If GW released true scaled first born Tactical Squads, Devastators or Assault Squads, they would sell, amazingly. 40k is about lore too, people make Badab War, Armageddon or themed armies, mine is Firstborn only, so this video was definitely fun to watch and see others are thinking the same as me. That it would be sick af to have MK 6,7,8 true scaled, look how well Horus Heresy is selling and its a game of tac marine v tac marines...

"We don't want primaris to replace firstborn marines! Please don't quit!" "No models no rules! Say goodbye to your core chapter specific firstborn!*cough*black templar crusader squads, any jump/terminator/bike chaplains/captains*cough*" Thanks geedumb

I got into 40k at the start of lockdown and I've only collected and played Firstborn Marines, mainly due to aesthetic and the fact they are the OG's as it were.

3D printer go BRRRRR! I can scale 1st born to what ever I want.

I don’t even dislike Primaris, they look clean, but the stylized firstborn are just way better imo. Sucks that stuff like terminators are going to look silly in a few years

I remember when the 2012/13 kits launched and one of the big selling points was interchangeability of parts between tactical, assault, devastator and van/sternguard veteran, which was a very cool concept at the time, and appears to be making a comeback with the Mk VI heresy marine kits.

The FB Sanguinary Priest is a good scale. Like Rann, just barely not as big as Primaris. The robe might be covering some janky legs, but he looks fine next to an Intercessor. We all know that eventually Primaris will be the only (40k) marines, but I'm hoping they make one last upscale/revamp of a few FB units, even if they only last 2 more editions. Vanguard and Sternguard vets, Terminators, a few HQ choices.

I love the old heroic scale. In my opinion it is a massive part of the 40k aesthetic and now that it is gone with the introduction of primaris marines and the updating of older model lines modern GW minis just look like really high quality knockoffs.

Would love to see a 2024 update to this! With all the new HH plastic minis and such

Fantastic video my man. You know I’m honestly surprised no third party company makes true scale first born legs. Just the legs to use with firstborn kits. I feel like they’d make a killing.

Great vid! I fell out of 40k for a while and was shocked by the primaris when I returned becuase they made all my (now) first born look ridiculous. I was tempted to bin them but I found vids and websites using plasticard to extend their legs, so I was tempted to strip all the paint and make 'em a bit taller and have a mixed BT army.

Firstborn always and forever. Miss me with the Tacticool corporate boardroom designs.

Uh acktchually the chainsword on the assault squad sergeant is a heavier two handed version so it's supposed to be out of proportion

Production quality gone crazy! Podger about to blow up 🔥🔥. Also your brother paints like he has no fingers

the problem is while firstborn have been around forever their range is a lot worse. we also know that firstborn will be gone at some point for primaris

If I can play Devil's Advocate (literally), the Heretic Marines are currently all firstborn.

10/10 love this content keep it coming

I love this topic. I really enjoyed your video, and admire your dark vengeance conversions. Also, this video has an excellant thumbnail. Subscribing because of this video.

It's pretty easy to convert Primaris into Firstborn by trimming the flared kneepads. The legs might be a little different, but it makes them look pretty close to mark 7, especially if you start adding on older parts like mark 7 helmets and backpacks, and you can trim the gorget off to make the look even closer. It's not _perfect,_ but it's a lot easier than trying to make truescale firstborn or messing around with replacing primaris torsos.

Awesome video. Been pro first born for a good long while, but some kits were removed from the store as they're doing a "refresh", but it does seem that there's still a market for first born with Horus Heresy still being worked out and gaining steam. I've been working on a project of building a death watch army. Started off I just wanted a kill team, but then there's an army...I love the look of the deathwatch and it gives me an excuse to practice my free hand and expand chapters ( Been an ultramarines player since 2004). Startled that some box sets were getting removed, I suspect that the first borns will be moved to heresy eventually or out right discontinued as Heresy models become available. This was a great video because I didn't want to strip down my Ultramarines and change them and although I don't want to buy more marines, been thinking and playing with the idea of "true scale" and this video fits the bill. Gonna build a list and get cracking at the modeling and painting. If first born move on, i've still got some in my deathwatch and when they get retired, well, I'll be happy buying the new kits and playing with the Primaris options. Earned yourself a sub and man, what a great video on the subject. Keep up the great work.

I like the primaris models, but definitely prefer the cruder look to firstborn squads, so using my friends 3d printer i got some older mark heads and some boltguns for my intercessor squads. I feel that the bolt rifle looks too advanced for 40k and prefer more simple and smaller boltguns

Exhaustive and excellent analysis of the scale. If they right sized first born GW would make a ton of money IMO. They started it with the HH Mk VI and I suspect they may update the first born for 40k as well, even if it's just the leg proportion or giving them a waist rather than just haveing a chest on legs.

I like both, honestly. I bought the 30k box with a friend, and the beakies in that kit are great. At the same time, I have a Primaris Deathwatch army that got me into the hobby. Both in value are great.

Pretty good summery, you stuck a lot of work into it. I apreciate it very much, subscribed to your channel immediately :) Keep up the work!

Primaris are nice sculpts, but they’re out of scale with everything else, including brand new Chaos Marines. Firstborn for life!

I started with first borns mainly but once i got my first primaris im never going back. They gust look more normally proportioned which to me is a large game immerser

Great video! I wish you have added some CSM models for a more in depth comparison , after all, CSM are still 1st born marines. Also, at the time I watched your video, GW announced they're releasing a new Terminator kit, and Dante got a new sculp.

I'm using HH plastics to make a firstborn army for 10th edition

I got over 200 space marines, probably over 250, most of them are first born and started just a few years ago.

I've got a very mixed collection that I have been building for probably 20 or so years. Whilst collecting OOP NIB stuff is also fun, I have a lot of primaris as well as first born that I want to play with and have been focusing on getting a "scale friendly" collection that is proportionally good looking all around. For the first born, really the only choice originally was to buy multiple boxes of each heroes series and thankfully now with the HH marines being same scale I can at least now comfortably get a whole company of well scaled firstborns. That and half a first company of good scale termies, as the heroes series whilst being monopose, are quite easy to kitbash to give enough variation, especially when you can get your hands on 5 boxes... Also for terminators, I managed to get the limited edition captain, 2 different chaplains and the librarian that all use the heroes series scaling.

Good video, great points. One note though, when you used the assault marine example and pointed out the size of the chain sword; isn’t that an eviserator not a regular chainsword? It’s supposed to be extra long, like the great sword of chainswords. This is not to say that I disagree with your point as a whole. I think you’re 100% correct about the size inflation of marine’s weapons during that period it’s just that example was a bit of a weird one haha.

Omg luv the meme dude👍👍

Sigh, first off good vid i agree with most of it As it comes to true height of space marines, average first born marines are 7 feet inside armor and primaris are 8 feet in armor This was pretty common knowledge in old warhammer books and media they don't show it that much anymore anymore for reasons i guess keep the imagination of people alive. And if people want true scale, the land raiders, rhinos, Dreadnoughts all stayed the same throughout the decades and even for those we have official numbers, 3.7 meters tall 4 meters tall etc etc. So scale the models after those if you want true scale

I'm really sad I can't get the BA tactical kit anymore.

That is, if you want to play Firstborn, then buy the DW now or wait for the update of all models of the Grey Knights. Or play Chaos Space Marines. Well, or yes, just buy a 3D printer.)

Great topic. I’ve been collecting & playing since 1995(epic scale since 93) and I like primaris but wish it was just another version of power armour, not a whole new species of marines. So Horus Heresy for the long term.

Got the Dark Vengeance marines for very affordable price from pre owned groups...it's also more realistic to collect 1st born since they're everywhere

Something I noticed with the Space Marine Heroes Terminators is their armour is slightly thicker in places as well as the height increase, I really hope firstborn infantry get some love especially terminators. I've just gone with using Primaris bodies and arms with firstborn heads and weapons.

PLEASE RELEASE A MARK V SERIES GW!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The issue with the scale is that the 7 ft average space marine is a retcon from after the first marines were released. The super giant primarchs do not match there original fluff either. Maybe everyone just keeps growing forever.

I wanna start a blood angels army and it would feel wrong to have them primaris

Great work. Your channel is awesome 🎉

I started Pre lockdown at the mid point of 8th With the Dark Imperium box Primaris shook me from how "dumb" Marines looked in the past since my FLGS had big Cardboard marines and I always thought they looked silly (Now I very much love first born esp after Horus heresy 2.0) but Scaling Was what did it in for me, they fixed that and bam. now its 2022 and I have almost 5 Armies. ez about 5k in Primaris and another 3k in Firstborne then smatterings of 500-1k in Sisters,Guard and Orks

Thats a beautiful sanguinary guard kitbash

Currently getting back into 40k painting Lamenters (not making it easy on myself, I know) and after watching this I'm debating going all firstborn or mix in some primaris as the troops are better in combat

I'm thinking of starting an all tactical marine lamenters army, and my idea is to convert primaris marines into first born, I know that they'll be out of scale with normal tactical marines but compared with one another they'll be fine

as of rn if you want first born your best bet is definitely going with the newer HH range, which has proper body proportions and truescale in comparison to primaris and guard

The tabbards make the squatting a bit less noticable imo but agree with everything nonetheless

This aged like milk.

i have 6 blood angel tactical squads and a 7th kit bashed into my 2 devistator an assult squads.

i have a old space marine army ( about 2006 type models, i bought it on ebay and many were featured in the battle of macragge box like this medic guy ) and i hate them kinda. the new primars look so much better. not only cause they are taller then the others.

If only they would give us mk7 in HH scale

Thank you so much for This VIDEO! LOVE THE FIRST BORNES. Don't like Primaris! 9:58 NOW in 2016! THE Kill TEAM CASSIUS!

Where do the Space Hulk Terminators scale in?

First of all, I reject this heretical idea that some Tech Priest can make better marines than Emperor of Mankind. 2. I love scale of primaris marines and I cannot look at my old Marines. 3. decided to print out old marines in primaris scale and when I'll have reprinted 1-1 collection that i currently have of my old marines, I'm going to pack my old marines into the box and never look at them again. 4. Because i have more than 300 marines it takes time, but don't worry I'm getting there. 5. most probably I woudln't even buy 3d printer if not because primaris release and my huge collection of out of scale marines

Its why I cant justify buying first-born models, Many of them are goofy looking. We need Ezekial and Azraek,. I've fooled around converting Firtborn using Heresy Marines.

I started an army at the beginning of the pandemic and I have a nearly completely primaris army, and I dislike primaris. Becuase of this, my space marine army has stayed gray. I am thinking about selling it and starting firsborn army, but I'd need more better scaled models

Yeah I see the difference but nah ill stay true to my old models. Too much history and love there for me. Great video though.

Still holding out for a 'Badab' marine kit...

You keep using the word scale, but I think the (internal) scale is pretty good for 1998 marines. They suffer from an issue of posing where a lot of em are squatting down. You missed some marines- there was a paint set in 6th? 7th ed that had 3 pressfit tacticals with nice poses- a bit like the SM heroes range.

Re-release all of 2nd Ed In metal n the 2ed plastic ba kit haha

man talks for 20 minutes about legs: the video

yes

Podger, back in the days when I 1st started collecting Warhammer it was Warhammer fantasy. My 1st few boxes were chaos dwarves, high elves & dark elves but they were moulded with weapon & shields in hand with slots in the bases & cost £5 (what I called pocket money purchases). Then I saw the multi part chaos knights & halberdiers, that changed my thoughts on the hobby as I was a keen collector of TAMIYA 1:35 scale WW2 U.S & German kits. I've never stuck to 40k 1st born stuff I think some weapons are absurdly larger than what the space marine can carry but I have to confess...all my vehicles are 1st born friendly...no good for my primaris boys...😖👎

The "first born" marine figures suffered from having those baby boy legs on bulky bodies and it looks weird once you notice it.

Primaris is the way forward my friend

I love the old scale and old proportions. This is what made GW UNIQUE. Primaris and scaled up Space marines just lost it. GW soul is kind of gone...

I prefer firstborn because of the aesthetic, but they desperately need a rescaling and new units, but gw only chooses to roll out more primaris. I try to stick mainly to firstborn models in my collection.

I’ve got a full 10 man of all lead beakies, they look like children next to Primaris marines.

i like the look of firstborn armor but hate their proportions, they look way too cartoony with their big hands and bubble heads compared to their bodies

I got into 40K back in 6th, but honestly moved over to AOS. 40K scaling is wonky, the new IG are the size of Custodes. Also AOS 3rd is better than 9th and the models are better scale and nicer

Yea you just put them in 3d printer and make them bit bigger

If people mourns for first born be better to start collecting Horus Heresy space marine instead just like I'm doing right now and left Priimaris and Primaris lieutenant universe behind.

Only space marines I actually have are from circa 2002. Blood Angles of course.

Carful you borderline on heresy civilian

3:55 welp, this didnt age well, these right here would ALL be culled just a few months after this video.

So do I understand correctly that you think first born marines have skinny legs?

You are confusing scale with proportion.

It annoys me that the new Heroes blind boxes just reuse old sculpts that we already got in the old series one set and the Space Marine Adventures games, only with fewer characters in total - it's just lazy to not make something new when they could have just re-released the original set instead, at least we'd have another chance at the Captain.

just play 30k

Obviously, HH

firstborn and primaris are getting rolled together in 10th or 11th, you heard it here first. the explanation is going to be something like "doing the Rubikon en masse is not as effective hence the heigth difference and the Imperium cannot afford brand new primaris armor for everyone at once", but the stat lines will be the same for all marines. also, primaris look way better imho, i don't care for boomer opinions

One thing to also consider is that GW changed from using 28mm to 32mm scale. Much of the "First Born are so small" is due to that change.

I have to argue with the statement that the primaris are bland yes the base primaris are bland but so too were first born tactical marines they were also bland, also with new upgrade sprues and new updated chapter specific kits with the black templar and blood angles/ dark angles rumoured to be coming soon that argument of being bland is becoming baseless.

Nah i orefer primaris lore stagnation is the most boring thing in any lore it doesnt helo anything and only reinforces the old stereotype that games workship is too scared to make any changes matter like cadia falling didnt do shit to the amount cadians or that we had entire editions where nothing really of any significance happens Just the conflict of the week war breeds inovation and war can only be fualed by inovation stagnation isnthe death of everything may aswell feed tames workshop to nurgle at the rate the compony was going for years with the setting We finaly have inovation changes that matter and effect the universe as a whole the return of volkite in the 41st melenia , new armors made since the heresy , new plasma weapons , new technology built from technology we ones had

man.... what you call dated and not the right scale is exactly the opposite for me really. I cannot disagree more with you. I think you guys are pushing GW to just lose it s Identity. Super sad.

MK10 Primaris armour just looks garbage. I have a few, and I really don't like the look of them. Yes the sculpts are bigger and more detailed, but the actual design looks goofy as hell in comparison. The proportions are awful.

In our community, we never use the "f-word" to refer to the old "good" space marines. We call them "carlans". We also never use the word "lore" to refer to Warhammer knowledges. We say "background" or "back". And most importantly: no matter how good the old miniatures are (I myself collected a lot of bits from the old Mk6), Primaris are better. Just because Primaris is a true 40k, and any other SM can be anything, especially the Horse heresy, and I can't allow that. The HH is an abomination.

Primaris are awful. I own some (they are so cheap), however they are used by my first born as cannon fodder. I call them Guilliman's Ogryn.

I prefer the firstborn tbh I've recently picked up 3 pewter terminators 😅

Great video. Bolt Rifles and Heavy Bolt Pistols just look stupid.