HP 5245L Nixie Counter - Part 1: The King of 1960s Frequency Meters

Рет қаралды 56,232

Күн бұрын

We start repairing our very broken HP 5245L. It is arguably the king of the Nixie frequency meters of the 1960s. Equipped with the right plug in, it could count up to 18 GHz. Many of them were used in the Apollo communication ground stations. But this digital instrument does not use a single IC: it's all made with individual transistors inside! It feels like repairing a giant IC, but with access to every transistor. We're sure not complaining about it.
5245L Repair-a-thon Playlist: • HP 5245L Repair-a-thon
Documentation on my website: www.curiousmarc.com/instrumen...
Stuff that supports the channel:
- Amazon links for the tools I use in the lab (supports the channel if you buy from there)
www.curiousmarc.com/amazon-links
- Channel merch on Teespring: teespring.com/stores/curiousm...
- Support us on Patreon: / curiousmarc
Our lovely sponsors
- PCBWay: fast turn PCBs, www.pcbway.com
- Electro-Rent: www.electrorent.com
- Keysight: test instruments: www.keysight.com
- Samtec: connectors: www.samtec.com
- R&D Microwaves: rdmicrowaves.com
Get more technical info on the companion site: www.curiousmarc.com
Contact info: kzfaq.infoa...
00:00 The HP 5245L, king of 1960s counters
02:06 HP instruments at an Apollo tracking station
03:19 Looking inside and first turn on
06:04 Power supply check
06:30 Crystal oscillator check
08:58 Backplane and previous failed repairs
10:22 10 MHz Multiplier repair
12:25 Board A35 Time Base Repair
15:24 Board A19 Input checkout
16:41 Board A21 Function Control checkout
19:17 Board A21 repair
25:28 The differentiator works!
26:27 Gate signal fault
27:14 Summary of Episode 1 repairs

Пікірлер: 114

@almostanengineer Жыл бұрын

The biggest issue I have with this channel is Marc’s voice is so calming I fall asleep and have to watch the video multiple times 😅

@neilbarnes3557 Жыл бұрын

So nice to see someone fault-finding in a rational manner, instead of just swapping bits in and out. Of course it helps if you have (a) the manuals and (b) a nice pile of spares for when you do find something broken. Looking forward to part two!

@Bobbias Жыл бұрын

Not to mention c) the knowledge necessary to actually troubleshoot these circuits.

@RicoD5 Жыл бұрын

And d) the talent of explaining complex ancient electronics in an easy and fascinating way.

@headpox5817 Жыл бұрын

And e) having the right test instruments.

@uis246 Жыл бұрын

f) that is why Right to Repair is important

@MAGA-Brad Жыл бұрын

Swapping bits....good one

@berndlangerich4615 Жыл бұрын

Hi Marc, I have two of the 5245L, both are working more or less fine (one has two boards with very marginal neon-decoder-plate that I will be replacing with an updated silicon replacement). One note regarding the oven heater control and the transformer for it: It is unfused on primary side, so if anything goes south and shorts the secondary, the transformer will be burnt. A fuse is very easily installed on one side of the sheet metal besides the transformer and provides safety.

@HainjeDAF 10 ай бұрын

Hi, I'm curious to your silicon solution

@berndlangerich4615 10 ай бұрын

@@HainjeDAF Well, this is not my invention, hp installed a replacement board in later revisions itself. Its schematic can be found in the service manual of those revisions, of course with hp part numbers. Replacement chip can be CD4514 4bit decoder and ULN2003 for nixie driving instead of lots of transistors. Look for change 11/1912A (for 1224 logic) or 13/1932A (for 1248 logic)

@marvintpandroid2213 Жыл бұрын

It is a happy day when we get a new video from you Mr Marc.

@cbmsysmobile Жыл бұрын

I think Marc won't be satisfied until he's got one of everything in HP's catalog...

@darylmorning Жыл бұрын

It's like Pokemon for adults. 😂

@tekvax01 Жыл бұрын

I always enjoy a Marc Repair-a-thon video! Excellent work as always, sir!

@HfLuo Жыл бұрын

Just got a 5245L with 5255A down converter from my friend, and I'm more than jealous about your plugin piles! BTW the unique nixie driver circuit on this machine gives the tubes slightly fade-in fade-out transition, which is amazingly satisfying. Wish you good luck repairing your unit (I'm sure you are), and thank you for showing this beautiful piece of electronic engineering.

@tehlaser Жыл бұрын

8:56 you know it’s a serious vintage repair-a-thon when you end up with two cans of deoxit on the bench

@guyh3403 Жыл бұрын

I could watch this for hours!

@bfx8185 Жыл бұрын

What a series😮 I can watch that every day 🤩Looking forward to next part hopefully not so long 😃

@TheElectronicDilettante Жыл бұрын

I think I have the metal can version of the transistor you need . I’m willing to donate it to the cause.

@624Dudley Жыл бұрын

Wow😮. Fault-finding and repair, in conjunction with comprehension. Such good material! 👍

@goofyrulez7914 Жыл бұрын

HP was/is one of the best instrument makers I've ever had the pleasure to work with. I remember tuning R-390s in the Navy with one of them (HP 8657B).

@MichaelKukat Жыл бұрын

I also have one of those, repaired it a while ago, main fault was a replaced transistor, someone put a silicon transistor in it, and they have problems with more than 5V reverse on the B-E. With a germanium transistor, it came back to live. I totally loved the neon lamp based BCD decoders. Wonderful machine. It came from a local large radio station. One day I want to get some new nixies because the Russian replacements are ugly, they used the same digit for 5 and 2 which simply isn't pretta. The original nixies had several problems, so I had to replace them, but I'm not happy with the current state.

@MonkeyUnit Жыл бұрын

CuriousMarc + an ailing HP 5245L = quality content

@MeriaDuck Жыл бұрын

Over 18GHz in the sixties, wow!

@peteroneill404 Жыл бұрын

My 5245L is still going with no issues after 60 years. Had some 2N708s and 709s fail in my 5360A computing counter.

@KeritechElectronics Жыл бұрын

Enjoying the repair a lot! What a magnificent unit :)

@mathewmcgill6266 Жыл бұрын

I started my career as an electronic technician back in the mid-70s. I was an Air Force metrology technician and had used and repaired lots of those counters along with their plug-ins.

@iamdarkyoshi Жыл бұрын

Excited for the next episode, you all have the coolest gear to work on, and you're good at it :)

@zebop917 Жыл бұрын

I’d say my electronics knowledge is at the level where I have a pretty good understanding of Ohm’s Law. Nevertheless I find these repair-a-then videos completely fascinating.

@ronjohnson9690 Жыл бұрын

Amazing work, and most difficult in providing an explanation. Very well done, Marc.

@alibehboudi Жыл бұрын

one the best channel on you tube ,tnx for informative subjects

@nickhuwar7920 Жыл бұрын

The rm503 was my very first scope I ever had. Got it when I was in high school. Loved that scope.

@NuGanjaTron 11 ай бұрын

Great job, Marc. Nice to see somebody figuring one of these beasts out! I rescued a 5247M from the physics lab dumpster many years ago (back when it was still publicly accessible!). This (budget?) model is considerably rarer and difficult to find schematics for. After establishing the counter didn't budge, I ended up buying the service manual and started poking around inside. I soon realised that it, too, had previously been monkeyed with. Infact, it was in pretty bad shape overall. One of the Nixies had failed as it apparently took air. The 5254C 3 GHz (!) plugin it came with had completely seized up, and no amount of solvent I tried (from mild to aggressive) could free it up for more than a day or so. After several weeks I realised the project was gonna take more of my time -- and bench space -- than I had to spare, so gave up and sadly flogged the thing for parts. I really do regret that, but after seeing the difficulty even you had in sourcing replacements trannies, it's clear to me I wouldn't have had a chance in hell of getting it working again, or at least not up to spec.

@tbp-channel8870 Жыл бұрын

Wow! Maximum compressed data file with no bit memory-consumption. Maybe the search function depends on the quality of the glasses for checking the HP-FICHE! 😁🙃 Nice Video, as always. Cheers!

@JoeJalopy Жыл бұрын

Good work.

@Derpy1969 Жыл бұрын

Analog devices will always be repairable!

@DaCoder Жыл бұрын

Can't wait for the next one 😁

@eliotmansfield Жыл бұрын

Reminds me of the Tandy catalogue, was always a joy to see what was “new for 1983” 😂

@benjaminhanke79 Жыл бұрын

04:40 I didn't expect to see Antoine in your basement.

@FXGreggan. Жыл бұрын

Cheers, using my 5248L still to this day..

@baggins1 Жыл бұрын

Nice! Used many times in AF cal lab. Ca'ld too.

@jensdecker8864 Жыл бұрын

One day I will find to read the Horowitz Hill standing on the board behind me ;-) Helped me quite a lot for some minor OP Amp stuff I had to do during my chemistry/laser spectroscopy PhD

@firepower9966 Жыл бұрын

Repairathon the bestathon 😂

@DavidSprings Жыл бұрын

Most things made in 1960 were top-notch. Present company included.

@canadianman000 Жыл бұрын

I have this exact counter fully functional! Mine just doesn't have the accessory module. Mine still works and yes I use it!

@jimmycrider8677 Жыл бұрын

I used this in the Air Force in testing Radar LRU's (Line Replicable Units) from the F111D

@cthoadmin7458 Жыл бұрын

God, I love Nixie tubes!

@nigefoxx Жыл бұрын

Nice. Mine has similar problems due to the STORAGE toggle switch on the rear panel occasionally making a poor connection.

@W1RMD Жыл бұрын

All switches on all equipment should be worked vigorously from time to time as a matter of practice. A friend of mine had a Kenwood TS 830 ham radio that would flutter in frequency. He took apart the radio, re-soldered connections, tightened screws and many other things, There's a button on the front marked "fix" that was only used if you had a crystal for one "fixed" frequency instead of the dial to tune the frequency. Obviously no one ever used this feature. Then fix was pushing the fix button repeatedly. It never had a problem again!

@douro20 Жыл бұрын

The display boards aren't exactly BCD...they're something close but not quite. That is what I thought of at first when I tore down a Dymec 2401 a long time ago. I still have one or two of the display boards. BTW that meter actually had tubes in the power supply, including a couple of Nuvistors which I unfortunately no longer have. I did salvage an enormous amount of good germanium transistors out of it.

@CuriousMarc Жыл бұрын

You are right. Actually there were three or four options you could get, one would give you "modern" 8421 BCD, other 2421, etc... I think most of the early HP instruments that output in BCD didn't have 8421 by default. We'll wrangle with the unusually weighted BCD counting in the next episode.

@jackrubin Жыл бұрын

Hooray! Back to HP bench gear AND Apollo. If you gotta go Tek, the RM503 isn't a bad choice either.

@russellhltn1396 Жыл бұрын

6:48 the signals on the back are more than convenient. Zero beat the 10MHz output against the 10MHz broadcast from WWV and bingo bango, you have calibration traceable to NIST.

@RogierYou Жыл бұрын

Its like an adventure puzzle :-)

@Thomas-yj8fd Жыл бұрын

Yaaaaay!! New video!!! I love them!

@randycarter2001 Жыл бұрын

The most vulnerable part of a frequency counter is the input circuitry. It's very easy to push a to high of a voltage signal in. By the time you've realized what you've done, it's to late.

@alanbain1651 Жыл бұрын

The Q2 failure on board A35 failure described is a common one (no 10MHz); the most likely root cause is a faulty plugin (I have an example here of a 5254A which due to rough handling had a short on the plugin connector). And don't forget the ferrite bead, if you do (or HP did) or you will find a helpful parasitic on the Freq Reference output somewhere in the 85MHz region. I would then refer people to the classic article "Prevent Emitter Follower Oscillation" in Electronic design Vol 24#13

@MLX1401 Жыл бұрын

4:00 Oh yes, back in the sixties you still needed to hand-crank your lab equipment to start

@lukefoulger5104 Жыл бұрын

@AvE “Full Chooch” mention at 11:58

@ShainAndrews Жыл бұрын

What are you talking about?

@ocsrc Жыл бұрын

WOW that's a nice counter Back then the frequency spacing was .030 MHz

@jaut-76 Жыл бұрын

Sweet first. Can’t wait for the ups and downs of this pretty piece of 60s kit

@cheapasstech Жыл бұрын

I suppose there were no adc/dac systems back then- did they create the square waves using a ‘buck-converter’ circuit (which is still in use today for voltage step down) ?

@Thesignalpath Жыл бұрын

Marc, in case you have not see this: A Uniquely Complicated Nixie Tube Clock: HP 5245L Electronic Counter & ERA EasySynth++ kzfaq.info/get/bejne/qM-PqLKm1NOmm6c.html

@CuriousMarc Жыл бұрын

Nice to see you here! Nicely done!

@savagemessiah. 10 ай бұрын

I only know about this sort of electrical signal stuff from my modular synth so maybe this is a completely normal thing but I thought it was interesting that the waveshape seemed to be different for each clock division. I would have expected it would be square waves throughout.

@tomsherwood4650 Жыл бұрын

Very heavy and also usually the fans are quite loud. But they work nicely if you can accomodate one.

@CuriousMarc Жыл бұрын

Yep it's a loud boy.

@moo3993 Жыл бұрын

Hey Marc! Purely out of curiosity, do these HP machines and test equipment have functions, and things they do, that may or isn't found on modern equipment? Thank you Marc for your videos and time as always!

@viperwizard491 Жыл бұрын

I got CH3-34 9digit 200MHz nixie frequency counter with s^^t load of transistors in it tunnel diode logic circuits

@siberx4 Жыл бұрын

Crazy to me that there was a time when it made sense to pack a piece of test equipment full of transistors but build memory elements out of neon lamps, instead of using those very same transistors to simply make some discrete flip-flops...

@martinh8481 Жыл бұрын

I always assumed that it was a transistor breakdown voltage issue. The neon nixie's required more voltage than the transistors of the day could handle, so they had to come up with a very creative way of accomplishing it without the use of transistors.

@n9ghtb9k5r Жыл бұрын

did anyone else notice at 17:29 (and again at 19:18) it was counting and showing 1khz? thinking maybe it just takes time for it to count and average the signal?

@PedroDaGr8 Жыл бұрын

Looks like it had non-zero values on the display at 13:36 as well.

@lanealucy Жыл бұрын

Or maybe a not good connection somewhere

@stargazer7644 Жыл бұрын

It isn’t counting. The gate light is off. It comes up with random digits on powerup until you clear the counters.

@zaprodk Жыл бұрын

01:09 is that a solder blob on one of those IC's in the counter?

@dwanseicheine7409 Жыл бұрын

Has one of the first Corvus 5 meg drives,,,in packacking..with EVERTYHING. Interested?

@youreale Жыл бұрын

Those things was cutting-edge electronic wizardry for that era. The best one could do with the available technology. Just curious to know how much does it cost in current dollars.

@tedrobinson372 Жыл бұрын

In my 5245L, I changed the fan to a more modern more quiet fan.

@CuriousMarc Жыл бұрын

That might be a worthwhile mod. Which one did you use?

@tedrobinson372 Жыл бұрын

@@CuriousMarc I used a 12 volt one of the same physical size. It had almost the same air movement but was considerably quieter!

@rtybn2012 Жыл бұрын

My internal 1 Mhz oscillator could not be adjusted to 1Mhz. Have an external 1Mhz oscillator that is lock to the color burst frequency?

@no-one3795 Жыл бұрын

It's funny how those old school test equipments are much more repairable compared to modern iPhones.

@Irilia_neko Жыл бұрын

The components, and performance aren't the same 😉

@Mordecrox Жыл бұрын

@@Irilia_neko the trillion dolar gigacorp thanks you for coming in their defense. What repairability and performance have to do with each other?

@inothome Жыл бұрын

One was built with repairability in mind and one was designed to be as unserviceable as possible.

@PWMaarten 11 ай бұрын

Cheeky Roland Juno-6 or 60 behind the transistor tester.

@MarcelHuguenin Жыл бұрын

As always very interesting to follow you doing the debugging and analysing of such a piece of old tech. Thanks Marc.

@Lunchpacked180 Жыл бұрын

if anyone knows the music marc uses in these intros/outros, i would appreciate the information. ive tried to shazam it etc, but it comes up mua roi by le thu, there are several songs, but i cant find any song by that name that sounds even close

@74HC138 Жыл бұрын

From the doodly-doo on the Quindar Tones video: Music Credit: Crinoline Dreams by Kevin MacLeod (edit: wait, that's just the elevator music)

@CuriousMarc Жыл бұрын

It's Festive Dinner by Pony Music.

@crowguy506 Жыл бұрын

Still waiting for Marc to make up names for those engineers on the picture based on their clothing...or missing of some.

@HainjeDAF 10 ай бұрын

Hi is there anyone ho can help me to a photoresistor board to control 1 nixie? I laid my hand son a 5245 but one photoresistor board is broken.

@ReneSchickbauer 11 ай бұрын

From a time before HP turned into the printer cartridge mafia.

@ocsrc Жыл бұрын

I don't know if they were even using C-band yet I think it was not till the 70s they started using 3 GHz to 5 GHz for satellite

@ReneKnuvers74rk Жыл бұрын

A Juno 6 or 60 in the backgroud. Is this a new project, Marc?

@CuriousMarc Жыл бұрын

That's my trusty Juno 6 that I bought new in the 1980s. Still works today!

@ReneKnuvers74rk Жыл бұрын

@@CuriousMarc I had no idea you played keys too!

@ocsrc Жыл бұрын

18 GHz, this was before Ku band was used

@spencerriley1805 9 ай бұрын

How much are they?

@anuardalhar6762 Жыл бұрын

What happen to HP now? Computer Division? Instrument Division - Agilent? Are they still in operation right now?

@CuriousMarc Жыл бұрын

The instrument division and true HP heir is Keysight. They still make very beautiful, very expensive instruments, particularly top end RF and optical communications.

@DAVIDGREGORYKERR 5 ай бұрын

What about a BF244 N Channel FET.

@Chiavaccio Жыл бұрын

👏👏👏👏🔝🔝🔝🥇

@AppliedCryogenics Жыл бұрын

HP and TEK were so awesome in their heydays. It's sad how in the 1990's, HP got typecast as a consumer electronics company, selling ink-jet printers at below-cost while price-gouging on the ink.. and mid-tier generic PC clones. If I had a time machine, I'd go to early- 1960's Silicon Valley and buy a home.

@Mr_Meowingtons Жыл бұрын

im so early this video is 360P

@stargazer7644 Жыл бұрын

Congratulations?

@DAVIDGREGORYKERR 5 ай бұрын

Silicone on Sapphire.

@user-ln9ce7fz7y Жыл бұрын

I used some Soviet instruments and frequency meters from the 80s. I am surprised that many Soviet devices have 90% similarity in design and internal structure. I think that the electronic industry of the USSR just decided to copy Western samples.