logik100.0 7 ай бұрын
Interesting thing is back in 1994 the place I was working in was thinking about a heat pump to replace the gas heating boiler.
@1over137
@1over137 3 ай бұрын
The UK still uses (I believe) CO2 to cool nuclear reactors. Magnox and others where "Advanced gas reactors". CO2 was chosen because of it's particular state change mechanics. No need to worry about the coolant boiling when it's already a gas.
@chrisroberts8745
@chrisroberts8745 Жыл бұрын
Great video
@davydrav
@davydrav 11 ай бұрын
Manufacturers need to stop putting efficiency in front of reliability. Making coils thinner and thinner is fine for efficiency but get A LOT of unnecessary refrigerant leaks now. 410a or R32 would be fine as long as it doesn’t leak. Simple efficient heat pumps need to be the way forwards for the domestic market, long term service costs at the moment would be very prohibitive for most uk home owners.
@tomkacandes8286
@tomkacandes8286 Жыл бұрын
ODP attaches to chlorine, GHG also comes from fluorine content as HFCs and most HFOs
@heatpump8566
@heatpump8566 Жыл бұрын
It’s not a plasma! Nice to see a passionate man. I love ammonia as a refrigerant. Next video?😊
@rogerbradley5213
@rogerbradley5213 Ай бұрын
I read the comments to see if anyone else noticed the title screen error. There's no such thing as "C O squared ", which is what you're saying if the digit 2 is super-scripted
@davidfellowes1628
@davidfellowes1628 Жыл бұрын
Is this a June 2023 production, because the timeline of these commments is also important to their understanding. This is a very useful discussion especially for someone who has a large 6 bedroom house to renovate, and which already has 25kWp ground solar. In such a case the fundamentals of Climate Controls and low heat are extremely important.
@HeatGeek
@HeatGeek Жыл бұрын
Yea
@davidfellowes1628
@davidfellowes1628 Жыл бұрын
@@HeatGeek Thank you for answering. I do appreciate the struggle to inform the general public you are undertaking. Keep it up. Cheers.
@widd1854
@widd1854 Жыл бұрын
Without meaningful educational training for design and installation companies/individuals we are heading down the route of unscrupulous contractors miss selling into the domestic market. next big thing for the compensation lawyers in 2-3 years, “were you miss sold a heat pump” Legislation on training requirements needs to be put in place now instead of trying to hit unrealistic targets offering grants, the grant money would be better spent on educating the trades.
@AirConAlex
@AirConAlex 11 ай бұрын
I enjoyed this one! Unfortunately, there might be some misunderstanding regarding Co2 being a plasma. When Co2 pressure rises, it can enter a "Transcritical," which is where the pressure and temperature relationship stops but it does remain a vapour. All refrigerants can theoretically enter a transcritical state but the pressure needed to enter transcritical state are often far out of the working range of the system. There was a brief mention of sound like Co2 at its tripple point. This is where Co2 can be in a solid, liquid, and vapour state at the same time.
@janklaas6885
@janklaas6885 Жыл бұрын
📍43:44
@john-qq4ym
@john-qq4ym Жыл бұрын
You probably were wrong about co2 as a refrigerant. At the moment UK is gobbling up natural gas at a huge rate. I changed from gas to Ashp and as far as I can see I'll still be running on gas generated electricity. If, tomorrow we installed X million heat pumps in place of gas boilers the extra load would necessarily be covered by gas or coal generated electricity. And here's the kicker, 60% of that heat used at the power station goes directly to heating the atmosphere. Look at nuclear, say it's 40% efficient, if it has an output of 4,000 megawatts 6,000 megawatts go to heating the planet directly. Somebody please tell me I'm wrong.
@ChrisShucksmith
@ChrisShucksmith 7 ай бұрын
The 40% efficiency 'limitation' is the theoretical limit of a closed Carnot Cycle within a thermal power station, ie. that of power stations with cooling towers that need to condense dry stream from the turbine exhaust back to liquid water for the feed pumps to inject it back into the boiler. This is applicable to nuclear, biomass and coal stations. Gas power stations use a different process - combined cycle gas turbine (CCGT) plant which uses the combustion products to directly spin the turbines. This has a much higher theoretical efficiency, and the exhaust then used for a regular thermal cycle. Gas -> CGGT -> Electricity -> Grid -> Heat pump is both theoretically and practically more efficient than burning gas on small scale domestic boilers.
@jrisner6535
@jrisner6535 Жыл бұрын
Hmmm, you should talk with some good consultants.... We do exist!
@HeatGeek
@HeatGeek Жыл бұрын
You do! The rest of them are just few and far between in my 20 years experience! Hope your well!
@matthewtrueblood408
@matthewtrueblood408 Жыл бұрын
Couldn’t agree more with the “cut & paste” comment. I worked with consultants a lot 15 years ago and I’ve just started working with them again; and nothing has changed. Over-engineered and over-powered with lots of mistakes in the specification with very little flexibility when you ask for changes.
@Irilia_neko
@Irilia_neko Жыл бұрын
Need to find you first, you are very rare
@tomkacandes8286
@tomkacandes8286 Жыл бұрын
R-290 and R-600a are lower than CO2, lower than 0.2
@dinendale666
@dinendale666 Жыл бұрын
R290 is propane
@tomkacandes8286
@tomkacandes8286 Жыл бұрын
@@dinendale666 Yes, I should have interpreted that: specifically the gas one burns is about 90% propane (hopefully) and r-290 is held to a higher standard, I believe at least 95% propane. R-600a is iso-butane and is now used in almost all residential refrigerators and freezers legally for sale in New York State US for example, while R-290 high-purity propane is now found in most (not all) commercial refrigerators and reach-in freezers - some penetration in larger units, also modular units for grocery that are an alternative to "rack" systems based on CO2.
@dinendale666
@dinendale666 Жыл бұрын
@@tomkacandes8286 yes , R-290 is specified as nitrogen free . I know it’s not the LPG you use in blow touches.
@tomkacandes8286
@tomkacandes8286 Жыл бұрын
@@dinendale666 Another good detail, thank you. I was not correcting you, but other people watching or reading comments might not appreciate how R-600a is more specific and pure than what you get in a lighter-refill can or R-290 is not what you get for your bar-B-que. If you think Heat Geeks are a rare breed, chat about refrigerants to even people promoting heat pumps and you'll find not so many folks understanding much about GWP from refrigerants for example, lol.
@john-qq4ym
@john-qq4ym Жыл бұрын
Hi guys, I just looked and sure enough we're back on coal. We're a decade too soon with heat pumps. If I'd spent £20 k on solar and batteries instead of ashp I could be almost self sufficient as far as electricity goes, over the summer, saving a load of co2. Then, come winter the batteries would be a great help to the Grid. The question is; how long a cycle life have current ( forgive the pun) batteries got? LTO is claiming to have many thousands of cycles but happen to be expensive. Will sodium come good? I believe our home grown sodium ion battery makers sold out to the Indians. I'm afraid by the time Dogger Bank comes good and we get some transmission lines sorted my ashp will be worn out. Are we really paying £100's of millions to curtail wind protection? Hey-ho.
@HeatGeek
@HeatGeek Жыл бұрын
Having the odd day of coal doesn't mean all the renewable electricity is all of a sudden dirtier.. we're a decade late imo!
@JeremyCobb
@JeremyCobb Жыл бұрын
I have had to prioritise solar and batteries here in Halifax. We have a mix of gas and electric underfloor but the ASHP for this bigger house is just so expensive, especially with new underfloor the returns are going to be very very slow. Solar could pay for itself in as little as five years.
@Irilia_neko
@Irilia_neko Жыл бұрын
Propane and butane are also bad for the environment, only CO2 and ammonia are ok
@tomkacandes8286
@tomkacandes8286 Жыл бұрын
That is not actually true in terms of Global Warming Potential: R-290 and R-600a have one fifth the GWP (less than 0.2 vs. 1) than CO2. Source is IPCC AR6 report which recalibrated the GWP of these down from 3 before. Also, ammonia is toxic, the others are not.
@darrenlomax1283
@darrenlomax1283 Жыл бұрын
We started recording global temperatures from the coldest point in recorded history. wouldnt the simpler solution be to get everyone to get their gas boilers tuned to be more efficient (-55c) so its condensing? I constantly find brand new boilers installed and set to 73c. Educate homeowners about the benefits of doing this simple step and the difference would be huge. The propaganda behind heat pumps is forcing people to spend thousands of pounds for minimal benefit. It reminds me of South Parks SMUG episode. In fact, its exactly the same propaganda behind the scrappage scheme, where governments around the world gave incentives to get rid of petrol cars in favour of diesel. The government knew diesel was worse for us but did it anyway.
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