i am sorry for having to take this down, the audio was really bad and was caused by some incredibly dumb crap and just pain anyways its back up now i am so sorry for the inconvenience

When creeps told me twice why conehead is the most important zombie, I was now fully convinced

Damage threshold are so important for literally every game. Things becomes meta in a game because of damage thresholds and it also simplifies important data that can be shown or teach in a instant. Once a game tries to mess with said threshold, it can really make a game feel completely different from before because of how impactful and important it is

Conehead zombie is the most important zombie because they have to regulate the traffic for the other zombies to get to the field. You don't want any grave accidents

I like that you’re talking about a zombie this time instead of plants, I think it’s good to give your videos a bit more variety.

I just really like Conehead's visual design The cone is really charming when put on a zombie's design and palette

Does anyone else find it funny how quick “what is conehead” is

Conehead costing 2 points somehow equals the amount of times this video has been uploaded, Good job, Creep! You have successfully spawned a conehead with your two points

Cone heads always feel like they take forever to kill, but are shrugged off as a “weak” zombie

I just hate how vannila banana cant 1 shot a bucket, its those "not quite" scenarios that make me know interactions out of spite

Personally I refer to the concept of damage threshold as interactions, as that is a good blanket term for how plenty of things work against each other and how efficient one option is or isn't, like showing how Rockpunchers may only survive with 70 HP, but that means support is necessary or Citron has to charge another full shot just to finish off this one enemy, which can be crippling. Admittedly I kind of just adopted this term from Clash Royale discussions and Orange Juice's tech videos in particular. Still fun to talk about, and back when I did fan content for Kingdom Rush it was a big aspect of number tweaking for me.

"You'd be using instas most of the time to deal with coneheads," People who use magnifying grass level 2:

Reflourished has made me use Magnet so frequently due to all the nerfs to splash damage that Buckets are basically just browncoats lol

I think a concept that's been missed here about damage thresholds is cheaper plants that deal damage more frequently. Take the example of buffing citron. If you're ONLY using citron, yeah, the buff isn't that impactful. It'll take the same amount of time to kill most zombies. But now imagine you have a couple lanes of lightning reeds. Now, the coneheads will die much more quickly, thanks to the citron buff, since the lightning reeds will take less time to finish off that little bit of hp left over. I think the idea of having 1 lane of heavy hitters and a couple lane of light hitters is a concept that's underrated by people.

I came to the same conclusion when figuring out which zombie plushy to buy to put up against my Peashooter and Sunflower plushies.

Damage degradation is a very nice thing, I really liked how eclise added degradation stages to gargantuars so it wasn't just the imo toss to go off of for how much damage you've done

Me: What is conehead? Him:A tankier basic zombie" *Thank you Mr.Helpful*

I just like how he said "what on earth is conehead?" Despite literaly everyone knowing what it is. Also i think conehead zombie is kinda the mascot of modern day

well technically the point system is actually 10 for basics, 20 for coneheads and 40 for bucketheads in pvz 2. But I guess it is more simple to use 1, 2 and 4. It also uses different numbers in PvZ 1 as well but I'm not sure which one that uses.

You described the concept of effective helath pretty neatly. 10/10

Talking about a zombie that called for walls to be used made me think of some sort of zombie with super high stats, that slowly loses health, so there’s an actual benefit to keeping a bunch of zombies on the board in the mid game

Damage threshold in multiplayer games are really interesting too, and if pvz ever has a battle mode where 1 guy is zombies(in pvz 2 not in pvz 1 and more accessible) it will be interesting how these thoughts change, as in 1v1 scenarios the game is about subverting these thoughts. good video overall, not many videos are made about this topic and there should be more.

I think this is actually an idea I cultivated in my head while playing the original, and carried to PvZ2. In 1, I found the toughness of basic, conehead, and buckethead to be more of a 1-2-3 case. If you planted a Peashooter just a zombie is visible, it started shooting just as they reached the lawn. And from there I observed: Basics took 3 tiles of time(1/3 of the whole lawn), coneheads 6, and bucketheads 9, Peashooter just barely finishing it off because it stopped to eat the pea. I haven't played 2 in a while so they probably buffed coneheads based on the stats in the video, but the same observations I made applied to PvZ2 when I played it. That was kinda an inverted example though, so here's a more straight one: Magnifying Grass' shots were 1 hit(50 sun) to kill a basic, 2 for a conehead, 3 for bucket. I never used it because my main strategy was Sun-shrooms, but I digress. Basically, I thought of zombie health as units instead of larger numbers, but considered that possibility when some of my calculations based on them turned out inconsistent. I guess what I'm saying is had I known back then wikis were a thing, I could have actually made more informed strategies. I would have known the damage thresholds and thus work around them than keeping all these numbers in my head of "how many of [plant shots] kills [zombie type]?"

great points, in addition, it seems like the topic is much deeper than just simply gameplay aspects - the cone itself had pretty much became a symbol of tankiness in the game, and you can see this from a variety of examples from the pvz games, like the Robocone Zombie from Far Future or the Hearty class in pvz heroes representing a class of tanky zombies, whose icon is portrayed as a cone on an orange background

Ah the conehead torchlight zombie in PVZ Brutal Mode Ex, instantly trample plants and move twice as fast as normal zombie, totally balance

ive read somewhere that a game's 2-costs are generally its most important units for balancing, because while you can only increase a 1-cost's cost by doubling it, 2-costs can be halved to get 1-cost units or increased by 50% to get 3-costs, meaning it gives you both a weaker than average and stronger than average without as large an increase as 100%. I think thats part of what's going on with the conehead, too. At 2-cost, theyre allowed to matter while being small, and are where all other zombie strengths are based off

I love these super specific breakdown videos. So important for understanding what deaign matters, what works, and what doesnt. Such a subtle but importakt fueld

This video was really interesting to me because having never looked into the stats of PvZ, I used to think this about bucketheads. I felt backed up in this belief by the fact that PvZ 2 added what I called “buckethead variants” like the pyramid head, barrel head, knight, etc. However, now looking at the actual HP of the zombies and knowing about the point system you discussed, I agree with your assessment that coneheads are the most important zombie type.

why does youtube recommend me a pvz2 video explaining how important a zombie variation is for 15 minutes, while also salvaging one of the game mechanics used to determine how much health does each zombie have

It has been ages since I've played PVZ2, but Coneheads kind of don't exist in my mind, because all the time spent in Survival (to the point that they spawn enough Gargantaurs to severely lag the game), I'd say that how much damage it takes to kill an imp is still a pretty good threshhold to know. You generally don't give Gargantaurs time to throw imps, keeping them stuck in a perpetual cycle of stomping spikerocks on the far right side of the screen, but when they do, that's time the wintermelons aren't throwing at the back line, and they might be wearing off the chill effect. So how long it takes to clear column 3 is very important. My usual strategy: an infininut in the centre row, and Phat Beetz on the sides, because Egypt Survival needs something capable of clearing in all directions to get rid of tombstones.

finally, zome reprezentation

I guess im CONEvinced that cone zombie is special

Interesting I was expecting you to talk about the design, about just how iconic it is. This was sick!

Road cones protect my head

i remember realizing that 1 peashooter can kill a conehead if it was already planted before it walked into the lane, but the peashooter would be damaged. i remember feeling so smart and professional.

Instead of the video, I half-focused on the hollow knight music in the background as I'm playing the game. Good video, Creeps. You teach me specific things in a game I never thought to think about before.

Buckets just help to make you lose when you're already losing. It's a lose more zombie because by the time they come out, you likely have one plant every row and at worse as you said. Instant kill plants are basically much stuck with being used on them because around when they come out your line is safe other wise.

Finally i got reconnected for my true potential

13:23 Finally! Someone appreciated us haters! A personality that revolves around hating someone!

coneheads are made to push more pressure to make you plant more attack plants, assuring you get ready for bucketheads or anything stronger than that

I suppose the robot pylon creators were indeed onto something by stating the cone was the pinnacle of zombie protection

Thanks mate, appreciate it.

Youre the only youtuber I NEED captions for

I personally love listening and talking about balancing for games. As someone with some game making under my belt balance is in fact key! I made an unpublished game called destroid where there were different ships with different firing types, took me forever to balance the three stats between all 5 ships. Ended up making all pretty decent ships, some weren't optimal but interesting enough for people to Want to at least try them! Usually the worse the weapon the more hp the ship had, but I had the most trouble balancing the standard ship (technically the best due to stat distribution) because it had a viable fire type and 3 hp with a decent acceleration speed. I made it this way to cater to more casual players which is something to consider when making games! The five ships were the standard with a slowish machine gun type fire, a burst which was the strongest fire type, a trap layer that would leave traps at the cursor, a shotgun which was good at crowd control but bad at taking down large asteroids, and a minigun like ship that fired so fast and was so strong I nerfed it by making it slowly kick the ship backwards while firing making it harder to control, probably the most skillful ship due to this and its low hp!

i was just gonna meme the explanation of what conehead is but no, this is a really good and insightful video! as someone who hasn't been huge into pvz2 this is a bit of an eye-opener to me for the way this game was designed

I haven't played a single PVZ game since PVZ2 released and these videos are so interesting to me even though I barely know too much.

Only Creeps20 could stretch a video about coneheads to 15 minutes AND have me watch it the whole way through I don’t know how you do it, but I’m impressed

Damage thresholds are really interesting when it comes to nerfs too, they're why sometimes a nerf or buff that does seemingly nothing, like a 2% hit speed buff or something, can often completely change something's viability in the competitive aspects of a game.

I love the use of Omori music in you’re vids 👍

I dressed up as neon conehead for Halloween for once so I have always liked conehead

I was kind of looking forwards to the "what is a buckethead" joke tbh

I like Conehead, Conehead has a cone.

Thanks for fixing the issue! ^^ I think the pacing was out of sync before too, this video feels more polished now…?

"CONEHEAD OP??!?!?!?!? with three 1s" THIS IS WAY TOO FUNNY

“Conehead zombie is the most important zombie” First few seconds: “okay let’s be clear, conehead zombie is not the most important zombie.”

Even in PvZ Heroes Browncoat is nowhere to be seen Conehead exists as a 2 brain card hahahahah

in the first age in the first battle one stood Burned by the embers of firepea, his soul blistered by the fires of snapdragon and tainted beyond redemption, he chose the path of perpetual torment. In his ravenous hatred he found no peace; and with boiling blood he scoured the neighborhood seeking vengeance against the plants who had wronged him. He wore the crown of the zombies and those that tasted the bite of his jaw named him...

There is a great video by Extra Credits (no worries, an old one) called break points, that explains the idea you call Damage thresholds in terms of rpg leveling. Not saying your explanation wasn't suitable, I just got reminded of a goodie from 4 years ago

The conehead is so important this had to be posted twice

As soon as I saw you were making the video, I knew the answer Coneheads have the perfect mix of hp, and commonness They have enough health and apear in enough numbers to define aspects of how you play, which, as stated in the video, bucketheads dont

I do actually agree with this. I mainly play PvZ1, but coneheads are so important there too. When considering 50% rule in PvZ1 (and the fact that armor zombies actually mean something) cones can be used to pass waves quickly, or stall them out for a long time.

Nostalgia throwback Cone head is the most important zombie Remember coney from LuihiaFan’s pvz plush series

I once saw a shop with PvZ plushies and inmediately thought "Oh, I need the conehead one!" It's in my room rn. So yeah, Conehead are the actual protagonists.

I feel like I was braindead the entire video, but there's one thing I find Coneheads nice, is that Bucketheads are tough, but their weakness is the Magnet-shroom, while Coneheads have balanced toughness and its cone cannot get pulled off by the Magnet-shroom.

The best example of Damage Thresholds is level2 magni the damage per shot is only increased by 25dmg but on level2 it can 1 shot Conehead and only Conehead! but the difference fells massive because of how common Conehead is

so according to creeps: "bucketheads?" "explosives"

Tecnically, both RNG speed and spawn points are both absent from PVZ2. Unlike in PVZ1, the speed of all zombies is always consistent in PVZ2 so yeah. Due to how waves work in PVZ2, spawn points are also absent from man-made levels (which to be fair, composes like 95% of the game), as the waves will always be the same, no mather what.

I am now just imagining Popcap releasing a plant which instantly kills everything but coneheads/nothing but coneheads.

Thanks for the imformation in 1:46 I will use that tactic in my games while coding.

"Conehead is the most important one" *PvZ Brutal Mode EX players:* o_o _(flashbacks to Lawnmowerhead, one of Conehead's variants)_

Can you do a video on magnifrying grass? I find it being a very underrated and fun plant to use.

I've never used repeater in Eclise since Fire peashooters are too good.

1:26 never just randomly pop out a peashooter out of nowhere. I was scrubbing my eye and thought I was hallucinating

Ok. Now you have to make a video about the zombie point values and how all that works

i always knew my homeboy was the most important on.

I, once again, wasn't ready for omori music in a video about PvZ.

I love how the conehead description went on for 5 seconds

Damage thresholds are also important in tf2, and really any other game as well.

Eyy nice to see the video back up ^^ also, Weasel is still the god of PVZ2

I’m a big fan of Team Fortress 2 and there’s a weapon there that perfectly exemplifies damage thresholds: the Machina sniper rifle. For pretty negligible downsides compared to the base sniper rifle, it gets a free damage buff on a fully charged shot, but that extra damage does not change any of the sniper’s interactions, so when it is used over base, it is used for aesthetic reasons.

Igual el conehead es el zombie con más merchandise

Who would have expected a conehea- wait. I’ve watched this before..

“Cone head is a tankier basic zombie” *ends section*

7:40 cat noise moment

1:40 Does anyone know where I could find the internal values for every zombie in either pvz 1 or 2 (Ideally both). I tried looking on the wiki and couldn't find anything.

Let's go I love cones thanks for this video

I was watching this video and refreshed when an audio glitched happened to see if it was my end, just for the site to say it was private I was worried I would never see this video again lol

Now THIS is important.

I have just started to see the video and i know its 99% is because they look funny

Basic zombie: exists Creeps: Whatever Basic zombie: takes a cone and put it on his head Creeps: THIS BEING IS THE KEY TO THE UNIVERSE

200th comment plus this was quite interesting, yeah, like, it is like the zombie equivilent of peashooter, yeah (well, actually the real zombie equivlient of peashooter is the peashooter zombie from zombotany in the first PVZ, haha). Yeah, Iove watching your videos, it's interesting, heh~

This will be good.

I watch your videos because I am interested, I like watching them, God bless

Road cones protects his head

When you said damage threshold I was a bit confused as I have always heard it called a damage check

I think one of the aspects that make coneheads important too is the lack of “tank removal” Yeah, Gargantuans have it And some specialist But really conehead always will have the same HP and will be dealt similar Instants, traps, defenses. Makes so coneheads Can be killed without much worry Bucketheads Can get their tank status removed by magnetshroom Yeah, is a very gimic plant But also… the only think bucketheads promote is… more damage. So… more explosive instants and traps

You didn´t have to told me, RCCH already proved it several times

Just in case you didn't see, I said: I don't even play this game just like listening to people who are confident in what they say

I think a good title for this video would be: "Conehead zombies are more important than you think, here's why:"

2:50 peashooter is cost efficient.