I'd love to see more Garand Thumb reactions. He's done some awesome videos with some really interesting weapon systems.

You played his Sponsor ads rather than fast forwarding through them: Class Act mate - Thumbs up and subscribed.

For context, just in case you don't know. Garand Thumb is an ex U.S. Airforce TACP, which stands for tactical air control party. That means he was attached to seals, rangers, green berets, etc, etc, in order to call in and coordinate air support for them. That is a highly skilled and technical job at that level because a TACP has so many aircraft at their disposal they can call in at one time that they practically have to be civilian air traffic controller certified. He is also S.E.R.E. qualified to perform it and teach it.

I just realized that he's cosplaying CPT. Price from COD, or at least I think he is.

These guys are good shooters, but this level of shooting skill is not uncommon in the US these days. Competition shooting and advance gunfighter courses exist all over the US for civilian and military alike.

GarandThumb was Airforce Special Operations. He doesn't really say much more than that. If you watch his latest vid, he mentions that. Micah, the other guy is just a rifle enthusiast who can clearly fire a rifle. 😁

Was really impressed with GT's review. He summed it up perfectly. Great concept, just a few things to iron out. Don't forget that this weapon system was designed and specced during a time when we were operating in FIBUA during the troubles in NI. We needed a compact weapon that could be used debussing from vics and moving through houses and tight spaces whilst still maintaining a long barrel for longer range engagements in traditional combat, the cold war and BAOR was still a thing at this point. This was a perfect compromise in theory but poorly executed on the first go. The weight on the rear, although not optimal for shooting accuracy, mitigated the bigger problem of tiring you out before you even get to shoot it. You'll spend a lot of time stood around or carrying the weapon rather than firing it. It's very comfortable to handle in day to day despite its higher weight. I really like the L85. I think it gets an undeserved bad reputation in its current form once a lot of the initial problems were ironed out but as they say, you only get 1 chance to make a first impression.

I joined when we still had SLRs, the SA80 tended to get double feed jams but the second generation (the one with the curved cocking handle) was much better.

Including the early concept prototypes... it's design was actually in the late 40's to early 50's. The problem can be specifically tracked to Enfield firing all their gunsmiths and hiring basic engineers in the 60's-70's. The A2/A3 are not actually "Bad", as the various small errors in engineering are pretty much gone. It's sad... as the original designs and concepts were well ahead of their time and any problems (common to new rifles) should of been easy to iron out with experienced gunsmiths.

Thank you for your service from a American 🇺🇸 🇬🇧 💪

I remember these being issued and training on them in Germany in the eighties. We'd been using the SLR (semi auto FN FAL) and were really happy with them, but a brand new rifle would come with upgrades and improvements. We saw the new rifle and it was pretty space age looking, we knew it had a long barrel and was going to be accurate, then we actually picked them up and yikes! Everything was really flimsy and fragile, but we still looked forward to seeing how they performed. They came with the SUSAT sight but we'd actually had these for a while welded onto the top slide cover of the SLR. It was very unbalanced with all the weight at the rear necessitating a fiddly sling which felt like it snagged on everything. We didn't use a sling previously as we were required to have the weapon in the hand at all times. Anyway, on to training drills and the 'forward assist '. What? The last weapon to have forward assist was bolt action. Automatic means the weapon does it not you. The SLR had a lovely smooth charging handle, which for us never failed; it was explained that the metal stamping of the body was thin and flexed, so the working parts would often grind to a halt just before cocking. Lol! We realised that it had been badly made and then knowingly issued anyway. So the forward assist, which begged the question; if you had to cock it almost like a bolt action, why, when the weapon was right hand only, was the charging handle on the right? This meant you had to tilt it over and use your left hand to knock it home. A few goes at this and one or two people had knocked the plastic cocking handle off, requiring a visit to the armourers. Something as simple as loading a magazine was a test of faith; it's rattling around in the housing, is it actually properly in? If you gripped the magazine instead of the front stock in an attempt to make sure it stayed home you discovered the mag was flimsy as well, and squeezing it stopped the rounds being pushed up the mag. Was it accurate? Yes, very. Could it be used in the field? Not easily, as discovered in Gulf one. It didn't like being outdoors and any dirt, soil, sand and the inevitable stoppage which meant ignoring the IA drills and proceeding straight away with a strip and clean. I came out after Gulf one so I never saw the improvements but I'm very glad they were made for the sake of the lads and lasses who served after and now. It's hard to overstate just how poor these rifles were when they were very first issued and it had been done knowingly by the MOD.

The only stoppages i ever had was the empty case catching on the cocking handle..A2 delt with that ...love this weapon

Tbh, garand Thumb was a usaf tacp. That's probably why his aim is so good lol

I knew you would mention him ignoring(not being aware of) the correct bolt release

So great seeing people react to garand thumb and the fat electrician, I don’t even know why I like these I guess I’m just interested in the British prospective on patriot culture

Time to back this up. The standard issue rifle for the 1970s & mid 80s, the 7.62mm FN FAL. A good rifle. but the MOD wanted something smaller to go inside an armoured vehicle. Then along comes the SA 80, oh dear. This bullpup weapon fired the 5.56mm round and could use magazines for the M16! A less known fact, if necessary, the rifle could be altered to fire a smaller round, the 4.85mm round. Overall, the SA 80 is an inferior weapon.

Well mate,you have to remember that the manual of arms on the L85 series differs greatly from the AR-15/M16 platform we are used to on this side of the pond🤙

Not a huge fan of bull pups but having a 4x optic on every single rifle was pretty awesome for when it came out. The AUG also had an optical mount but it was only a 1.5x magnification. The US didn't make the M4 with the ACOG, the standard rifle until 1994. It didn't see action till 1999.

While its cool to have you mention what the proper handling drills are for the rifle, I think it's pretty obvious that garandthumb has never handled one of these rifles prior to the video and just operated it based solely on his past firearms experience and nothing more. In other words, he doesn't know the British Army standard L85 drills, so of course he's going to operate it in a way that isn't 100% like what you were taught lol

The issue with the A1 was Enfield was being shut down and all the engineers let go, so they half arsed the production even though they knew it would be squaddies lives at risk. The lenders of the rifle should of given a brief run down on how to use it, or didn't they wonder what the little square nub did? Weird

My M4 in Afghanistan, and ARs I can run all of the controls ambidextrously solely from my firing hand, thumb and trigger finger only (trigger, safety, bolt catch/release, mag release). Far superior setup. When people saw it they'd think it was wizardry. Your non-firing hand is then only for charging handle (also ambidextrous) and handling magazines. And mag forward is superior to bullpup both for reloading as well as weapon balance and natural accuracy. M4 was much lighter than the L85 too. Modular and accurate. I could hit at 500m with ease in Afghanistan using the M4 and Eotech (never tried shooting further at a known distance with that setup), almost effortlessly.

Out of the team of 19 engineers that designed the L85A1 none of them had any experience in gun design, It is brilliant that H&K got it to work as well as it does. The M16 had a few problems when it was first sent to Vietnam. A big problem was the ammo issued, ball powder caused longer peak chamber pressure, causing timing, thus extraction problems, no cleaning kit, no chrome lined barrel, no forward assist but all these problems are solved and the family of AR rifles are brilliant.

Thank you for your service! Your country has a great and proud history (nobody is perfect), I wish more Brits had a better opinion of their country and were move vocal for one of the countries that has been a massive positive for the world.

it was totally shite, i got issued the LSW version with the bipod, i loved the SLR, could hit a 2 pence piece at 100 m with iron sights. i actually chose to carry/use the gimpy instead for the company.

I transitioned from the SLR to the SA80. The first thing we noticed was the increase in accuracy when troops switched, The target acquisition between shots was massively quicker. Watching falling plate competitions between SA80 armed and SLR armed teams the difference was night and day. We could carry a lot more ammunition with the reduced size of the rounds. The sling system meant you simply never detached from your weapon. That said the early SA80 had some chronic teething problems. We had gas plugs melting. Stoppages when firing on auto when two rounds were jammed into the chamber. Had this a few times and the quickest way to fix it was to hook the rounds out with the can opener on my clasp knife. Which I always had in the top left hand pocket of my smock attached via a lanyard. Mags would fall off as the release catch was exposed, one of the first mods. The cheek pad melted when exposed to mossie repellent. The dust cover would fall off. To name but a few. But that was the A1. As for the forward assist. Nothing new, the M16 had a button for it, we just gave the cocking handle a tap.

This guy called it a "cocking handle" and I now know why we went to war. Great video though! Fun times.

To be fair, these guys are shooting daily-weekly, on a variety of platforms and have been doing so for at least a decade. They're just used to handling firearms. One thing the British military (non-SF) doesnt get enough of is range time and we dont have a strong culture of more widespread firearms ownership here in the UK due to the stupid statutory laws.

The AKB 23 bullpup kit released last week looks almost identical to the l85. Might pick one up if they're any good.

That rifle is the reason the SAS use M4'S 😂

I’m kinda glad I left the British forces whilst the old L1A1 was still the standard rifle, I got to handle an SA-80 on the range at Bisley back in 1983, but what we were using was one of the pre-production rifles and it didn’t seem to show any of the issues the later production rifle had.

I feel criticism of the SUSAT is a little harsh. It was kept in service for too long but it was first fielded nearly 40 years ago- for its time it was an exceptional optic and ahead of its time; one of the first in the world issued as standard to frontline soldiers and ridiculously tough.

No, the early M16 was worse. More so as it was introduced during a war, the Vietnam war 🫢 The A2 was much better & current A3 is a Very Good reliable weapon. Why don't you cover the early A16 & current A3.

You mention that the SA-80 was designed in the 70's, the M-16/AR-15 was designed in the 50's, and adopted in the 60's yet still works just fine. The SA-80/L85 system just isn't a very good design. There's a reason the SAS uses the M-16/M4 platform instead.

It is not a gun, it is a rifle. The biggest problem we had with this weapon in the early days was build quality. Very few issues with reliability, clean it, oil it, it works. I have used it on Ops and exercises all over the world and had very few problems.

In regards to the way they were doing the reloads, we get taught two types of reloads in the US: tactical, and speed. What you were talking about is what we refer to as a tactical reload. It's a reload you do when you probably still have a few rounds in the mag, but you've got time to get behind cover and change it before moving, or you're about to go into another room, and you want to make sure you've got a full mag beforehand. When doing a tac reload, we do retain our mags, though unlike what you describe we retrieve our full mag BEFORE dropping the partial and either do a side-by-side reload or a teacup (or L) reload in which we quickly swap out the partial mag for the full one with the same hand so that the time in which there is no magazine in the weapon is minimized. What they're doing in the reload drills is speed reloads, which we do to simulate a mag running dry while mid-engagement. In that case, the empty mag is dropped as the weak-side hand moves to grab a full mag and jam it into the magwell and drop the bolt as quickly as possible to stay in the fight. If there is a chance later to go back and pick up the empty that was dropped, we'll do that. But in the moment it is much more important that we get rounds back in the weapon. I can't speak to what was taught pre-GWOT, that is what we were learning in the 2000s, and is still what is taught today. I fought in Iraq during the surge, and I had mags run dry. Practicing speed reloads is good training. Shit comes in clutch. This is a good explanation from a former Army SF guy on how we do it, and the thought process behind it. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/ftWGe7B4ltidmXU.html&ab_channel=SheepdogResponse

"AT LEAST OWAH SKOOLS ARENT A SHOOTIN GALLERY!!" 🤣

I spent most of my time with the A1 and yes it did have issues but ot gets more hate than it deserves. The most common cause of malfunctions i experienced was the flimsy feed lips on the cheap aluminium magazines we were issued instead of the steel ones it was designed to use they could be straightened out but that just left them weaker and more prone to dammage. The polimer replacements fixed that issue the round cocking handle's habbit of deflecting spent brass straight back into the ejection port was infrequent but bloody anoying. And the lack of a feed ramp causing the lower locking splines in the breech to shave slivers of brass from every casing which built up and gummed things up ( the reason we needed to forward assist. ) I like to remind people who bash the SUSAT that it was the first optic to be issued as standard to every infantryman it isn't great by modern standard hell it wasn't all that good at the time but it is a solid sight which will hold zero even after you beat an enemy over the head with it.

Awesome. I love seeing Garand Thumb getting some attention.

Thanks for your perspective on the rifle. I enjoyed it. I wish these weren’t such a unicorn across the pond. Liked. Subscribed.

Imagine a videogame where you could play as Michah, and every time you get a sub oar gun, you get a stat bonus while everyone else gets a penalty, but then with nice guns, everyone else gets a bonus while he just does okay; Captain So-so.

Its a cool looking gun from the grip forward.

If you don't know grand thumb is no scrub he is SF in USAF survival instructor .also as a former us army guy that weapon does rank as one of the worst I've ever played with .

New sub, good show. Thanks for sharing! USN Vet

The M-16 went into service in 1963 and was designed in the 50’s. Now your new rifle is using that same basic design.

You could really go down a rabbit hole with Garand Thumb videos

Hey at least now the UK and US both have badass rifles, the KS-1 from Knights and the Sig Spear both are neat.

i might be mis-remembering but i clearly recall using the bolt release to lock the working parts back as well as releasing the bolt. I stopped using the green one on the right hand side for a while.

its always got to me why people hate on the SA80 so much. the A1 fair enough wasnt great. Lucky for me it was replaced by the A2 while I was still at my first unit. after this I NEVER had any trouble at all with it. I absolutly loved the rifle. noone who seems to do videos on the SA80 has a clue how to use it right. as you say his skill at arms has a lot to be desired. no wonder they struggle with it.

It is amazing to me that we have a L85A1 in circulation in the US. I wonder if it is transferrable or a pre (or post) 86 sample. Either way that is a VERY expensive gun (in the US, anyway).

It was the blend of the AUG and the AR180 'widow maker' that the British came to respect in the hands of the IRA (or was that the SAS False Flagging as the IRA per Simon Mann?). Drawing anything from the AR15, which does not offer a functional model after you bayonet or buttstroke and opponent, was not a consideration. A fairly reasonable idea at the time, but Lee Enfield could not make any reasonable quantity of them. Apparently, their tooling was worn to the point that they ceased to possess the means of production. Furniture formulation was never going to be tested as long as the gun could not be produced. Reading the UK publication series "Combat and Survival" I learned of the horrors of the SA80 saga, and the horrid view of the STANAG Magazine. That drove me in the direction of Galil and Kalash for a 308, having also taken a pass on the 556/223. Later getting into the AR15 world, I have perceived ETS Mags to be produced in a way that solved the STANAG Problem, but there are still so many frail little parts. Then being drawn to the 6.5G and the 6ARC, I am embracing the STANAG Problem. What is working against the bullpups is the expanding use of body armor changing the Length of Pull when used in that combination. AR15 and the new MCX family adjust. Original FAL/Galil do not adjust. But the Russians and Americans are making the indefatigable AK Adjust now, so it will continue to maintain respect.

I can see why we are getting the KAC KS1

LA85 IS LIKE british teeth.

3:53 we call them jams or a jam, that specifically we call a "stove pipe"

Us yank American gun owners have A LOT of trigger time (most of us since kids) and honestly probably have shot more than most countries soldiers as its a skill we do throughout our lives...having said that...I wish I could see myself the old SA80/L85's trigger myself as I have always heard it's pretty "bad", but like Garand mentions... you have to put it in context to the times... you can't compare the old trigger to a modern bullpup like the new Tavors or if your a lucky American gun owner can own a Springfield Armory Helion which obviously the designers have learned from the past predecessors like the SA80, either way, carry on Brits rocking those bullpups!

Typically garand thumb is pretty good about this type of stuff, I almost wonder if the rifle was broken, and that bolt release catch was just non functional, and he didn't realize.

18:00 but the M16 has a 20in barrel. The M4 is 5.5in shorter barrel, and also has a shorter stock.

The SA 80 was just being introduced when I left the army.. So I never got to fire it...i had the 7.62 fn fal, SLR rifle.it had hitting power but a little heavy.i guess proper zeroed in L85 could probably be pretty accurate.. It's a trade off I think.. I'd rather take the fn into battle because of the better hitting power at long range...

The *Splendid* got me so good 😂

What I find funny is that while everyone who hasn't served with this rifle calls it horrible, and even the ones who served with it disliked it for its flaws, EVERYONE seems to forget that when this rifle went into service it was so accurate a shooter and the scope was good enough that the MARKSMANSHIP STANDARDS in the British military had to be reevaluated and RAISED at ALL LEVELS, cause the rifle/Scope was accurate enough that everyone was scoring beyond average or normal or even beyond MARKSMANSHIP standards

Love this review.Cool to get the brittish prospective.Hopefully GT can review an A2.

It's like shooting a 22 LR !! Very Accurate and pretty much recoil free !!

I appreciate you not getting butt hurt about all the British jokes lol I feel like it’s our civic duty as Americans to give the British shit but we love you guys you are one of our closest allies throughout history post revolutionary war

I qualified on the A1 with iron sites at 500 yards. I later had an A2 and only got a Susat when I went on OP Telic.;

700 rounds at this point... so roughly 7 years of range qualification ammo when I was I The TA.

If memory served the gun was referred to as the civil servant because it was shit and fired

There exist some ultra rare factory semi auto only l85a1s, most went to Switzerland (where the only video of one was made not that long ago) and supposedly around 50 or so made it into the US.

Actually the H&K redesigned ones we had in the RAF reg weren't that bad. I think the Yanks have just jumped on stories from decades ago. I ended up working for IWM and I remember hearing stories about how the m-16 was a pos when it first came out as well.

You could easily zero a SUSAT with a small adjustable spanner, and a slotted screwdriver - even a leather an as the tools to do this, but since zeroing is done at 100m, and he’s firing at less than 10m, id say he doesn’t know how to zero, and its said just for the video. If you can’t hot a fig11 at the range you don’t deserve to have an option to be honest. I was issued the A1(with SUSAT) from ‘96-‘03, before swapping to the A2, In all that time, I can honestly say, it wasn’t at all a bad system, and it makes me laugh to hear people refer to is a POS in the same sentence as “I’ve never fired this before”, even if it is just for views.

I’m glad you brought up that bolt release

I’d definitely love to see either some garand thumb and Brandon Herrera vids that’s would be awesome

Great content..... The weapon system was ok. I joined in 88 as a junior soldier and we were the first lads to use them with in the Teeth Arms.(As far as I know).... it did have issues first time around but so did the Ar15/M16..... If he was taught to use it correctly he would have a different view..... There was so much wrong with his shooting it was unreal.... The main point he was using the EMB (Emergency Battle Sight) and not the SUSAT.

So I guess it would be fair to say the L85 is the British M16

I was a serving RAF Leading Aircraftsmen, when we switched from the L1A1 to the L85. Yes!! they were somewhat problematic. But they still did the job. You work with what you're given. Simple as. Ours is Not to reason why.... etc etc P.S. In his defence... He's not been drilled into it's use. So he will be unfamiliar with the correct technique that we were all trained in.

Garand Thumb is a National Treasure over here. He's legit. He knows his stuff.

It maybe kind of shitty but gotta admit the gun still looks pretty vibey

fooking helll, thats only 10 yds away, we shooting 100yds in cadets, with the slr, when i was 14! cwrt gothlen

GT and Micah demonstrating why UK civilians are royally SCREWED if we're ever invaded? Like.. "Hang on a minute Mr Enemy Soldier, let me go get my rusty spoons with the edges I sharpened and you'll really be in for it my boy, let me tell you!"

If you got to train and use this rifle, then your manual of arms is second to none!....the L86 or LSW is a drilling machine!...Being a "necky git" had to hump this unbalanced brick for 3 years!....Forget squad fire support, it's actually a squad sharp-shooter at 600m!

Always needing to hit the forward assist every time is bad

The thing is that the Americans love to give this rifle tones of shit but didn’t the A1 of the m16 face similar issues?

Yeah, the action sounds smooth like butter. This was one of my favorite weapons to use in Rainbow Six: Rogue Spear. Unfortunately, the way accuracy and recoil modeling worked in that game, the shorter the weapon barrel the more accurate the weapon was, quite backwards.

With live fire I didn't have that many problems the A1. Blanks was a different matter... Just mag related. The A2 was much better. With the mags I stuffed them down my smock. R - Rounds / repetition A- 'Ave some

I love to see the British view on a vid where a Yank disses the weapon. Fair play on ya mate!

While the SA80A1 certainly had teething issues, it had a lot of potential, and the A2 variant certainly stepped things up massively especially when you have rails involved. There are trade offs for bullpup designs and some will argue for and against one or the other. With the Royal Marines moving to an AR15 variant, I feel that it is a fair decision considering the ergonomics, accuracy potential with higher quality ammo, modularity and reliability of the platform. The SA80A3 in current Army service will serve for a while and no doubt will still do its duty, and the iconic depiction of the A1 and A2 will remain in media for the longest time to come when the Brits are involved. But for a lot of modern shooters, it isn't the best option if you have a choice, but nonetheless still capable and deadly, it a rifle after all and one that saw service in recent conflicts.

I love Garand Thumb should watch more

I think the release you were talking about was the selector system, maybe that was changed for the A2. You kinda missed that when he went over it

Maybe it doesnt have the bolt release on the other side on the A1? Might have been an A2 upgrade

Be good if he did a comparison of the A1 to the A3

I've watched a number of youtube vids now of British military members canting their rifles left and doing that sweep thing over the charging handle side. I was wondering what that was about. Good to know. As I posted on garand thumb's review, as an American I'd *totally* throw down the money for a semi-auto version if they were imported. Just a thought, HK. Just a thought.

Similar situation to the original M16. Something about standard issue rifles - they always have had some bumps in a lot of different countries. Maybe the German Mauser was a success story? The M1 Garand was nice, but had trouble with paratroopers.

Major issue 76- issued 87 ..thats 30 years after the ar15 so he's right the should known better lol . but ofcourse HK upgraded it ...cough*416

He was very fair on his assessment…… I’m an SLR user…… thank god I’d didn’t have that weapon 🙏🏼😎👌🏽

SA bit stands for stops a lot 😂

Having watched his video he appeared to struggle with using the holding open device and bolt release catch. Obviously understanding he’s had zero experience. Also needed to forward assist!

21:08 "Picatinny rail".

Is it still the case that left-handed shooters just have to... learn to shoot right-handed... with the L85/L86? It's just puzzling that a modern and professional western military decided to adopt a rifle where left-handed shooters either have to risk having their face rearranged or having hot gases/brass thrown into them instead of just... allowing the user to switch the ejection port. The irony here being that with the EM-2, at least you could technically get away with shooting it as a left-handed person due to the forward charging handle. Well, from the XL 60 prototype onwards that wasn't a possibility because they had that reciprocating bolt right there in the rear.

Ex Armourer here. Garand Thumb is indeed correct, the A1 is a terrible system. Brittle plastics, weak springs everywhere (particularly the ejector), heavy, poor ergonomics, TMH pins that are easy to strip out leaving the circlip contracted so you can't put them back in easily. The A2 was a reliable gun, but the ergos and weight are still poor, as is the trigger. But at least the springs aren't from a mechanical pencil

tapping the bolt for a forward assist after using the bolt release is stupid ! during the firing cycle ITS NOT the gas system that drives the bolt home, its the recoil spring that drives the bolt home which load a round into the chamber, the gas only drives bolt back which unloads the spent case

Imagine having to tap the forward assist as standard operating procedure. Failure. Just use the M4 you silly geese

I fired the SA80 in the early 90s i found it to be very reliable and with the susat a very accurate rifle(even with the iron site it was pretty accurate, with the susat it turned an average squadie into an effective "sniper"(i don't mean a actual sniper, but this is the an anologue of the increase in ability) with the bayonet and it's scabbard it was really a bit of kit, worth remembering the bull pup design is more effective in urban fighting due to its shorter overall length