That Lex wasn’t aware of the calculation problem under socialist management is emblematic of the educational bias. That should be common knowledge.

Michael looks like Lex in 15 years.

I like this Malice guy

Lex didnt quite get it. It is not about perfect information, there is no such thing. But dynamic, ever evolving information being created all the time.

I’d love to see Michael malice debate Richard Wolff.

What's the name of the book Michael is talking about?

One of the reasons why the Holocaust is remembered so much more is that the people killed in it were among the wealthiest and most literate and socially well-connected victims of genocide ever.

I loved this podcast. It had an older brother and younger brother vib to me. One playfully ribbing the other constantly and both laughing at it. Cant wait to see another of these.

So... If we have information in capitalism, why it vanishes in communism?

Depends on the nation. Communist Yugoslavia even made a car. After communism ended it became a civil war hell hole.

Michael Malice is also on the Tim Pool podcast so he gets some viewership

I would very much like to see you interview Richard Wolff

At the end of the day greed and self importance will trump any well meaning political and economic ideology.

Not that theres not enough information. Theres too much for a monopoly to know what to do with. They can't process that much. A bad capitalist monopoly and a government monopoly can only make one size fits all solutions to problems. A proper non monopoly capitalist country allows for everyone to make their own stuff, their own weight solutions. It allows for personalized customization.

Great podcast

I like the idea of everybody being equal in a society BUT theres no way to do that shit right lol

@530. Is that what covid over reaction is? They want to go cashless and track every transaction under the guise of "contact tracing" so can really have a better socialist system. Let gov become a micromanaging parent or partner. That's always a good conversation when the wife comes at you with this month's bank statement.

Lex is glitching out trying to play the Devil's advocate for communism. These mental gymnastics took all of his RAM.

Lex, you should talk to Yeonmi Park about communism.

This Stalin guy.....that guys a real jerk.

Price could be replaced by thermodynamic expenditure in an automated/machine AI based system could it not? Telling people what to do is not necessary in a system based on such AI/machine labour right? It does not require monopoly in such a system either as it could be a distributed system of locally developed forks of a larger whole corresponding to supply and demand for different solutions and preferences.

Honecker died in exile in Chile of liver cancer. Germany was going to put him on trial for human rights abuses but did not because he had terminal cancer.

Lenin had said that Stalin was his right hand man. If someone like Stalin is your right hand man then you are not good

i dont know dude, im from an ex yugoslav country and the standard of living was much higher during socialism than now during capitalism

Get more anarchist on Lex

you say they were starved but you never say why it happpen it

“Western media”

different kind of people..Very tough and brave 💪 GO FREEDOM..

I assume you don't think we are capitalism either. In a capitalist society, there is no bailout or handout for failing businesses. All act of kindness are through volunteerism. There is no law asking you to help anyone and vice versa. The government sole purpose is to keep order and enforcing laws that have been made by the people. They can arrest the bad actors who are violating the law, like manipulating the free market. They themselves can't inject trillions upon trillions of dollars to keep the market up while the economy is failing.

Thank God for our constitution

You should get sadhguru on and ask him the meaning of life

Cuz those diamonds are worth every penny.

There's no manipulation of information in capitalism - I am looking at 2008 GFC.

Some people think socialism = free healthcare... Not many know socialism = no private property, and no Individual Rights

4:37 fucking nailed it 👍

They are getting all the data guys ... Watch the social dilemma

Anything that interferes with free will is wicked

me when I'm an expert at making shit up:

The stalinism that arose in USSR in the mid-1920's was a consequence of the inheritance of cultural and economic backwardness, isolation, failure of the spread of socialist revolution into western Europe, the weariness of workers from ww1, civil war, military intervention by 21 foreign armies. Despite that degeneration of the Russian Revolution, the planned economy stayed in place. And performed amazingly. Transformed the backward nation into an economic powerhouse. From famine during the civil war, to the bureaucratic mismanagement in Ukraine to being invaded by Nazis and having 15 million civilian deaths and 10 millions soldiers deaths, DESPITE ALL THAT, USSR sent the first object into outer space and the first man into outer space, before USA. DEFEAtED the nazis, saved Europe from Nazis. That shows the economic superiority of state planning. We need to move forward from capitalism, abolish it, move to next stage of human history, advance civilization on a world socialist basis, it's a world-historic task, capitalism has exhausted its progressive role for humanity. That does NOT mean fighting to restore Stalinism.

Two neat guys! Lex - watch the documentary, "All Wars Are Banker's Wars" to get a sense of who is responsible for WWII.

Asked about social democracy, he responds with (supposed) flaws of communism...

Does anybody watch the KZfaq channel second thought?

From Vietnam to Iraq.

I think certain elements of Mussolini’s policies- particularly concerning the redevelopment of the vast swamps south of Rome (Agropontino)- such as autarky and incentivized development, bonuses for new families/households, and the prioritization of sanitation, education, and even exercise, could be of net benefit in places experiencing economic and demographic crises.

Just go to Venezuela and find out.

That dude in a suit seems as high as a 🪁

Year 2020 out there and people still referring to the "calculation argument" as a reason why plan economy is impossible ...

The ability of people to list the issues with Socialism and they list things we are experiencing in Capitalism, currently, is bewildering

What about British liberalism? What about stuff in America? Every nation has examples of great and general inhumanity in the face of national ambition...

When they talk about information in terms of economies they basically lay out Keynsian economics

A guy named Malice telling us whats evil.

I love the way Michael Malice articulates his answers. It would be fun to chew the fat with him

I think it's interesting. The answer, as it is with so many things, lies in the middle.

Follow the money 1666 .

Better information under capitalism, like how if people need a life saving drug they will pay literally anything for it? Cool.

While I agree with the general sentiment behind what Malice is saying here, it's obvious that he's very confused about the differences between socialism and communism, and democracy and capitalism. Edit: I didn't realize he considered himself an anarchist (just looked him up). No wonder he's ignorant about this topic.

democracy is not capitalism they are equating the two socialism does not mean no capitalism... mixing economic and political systems is ignorant

Please read both "The Naked Communist" and "The Naked Capitalist" to understand how they work together to create a binary control system.

Tell that to the native americans.

Bring Paul Cockshott on. He knows how to talk about calculation under socialism. And he studied math unlike most capitalism critics

"They talk about the failure of socialism but where is the success of capitalism in Africa, Asia and Latin America?" - Fidel Castro

Lex tries so hard to come off as an intellectual and Malice does it so naturally hahah

This guys characterization of socialism and his 3 reasons are straw men. Built up to be easily torn down.

Evil >:(

Technically the Soviet union wasn't communist. Communism requires a dissolving of the government which never happened. That's why there has never been a trully communist country because once a central government has a lot of power the officials never give up power to the people. The name real name was the Union Soviet SOCIALIST Reubuplics, USSR. Not arguing for communism or capitalism, just pointing out a common misconception.

Hmph. Sharing the works of ones labor is evil? Giving everything to the already rich is good? History teaches winner-take-all systems (warrior-barbarism, slavery, monarchies, feudalism) paved the way for human progress? Yea sure....i guess up is down, and down is up too.

4:37 Well I agree with statement 1, no one has the right to tell us how to live our lives but statement 2 has nothing to do with monetary prices as he implies, but everything to do with data. There's nothing to say you couldn't quantify the value of a good based on its supply and demand data. Technically, you don't need monetary prices to determine this as data is the main metric and price is what we use bc we don't have a single transparent aggregate supply and demand of existing resources. 3 rightly implies force is bad but that there's no force under capitalism, which is unequivocally untrue. For instance, the capitalist says, Accept you need money to buy sth I claim is my property and I will let you have it for an agreed price, otherwise go live in the woods. This isn't forcing me to do sth? This is forcing me to go and do sth I don't want to do (work in a factory) just to earn enough money to buy sth from you that should be a public good. Then and only then can I go and do what I actually want to do free from force imposed upon me by capitalists

I take it that you are talking about full out socialism. That is not what progressives are in favor of. We still want capitalism but it needs to be fair, in other the workers have the right to unionize and the rich pay their fair share of income tax. We are right now partially socialistic, we all pay taxes to build our roads and schoold, police, firefighters and many other programs, the progressives just want more programs. We are nearing the point in this country where you will only be rich if you're born that way. Of course there are many examples of people coming up to the top on their own. Some of is luck some is just one good idea, but once you start to get rich the easier it gets to get richer. By the way I personally know at least three self made millionaires. I won't give examples but one was lucky, one was just a hard worker all of his life of many years and had the courage the take the risk and put in the hard work to get it done.

wtf

Socialism is Communism using a carrot instead of a stick.

Capitalism, socialism, communism, etc. are economic systems, Period. Each has its pros & cons.

dont forget that Hitler was a socialist.

lex can you please have more leftists on your show. it's tough seeing all of these capitalist apologists skate by without being held to task for their claims

Its sad to see how far Lex has fallen! Nowadays he brings up J. Peterson, Communism is worse than Nazism trope, Ayan Rand blah blah, almost like a tick. He is like that proverbial chrysalis that is undergoing a sinister metamorphosis. His interview with his Dad hinted at the dark generational trauma that he likely never recovered from. Hope he finds real healing soon.

Not an intelligent exchange here. Dr. Richard Wolff’s response vid to Jordan Peterson totally demolishes this weak characterization of “socialism” in less than five minutes. Let’s also remember that near unfettered capitalism is what’s gotten us into the wealth disparity disaster we currently find ourselves in. Do better to elevate the conversation.

HEY LEX! You seem to be smart guy. Why instead of this lame click bait title, you would invite actual Marxist, to teach you about what it is, and what the difference between marxism, Soviet Russia, China, and would be great to hear what all those capitalist countries didn't do also of what they accuse those so called communist countries.

Imho, I think communism can theoretically work if everyone looks, acts and thinks the same. *shudders*

African American slavery is equivalent to the holocaust no question I learned from my jewish friends to "never forget" but my jewish friends that are not forget about my peoples holocaust I'll tell my son's to never forget and you can't let it ever happen be said or Heard

I mean the guy is called Michael MALICE surely he knows something about evil.

Americans defend conservatism by saying many people are selfish. Isn’t this only true because of the U.S. containing lots of selfish people? Isn’t the proper thing to prevent countries of far-right people so there isn’t a state of many being selfish? _____ Pure capitalism is geared toward the most competitive people. Communism is geared toward the most cooperative. Mixed capitalism is geared toward centrists. We need a political system where everyone has equal desire-fulfillment and also must make equal amounts of sacrifice. A certain state of mind appearing intrinsically better (when going by the philosophical paradigms common in one’s own time) doesn’t mean that it *is* intrinsically better. Andrew White Cleary Twitter: @username_wc

Its funny how smart americans always have this narrow minded thinking when it comes to political ideologies and especially socialism. Americans have always been led by their two parties, one which is called the left, but in reality they are a far right compared to the many different ideologies that operate around the world. In Sweden we have a hybrid of socialism and capitalism and compared to the US this would be called communism today, which is outragious. And yes the living conditions here are far better that the US. And thats just one small comparision out of many.

The issue is that these blanket generalized statements of very complex systems very vary case by case I always find ridiculous. Anyone who says "Capitalism is all good, or all bad, or likewise that Socialism is all bad or all good" I think are religious zealots. Selling dogma not economic science. There are clearly things that have worked better under socialism, public education is better in socialised systems period. The data is 100% clear, there isn't even any debate. Countries like Finland, Canada, Denmark, Germany, Sweden, Norway, etc kick ass on education compared to messed up systems like the US where they try to inject money into what is not something you want to treat as a commodity otherwise you end up in thirdworld country scenario, where only the wealthy kids are educated and the rest are doomed to either be rich crooks, or blue collar workers if they are extremely lucky. Which is exactly what has happened in the use as education has been more privatized the level of education for the average american sucks, and places like Finland which spend a fraction of the money that the US spends per kid have far far better outcomes. Medicare, same, far better in all socialized medicine countries then the US where it currently sits at 90th place or lower for the 99% of americans compared to Canadians, Fins, Dutch, Germans, Scandinavian countries, the UK even far better then the US. But as soon as the government takes over making shirts, or computers, or cars, that is where things go 100% to pot. So no one wants a car designed by socialism, or a fashion designer by committee, etc. The chinese 'suit' is not considered the height of fashion. And monopolies if you have 5 guys in a communist country sitting around dictating the price of milk, or insulin, that is clearly a terrible thing, but then when the same bloody thing happens in the US under unbridled crony capitalism, where 2-3 ceo's are setting the price, or sometimes even 1 guy is setting the price of insulin and other life saving drugs, that is clearly f---ed as well. Who cares what you call it, if the result is that Putin decides what is sold and what is not nationally, or Jeff Bezos and Zuckerberg and the Wallmart Family are deciding pretty much which products will succeed on a massive scale and which will die because they never show up in any searches, it clearly is not that different. Crony capitalism, vs totalitarian communism have far too much in common. As Trostky pointed out, where he might have been wrong in his solution, having far too much faith in his brother to not be corrupted by ultimate power, he did however see something things well, like the fact that the result of capitalism in the US would be crony capitalism which for all it's pretend democracy would end up no different then having kinds and emperors all over again, how is having a Jeff Bezos who has more wealth then 60% american house holds combined, any different then a monarch who owns everything. They both own everything, and serfs only can 'rent' off their land in a job that is designed to never allow for the people doing it to have even money to escape the bounds of poverty if they were to lose that job, and would in a month or two be back to owning nothing. So I hate this 'capitalism is this all powerful god who will ensure that everything is 'fair' and 'good' if we just let it alone'. When clearly democracy has long gone in the US, by every statistical look at the facts, people's votes no longer mean anything, they have zero effect on policy, or what bill is past. Zero, the only people whose opinion counts are the rich and lobby groups. Period. The average person's vote has no effect on what bill is voted in or not. None. So this bs about putting dogmatic faith in capitalism without checks itself is just ignorant as believing fairy tales. There proof very much shows that the opposite is true. Capitalism leads to cronyism, and the corruption of whatever system is there to protect the people's interest are subverted and the end result if you again have a few men/women who now again are royalty, and who get to decide whatever bill they want passed is passed, whatever leader they want gets in, if they put their money into, pretty much does whatever they are told, by the koch family, the bezos, etc. There needs to be another Roosevelt come in and turn American around, and let the rest of the world follow suit as it does with America. American's place as the 'shinning light on the hill' is only such because of Roosevelt implementing laws, and bills that created a super strong middle class, which then made America not only the envy of the world for that dream of having security for your family etc, but it also allowed America to have such a strong backbone of socialized infrastructure that she was no doubt instantly the world's biggest super power, without the dams that socialized make work programs, the steal factories that were birthed on the backs of these make work programs that Roosevelt instituted in the New Deal to end the Great Depression, this idea that any man who wanted to work would have a job, and that that labor was used to build the backbone of america, that is what she needs again. A strong middle class, inequality back down to non-absurb levels, etc... And that isn't going to happen just because you let the price of goods be dictated by whatever crony capitalist system has been established now to guarantee that the people in power now stay there... Without real belief in the right tool for the right job, none of this horseshit religious dogma around capitalism or any 'ism''s. Ideology just makes blind idiots as far as i can tell no matter what the 'ism' is behind it...

Give it 50-100 years and many will call the man with the tiny moustache a great leader. History is defined by perspective.

Lex was trying really hard to relate to this pleb

4:37 is Michael Malice describing capitalism? Listening to America right wingers about socialism is like listening to flat earthers about science

Malice: Socialism is evil but not enough information. That sums it it for the stupidity of capitalism.

Leninism/ Bolshevism/ maoism is not synonymous with communism.

Bruh. Michael Malice is from Lviv and that's the Western Ukraine, does he even know that Lviv was not in the USSR in early 30s? It was annexed from Ukraine by Poland during Polish-Soviet War but there was famine too. So things people are talking about so called Holodomor are nonsense.

I think it's a bit disingenuous to toggle between communism and socialism as if they are the same thing (it's a very simplistic dare I say, American either/or pov). Social democracies like we find Scandinavia, or the Netherlands or New Zealand or Canada all boast higher standards of living and general quality of life than you find in countries dominated by either ideology; neoliberal capitalism or communism. It's ridiculous to compare Sweden or New Zealand to Venezuela or Soviet Russia. Historically, these various communist experiments have been complete horrors shows; as a utopian idea it's been roundly discredited. But narrow ideological capitalism, as well, I'd argue is equally evil; we're literally destroying our planet out from under us in our ideological obsession to perpetual growth and blind consumerism and accumulation of wealth. It perpetuates child and virtual slave labour in poor countries so a slim minority of extremely wealthy can continue to accumulate even more wealth, it finds no value to sustainability, it denies people basic access to education or health care if they can't afford it. It decimates local economies so multinational corporations can set up monopolies. There needs to be a middle ground. As a "good vs evil" dialectic, Communism vs Capitalism is a tired 19th century idea. The real dialectic is between empathy, sustainability, collaboration and social responsibility vs greed, destruction, exploitation and self interest. I'm not sure anarchism is the way to go though. It's just as individualistic as capitalism. We been organizing ourselves into societies in some form or other since mesopotamia; as far as I'm aware, anarchism has never been a viable model. Even an anarchist needs to rely on their wider community to some extent - who will put out your house when it catches fire? Who's going to deal with your waste?

propaganda

Narrative views. Look at China and the 20% world population today, how do they enjoy life and expect more prosperity. China had and has market economy historically, like Silk Road. China communism was imported from France, Germany and Russia, the CCP fought 20 years bloody wars against West and Japan for China independence. China today is world No. 2 economy under communist party. Why don't you talk about communism in China? A type of mixing state politics and market driven economy. There are more dollar millioners in China than USA. Lex, you need to go to visit China.

Who funnded Lenin. Marx. Tolstoy. 1666. F o l l o w THE $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

I don’t think it’s inherently evil - we’re just no where near developed for it.

No many Americans don't think Ukraine and Russia are the same thing. It took me less than a minute and a half into this video, to figure out you two think you're way smarter than you are.

Yeah this conversation was going nowhere ,we have a lot to thank communism for here in the USA everything from child labor laws,to minimum wage increases these “communism is evil”talking points falls flat on there faces when confronted with this reality every single time

PROPAGANDA

Lex , this was the most anti-intellectual video I've seen on your channel, this basically boiled down to some stereotypical arguments on why Communism must be bad and evil because of some anti-socialism talking points and because bad people that did bad things said they were communists. so that makes all communists and ideas associated with communism inherently evil? I think it would be much more true to the hard analytic and intellectual nature of your channel's content to have more good faith talks on this subject of economics with more good faith and well-informed people , some great ones would be Richard Wolff or Yanis Varoufakis if you want their side of these arguments, the historian you had on about Stalin was much more interesting and truthful than this dribel.

Michael Malice is the type of guy that's funny until he isn't. He's agreeing that communism is bad, yet the system he wants is basically whatever they got going on in the Mad Max movies. Why is this guy being taken serious at all? I'm not for communism either before any of you remedial people start coming at me.

Down with communists & socialists alike.

How many would have died in China and Russia if there wasn't communism?