Thanks that really means a lot!

Thank you very much, being comfortable on camera has been slowly becoming easier with time.

You're welcome! That's great to hear good luck on your 69 Trans am it would be cool to be able to bring it back to life.

That's awesome to hear you're welcome and good luck!

Thank you!

Thank you very much for the kind words.

Thank you for watching and the feedback. I agree 100% we are lucky to live in a world where these companies and the aftermarket support make restoring these cars possible when they are this far gone.

Thank you!

Thanks for watching!

Thank you very much for the continued support and the feedback that really means a lot. Good luck on your 69 Charger build let and keep me updated on how its going.

Thanks for watching!

Thank you appreciate it!

I agree this would be for most a parts or scrapper car, but its been titled in my name for a long time and I am stubborn and said I will build it some day 25 plus years ago. I have the personality where I will spend $100 to prove a $1000 point and this car is the perfect example of that.

@@carthageclassiccars ahh, missed the part where it is yours. I understand the sentimentality. Been acquiring, holding, storing, moving, tarping , untarping four mopar abodies since the late 80s, 91,and 2000. Finally have shell of my shop up and some time and money to hopefully do them right. Yeah, I'm one of "those guys". 😎

Thanks and I appreciate you following along with the build!

I agree with you actually, I said that to my mother when we last talked about the car a couple days ago.

Thanks a lot and awesome to hear you built your car!

Thank you very much!

Yes actually exactly what you said was what run through my head I guess for the youtube content good thing it didn't just need a floor pan.

Thanks

Thanks a lot, I have a video coming out in the next few days with the progress on this car.

I will try my best to show that, thanks for watching!

You are welcome

Thanks a lot that is a really nice compliment. I do really appreciate you watching.

Thank you very much and I agree with you 100%. I probably could get some money for the rusted pile if I spent the time to go through it and sort it. Honestly I have too much to worry about with everything else going on in the shop and life. When i don't need the parts anymore and the car is complete if I see anyone needing parts I usually offer them or just scrap them to not even deal with the nightmares that can arise from something not described ect.

Tombstone would be a really interesting place to live full time especially with the shows they put on in the tourist area. I use to really enjoy our trips down there

@@carthageclassiccars I live in the Black hills of South Dakota now. I'm an hour from Deadwood where they do re-enactments of the shooting of Wild Bill Hickock. Lots to see here if you've never been. Everyone should visit here at least once. Most come back after once.

@@adubbelde1 I will remember that if I am out that way. I would enjoy that for sure!

Thanks a lot! Nice yea I know where you are at.

I think someone posted earlier and said the original color of this one was Azteck Gold. It might be hard to see on camera but I think it is more of a gold especially since the interior is bright gold so they would have matched. Thanks a lot for watching

Thank you

Keep me updated on your progress when you do tackle it. So the factory color is galled Aztec gold, thanks I never actually looked up the name before.

@@carthageclassiccars yes I had ordered the build sheet from the Pontiac historical society. They have given me the copy of the build and specs this car came with. Pontiac was good at keeping records for their vehicles.

Actually I already have the engine, but still unsure the exact route so thinking through ideas

Thanks

Thank you

That is an option, they are just very cheaply made and take a lot of work to fix all the issues that come with them. Also even if you are paying our shop to build this car when it comes down to it its still around the same cost. I will also say that if you check out some of my videos I install the front ends first before I weld up the rear sheet metal this makes the fitment a whole lot closer needing less in the bodywork phase saving some extra money and hassle down the road.

Thanks and I completely get it. I saw you had a new video come out that I wanted to check out but been so busy haven't been able to yet.

@@carthageclassiccars i hear ya man busy year. I usually watch most the video In the winter

@@SubdivisionAuto yes where you live I would never go outside lol

Thanks for watching. Yes first car and in the video before this one of your see it yes I address the fact it's not going to be worth the restoration but I know what I want and how I want it built so I'm ok with spending the time and money on the project. Again I appreciate you checking out the channel.

@@carthageclassiccars some things are worth more than money, I get it and I am guilty myself lol good to see it saved, memories are priceless

Thank you, yes I wish I could have kept more but rust had other plans.

Haha yes that about sums up the thinking here, thanks for watching.

A labor of love to really work on any of these cars

its special enough for me to realize the only way to have the car I want is to build it myself to this level.

@@carthageclassiccars Beautiful work man. I admire the determination. I miss my old 69 camaro for sure.

Thanks!

The state I live in only requires a VIN inspection of the dash vin if it is not altered. I already own the car titled and registered so its even less of a problem for me since I can go to the DMV and get plates on it tomorrow if I wanted. My opinion is I am not doing anything shady as far as I am openly trying to keep the car as original as possible and restoring it best I can and can't control the rust it has suffered. There is that I know of nothing in writing that you need to have X percentage of the original to be considered a rebody vs a restoration. Its a gray area for sure on some forums and open topics of discussion.

Off my JIG I measure 8 1/2 to the bottom of the floor where I ended cutting it off the rockers. That would be 8 1/8 inches off the datum line I believe. As for the front my subframe, bushings were shot and falling out could not check the car on the front mounts. This will be a measurement I will go off as it goes together. Personally I don't get too caught up on a lot of numbers especially on the bottom as as long as its tracking straight, the body fits well and driveline angles are where I want them. I will also check camber /caster in a lot of these cars as building as another way to doublecheck. There are times I will modify some of these measurements on purpose to produce a handling characteristic I want or make the body tighter. For instance lower front leaf spring mounts tend to produce more drive in a car. Also bringing in the leaf springs slightly towards each other in the front mounts will help stiffen and give side bite in the corners.

haha thanks

That's awesome to hear take your time and think it through you'll be able to knock them out. Keep me updated on how they are going. The Tram gauge is Killer tools, I believe you can find it right on amazon

Dynacorn bodies need a lot of work. I currently have a new body in my shop someone brough over for me to fix its issues straight from dynacorn

So acid dipping in my opinion is something to feel good about but your banking on the unknown. Yes it would remove the rust, but like some of these cars I have worked on there might not be anything left of the inner structure where you can't see making the car structurally weaker and you might not know. Also one you get the car in bare metal how would you then apply primer so it doesn't rust again. Just a thought. I really like to strip them down and wet blast and epoxy knowing what is left is fully protected. Thank you for the comment.

Thank you for that insight I would have never guessed. Your train of thoughts make great sense and I can really appreciate the way you operate.

Thank you, so my take on the dynacorn bodies and what I heard. I think those bodies are build to try and keep cost down sacrificing quality a little bit. There is NOT weld through primer between the seams, they are not epoxy coated and from some of the stuff I have pulled apart a lot of their stuff between panels is bare metal. So 10 years down the road that brand new body will start to rust again. I am OCD and a like these car near perfect I will also add 2-3 times more spot welds making my car a lot stronger, I can guarantee I will not be happy with the fitment of a brand new body same as I wouldn't be happy with factory gaps. I know some tips and tricks to get the door gaps smaller that I can adjust while building. For me I am not worried about labor cost but I honesty don't think it will be a big difference when I factor in my labor and cost of parts vs a brand new body cost with shipping. I am going to calculate it and try and figure it out so I know for sure. Parts for these cars are cheap we are talking frame rails at $160 ect and building a entire brand new car its not as labor intensive as you would think. Hopefully that helps clear some of this build up for you.

@@carthageclassiccars thank you for the detailed reply. I had no idea that the Dynacorn bodies were so poorly finished. Having only seen a few at SEMA, I thought the quality was higher. I’m looking forward to following you on this build and partaking in the knowledge you’ll undoubtedly share.

@@waltergreen6285 I want to clarify I have never seen their complete body up close. I hope I get an opportunity too. I based that off what other's I know have said and what I see in their pre assembled parts. Honestly for most unless you are looking for certain stuff you might not even see and their defense they have to do what it takes to try and keep cost down.

So that is a loaded question lol. My opinion I think its always better to build the quality car the way you want it. How I mean its not worth it is for the most part you can find one cheaper then you will have in the long run after you buy everything else but you never know what you are buying. You will also probably never be able to sell it what you have into it without cutting corners. If that was the case I would build them myself and sell to the public. I also have seen cars that are "high end" top dollar show cars with paint bubbles and rust showing signs of coming up and other red flags showing corners that were cut. I think what I mean by this comment more then anything is plan for the WORSE! Don't be surprised if your Nova end up like this. As far as should you do it, I think a lot of factors come into play, budget, free time, and skillset. I say think about it run the numbers and if you do I really wish you luck any other questions let me know and thanks for watching my videos.

Haha as much as I appreciate being different, I don't think this car will be that way. Plus it wouldn't be original I have helped a buddy when we were growing up with his firebird with camaro nose and he made decals that said "transroc z"

If you are building it yourself, you can save a little money this way vs a dynacorn body. Saying that the quality I am building this car at I feel is far superior then a dynacorn body. I currently have a 69 dynacorn camaro in the shop that I am fixing all the issues with it. The problem with the dynacorn cars is they are made to make as much money as possible and cut cost were they car. No weld through primer used, as minimal spot welds as needed. I can also add my custom suspension stuff as I am building if you watch a few more videos on this car to make it easier. It seems the front end fitment is a little more challenging to get very close body gaps, none of the trunks align and when its all done we have found rust under the dynacorn coating with a little filler in spots. I am not saying a dynacorn body is a bad idea. Where I see and want the quality of this car it is a no for me.

@@carthageclassiccars thanks for getting back so quick. My biggest concern is the quality of the complete bodies. This is a build for a customer, and the expectations are high. If I have to do a lot of reworking of the new body meet the standards I would probably regret it.

@@carthageclassiccars if do build it out of pieces instead of buying a complete body is Dyancorn pieces the best quality ?

Good luck on the build and the direction if you have any other questions feel free to reach out.

Oops your 69

You can email me at carthageclassiccars@gmail.com and we can talk offline, thanks

Yes you are probably right on the weight total. It might be a few truck orders as I know some parts are out of stock at AMD.

I guess there is a fine line for sure between restoration and brand new.

Yes I agree it is really gone. Congrats on building one that was also really messed as it is a big undertaking. I am fortunate enough to have some quality tools that should help and make the job a little more efficient but we will see how it turns out.

@@carthageclassiccars I think it was a good thing for you to say “..be prepared..”. The customer has to made to understand to prepare for the absolute worst case scenario. Doing these major body rebuilds has gotten much harder as all the people posting these builds on KZfaq comment how hard (or how long, if at all) it is to get replacement panels.

@@johnkelly6942 Yes you are 100% correct especially for the parts I have a few of them stalled from the parts alone.

Yes not too much that's what I was thinking

@@anthonywright774 I wouldn't say money to burn at all and 100% no sponsorship help at this point from anyone just hard work and saving my money. Of course I am not paying anyone else the labor, but If you know anyone that wants to help out please send them my way Ill wear a shirt and give them a shoutout. Also not sure if you were able to see but the whole bottom of the firewall had holes on it and same under the dash nothing but rust. It will be sandblasted on the next video as I also will do that myself but no sense in wasting blasting time and money on panels I know are destroyed. The firewall is $300 and the dash is $94 is it really worth Nickle and diming to save one or two parts here and there at this point.

First I have to say you are a true craftsman. 2nd you are a true craftsman and know your trade to the T. I absorb so much from your videos. Ok, so now question. What is acceptable to use for the sail panels and A pillars if I'm unable to use lead? Thank you in advance.

@@cjones22p Thank you very much and I agree for most projects lead is not worth the time and effort. I would recommend either Evercoat metal to metal (aluminized filler) or Evercoat Kitty Hair (long strand fiberglass filler) Be aware it is tough to sand down so I would as soon as its drying but can be sanded use 40 grit sand paper sometimes ill even use the DA sander to get in roughed in. Once you get it really close you will probably have to skim coat it with some good quality body filler to really fine tune in the curves. Good luck!

Yes that should be a good solid base to work off of.

Sentimental value.

Yes there is some sentimental value and honestly I have half the cost in parts of the reproduction equivalent full body. I feel I build a better quality body, more welds , better fitment, and a lot more protective coating inside because I don't want to cut costs. I also think the car will mean more to me when I can look back and say I built almost the entire car from scratch. I am trying to do a cost analyst on what my parts and labor would run for me to build something similar vs the full reproduction's body back half like you can buy.

The reason he won't buy the complete repro body is he can't afford the cost all at once. Same reason he just doesn't buy an already complete car.

@@MAn-ti3ul haha nice, you actually made my night I guess you haven't seen any of my other video literally this is what I do, build cars for others. I guess times are lost on the pride on doing something for yourself vs paying some big name company. Also yes you are correct I am not a person that has the ability to spend a money for a finished one all at once I keep buying all the tools to build these cars instead. .

@@carthageclassiccars I too work on these old cars and it's not about pride in workmanship but about economics. It's cheaper, quicker and better for the customer to just replace vs. repair. My process gets the jobs done in 30 days or less and for at least half of what other shops charge in my area!

thanks

Well the biggest reason on fixing this old car would be it has a title and can be easily registered. Swapping VIN numbers on a new body is not really legal but rust repair on classic cars is legal. I tried to save what is left and have a true 69 pontiac firebird I can legally register without and issues with my state. Also what i did save was parts I did not have to buy and parts on the inner structure really save a lot of time acting as a JIG for the roof and other areas. I am not one to replace parts unless I know it will save time and money.

Yes unfortunately I see the outcome all the time of people spending their hard earned money and find their dream car to only be in this stage with a uphill battle they weren't prepared for fixing major hidden rust.

Well its my car so if you want a rust free solid car this to me is the better alternative vs spending 30-40 K on some bondo slapped covered flipper car that you will have nothing but issues down the road. So losing my ass they are not that crazy to build and the arts don't cost that much knowing what you get in the long run.

@@carthageclassiccars If it's your car that's a different story, you have the skills to make the repairs and not pay for labor. I live in AZ and have sold used parts for 23yrs, I don't see rusted cars and pull parts for a living. They are still out there but very few in the rust belt that are not full of mud. With your knowledge, you would not purchase one that was to begin with.

Yes you could but the new ones need just as much work to get them looking really nice and I feel i will build a better quality car for a cheaper price in the long run.

I honestly disagree with you on every aspect of this comment. This car was "unrestorable" in the eyes of most and to even be put on the road would have needed almost each one of the parts I spready planned on replacing. Its rusting from the inside out and structurally not sound and would have issues with it unless the rust was removed. If I was going to sell it even as a parts car maybe worth 1K max. The parts that are left are worth more to me the 1K in new parts. Also I personally feel I can build a full body f-body car with better quality then any dynacorn body complete with more welds and epoxy primer under the outer structure. If you seen any of the following videos in the series so far its looking that way so I stand by my choice and think it was the right way to go. Have a basic structure as my guide to JIG off and when this is done I will have a whole lot less in the cost of everything new into this car then you can buy a Dynacorn body for shipped to my door.

@@carthageclassiccars Respectfully disagree and stand solidly by my statement. You just trashed a perfectly viable original firebird to build a Taiwan sheet metal replica. “Unrestorable in the eyes of most”. Who’s most? Sure as heck not me. There was great solid sheet metal on that car. A lot of it. I mean, this car needs some work, no doubt, especially rear frame rails and the dash area, but these can be solidly patched as they should have. If the hidden surface rust is what scares you you could have acid dipped the car. If that’s cost prohibitive for you then I truly hope you don’t get your hands on too many more classics. They don’t make them any more and they’re impossible to replace. Leave the classics to the others who keep these things as original as possible. An original with solid repairs is worth 100 of these aftermarket stamped replicas. Hey, just my two cents. My comments don’t carry any more weight than anyone else’s. But damn I hated to see it. Take care.

@@JT-LV Yes we are on different pages for sure. I want to build a car better then factory that lasts 50 plus years not try and polish a turd, from a cost standpoint it is more efficient to replace panels. Just one more thing acid dipping, Ok so we acid dip the car and the acid removes all the rust between panels and in areas we can't see or gain access. So how to we protect the bare metal we can NOT access anymore. My opinion on acid its great for the short term once the bare metal is clean that car will aggressively start to rust 5 years from that point where you couldn't get acid. Also with the acid how do we know there is anything left of the inner structure. Maybe check out my video on a 73 challenger where the roof skin was in perfect shape and when I decided to cut it off due to signs under the edges of it there was nothing left behind it structurally. Most of these cars you say to keep original are floating around like this rotten from the inside. Owner was wondering decades before why it kept cracking the paint around the rear quarter glass and it was because the car was so weak from the rot that it was flexing.

@@carthageclassiccars yeah exactly, bad window channel. Common problem, easy fix. There were a lot of easy fixes on this firebird but you just trashed the whole car. I guess you need content and I can understand that. Buddy, you can have your homemade dynacorn for 50 years and I’ll have my original sheet metal classic for 50 years too. I promise you if it rots from the inside you’ll be the first to know but it isn’t going to happen. 100/100 it’s not going to happen, unless you live in the jungle or leave it outside in a field, but who does that to a classic? In any case, though, in all honesty I would hope, if you ever sell the car, you tell them that it’s 99% aftermarket sheet metal. We’ve got to preserve the real ones from the fake ones. Please.

@@JT-LV I was talking about the entire inner structure under the roof areas that you wouldn't be able to see. I have pulled many of them apart and its the same story, if you see any other videos on this channel most of the cars are a sunrise of rotten mess under the "origional " body. You seem to have an unrealistic emotional connection to something (the classic muscle car) that was designed to only last 5 or so years after they were made, Planned obsolescence, they were built cheap back in the day and its obvious when you dig into them. Especially since most people did leave them in the field the first 30-40 years of their life. This one exactly its been in a fiel for 25 plus years. I don't know what the complete problem with the twain steel is, when the car is painted and bodyworked like you basically stated no one will ever know the difference. The thickness is the same on the quality panels and its stronger then older rotten panels. I am not doing this channel for views or I would LS swap it the way it was and do burnouts until it blew up. I am trying to educate on how I go about building cars and am open to other opinions for sure and do love debate different ways of building. Thanks for giving me your opinion on what I am doing and watching the channel, like you said we will just respectively disagree on our ideas on how to build at least this 69 Firebird.