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Everyone, thank Nick Spencer for retconning this.

Yeah, this or One More Day. The Norman/Gwen part is just so awful. I really find this story depressing.

Quesada: _"Fans wouldn't relate to Peter having kids, it would age him immediately and make him not popular"_ *New Ultimate Spider-Man becomes one of the best retellings and fans, causals and even non comic hardcore people praises a mature, older, father of two happily married to MJ Peter*

If I had a dollar for every superbaby that "grew at an accelerated rate" in a superhero comic, I could probably afford to have kids myself.

The irony of Quesada preaching that he didn’t like the idea of Peter having kids ‘out of wedlock’ but then using the literal Devil to make his idealised take on the character a few years later.

That segment of quoting Joe Quesada felt like watching spiderman get beat over the head with a bat constantly. I have never heard someone not understand spiderman so well till now and want the most uneasccary stuff.

Imagine being JMS writing arguably the most acclaimed Spider-Man run of the 2000s only for this to happen.

My main takeaway from this is that Joe Quesada is the worst thing to happen to Spider-Man.

Tbh Quesada's statement that he didn't "force" JMS to make Norman the father reeks of him just washing his hands of responsibility.

Fairly sure One More Day is more hated than Sins Past or Sins Remembered, even when Sins Past was still canon. I mean for one, Sins Past isn't canon anymore, OMD is. Secondly, even when it was, it's fairly easy to ignore because it's *almost never* brought up again and is very easy to ignore. OMD can't be ignored because its effects are present in every Spider-Man comic set in the main continuity. As for Sins Remembered, most people, aptly don't remember it even existed and it's pretty much forgotten by everyone.

NORMAN UNDENIABLY BANGED MYSTERIO IN A BLONDE WIG

You know, this isn’t better, but Harry could have been the dad. Norman could have still been obsessed with the kids & raising them as his heirs, but it would remove him/Gwen’s gross stuff.

The worst comics aren’t just bad, but actively damage classic stories in retrospect. I still think that one more day is worst, but it’s close.

I actually had the fortune to get the whole lot at my comic shop this month. Even though the story is a pointless retcon, Peter still felt like a grown man instead of the hot-headed dunce he is now.

The reason I hate this story is that they literally had no reason for this retcon, like one more day at the very least serves a purpose, what does this story even do?

You know what's interesting? If this wasn't a Spider-Man story and was something like Elektra having kids with Kingpin and making it a Daredevil story, it might have been really well received. The fact that these decisions went so against the concept of Spider-Man was what really ruined the book.

What I think the one thing people gloss over in what this story ruins is the fact that Norman in NO WAY WOULD CALL HARRY "USELESS" IN THE ERA IT TAKES PLACE. The whole preludo to death of Gwen Stacy is based on the point that for all Norman selfishness there genuine concern for his son and one of dramatic ironies post Gwen death is the fact that Peter treated Harry as more disposable and with more apathy to his condition than Norman did. Sins Past character NUKED everyone involved, not just Gwen and Osborn character is still dead because of being denied being more than selfish monster. EDIT: YAY, Drake mentioned that.

Imagine that Quesada said that Peter having kids is a mistake, And the new Ultimate Universe has Peter having Twins, and looking old

Jill Stacey ran for the hills when she realized everyone that gets near Peter Parker is freaking cursed!

That panel of Norman's sex face is possibly the most cursed panel in comic book history. No one ever needed to see that.

"Most Hated Spiderman Comic" Wait this isn't One More Day

17:25 Apparently Peter failed to understand that doctor-patient confidentiality doesn't apply to visitors and that doctors have to comply with subpoenas and discovery requests. It _does_ apparently prevent a doctor from providing testimony though. Course, all this depends on jurisdiction.

The more time goes on, the more I miss apricate Nick Spencer's time on Spider-Man, and I was always a fan when it was being put out. JMS being tied Sin's Past and One More Day, with context knowing what he wanted to do, and what he didn't, made his tenure still really strong, even with Spider-Totems, Inheritors, The Other mixed in there.

Leave it to Spider-Man to have some of the best and worst stories told in comic books. I'd love to see Sony try to adapt this story.

Why did Quesada think people would care about Peter having sex out of Wedlock!? Who would give a shit about two college students having sex while dating?!

"...despite the fact that he jump at least 100 ft in the rain directly onto the moving truck which he clung to with his fingertips." I don't know man, sounds like an average Joe to me 🤷

"Comic books are weird, people!" - Linkara

It is more painful if you're a big Spidey fan or even worse if you are a big fan of Spider-Man blue but well it's been retconed

I dunno, even after Spencer fixed this I think OMD and BND are the kings of this particular crap mountain.

11:35 Would Peter have even wanted to continue being with Gwen if he had found out about the affair before she died? Then again, that’s way too much brain power wasted on this disgusting story.

Green goblins oh face had me dead 14:30

There is also a Story where Peter is apparently actually Aunt May's SON. As in one story she slept with Ben and Richard. May gets pregnant........but here's the kicker. Ben can't have kids, so the baby May had was....... Peter Parker she gave him to Richard and Mary to raise until they die

Did Joe Q know Flash existed with Wally West who dated, got married, snd had kids and it never ruined the story nor Wally's relationship with his fans? Also, would this story have been better in Peter had been the father? It would certainly be less creepy?

Imagine how funny it would be to show… let’s say the cast of Spectacular Spider-Man the panel that showed Gwen’s affair with Norman. Given that Harry guilt tripped Gwen into staying with him, he’d probably dump her on the spot. Meanwhile Captain Stacy is going to quickly shoot down a returning Norman as quick as Stan Smith gunned down Peter Griffin. Hell if we showed this to the cast of the 2017 cartoon. That show’s Harry is going to channel his inner Ryuji.

Best of luck with Sins Rising! If possible it'd be really nice if you could shine a light on Harry's arc in JMD's Spectacular 178-200 run since despite being a landmark story, the lack of republication outside of two issues has meant it's severely overlooked, and I think that may have led to no one checking the details in the rush to backpeddle from OMD...like entire characterizations and the whole reason the story happens...

wait, if MJ knew about Gwen's affair how would the retcon in Sins Rising be possible? I guess that's gonna come up in part 2

'The most hated Spider-Man comic, no, not that one."

I never knew it was THIS BAD

5:10 "I'm pretty sure I did a good job keeping my identity a secret" proceeds to do ridiculously high jumps and flips

5:00 Peter, clinging to the side of the truck as he makes his getaway: "NO-ONE WILL *EVER KNOW*!!!"

Awesome video! I always knew about the story but not in full detail as well as the spin-offs it had. Also did you tease that you are going to talk about DK Strikes back with that pic in the beginning? That would be a fun vid!

Sins past doesn’t exist, it never did, and if it’s ever brought up again, it wasn’t

This is one instance where Wuesada had a point Imo- Peter having kids looking the Exact Same Age Range as him just seems too wild & would’ve made him appear far older to readers ( he’d need to be about 50-ish).

Fun fact, it was later retconned Gabriel and Sarah were like, artificial beings created by Harry to get revenge on Peter and his dad

The one thing that Sins Past solidified is that Green Goblin will always be Spider-Man's most personal antagonist. It's bad enough that Goblin was the first antagonist to figure out Spider-Man's identity and being able to attack him directly and indirectly and not only kill Gwen Stacy, but he assaults her taking her virginity in the process. That's so evil. It's so sad how Gwen Stacy's character was treated in this story.

This is one of the few times I remember going through a kind of cognitive dissonance and working through it, right at the comic book store. So I pick up the book, flip it open, and BOOM!!! First page, THE VERY FIRST PAGE I open to is Green Goblin's "O-face". It was like the world STOPPED right there for a few minutes. I remember almost every thought I had in vivid detail: "WHAT??!!?! Nooooo...." "Why?! How'd we get here??! I need to know..." "No! No I don't! What're you talking about?!" It went on like this in my head for some time. Then I had like this revelation: "You know, just because you like Spiderman, doesn't mean you gotta buy EVERYTHING that says Spiderman on it." Even though I knew that consciously, finally saying it to myself caused this weight to be lifted from my shoulders as a fan.

I'm very much only on the edge of comic discussions, but I would've assumed the title of "Most hated Spider-Man comic" would've been One More Day

I like videos like this. The creative, or non-creative corporate greed behind the decisions on what we end up reading is always interesting.

When I was first curious about getting into mainstream comics, I picked up an issue of Amazing Spider-Man. It was #512, Sins Past Part Four. Imagine for a moment that this is the year you've seen the second Spider-Man movie released and enjoyed both of them enough to actually buy a Spider-Man comic for the first time in your life. And it's Sins Past part 4, the one with Peter imagining Norman Osborn fucking his girlfriend and Norman's O-face. It was years before I wanted to pick up another Marvel comic book.

‘Sin’s Past’ reminds me of SML’s ‘Rich Joseph’ where it devalues and retcons everything that made a popular character iconic

"The devil did it," and "it was Normon Osborn" are the worst plot twists that continue to plague Spiderman

New camera? looks smooth! also great video Drake! We need more invincible content.

The fact that Quesada concern was that it was out of WEDLOCK and not that it was INCEST is so messed up.

19:12 “SpongeBob! :)”

15:24 working from memory, there are at least two other instances (other than Paul Stacy) where the exact scenario was played, with someone falling from the bridge and Spider-Man thinking that "he run this scenario thousands of times in his head so he won't let it happen again". One during the clone saga where he saves the Gwen Stacy Clone by swinging instead of webbing her, and one during the MK Spider-Man, saving MJ by webbing her in a bunch of places in her body, so the impact won't kill her or something. Understandable that writers would try something like this, but for anyone who has read enough Spider-Man it's very tyring.

22:05 So like BNHA's quirk-destroying drug bullets?

I just learned that JMS's first name is Joseph

Thank you for covering this also good to see a new video! Really miss Peter as a science teacher. Ever think about doing something X-Men related? Been getting really into them lately

Drake, I have never read Sins Past and Sin Remembered, but from the plot synopsises that you gave from both, they sound really truly awful, and bad. I'm glad I have never read it. I'm mind boggled, that Joe Quesada thought it was okay to have the writer J. Michael Strazinski have it be Norman and Gwen had sex and she got pregnant resulting in fraternal twins! This is worse if Peter and Gwen had sex and she got pregnant and had even one baby. As if Peter and Gwen having sex(while they were in college mind you) would have been so horrible. They were in a relationship at least! This is sick and wrong. I just started reading Spider-Man comics few years ago when I found Back To Basics from 2018-2019 written by Nick Spencer and drawn by Ryan Ottley. I really enjoyed their run on Spider-Man, but I wasn't aware J. Michael Strazinski ever wrote any of the comics. I know he created Babylon 5 back in the 90's, but I can't fathom why this story and it's sequel exist. I'm truly offended this got written and published.

I hope you can continue this by going over the Kindred saga one day

that rapid aging thing never made sense to me the goblin serum never turned norman into an old fucking man. Why would it make the kids grow up really really fast?

Holy hell dude I knew abut the kids existing but all tha after with the followup.. wow. Yet another ridiculously in depth deep dive into some of the wierdest unknown history of comics. Great stuff once again.

I would say that One More Day is still the worst Spider-Man book with the worst, most long-lasting repercussions but yeah, Sins Past was horrible. I had no interest in reading Sins Remembered but it sounds even worse. AND this video confirms that Joe Quesada remains Spider-Man's one, true arch-nemesis.

Bro forgot one more day

Whqt makes Spiderman special is the fact that Peter is a regular dude, he has a normal family a normal job, and often struggles with his finances. It makes perfect sense for him to have made some mistakes in his personal life in the past, like having kida out of wedlock. And honestly, the only good reason for not letting Peter have kids is that he just can't afford it, as he's either a public school teacher or underpaid researcher, and also because being Spiderman doesn't allow him the time to properly raise a child.

I'm so happy Nick Spencer retconned this in his Spider-Man comics

That one tidbit about Joe Quesada helping the NES launch in America made me go through an interesting read. Welp, guess that's one thing I have to thank him for out of all the things he's done.

Hey there. Here is an idea for a video topic that would be completely up your alley: Agents of Atlas. During the period between the gold and silver age (between Timely and Marvel) Atlas Comics had a few superhero-esque characters. The characters debuted as a team in "What If" in 1979 and in 2006 they brought into the main universe with miniseries. I have done a search on KZfaq and there really isn't any good videos on this team.

I’m happy to see you back.

With all the good and bad stories about this guy, you think it’s an obligation to write Peter having a bad life after he gets he’s act together and begins to be happy

Peter threatened a cop's family? He should have went to the daily bugle right after.

Quesada looking at a best selling book: "Oh no, it won't sell"

I feel like you are misrepresenting Quesada a little in this story. Yes, his decisions around Spidey sucked, but there was definitely a reason he wanted to 'keep Sins Past canon'. JMS wasn't pitching Sins Past being decanonized, he was pitching a complete reboot of Spider-Man canon going back to the 60s that would ultimately have as consequence that that got rebooted as well. Just to note, this would also have included Gwen still alive. Quesada was honestly correct to throw that pitch out.

When Spider-Man editorial squeezing the blood out of every stone they find

I'm having ptsd of this comic run on all the negative stuff.

I truly enjoy the way you delve into the history of the comic universe! Great job as usual! I actually consider sins remembered as a guilty pleasure. However I agree that both of these storylines are messy in nature and that they are definitely not good examples of true Spidey top lure! Always enjoy watching your channel!

One of the few times Marvel immediately walked back on a retcon 😂 with a follow up story basically reducing Sin's Past to a prank by Norman lol

If I had a nickel for every time a comic writer in the 2000s used a classic tale as the basis for their story, only to make major continuity errors, then I’d have THREE nickels. Which still isn’t a lot, but it’s weird that it’s happened more than twice.

2:39 I want to see those things get adapted into a faithful animated series

Welcome back king. You've been missed

The retcon was difficult and messy, but they did fix it.

Where'd you get that Shirt???

Honestly people would still be able to connect with Spider Man regardless if he’s older or not, so it would’ve been fine if they were made to be Peter’s kids.🐱

"Fans wouldnt like it if their hero got old!" Meanwhile Goku is a grand father and fans still love him

12:34 “There is no way on planet earth that I could let him have kids” And that, my friends, is why most Marvel writers refuse to let Spider-Man progress. Because of stupid takes like these.

I hate this story, but Spider-Man has a clear top 5 worst stories. 1.) One More Day 2.) Sins Past 3.) Zeb Wells Spider-Man 4.) Clone Saga 5.) Everything Outside of Superior Spider-Man, by Dan Scott

Do you have merch? I wanna buy a Comic Drake shirt

00:12 "Generic white guy with glasses" Yeah, but you are OUR generic white guy with glasses

Just another comic Marvel tries to forget happened...

oh this one....Sin's past happened to be the first comic book I picked up at newsstand. The story was controversial to be least. I did find it interesting of what became of Gabriel and Sarah.

🗣️🗣️🗣️ALEX LENNEN MENTIONED WHAT THE FUCK IS A BAD COMIC ANALYSIS🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️

I love that you're having Panda Redd in more of your videos

One More Day is worse simply because it's still canon

This book put Spider-Man on the ropes...OMD curb-stomped him all the way. They've never recovered.

Keep it up on your work and this video and channel I love this video and channel Thanks you for your video and channel I love marvel Spider-Man All franchise

Why don’t we just hard reboot? Like, burn everything from the last 60 years and write a Spider-Man comic without using more than a paragraph of familiar context? I’m tired of seeing a wonderful history tarnished by short-term greed, I’m tired of continuity becoming a subjective war without end, and I’m tired of seeing the craziest connections spun for a few dudes’ entertainment. A palate cleanser is the easiest to write if you hire an actually creative team, and it’s easiest to sell since no one’s going to be scared away by scale or tone. Why isn’t that happening right now?

The most hated? More than One More Day? Nah, it's the most disgusting probably but we don't hate it as much as we pretend it never happened. We can't ignore One More Day, we suffer the consequences. In "One More Day," Aunt May is shot and dying when Mephisto (the Marvel version of the devil) appears. Mephisto offers to save Aunt May if Peter will sacrifice his marriage. Every day with Paul and Jackpot is a reminder of how much I hate that comic.

19:09 KANEDA! TETSUO! KHAN!

Thank god sins past retconned out of existence as of late, because holy shit sins past as a story did so much damage to Gwen Stacy character at marvel comics that i wasn't even funny but just sad depressing and just proves my point more and more that marvel really hates Peter parker Spider-Man being happy at least in my opinion.