My parents taught me to think for myself with encouragement to be a good person and be kind. Some of Ayn Rands books where in my house at various times in the 50's and 60's but never got the feeling she was a cult figure. I read Rand in my early years but her writing was not exciting enough for me but her concepts of individuality were effective.

Michael Malice looks just like Ayn Rand.

Everyone I have met that has claimed to hate Ayn Rand ..on further investigation I find they have not read her…they take the opinion of others ..

The "money" speech by Francisco is absolutely brilliant.

I read some of her essays years ago (70's -80's). Her novels were much too long for me. Because I'm fascinated with language I read her explanation of the term laissez faire capitalism. It was during the time of Louis XIV, the sun king. Louis sent his finance minister to meet with the leading business leaders of the day to ask, what can we do to help you. One brave soul spoke up and said "Laissez nous faire:" (Leave us alone)

I was old -- I was introduced to Rand in my early 30's. I read Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged (in the proper sequence of course) and I had been fore-warned about Galt's 80 page speech, which did seem somewhat daunting, but when I got to it I had no trouble reading and rejoicing in it -- It summarized so eloquently, a personal philosophy which I had spent many years trying to synthesize, She changed my life. I was so privileged to hear her speak twice at Ford Hall Forum in Boston. Her mind was so quick that, yes, she did appear abrupt and curt, but that was just her brilliant mind already 2 pages ahead of everyone else (including those poor college students who did, honestly, ask silly questions. Unfortunately, I doubt those talks were recorded. Alas.

I went through my Rand stage 30 years ago and have long wondered if Miss Rand would have changed some of her views if she had children.

Rands' philosophys lead to self responsibility, also I don't think the majority of people will ever understand free will and self determination.

I first learned of Rand via Neil Peart. And The 2112 Album by RUSH. 10:09 "Prevalent In Culture" 11:33 "Fearhold On Freedom" 12:15 "Freedom Versus Feelings Versus Facts" 19:27 "The Job, and The Wife and The Compromises,... And The Comfort" 19:33

Came across your page and this video today. I love stimulating and thought provoking conversations. Keep it up!

Discovering Ayn Rand in the bookstore changed my life for the better. Altruism is used by big government to gain power over masses. I think she would argue that it's beneficial to be altruistic when it's not forced. If done by choice it is beneficial. Besides, there are two sides to every coin.

The funny thing about this, and so many discussions of Rand, is why We The Living rarely gets mentioned. I have the DVD of the movie made of it (not easy to find) and it's basically an early autobiography of her life during the Russian Revolution and it's right up there with Dr. Zhivago in bringing the revolution's horrors to light. Also read the novel and it's amazing how accurate the movie is to the novel.

I read The Fountainhead when I was 14. Quite literally changed the course of my life. Subtlety, but without question a change of course

"Well, I know they've always told you selfishness was wrong. Yet it was for me, not you, I came to write this song." - Lyrics to the song Anthem by Rush.

Love the last few minutes of this talk. Great discussion. Thanks for sharing 👍

While I don't agree that it is necessarily immoral to live for other people like Rand did, it is demonstrably immoral to force someone to live for other people. Most people today believe that helping other people is morally virtuous, and I tend to agree, but that ideal has been twisted into the concept that nobody would help another person if they were not forced to do so, so we must force them through taxation, ultimately funding welfare programs, infrastructure, etc. Then, those who believe everyone must be forced to help others simply shout anyone down that disagrees, decrying them as selfish and greedy - when in reality, we just don't want a government gun pointed at our heads FORCING us to contribute.

I read Ayn Rand s Fountainhead at 16 years old Atlas Shrugged at 19 and the rest by 25…I saw Ayn Rand speak at the Ford Forum in Boston in 1973 ish…she wore a coral color dress…she changed my life …my children and grandchildren all believe in objectivism and have read Rand too..I’m 70 now and have lived my life by Rands ideas..lol mostly!

Hey Lex, more of this. Other lightning bolt intellectuals, conflicting perspectives/personalities from admirers/students/advocates. Bright, intelligent, considered, sincere, committed individuals. Really enjoyed this. Gratitude!

Rand really went overboard with the "selfishness is the highest good" thing." There's a place for selfishness but humans evolved as social creatures with a strong instinct to contribute to the common good.

I've never read Rand but I've listened to a lot of Rush.

I don’t dislike her; we were never acquainted. I do find her writing tedious.

I haven't read those other ones, but Anthem by Ayn Rand is amazing. Short, sweet, to the point: a dystopian classic.

Atlas Shrugged coupled with the movie Idiocracy: Now a reality

Using the altruism term is a dualistic partisan trap. Someone called me altruistic once. I'm not altruistic. I don't want to be a martyr. I don't want to sacrifice myself for others. I want what's good for me. But not just for me. For everyone. What's good for everyone is good for everyone. What's good for some and not others is bad for everyone. Detrimental. Fatal even. That's what we need to learn in this world. The individual and the collective are both important. If I fight for my own rights it's not just for me. It extends to everyone. This is how I live my life. I fight for my rights to take precedent over government and developers taking over land around me. Then I join with my neighbors to support their rights the same. During the pandemic, under quarantine, I use protocols to protect others which in turn protects me as well. I definitely felt my instinct to protect my species there. I want a living wage. I want everyone to have a living wage. It's obviously doable. Better for everyone. Those who fight against it are making more than living wages but what's good for some but not others is bad for them as well. There are consequences in what is not sustainable. That extends to the whole of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Standard of living. Health and well being. Freedom of speech and belief. All of it.

thank you for having this webcast. it truly has enriched my life. you not interrupting guest is truly so good i forgot what a great host should do. your silence sometime is pure genius

I never read Rand’s more popular books. She won me over with this small, short book, “The Virtue of Selfishness”. I was young, late 20’s, and profoundly impressed with her message, but more so by her command of the language and vocabulary.

That was very helpful, about Rand of course but also about Malice and Brook. Thank you.

I am 65, I read atlas shrugs at the age of 45, and the fountain head, when I was 50 while working as a security contractor in Iraq. There is no wrong order, and I have reread both since.

I finally understand the selfishness. It's about acknowledging your OWN sovereignty and your OWN importance. Take of yourself and protect your rights like you would for the community. And if everyone does that the community becomes very strong

Michael, Caps Lock had a little forerunner called Shift Lock.

I just do not understand why so many people hate Ayn Rand, i do not agree with her about everything, but i see the good points and there is more to learn than more to disagree...

While it's possible for some people to be completely self-interested and still contribute positively to society, when there are too many purely self-interested people in places of power the society will become dysfunctional... and possibly violent. If a huge chunk of society is just outright neglected because the system can't find a place for them whatsoever, they are extremely unlikely to abide by rules set by people in power. Certainly not if their survival itself becomes difficult. People always make the claim that socialism fails due to human nature, but don't realize that the same criticism applies to capitalism whenever it goes too far in concentrating wealth on one end and neglecting a large chunk of people on the other. Fighting for survival is human nature too, and so is violence. People will fight and steal if there is no other choice. They will also band together. Just read history. The stability of society clearly requires at least a middle ground.

Yaron at 10:00: "if you talk about the ideas... and oh, BTW: this came from Ayn Rand." *Yes*. All that. About fifteen years ago, in my various posts, I began referring to "That Woman Whose Dread Name Cannot Be Mentioned In Polite Company". It was a sort-of inside joke for people who knew the problem. The solution is to completely integrate her ideas in one's own thinking and argue them in original style, without attribution, until the opposition has begun to reason. That's when to pop the attribution.

Two reasons why Rand is so disliked: 1/ She had a caustic public persona -- She attacked everyone, even those who agreed with most of her ideas (right-libertarians, conservatives, Christians). And she cultivated a cult of personality which drew derision from everyone on the outside. 2/ Our present zeitgeist is overwhelmingly dominated by Marxism, Critical Theory, and Postmodernism. Which advance the ideas that there is no such thing objective truth, and that all human interaction is a power struggle between collectives stratified by class, race, gender. Individuality, rational self-interest, and objectivity (objectivity beyond the walls of Critical Theory) are viciously attacked, censored, and sometimes treated as domestic terrorism. In other words, we live in a Fountainhead alternate universe where Ellsworth Toohey won.

Empathy has no bearing without action, that my viewpoint, but remember to save time for yourself.

Maybe one of your best Lex. I read Atlas when young, my dad's favorite. It was a large part of my singing in a punk band in 1984 about government corruption. I was outcasted then because society did not see the future we are now living. I published my book 18 years ago and discussed what I thought was coming... I found it doesn't matter how loud I sang or the words I used, some people are not going to hear.

Because being closer to truth while still denying truth is slightly better, but still leading toward falsehood.

Aw geez.. I read Atlas Shrugged and am going to read the Fountainhead, and now I'm informed this order of reading is not a great decision? Well.. I'm going to read it anyway...

6:27 Michael Malice, a typewriter has a mechanical slotted locking key named the caps-lock key. To unlock the caps-lock, you just press down on the shift key again--and the slotted section with an L-shaped bend pops back out of there to get lowercase by default again. No one back then had to keep pressing with one finger to keep the capital letters coming out like you are trying to paint as a mental picture. Our family had an old mechanical typewriter a bunch of years prior to having an electric typewriter.

It's extreamly hard for people to admit they're wrong.

if you look at America today and the road we are on, you have to wonder what kind of crystal ball Ayn Rand was looking into.

Even though it was a poor critique of Objectivism, I honestly think the otherwise excellent video game Bioshock is one biggest reasons why younger people (idk, lets say under 30 or 40) are more curious about Rand's ideas. They are novel concepts to a lot of people, and even though it's kind of a critique (or at least a hyperbolic deconstruction of her ideas gone wrong), her ideas being attached to something almost universally considered to be of high quality rubs off. I've heard quite a few people say that this game was what got them curious about reading Atlas Shrugged and The Fountainhead.

Smashing everything is ethical and moral at times. To say it isn’t is to fail to see the ability to slowly boil and reject the immediacy to rectify the wrong. The issue is WHEN is it ethical to do so.

It’s possibly best to answer the “I’m scared” with an “I’m scared that this that I love”

In my twenties I read a great deal of what Ayn Rand had written, both her novels and her essays. Additionally, I studied with her "intellectual heir" Leonard Peikoff. I know Ayn Rand's work quite well. I'm now 75 years old and I can honestly say that my opinion of her hasn't changed. Her politics is excellent, her ethics is good, her metaphysics and epistemology are fair, but better than most. Her novels are awful! They're cartoonish. That anyone would be enthralled by her novels, as many people are (mostly, but not only, young people) is a mystery to me. Why is she so hated? In addition to the things your guests say, there's the additional fact of her style - she's extremely aggressive and dismissive of others. The result is that those others respond by being aggressive and dismissive of her. I think that if Rand had been less aggressive and less dismissive of others (and by 'others' I mean almost everyone else), her ideas would have been much more widely accepted. BTW, Leonard Peikoff is far and away the very best professor I ever had.

Well my reason is her «Romantic Manifesto» where she claims that the best art should be of «a beautiful woman in an evening dress» or that the height of dance is tap-dancing. To paraphrase CS Lewis, whom she hated with a particular vehemence, «After a person has said that, why attend to anything else she has said on any subject in the whole world?».

Really great discussion! Malice and Yaron get along like a house on fire. Definitely gonna watch the whole interview soon, but what I would like to see even more now is a LOOOONG conversation between Yaron and Jordan Peterson on the topic of just how well Rand's ideas actually integrate with Peterson's. The key is her analysis of rational self-interest and its many, MANY points of congruence with Peterson's prescription of looking at life as a series of iterative games over all aspects of your life and with the longest possible view. With that bridge built, I really want to see Jordan sink his teeth into the many implications that Rand draws from that view! Well, a man can dream...

Loved this!

I enjoy all principals & the stimulating conversation. Manufactured groupthink still obtains in societies and workplaces, creating danger for anyone questioning orthodox talking points. Therefore the Howard Roark dilemma continues to have relevance.

I love this Malice guy, and the Yaron Brooks guy is cool too.

I don't think Rand recognized "irrational selfishness" in her zeal to lionize the virtue of selfishness. Yaron implied that he agreed. It's a basic editorial fallacy to define something as only its good version. I think Rand called it the "frozen abstraction" fallacy. The idea that one cannot reason incorrectly, held by some Objectivists, also partakes of that fallacy. If you reason wrongly, they argue, you aren't truly reasoning. By that token, if you do math incorrectly, you aren't really doing math. If you think inaccurately, you aren't truly thinking. And so on.

Wonderful chat. Most enjoyable to listen to. Cheers...

I guessed I’m a crazy. Behavior that is rewarded is behavior that is repeated. I think the modern incentive system is totally screwing things up.

I read her book, Atlas Shrugged, at age 14 and it changed my life!!

She was a friend of my husband’s family. We found letters online giving his uncle dating advice. His uncle financed The Fountainhead movie.

I've always believed her extreme positions were a reaction to all that she saw in the Soviet. Many Russians viewed the 1900's as the Century which would be theirs, prosperity, freedom, progress etc. Ayn probably felt she must be an absolute anti.

I can't think of any other author who created such a profound shift in my thinking as a young man. I've read Atlas Shrugged and The Fountainhead several times now. I love these books. The shame of our 'fast food culture' is that the size of the books - and the fact that less people read - will keep most people from being exposed to these important ideas.

If nothing else, Rands ideas gave me a permanent intellectual doorman/bouncer. Nobody gets past "the axe".

21:26 one way to say this would be to say that Keating operates according to external conditions of value.

She definitely didn’t believe I the victim mentality. I think after Covid a lot of people are fed up and have adopted this attitude. Your fear is not my responsibility, a hold on my freedom.

11:32 I think this probably the most salient point for today’s America

Why do people hate her? For the same reason people hate anyone: because they disagree with her. She believed in the virtues of capitalism. So anyone who is a socialist or communist will dislike her. But the reason she loved capitalism was because she grew up in communist Russia. Would any of the socialists of today still love socialism if they had to live in that environment? Doubtful. Quotes from The Fountainhead: “Ask anything of men. Ask them to achieve wealth, fame, love, brutality, murder, self-sacrifice. But don’t ask them to achieve self-respect. They will hate your soul. Well, they know best. They must have their reasons. They won’t say, of course, that they hate you. They will say that you hate them. It’s near enough, I suppose. They know the emotion involved.” - Dominique (367). Ayn Rand’s probable response to people who accuse her of hating people: “The person who loves everybody and feels at home everywhere is the true hater of mankind. He expects nothing of men, so no form of depravity can outrage him. . . . One can’t love man without hating most of the creatures who pretend to bear his name.” - Gail Wynand (461). She loves the best of humanity, their highest potential, not the mass of them. And in her opinion, people hate her because she is selective in who she likes and she wants people to be better than they are. People will “accept anything except a man who stands alone. They recognize him at once. By instinct. There’s a special, insidious kind of hatred for him. . . . They’ve got to force their miserable little personalities on every single person they meet. The independent man kills them-because they don’t exist within him and that’s the only form of existence they know. Notice the malignant kind of resentment against any idea that propounds independence. Notice the malice toward an independent man” (635).

12:27 And this is why so many unusually talented people don't think "the rules" apply to them. No compromise, even in the interpersonal realm. Society at large may be able to tolerate them, but if they are in your personal life, yikes.

A much more interesting question is why, alone of almost all "philosophers', does Rand have such passionate, at times, cult-like, devotees?

I fell in love with Ayn Rand when Dominique speaks of smashing the statue of Helios. Dominique took me by the hand and led me into Objectivism. I have always wondered what might have happened if Dominique and Dagny ever met. I,d love to have this conversation with someone else who has read Ayn Rand deeply and often.

I read "The Fountainhead" when I was 16. It really helped my young mind to make sense of the world.

An ultimate egoist will realise that the best thing for his or her well being is to help and care for others. It FEELS great to care for others. To share. To help. Those who don't feel it are traumatized and need emotional help.

HL Mencken supported Ayn Rand and helped her get published. Rand referred to Mencken as "the greatest representative of the philosophy to which I want to dedicate my whole life."

I suppose the detail for the individual, is in the timing. When did the individual in question first read The Fountainhead or Atlas Shrugged? If the individual was past their Young Idealist phase over the age of 25, maybe 30 on average, there probably won't be much appeal. Unless you and or your family recently escaped from a communist regime of course.

Ayn Rand predicted the mess the world is in now.

also, I read atlas shrugged BEFORE fountainhead. might be the reason i think AL is better than the fountainhead

I don't really like the concept of "You either accept and live by every last tenant of Objectivism or you must abandon it completely". Why should it be only for young adults? I read Shrugged for the first time at 40 and got a lot from it. And yes I read Fountainhead later because I heard of it later.

Lex, my favorite podcast of yours! Mike is so cute, articulate and smart! Yaron is passionate, sweet, intelligent and cute too! Thanks for taking me back to my teens when I first discovered Ms. Rand. She has made an indelible imprint on my entire life.

The reason she is so disliked is because she is brutally individualistic, so much so that she said she would outlaw the word "give" in her ideal enviroment

Lex is terrific as an interviewer. He stimulates, moderates, somewhat participates, yet correctly, stays the hell out of the way while these two awesome humans carry the torch. Really a pro job. I just ordered 'The White Pill' by Malice. Yay. Coming soon.

They were very dismissive of any counter arguments and just labeled many of the people who dislike Rand's ideas as either women of religious people. There are plenty of reasons to live for a greater common good that are not based on religion or any other type of indoctrination. And I honestly have a hard time relating to someone that says "Morality is not about other people" with such joy

Ironically she is criticized for saying that it's not good to be altruistic by the most narcissistic generation in memory.

This guy did a great debate with Sam seder.... it was very enlightening.... I personally love how he talks about history its sheer fantasy....

I like Ayn Rand's perspective on a multitude of things....we may not completely agree on everything, but ultimately I concur with her perspective in many ways. I even went so far as to use her information among others in one of My philosophy classes when presented with the notion of "altruism" and it's alternatives. I concluded that there is no such thing as true "altruism"...there is no one who does anything for anyone without some form of ulterior motive whether it be praise and acknowledgment for that which they did for an individual, a community, self-gratification and elation, or a belief that their actions will grant them favor with Our Creator....there is ALWAYS something they seek to attain though their actions and choices concerning others....there is 0 chance that there is 0 desired recompense on some level whether individual, communal, societal, psychological or spiritual. Even if someone chooses to remain anonymous for contributions to a cause or a community, etc., they're still personally self-interested for how it makes them perceive or feel about themselves...so there is an ulterior motive even then. To suggest truly objective "altruism" based upon it's very definition is ever performed by anyone living or dead is merely delusional...those who tend to argue against this perception simply aren't willing to unbiasedly perform introspective analyses and face whatever may come without attempting to explain it away in some quasi-self justification method/coping mechanism rather than facing it head on for what it truly is and accepting it as it stands before them without attempting to defend themselves from themselves...even in that moment they prove the very point by feeling some force of utmost urgency to defend themselves from their own inner workings. It may be frustrating, enraging, or even depressing for them to come to grips with but the only way to know yourself truly is by accepting even the things you chose to push into some dark recess of your own mind in order to maintain a delusion about yourself because you may like yourself better that way......but it's not who you truly are and many times such people fear because they care about what external sources think and feel about them, that those same forces they seek to appease by not accepting themselves fully...instead wearing a mask for so long they lose themselves to the act would not like or accept them without the mask they've adopted to interact in the vast majority of their societal interactions. I'm not one to say it would be right to harm another in order to maintain self interest unless that someone were threatening to do you harm initially thereby justifying self-interest in survival situations....if it's you or I...I'll be damned if I'm gonna go if I can take out that which is trying to force their will upon me when I can just as likely send them in My place so to speak as an example...her psychological analyses coupled with her philosophy make a great deal of sense when people are truly honest and open with themselves rather than trying to fit in to molds pre-designated for them and labels assigned to those various molds as well as whether fallible finite beings in their "infinite wisdom" determined if those molds and labels were assigned a more negative or positive connotation by their own personal agendas and desires derived from their own biases. Enlightened ethical egoist and libertarian individualist if it's of any consolation or consequence.....do with it what you will.

I read Ayn Rand when I was young, probably around 16. WE THE LIVING, THE FOUNTAINHEAD, ATLAS SHRUGGED, but also The Objectivist Newsletter and my two favorites: THE VIRTUE OF SELFISHNESS and PHILOSOPHY: WHO NEEDS IT? It took decades of seeing what the world and the people in it were like for me to process and integrate it all. Most of all, I dislike Ayn Rand’s insistence on intransigence, as though each person must be born with all the gifts, or they must be dismissed out of hand. Or, like Peter Keating, by the time they wise up it’s too little too late. She was kinder to Guy Francon, a guy who I kinda liked. Then there was the tragedy of Gail Wynand, the golden boy who ended up crushed under Dominique’s car; it was brutal. I’ve never understood why she threw Eddie Willers - that harmless, devoted puppy - to the wolves, though. There is a remorselessness at her core that can be very off putting. But, on the other hand, I consider ATLAS SHRUGGED one extended practical joke: hundreds upon hundreds of pages, all to get the heroine to change her mind … once. She had a real talent for naming people according to their morality or rather their lack thereof, culminating in that hero of the people, Ellsworth Monkton Toohey. The name flows like a mudslide. Her heroes have neither middle names nor nicknames; they are seriously bereft of twaddle. For the most part, that is: Lois Cook breaks the mold but lives in the ugliest of houses, writes the ugliest impersonation of books, and comports herself, deliberately, like an ugly slug. I imagine her kitchen to be both never used and always filthy. When she writes about the difference between “selfish” and “self-centered,” she has my full attention and appreciation. I’ve spent many a conversation over the past 30+ years trying to disabuse people about that distinction, mostly to no avail, but there are some few who see it. There is hope. Ayn Rand is able to define that distinction with great clarity. I reread THE FOUNTAINHEAD and ATLAS SHRUGGED every once in a while. I think it’s time to reread THE FOUNTAINHEAD.

I really love when people bring up satanism, and talk about how it's really just about self-actualization and living for you, because I love to bring up the point that Anton LaVey pulled a ton of his ideas straight from Ayn Rand.

Good choice Lex

People who bash my beloved Ayn Rand have one thing in common: They've never read one of her books cover to cover. They cherry pick a few words, then cry about it. Many of her core concepts are badly misunderstood. I only wish that I could have met her, and probably could have (I lived in NYC from '73-'82). Bummer.

@11:33 "Your fear" stems from "your" weakness and misperception of reality, not from the other's (or "my") behavior.

I read Atlas Shrugged and felt that her message of the power of an individual to overcome difficult circumstances was a valuable message. However, her philosophy clearly associates poverty with moral failing and that to me is a complete failure in the understanding of the circumstances of the modern world. I cannot agree that the hard working people of this country who don't earn enough to live a life of dignity are morally deficient. I heard two proponents of Ayn Rand talk about what they believe to be the obstacles to people's understanding or acceptance to Rand's philosophy but I think they miss the mark.

The way you can tell Rand fans are FOS is that they think people that disagree don't understand it. What new did she bring to objectivism that Mises or Hayak didn't cover?

The only way to have true interest in another is to hold yourself in unconditional positive regard. And often the most important loving expression for someone in need is to help them acknowledge their own self-responsibility and their own innate inner potential to solve their own problems as a fellow human. Leading this by example is key. When you quiet yourself within, there’s little need to shadow box and create a fight with what you expect others to be. Simply shine your own moral light and integrity. Those who argue against it will realize they too live by the code.

Seems to me that Rand would start with the propriety of individual rights and obligations and due to the collectivist labeling of selfishness she was always having to answer to those charges. She did believe they held no sway over her but she felt obligated to offer them her truth and leave it at that they of course would have none of it.

Ayn Rand can be a hard read. But she makes you think, which is the best way to learn.

Have not yet started the video, but here are my initial thoughts since I have thought of this a good deal. A: her fictional writing was tiedious and felt like a chore to read for many. B: her philosophy suffers from the same problem marx had although to a vastly lesser extent. It's great on paper, but people such and are frequently cruel, dishonest, irresponsible and irrational. C: It frequently ignores the external costs of things. There are actions that indirectly impact others, like some one over pumping water from their land and draining a water table shared by others, or fumes from a papermill making a town borderline unlivable from the smell. D: perhaps most importantly for reasons why she is hated by so many, her philosophy is almost always visibly championed by douchebags. All that said, I think her method of thought is mostly right, just needs to be moderately applied. It's these all or nothing stances that create problems.

Lex 'Michael why do you never really reference Rand'. Me 'Michael is the only person I ever hear referencing Rand, and I would never have heard of her but for him'

I would love to see this team conversation on Ayn Rand with Jesus. They would probably say he is not sophisticated enough and can't fit this into his cognitive framework. It's like convincing cannibals not to eat people and they still keep asking why (T2 movie reference).

Rand’s philosophy could also be interpreted as you are actually living for other people by focusing on your own achievement, since your focus results in a net benefit to others without a directly altruistic aim. Altruism is just altruism. It exhausts resources. Randian’s philosophy results in altruism indirectly, but with a creation of resources.

When your entire literary career is a revenge plot against the people who took your families money...

the last thing yaron was going to say is that: keating is SELFless (not selfish) because he pursues OTHER peoples values and wishes not his own. this is the important concept of rational self interest v selfLESSness.

Good discussion.

"I have always found it quaint, and rather touching, that there is a movement in the US that thinks Americans are not yet selfish enough". - Hitchens

Ayn Rand never sugarcoated anything; she was an outlier even with her attitudes regarding marriage. Superficially she had very little in common with the "average" individual, yet when the onion is peeled, she resonates with most if not everyone. The problem is that many people with never peel back that onion (and therefore miss the understanding of her) and make their opinion based on what they know and hear...

I’ve read so much Thomas Sowell in my life and own most of his works but it lead me to Ayn Rand and both I appreciate greatly

Great conversation