What do you think of the hero's decision? Would you be flicking in the call given the pot odds?

really liked the caller. seems intelligent and thinks on a deeper level.

Who needs pot odds when you have RCF (Random Clown Factor) to justify not folding?

That reveal is unbelievable. I feel so bad for hero I would be so mad 😂

Barts reaction to the hand reveal had me in tears😂😂😂😂

Based on all the other thoughts expressed during the hand, Im surprised folding pre isn't at least discussed.

One thing that’s not discussed is that it’s at the Wynn in Las Vegas. Depending on the day/time, you should not see this type of horrible play very often from players at 2/5

Hero was never aggressive to assess the strength of his hand and it cost him.

It's 5-bet jam or fold preflop. You don't have the implied odds to catch up if you're behind, even if one calls off. Not great even if both call off. Spots where you really believe you should fold KK preflop are rare enough to not be a killer long-term if you always call or if you always fold, but you still need to make a decision each time. Since I started counting them, I've been in that spot 7 times. I got all in 5 times, folded 2 times, was wrong all 7 times, and didn't suck out any of the 5 expensive times. For something that happens every 1000 hours of play and gives you a close decision, you can fold it every time without anyone being able to say you're playing scared, and without anyone being able to exploit you. Obviously, if someone finds out you folded KK preflop, and makes the mistake of thinking you can be habitually pushed off KK/QQ/AK every 10 hours, just take them to Value Town 99 times for every time you fold. If I take the 7 times I wanted to fold KK preflop, it was actually a -EV hand on average, 5 of the 7 times. That I made the wrong decision all 7 times is beside the point. If I folded it every time, I would have done better than if I'd called or shoved it every time. It is not weak to fold even a huge hand when you believe it is -EV, and your instincts have a track record of proving right. Don't show it, don't talk about it This particular hand was crazy. If they are playing that way with 77 or JJ, obviously shove KK regardless of their action in the future. The more important thing is to refine your table images of them, and don't leave a table that either is as, without other good reasons. You can't be clairvoyant about how badly or wildly someone plays, until you've seen the symptoms of it surface, as happened in this hand. Preflop, caller felt like he was completely screwed and should fold. Calling off a lot of money preflop, flop, and turn, and THEN deciding to fold the river, wasn't great. I get it that the fold wasn't completely from the screwed feeling from preflop, but from additional evidence of being screwed by the later action. Kudos to the villains for sticking with the story that each had KK or AA. Eventually hero bought the story.

I didn’t see the flop yet, but depending on how I think UTG+2 plays, I’m either going all-in or folding KK preflop. More often than not, I’m choosing jamming over folding.

There is something Bart asked on the flop - which is extremely relevant - that hasn’t been addressed as much. He asked the caller ‘if you call, what are you going to do if the turn is a brick.’ Caller suggested he was calling. So, when the Q comes, it seems he’s adding AQ to the Plus 2s hand - or else he has to make the call he said he was going to make. I could have told you SB was going all-in on turn with only $300 - he should have gotten it in on the flop (if he didn’t just fold, which would have been the right play). If you saw that happening, did you not see Plus 2 shoving? Was he just going to call and leave $400 behind and then fold that on the river, or fold to a raise by hero? None of that makes sense. So, hero didn’t even stick to his own plan.

Haven’t seen the reveal and I’ve never folded KK preflop but facing a limp cold 4-bet I think the play is to exploitatively fold.

I already made a comment but one other thing just occurred to me. Bart glosses over the K coming out on the river as "well, that's just something that happens that becomes irrelevant the more you play poker, the real question is whether you made a good play or not." Normally I agree, but in this instance I think the fact that there's 2 Ks in the deck that give you a win even if you call bad, added to the massive pot odds on the turn, are instrumental in making this a call. So when the K comes after a fold, it's not the usual "oh well, that's poker" but more of a reminder that that's one of the outcomes that should have contributed to a call.

This is such a good call in lol. I love the wild hands because we’ve all seen it at 1/3 and 2/5. Can be hard to balance the normal ranges vs spaz equity 🤣

How do you calculate your pot odds given that you have an implied 5% equity on top of the pod odds? Or do you just look at the straight math of the call?

I think table dynamics against this VIP wasn’t explained enough. Were other players just waiting to isolate the VIP throughout the night? How often was the VIP three betting? If players were just waiting to snipe the VIP then folding KK at any street is a mistake.

This type of thing happens to me so much online. I feel for this guy.

Good hand. Yes to 'crush live poker' like Bart you need a lot of buy-ins, and it helps to be an expert stair climber too in order build your bankroll...about five steps up then four steps down...endless variance swings. Enjoy!

I need to play in these games.

I’m not a nitt but I may fold KK pre givin stack sizes

I played, and lost the biggest pot of my life a few weeks back. I had KK and caught the Russian at my table blasting off. I had the chance to just call 200 or jam for 1050 more. I Jammed preflop and got called by AQ off. Off course the A hit on the flop. But I make that move every time..its better than folding the winning hand.

Haven't heard the reveal yet, but I think at these stakes, against these two V's, we have to call off, simply because of the random nonsense factor. We could be up against JJ or some flush draws. Yeah, we double-block AK, but we can't entirely rule out that either would play AK or even some other worse AX type holdings this way. If we're not going to jam pre, then we should probably continue on any runout that doesn't contain an ace, especially when the Q pairs on the turn.

On that flop with that pot size. I'm probably jamming because I know there are exactly 2 hands I'm losing to. AA and QQ. Just rip it and if they have it GG.

I too would have thought I was beat but couldn't resist the 17% pot odds and would have made a wincing call (which would have turned out pretty good lol).

sheesh...that's brutal. but you gotta jam or fold on the flop here (and i don't really see how you fold tbh). calling and folding to a "good" turn card is insane.

Reminds me of a time when I folded Jacks on a 9 high paired board (9s) on a four way all in and somehow was best the whole way on the reveal.

HILARIOUS but what a GREAT game.

I love this hand, and I wouldve just gone all-in preflop after the 3 bet...bc i just dont think im ever folding the deeper it goes. However, i really thought UTG+1 had AA...

I mean, the hero did say, a non thinking player. AND at turn, he said he isnt worried about SB.. Brutal.

Solvers like getting KK in more than AA pf in many situations because it is very hard to be beaten preflop but very easy to be beaten post flop. Especially letting two players see a flop and a turn. Just asking for it. Stick it in pre. Limp reraiser has AK a lot of

I definitely understand the 'logic' of folding on the turn. Personally I'm calling a spot like that everytime though. There's too many players overvaluing too many smaller pocket pairs. They don't show up with AA or QQ as often as you think they do.

Pre flop if the VIP is known as loose , the utg +2 was just trying to iso. I think recognizing this would lead to the caller 5 betting more tines than not.

Limping in and reraising is almost aces everytime

I'm flicking in the call just because pot odds also, and the hope of spiking a King, and seen enough of these calls to know some players can show up with anything

The jacks never had any resistance that made him think thwy were no good. Maybe he would have folded to a preflop allin maybe not but you are going to assume AA and KK are going to 5 bet maybe QQ too. When the Q hits the flop any AQ type of hand is probably going to raise so the flat call suggests his jacks are likely the best hand. The hand was played trappy to disguise your hand strength and get more money in the pot so you just have to go with it if you're up against AA then that's the breaks.

Yea if you really think these villains are non-thinking rec and vip. You gotta factor in that they have a whole host of spazz hands. Just put the 5! jam pre 😅

Might be the first thing you've ever said that I straight up disagree with. I don't think he can call the 400 on the flop and then fold for 700 more into 2600 against two whales.

I thought the hand was played well until the turn fold. Not because of the reveal. It's just like Bart said. Nothing effectively changed between the flop and turn. If anything, it's the best card you can see other than a king. It's a shift in strategy for no good reason.

At the turn we’re basically hoping to see exactly JJ & AK♠️ at best…. 😒 BUT- if the only reason we flat the flop is to protect our strength and keep them in it- then we have to call/shove to any turn other than an Ace or spade- right?

For the turn bet, you don't need to be better than both, just the plus 2 - you win 150 if you are better than him for this call

Cash games Preflop All in with KKs, if they have AA so be it, that's poker, plus you still aren't drawing dead...tough river in hindsight.

I could see the VIP having Ace-Queen

I honestly would also have folded flop most likely and probably turn as well. I would have had to take a walk after that. Would have been insanely tilted

Just 5 bet jam pre-flop at that point

that's why you should jam pre flop

I would immediately think they are colluding unless they go all in with every pocket pair out of position every time.

This is why I would call. People are silly and given these odds you have to flick in the chip.

I'm always flicking in the call here in your average 2/5 with the player descriptions given. You are for sure good here 17%... You actually only really need to be good about 13% most of the time, because you have about a 4% chance at the river suck out (unless villain has quads.) I think Bart just isn't used to the mindless spaz factor at 2/5.

I’m not good enough to fold here. Putting in the call knowing I’m probably no good. I expect to be up against AA and AQ.

I'm a bad player but when the second queen rolls off, If I lose, I lose, but I'm jamming those kings

What a crazy hand

Against non-thinking rec. I am jamming, if he folds XX, and calls w QQ+, AK, we are still printing. He can call lighter than that and put us on AK. The problem is that not many flops that would give us additional value w VIP behind. If we flats, VIP flats PP (maybe AK might flat / reJAM) and reJAM AA. Against any CBet by +2, we are handcuffed. We have to imagine what flops give us additional EV (compared to jamming pre). My perceive range for OPs would be 88-QQ (VIP), AQs, AK, JJ+ (+2) In this scenario. 2s to 7s are best. 88-TT hit VIP range, J-Q hit both villains range. A hit +2s range hard. Our EV goes down if flop has: - any J,Q,A - any 2 or more of 8,9,T - bad monotone That’s like 70%+ of the flops? (Someone corrects me here). So like 30% of the time we get additional value from JJ (which would’ve folded pre) … like that’s basically it?!? But we also lose value from AK on those flops, it would’ve called pre compared to xf, small cbet? Oh none of these help us get away from AA anyway.

My prediction here on the turn - UTG+2 has Aces, and the SB has either pocket sixes or AKs - let's see

Even without the king river, I'm gonna be on monkey tilt after folding that turn. Though I am never folding that turn, only because the bizarre way the two villains were playing their hands made the possibility they had goofy hands too likely. I've seen it too many times in live poker.

Good god this was so horrible (the result). I felt exactly like Bart did. What an amazing game though! Hope the hero got most of it back. This goes back to pre flop, I'd ripped it and avoided all this shit. If someone has AA they got me.

Can the cut-off have As5s? Or is an ABC player that would never do that.

Call with 300 left is sort of stronger than a jam

Here are all the things that make sense: Folding Pre, Jamming Pre, Calling Pre, Folding Flop, Jamming Flop, and Calling Turn. Calling Flop and Folding Turn are not on that list. That final decision needed to be made on the flop at the latest. I feel for the guy, but that was a terrible turn fold. If it was 5/10, maybe. 0% chance I am folding turn at 2/5, though I wouldn’t be in that situation in the first place because I would have folded or jammed on the flop or preflop.

I was wondering if the caller would ever consider min 5 betting pre being in position, he could click it to 675. I know we don’t like to bet to “see where we’re at”. But if these guys just flat that we know we always have the best hand going to the flop and it can make things less murky post.

Remember people, balancing your ranges only matters when you’re playing against the same people for a while. If you notice a strong exploitative line against randos, always take it.

pot odds have me calling 10 out of 10 times. if they have me beat with quads or aces so be it. came too far to turn back now. if caller was going to fold turn might as well have folded pre or on the flop. very strange logic to fold om a turn bet

If you jam pre you avoid all these decisions if you get coolered you get coolered

If you are going to stack off, why not reraise pre? Where i play, limp raise is almost always AA. What a gross spot multiway. My general rule is, if i get 2/3 of my stack in, im never folding bc of the "spaz" factor seen here. Only exception is vs certain V. Or multiway. Its just hard to be good here. Uhg. Im emotionally drained just listening

If you never fold AA and KK preflop, then you run KK into AA only half the time The other half when it’s KK vs AA you have AA So it’s break even So never fold KK pre, hero should have jammed preflop imo and when you pay off AA then so be it

I’m jamming pre cause I’m not built for what happened here 😭

If your never folding kings pre then you shove pre second best hand after all the dead money that was in already giving opportunities for Ak qq jj to catch a cheaper flop also he was pot commited can never fold in low stakes in that spot

OMG … it was painful!!! 🙏🙏

Just jam pre if he has aces he has aces can’t worry about keeping people in the pot

I’d be so tilted I’d need to leave.

If everyone played GTO then he’d never be good on that turn. In real life, people are dumb and make all kinds of mistakes, where they end up in huge pots with marginal hands like 77. Anytime I’m getting those kinds of pot odds with a hand that strong, it’s a call.

When you under rep your hand you got to call light.

I hate hands like this that teach stationy habits. The turn fold was good. At these limits a flop fold would have been fine too. At 2/5 or lower you can literally fold kings to the limp/4bet pre and be right most of the time.

Can't really blame the caller, since I'm folding pre 😂

I can't understand not jamming pre..... sure, sometimes you're going to run kks into AA but deciphering when that is, is next to impossible. Unless you 100% know the player.

Who calls the flop and folds on the turn. The Hero should definitely call giving that the turn is a queen.

I don't like just flatting pre with a player behind me. Why go to a flop 3 ways with all that money with a hand as strong as K's. Jam if they fold they fold and if someone has A's it's a cooler and you're likely to get it in on most flops/ runouts anyways.

After the flop he’s not in a good spot I may just fold but never would have played it this way the move is to jam pre

Another example why GTO doesn’t work at low limits, the other players don’t know what they’re not supposed to have. But yes, tough spot when you don’t even beat ace queen anymore.

If OP's description is correct, then the non-thinking player is not even thinking at the level Bart is giving him credit for. I think I jam the flop. Definitely can't fold the turn closing the action with those pot odds.

You got to sigh call The River.

I don't hate the fold, but I'm jamming pre for sure. Unreal how bad people are at poker, though. Utterly indefensible from the other guys.

#livePoker do that online and the one guy will show Queens and the other one will show aces.

The play and analysis was so fckn bad here seeing monsters under the bed vs a VPIP'er stuck his lungs and a weak rec. I stopped it at 2 mins and then 5 mins to post wtf just shove but said lemme see. Brutal all around

lol it really hurts so bad omfg

He trapped perfectly until he folded.

Haven’t got to the reveal part yet, but just by listening to Bart and the caller I can already tell they are both tight nits that think they are good, balanced players😂 They think folding KK is an option because “hey I would not raise in my opponent’s shoes if I have anything less than AA”. Like cmon bruh, it’s not 50NL. 😂

this is why i despise no limit. i miss the days where caSINOS WOULD spread 5 different levels of limit from 2-4 to 15-30. and you werent concerned when mr moneybags sits down and makes you play for your stacks no matter what he had.

Rip pre

I could never fold

I went into cardiac arrest at the result. But I would have folded.

If the turn didn’t change much and you folded. Why not just fold on the flop.

I could never fold kks I'm a station wagon 😂

No way I fold . I can’t fold KK to that board

I just fold flop

It's worth losing the hand in order to know you're playing against these two, lol.

Not to be the "actually" guy but.. Actually 🤓 doesn't he only need to be good 12.5% of the time because he has 5% equity in the hand with kings to boat up? Likewise if another queen comes and one guy has jack's, the other guy somehow has a boat, he'd have a better boat. Idk if I could fold that.. Right or wrong. 750 into 4200 😮

Be right back grabbing some Tylenol because this was just painful.

We are fucking slow playing KK now? Dude. All in pre or after flop. Pay or get paid and move on.

Online I'm folding flop, live I'm jamming flop.

Watching this video made me tilted