"We don't want any friendly fire" *fires 4 AIM-9s straight into a mixed field of aircraft, only one of which has afterburners*

Just imagine being an American bomber crew and running into jets three times as fast as the ME262...

Living next to RAF Coningsby and seeing Typhoons taking off out of my window is utterly amazing! Especially in spring, summer and autumn months when the occasional Typhoon Display Pilot, James Sainty, does his beautiful displays in the BlackJack! Absolutely amazing to see these in DCS!

Has a jet than can easily break the speed of sound - proceeds to fly slow behind bombers and gets smacked by .50 cals 🙃side note: the weak spot would be the cockpit (also engines). Head on works best to accomplish this, if not come in at roughly a 45 degree angle off the formations nose and line up multiple bombers in your run.

This is a really interesting scenario, because like in these sort of, modern forces get sent back in time, there’s not normally a conflict of interest. Like “could a modern US carrier group have stopped Pearl harbour?” or “could the modern British airforce have stopped the Battle of Britain?” create pretty obvious scenarios where the modern counterparts would still see their old times counterparts as the good guys in those scenarios. But if a modern German squadron slipped through a time vortex and found themselves near Dresden a day before the bombing was suppose to happen, they’d have a huge moral dilemma on their hands. Even setting aside “can we mess with history” concerns. Would they pledge themselves to the defence of the people of Dresden and ally with the Nazi’s? Obviously you chose the bombing of Dresden because it’s arguably one of the least defensible attacks conducted by the allies but it still raises a very interesting moral quandary.

IIRC, one of the factors that caused the Germans problems during the Battle of Britain is that BOTH sides assumed the enemy's squadrons were the same size as their own. This was a problem for the Luftwaffe because their squadrons were smaller than the RAF's. This meant the RAF OVER estimated the Luftwaffe strength, and the Germans UNDER estimated the RAF strength.

Cap: "I'm not going near that clutch of bombers - They're too stronk!" Cap a little later fearing a friendly missile launch: "Guys - Try and hide amongst the bombers."

Can't wait till we get the eurofighter in DCS; been missing it since ef2000

I'm not a WWII veteran, only watched bomber intercepting videos made in IL-2 1946, and I read a few reports from actual veteran pilots. German fighters rarely attacked bombers from the back (except when the bomber was alone and already damaged) because that was their most heavily defended spot. Fighters usually attacked from an angle, because that way their constantly changing position made them more difficult to be hit by gunners. Attacking bombers head-on was dangerous and risky but in that case gunners almost couldn't hit the fighters at all. If you flew through a bomber formation from the back, with only a little faster than them, you would have been slaughtered by the gunners. An effective method against bombers was actually bombing the formations from above. Fighters were armed with bombs, set the fuse for the altitude of the formation, flew over it and released the bombs. The shrapnel and the shockwaves were deavastating. But they could use this method only up to 1943, when allied escort fighters were equipped with drop tanks, and began escorting bombers all the way into Germany. German fighters loaded with bombs would have been too easy target for the escorts, so they gave up with that method. Instead, they used unguided missiles with time fuses, besides guns. There's a short documentary on YT about german anti-bomber attacks, using footage made in IL-2 1946: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/pNuHostnnLyRc2g.html&ab_channel=TinusleRoux

For a more accurate sampling you can always use ratio squads. Since you guys can only represent 1/4 of the squad without needing AI use only 1/4 of the normal attacking squads

From an engineering standpoint the stressed skin versus non-stressed skin is an excellent reason for why the older WWII aircraft can take missile hits a little easier. Excellently done and reasonable modeling, plus a great explanation, Cap.

Never send an 4-5th gen fighter to do an F-106A job. A squadrons worth a Genies would have made a short work of those Boeings

My personal highlight of the whole video: those Typhoons have the markings of the military from my country! Yes, here in Austria we have Typhoon. Not a big number, not all of them are able to fly, BUT we got them and the Grim Reapers use them with the markings of the Austrian Airforce!!

Always wondering with these scenarios, what the ‘chicken out’ point would be - the bomber crews seeing the utter carnage of their force, at what point would they say “F this” and turn round and run away.

This video and the previous with the Battle of Britain makes it really really obvious why the F-106 was designed to yeet the AIR-2 genie into bomber formations. It’s just that bomber formations kinda stopped being a thing.

I cant wait for the full fidelity Eurofighter 😃

This turned out to be an amazingly fun video. Thanks for the hard work.

The B-17's were renowned for being able to absorb a comparatively large amount of battle damage and keep flying. The B 24 Liberators were kind of the opposite.

Watching the Typhoon fly was amazing! Those bombers fly so slowly, yet the Typhoon could maneuver so well. What a dogfighter!

42:08 wow lucky to catch a bomb falling right in front of the camera :-) yet another great vid. keep it up.

I would say for tactics that what you need to do is divide up the squadron between the different divisions. You have 12 eurofighters, setup 4 per division. Setup in pairs as well, one lead, one wingman. If you divide up this way and come from the side of the divisions you should reduce friendly fire and also be able to cause as much damage as possible to each division of bombers coming in.

36:02 - If you pause at the moment Cap hits the B-17, you can say hello to the side gunner, bravely manning his post. LOL!

German Tactic: Head on on Bombers! 20s right into the cockpit. Get the Pilot and make use of increased bullet speed of added speeds of the planes. If not possible, go for the engines. Damaging is enough, they dont make it without them for long.

Should these be more about reducing combat effectiveness? If they shoot down more than 30 to 50% of the bombers I doubt the US would continue the campaign. That amount of loss might end the aerial bombardment campaign all together. Every bomber is 10 men...

Wonder what the Typhoon used the flares for - to confuse enemy incoming missiles, which they definitely had?

Love these videos guys! Keep em coming!

Interesting scenario! I wish ED addressed the huge FPS drop when the bombs are falling/ impacting.

Flying at One Thousand feet-- 50 UH-1H's VS 50 Mi-8's! Flying at Two Thousand feet and few miles behind-- 50 AH-64 Apaches VS 50 Mi-24 Hind's! Flying at Three Thousand feet and few miles behind-- 25 A-10 Thunderbolt II's VS 25 SU-25's! Flying at Four Thousand feet and few miles behind-- 50 F-15E's VS 50 SU-34's! Flying at Five Thousand feet and few miles behind-- 25 F-35's VS 25 SU-35's! 👍👍

Cap: First all metal Stressed Skin Aircraft was the Dornier-zeppelin D. I, in 1918. In WWII, quite a few aircraft were already of the stressed-skin type, including the F4U Corsair, Spitfires, Thunderbolts, The Avro Lancaseter, BF-190G, JU-88, Even the A6M. In fact, it's a rare plane in WWII that was NOT a stress skinned bird. I think the major difference is that the older planes had more internal structure, not knowing yet that they didn't need all that extra weight. That the skin was swiss cheese matters a whole lot less when it's being held in place by a whole lot more internal structure. "You boys are something!" Not sure what, but you're something... :)

My God I love these scenarios. Keep them coming please!

Typhoon always reminds me of the jets off Captain Scarlet

If missiles blow up when near an aircraft then the older planes could take more damage. Now if it hit then exploded they'd be ended. WWII planes did return looking like Swiss cheese at times.

F-4 Phantom VS A-4 Skyhawk F-15 STOL/MTD VS F-16I Sufa Extreme AOA VS Extreme Missile Rating👍 F-4U Corsair VS MIG-15 MB-339 Aerimacchi VS Viggen T-45 Goshawk VS F-14 Tomcat AV-8 Harrier VS MIG-23 Flogger Please fly the Planes on the left😁✌

One of the classic issues when pitching modern aircraft against WW2 aircraft is the fact WW2 aircraft were generally super-mass produced. All countries involved were going all-out producing aircraft. These days, air forces are way smaller (without a global war to fight)and unit costs of modern aircraft are astronomic. Add into that that modern aircraft carry limited missiles and limited ammo in comparison....so the performance advantage of modern aircraft is eroded once the modern aircraft have nothing else left to fight with..... Plus WW2 aircraft can soak up a LOT of damage airframe-wise.....modern aircraft pack a lot more sensitive/expensive gear in their airframes and are more vulnerable to .50 cal or 20mm rounds.....

This is an example of good strategy, bad tactics. Youre all friggin great pilots (ive binged so much of your channel over the past few weeks), but i keep seeing you guys come up with half a plan. Id love to see you guys do a nice reaction vid where you interview retired squadron commander and CAGs and grill them for relevant tactical advice. Im an old Marine, so none of my skills are relevent to y'all, but trust me when i say veterans, officer or enlisted LOVE our friggin wargames. This would be good fun and help steer you excellent pilots into sound tacticians. And loads of fun for us vet viewers for sure! YUT!

This was a lot of fun to watch!

I was really curious to see how this worked out Nice idea Cap, well executed as usual! The answer of course is quite straightforward: No. Without regard to the video, here is why: Unit cost of a Meteor missile: $2.3M (what they would probably use, AMRAAM is about the same, though the -D model is over $4M unit cost). inflation-adjusted cost of a B-17 from 1944: $1.5M. Strategic warfare is ultimately an economic problem, not a technical one. On the other hand, you would not have to kill all the bombers: generally losses of >10% were, at the time, considered uneconomical. Since raids could consist of up to 1000 aircraft, your best kill rate would result in halting the bombing campaign completely. Now do Gripens versus WWII Luftwaffe :)

The first and second waves happened at night by the RAF with Lancasters not the USAF with much greater numbers too. The daylight raid by the USAF was much smaller

Nice camera work in the end. You’re getting better at this.

After the first crash, I kept thinking of it all as the mission to stop the bombers from bombing the server. (hosted in dresden, presumably)

These are so great to watch while polishing knives👌

as for the amount of damage taken there are pictures of a polish wellington after it landed having flown back with the canvas missing from wing root to rear turret, in fact as it landed the rear turret popped out and got dragged behind it surprisingly the gunner walked away unscathed. Now for a query "does the ejector seat have physics?" aka can we turn cap into 2 dumb missiles ?

How about some ships with AA missiles against this type of attack? They should have enough missiles to shoot most them down.

One of your team mates said "Shit" when he was in trouble, and that female targeting voice corrected him by saying, "Shoot".

With the divisions thing, I know that consolidating decimated bomber units wasn't uncommon throughout the war, so it's possible that was listing 1 (possibly temporary) division made up of 4 below-strength divisions.

The week spot is a GAU-8 ripping them to shreds

High altitude, diving gun attacks is where I would start; buzz in the front and through the formation, come about, target lock the bombers in front, and Guns Guns Guns on the rear group, as you sweep forward.

There was no cohesion of attack in your operation. It was noticeable that many Fox 3s were taking out stragglers or targets that were already hit. You need to split the bomber force into small slices that each individual typhoon targets as there's no doubt you were targeting the same bombers at times. Having AI didn't help as you could have split 12 human assailants into three groups of four that would target a division of bombers each, but not possible with the AI. Interesting experiment though, but I do believe it would be possible to stop that operation with what you had.

There is something about these simulations (not just this one) that really gets you where you live. Seeing it in documentaries, or movie and TV fiction doesn't do it justice.

@10:47 "That there is 192 B17s" *Sniff, sniff, salutes* Oh it's beautiful

It is those all important questions that need asking

36:36 "Only Tuxor could be chased by a B17" Belly laugh! :-D As for the server problems, it will be mainly a software problem. Possibly ED could help you? On the other hand, when their server (software) gets overloaded it apparently just dies; that's not at all impressive. A more powerful server (hardware) might not help you: there may be a limit to how many cores (/CPUs) the software can use, and you can even get the effect of more cores actually slowing the software down (I'll explain if you fancy ;-) Possibly some configuration tweaking might help a lot. Best of luck.

They should make a mod for the XB70 and see if the MiG 25 could intercept it as that was its original purpose in case of an escalation from the cold war

yup, i worked aircraft maintenance, 45min-1hour turnaraound time sounds about right even when cutting corners(violations abundance lol)

One vote for night stuff - I think it's great! It is impressive how far desktop computers have come - just being able to do this is amazing! This made me quite excited for when we actually get the Typhoon in DCS! In terms of shrapnel - there was the famous observation by a mathematician that the areas of the bomber that needed armouring were those where bombers that returned did not have holes in their skins - mainly over engines and other fundamentally important structures. This supports Cap in that it suggests that damage to a worldwar 2 bombers skin itself was not likely to bring the plane down however shrapnel could damage the engines and other underlying structures, still a modern airliner is supposed to take more than one AAM to shoot down (as demonstrated by the Korean Airlines 747) so I'd imagine a world war 2 bomber would too. In terms of weak spots on the B17 - early on luftwaffe pilots attacked them head on, The chin turret (I think) was introduced to counter this to an extent but I think it was still a thing.

That was really "sehr toll, Sonderkommando Elbe"... 😁👍

42:52 you failed😂😅 Time Machine needs to send Two Squadrons in these scenarios👍

Suggestion to solve the AI, ammo, friendly fire and few human issues: Have 2 waves of player planes. If you have 6 players and 12 planes, then just give each player the chance to "respawn" as a "new pilot." In game, you would just be holding half of your fighters in reserve on the ground. It is less initial firepower from the AI, but that will then be there for players to use in the second wave... meaning those planes will be better used by players once their initial ammo is spent. In "game terms" all those initial planes abandoned would just be 'returning to base empty" (or shot down.) It also solves the "rearming" issue. It is realistic too since you always try to keep some of your force in reserve during a battle just in case. Only at the end do you commit reserves if the situation allows. (Who knows, the USAF might try to hit the airfield while the fighters are up fighting bombers, and then there'd be no place to land your fighters!) After the main force is committed and the Luftwaffe can be sure there is no second assault on the airfield, then they could release those fighters to hit the rear of the bomber force, or take out the rest of the bombers on their way home from the main target. Finally, I'd suggest using proper wingmen tactics. That reduces the speed of kills, but it reduces friendly fire. Using 6 live players, that's 2 pax per group. Much easier to deconflict the airspace.

It would Definitely be interesting to see an A-10 square up against a P-51 or late era FW-190.

Arthur "Fire Up the Lancasters" Harris is displeased.

God 1940s USAF pilots would have had some stories had they been bounced by Eurofighters…..assuming they lived

There's obliviously a lot of struggles doing these jets intercept WW2 era bombers. What about 4 squadrons of Spitfires and Mosquitos vs 300 Ju-88s? Ace vs Ace

Which OS is running on the server? What's the resources dedicated to? Is the server spooling up its vram or just utilising hard memory? Is there any leaks?. What's the disk space? Disk type and is it raid setup? Is the disk set to lvm or is it a secondary drive?

I'm sure someone has said it but aim for the higher flying bombers. They fly in formation as to not impact each other in the event they go down but going down is unpredictable and they often take out their own countrymen or allies. Thee of my great grandfathers were pilots in the European and Japanese theater. They mentioned that a few times watching movies with me as a kid. I was extremely lucky to know them. Very lucky. One, my grandpa Young suffered seizures his whole life after the war. He was the navigator on a bomber and my great grandfather Cook was the pilot. When they got shot down my grandpa Cook pulled everyone from the wreck with a broken back and femur, including my grandpa Young who got smashed into the navigation station. When my grandpa Cook got everyone clear and leaned back against a tree he took a bayonet and 8mm Mauser to the stomach but pulled his 1911 .45 colt and ended more than a few soldiers careers that day as he held the bayonet in his stomach. My Grandma always told me about how when you touched his side his arm would shoot up. I only figured out he was messing with everyone when I was in college, it was a serious war injury from a bayonet and bullet but he was like me I guess and screwing with the kiddos. My great grandpa Young died of a seizure due to his war injury in his late 60's but I'll never forget playing catch with him in my grandparents front yard for hours a few weeks before. They were both like me in so many ways. My grandpa Buckner was a Frogman and just passed this year. Great sense of humor and super excentric and 6'6" 220lbs. Grandpa Johnson was a P38 pilot and was paralyzed in the 70's after breaks failed and him and my great uncle went off a cliff. He passed about 5 years ago.

Ironic now that the Luftwaffe primarily trains in New Mexico. Also Cap, those crosses are men under canopy. Each bomber has a crew of like 8 or 9

Those missiles seem to do waaaay less damage than they should

I'd like to know what you can do to these things by just flying past them at Mach? This question is more about the stupas than the b-17s but I would imagine the white turbulence might be a nightmare for an old propeller plane. No?

Good stuff!

Of course it could, it could track and shoot down multiple targets at night and look like UFOs to the B17 crew.

A10 can carry a lot of bombs, would be interesting to see A10s replace all the B17s in a WW2 bombing campaign.

Would love to see a video on the Blitz with the Germans being attacked by F-104s

Try a modern ground based air defense grid+ a squadron or two, would definitely help.

I know everyone loves the A-10 vs. but how about a nice round of AC-130's? Howitzers and mini guns for lols.

Those B-17's really didn't look like they were putting up much in the way of defensive fire. It almost seemed like the bombers could only fire one set of guns at a time, and even then it seemed if only 1 bomber out of the formation would fire even though multiple bombers could shoot at you. That might be something to look into doing more testing on.

Is there a link to your specs Cap? Rendering all those bombers is mighty impressive, thanks!

A naval Squadron of F-35s consists of 10 aircraft. An USAF F-35 Squadron consists of 24 aircraft.

what flight sim is being used in the video please, thought the Typhoon wasn't out yet... noob here :)

Junkers 88 most definitely was of stressed skin construction. Most WW2 aircraft were.

Will dsc allow small short range in place of 120’s? Cause any standoff ability would be a massive advantage.

Haha this is so much better with the new server. I forgot who it belongs to but thank you very much. Edit, I thought you were using a server in the states, anyway... great show. lol on the respawn takeoff :D

Simulation did NOT have B17s firing their 12-15 .50 cal MGs at you.

Hey , Cap . what you can try for performance. is messing around with the affinity. The idea being that you change the affinity of the program so that the game never runs on the same cores as the server, or OBS. (Normally windows will handle that, but ,,,,,) in the task manager you can enable advanced view, and that should let you change the affinity of the programs to only use the cores you want. Process lasso is another util which can do the same, and remember it. (and also do load balancing and stuff, useful util that.) you can easily mess around a bit with the above tips, and see if it helps. ♥

3:35 Maybe for the Eurofighter, not for the Gripen's. But probably they would also struggle to make it anyway if they only had 1 minutes.

Out of interest, I just checked the actual sizes of a squadron at the Bundes-Luftwaffe. A wing has a nominal size of about 40-50 planes in two squadrons, thus a size of 20-25 eurofighters per squadron seems legit (but in fact, not all of them are airworthy at a time, being in repair, uprades, or grounded for other reasons).

yep they are nice, next to the vectored thrust planes they are the most impressive in air shows

Imagine the courage of those bomber crews to stay on course and in formation, against heavy resistance. Those guys were incredibly gutsy.

the bomber will always get through

Next do "could a RAF Typhoon squadron have stopped the Coventry bombing"

20:48 like IRL: Destroy the engines or the wingspan like you tried Edit: I hope it is moddelled okay

carrier squadrons would be different to ground squadrons, so F-35 B squadrons would depend logistically on what ships they are embarking on and I think it can be that the actual complete squadron does not always deploy, because the expeditionary unit commander, US Marine Corps, might have latitude with his specific compliment of vehicles and aircraft dependent on his mission parameters and what he expects to actually encounter and require to deal with it

"Cap suicide" *misses everything like a boss*

There was actually 722 heavy bombers from the RAF and 522 from the USAF that attacked dresden over the 3 days from the 15th Feb. That's crazy numbers

Interesting question: As the Eurofighter approaches the B-17, and the tail gunner peppers it with bullets, wouldn't the engine suck in a few of them? It easily sucks up birds...

Please make these fights Two Squadrons👍 Lol last couple times you've done this kinda scenario there's about half or so enemy's left alive. Lol like I said before the time machine can Always fit more! Two Squadron's should do it

Seeing those B17's made me smile.

Where did the b17 come from?

Hey cap, have you all done a video on if lights effect visual detection range by ai? If not I would love to know!

You can't tell me those bombers are tough enough to soak up missles and 20MM rounds

With that much blue on blue I'd say Grim Reapers were flying for the USAF!

b17s are so tough against amraams, one b17 takes like 5 aim 120s before dying