LOL. I can only image the amount of ground they both covered in that fight with those wide turns

We used energy maneuvering and tried as much as possible to operate vertically rather than horizontally

@@birgerkagan6087 good call! prevents crossing into too many countries that way.

@@swright5690 That was, however, not the reason. With a G-limit of 5 G with tiptanks and 6,5 without them and a wingloading like shit it was a necessity and one way of making the most out of the planes superior speed capability and thrust to weight ratio

@@swright5690 hopping in and out of the atmosphere poses a bit of a problem

Thank you for sharing that experience. Funny how similar things are happening these days too, with PRC probing Taiwanese air defense. You have to admit the Taiwanese are quite brave, living under a constant threat like that.

F-104 means a lot to Taiwan and it is always the best fighter in Taiwanese military fans’ mind. The Star fighter forever!

They moved the museum to Kaohsiung. The collection is even bigger now.

@@stevengogogo1234 Thanks so much, I didn't know that. When I return to TW I'll go check that out with my 7yo son growing up 'just up the road!'

Thanks for the comment and info!

That F-104 was claimed to be shoot down by commies aviator Shou-Ken Hu.

@@showtime112 honestly, when I see cannon shoot down Mig, this is the first thing came into my mind. This is not historical accurate. But the dog fight is too good, so I don’t complain. Awesome! And thanks for making videos of ROCAF

@@tianzining Limitations of the F-104 mod mare some of these inaccuracies necessary. If we get a better F-104 one day, I will probably remake this. As for ROCAF, as soon as MiG-17 module is released for DCS, I will do the famous Sabres vs MiG-17s battle with the first use of air-to-air missiles. That's a story that needs to be covered!

I am not sure the Chinese have a thing about Friday 13th. Possibly they both had too much chi.

A true space race age specimen 😁

Yes it does look like it belongs on the Jetsons. Growing up I had an attraction for daughter Julie.

It's certainly one of a kind :) Thank you for your comment!

The Starfighter, who was one of the first RCAF instructor pilots in 1961 was my father's favourite aircraft. He felt it was the best fighter in the sky and often proved it in Europe.

"The six" as it was called was the most underrated and underutilized platform of the century fighters. It was basically part of a powerful national defense radar system which it used for direction and didn't rely much on its own radar. Very fast, powerful and quick climbing, it carried missiles internally and the Falcon missiles being developed for it became the Phoenix used by the F-14. The F-106 might have easily be been developed into a platform similar to Mirage but better.

Currently one on static display at Luke AFB.

@@fieldlab4 Well, Bruce Gordon was certainly very positive about the 106. I recommend anyone to listen to some of the interviews he gave if you haven't already.

Oh, I believe that it was 😁

It's one of those things that people just love, I guess. Charismatic for some reason.

I was in Air Force ROTC during the early 80's we took a field trip from Buckley to Luke and got to see those Starfighters with the Iron Crosses on the tails. Cool 😎

The F-104G's at Luke did not have " Iron Crosses" on them. They were marked with U.S. Air force markings.

@@donaldmyck4296 Not sure when you where there but when I was they definitly had Iron Crosses on them. Maybe they were just visiting or a different version, who knows but that's what got my attention.

@@Cpt_Adama I worked for Lockheed from 1969 to 1982, just before the German's sold all the aircraft to Taiwan. My last job was to take 'em apart and getting them ready to ship

Thanks! It could function well under right circumstances, that's for sure.

It is always the pilot that makes the difference.

It was a world beater when it was first introduced. It was the first production fighter capable of mach 2 in level flight, and boasted a rate of climb and acceleration that even by today's standards is quite incredible. It was THE energy fighter of the late 1950s.

The early attrition rate was sky high. It was a high speed missile platform that couldn't turn and landed at high speed. Many people died in this thing, also called "Widowmaker". There was a reason they just got rid of them and turned them into exports. The mods like bigger wings on the G made a real difference.

In the 1970s there was an Italian Air Force pilot who regularly killed far more manoeuvrable aircraft (like F-4s for example) in NATO exercises and was only once "bagged" by anyone, US, UK, German or any other nationality. He used fast passes and high speed escapes, steep climbs and very fast dives. Most pilots who fought him said they rarely saw him as he used the speed, rate of climb and dive advantages of the F-104 so well. He never tried to engage in a turning fight against anyone. I read about him in the 1980s before the interwebs existed but I have been trying to find out his name recently so I could look him up again. Sadly he seems lost to history. I guess because he never fought in a shooting war his performance was not considered important enough. Personally I think he ought to have some articles about him online as he was living proof that it is the pilot that wins a dogfight, not the plane. The article was in an RAF internal news publication which I was loaned by a pilot. No recollection of what it was called but it was somewhere between January 1980 and February 1982, so maybe someone who reads this could tell us what the RAF's own news publication was called back then.

The representation of combat is symbolic here but they were credited with two kills officially while being heavily outnumbered.

Representation of this battle is symbolic due to various limitations.

The Canadians were best at it.

@@spitfirenutspitfirenut4835 I was a maintenance officer with NATO 1 Air Division RCAF in Germany in the '60's, and we used CF-104's in a low level nuclear strike role. The small wings actually reduced the vulnerability to low level turbulence due to the high wing loading. I was lucky enough to get a ride in a two-seater on an actual training flight that took us as far north as Holland. Low level meant about 100 feet off the deck at about 450 knots. Now that is exciting. and scary. The bay for the canon was used for a specialized fuel tank. Designed as a high altitude interceptor it was really fast in a straight line, but had a very wide turning radius. It was likely that the kills were high speed passing shots, not classic dogfights. But who wants to see a high speed passing shot in a sim? And who wants to model it? Not very interesting. This was a very nice simulation of that historic encounter, and demonstrated the critical importance of pilot training, which the Nationalists were very good at thank to their US support. Thank you Spitfirenut for the shoutout for Canadians. We regularly placed first in the NATO bombing competitions when I was there, which Google "confirms". As was frequently said of us Canadian, we fight above our weight.

@@edwardmarshall5295 Yes..... And I know how good we were in bombing and recon meets. We were the best! Especially in dicey weather conditions. Sometimes we were the only ones able to find the range. And how about those CRV-7s? Practice ones would usually destroy the target just with kinetic energy. No warhead. In dissimilar air to air combat the 104 even shot down some eagles during a high speed straight on attack! They didn't know what hit them until it was over. Thanks for you're service and being one of the best. All this could not have been achieved without the best ground crew of any airforce on the planet..Nothing could and still today keep pace with a 104 on the deck..

@@spitfirenutspitfirenut4835 LOL. I didn't know that about finding the bombing range itself! Get competition points just by showing up! LOL. And thanks for your service too.

It certainly looks right!

Or used in an application for which it was not designed.

It wasn't easy to find kills for the F-104 :) I'm not sure how accurately it is simulated in DCS since it's a mod, but it seems it can only kill the enemy which happens to be in front of it. If it needs to maneuver, not gonna happen :)

@@showtime112 Am not sure if the F104 was designed for dogfight. Maybe it was designed as an (bomber) interceptor similar to the MiG 21?

@@bwlgyozafangs7587 It was designed to be a point defense interceptor so probably wasn't really designed for dogfights, even though it was equipped withy a 20mm cannon while other fighter aircraft from that time were not being equipped with guns at all, like the F-102 and F-106. It was said that the F-104 was meant to counter the Mig-21 and when the two aircraft went head to head in the India-Pakistan wars it generated a lot of excitement from the designers, but it didn't perform to well.

@@bwlgyozafangs7587 it would be used as an energy fighter. fight in the vertical

When the F-104 took-off RoCAF anthem should be used. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/etWai8-bvsuoqXU.html

I've heard many but not that one 😁

Mig 19 is a flying air intake with two.wings

With a cockpit on top of the J-79

Thanks for the comment. Yes, I thought that the song was probably well known from that period. It seemed to fit in just nicely.

It really represents that 'crudeness' of communism. Especially when you look at the title 😁

Thank you very much, glad you liked it!

Nothing like good old steam gauges 😁

same here . when I sit inside the cockpit in DCS I felt it was so real and it looked amazing.

@@yeyu999 do you use VR?

@@therocinante3443 : yes, indeed. It just looks so amazing in VR . Not many modules give me that perception in DCS.

@@yeyu999 agreed! There's something special about the 19

That was AI shooting, a human pilot would have fired a much longer burst 😁 Thanks for the comment!

Thank you for the congratulations. And I hope you will still enjoy watching my videos when I do reach the number you mentioned (he said modestly) 😁😁😁

The thudding sounds are from the MiG's autocannon! Much slower firerate but higher caliber!

@@TheKusa5 the MiG cannons have 1200rpm, just that DCS gun sounds are wacky

I actually tried to play with the F-104 and fight the MiGs guns only. Didn't work 😁

Not to cast any doubt on your story but I was unaware there were any Corsairs in Europe during WW2.

she may have confused the corsairs but Canada did fly some . She is correct about her father and the 104's @@jeepman1467

Thank you very much for the comment and subscription!

Glad you liked this one too! Be prepared for more stuff to come 😁

Pappa Bear Then, I believe that it will be interesting for you to learn about this legendary underground Soviet song: I'm running on scorched earth Slamming the helmet on the move. My Phantom with a white arrow, On a spread wing With a roar, it gains altitude. My Phantom with a white arrow, On a spread wing With a roar, it gains altitude. I can see the blueing distance, It's just a pity to violate this. Wish you could see her Our path is hard and far My Phantom is heading east. I make a left turn I'm an executioner now, not a pilot. I bend over the scope And the missiles rush to the target There is one more approach ahead. But I see a white devil in the sky, My Phantom is losing height. The catapult is salvation And the tension on the lines. Heart in your heels, I'm going into a tailspin. Just landed, at the same moment A wild cry came from the busts. Yellow-faced vietnamese They squeal in the winds like hares, I fell to the ground and fell silent. I'm walking on the cursed land again The helmet is not on the head. Behind the muzzle of machine guns Soldiers poke me in the back My life hangs in the balance. Who is the pilot that brought me down? I asked one Vietnamese. That slanting one answered me What commanded the interrogation: Our pilot LiSiTsin shot you down (i.e. Vyacheslav Lisitsyn - in fact, who fought in the air of Vietnam) It’s you Vietnamese lying in vain I clearly heard in the headset: "Kolya, press, and I'll cover!" Vanya, hit, and I'll cover! " Russian ace Ivan knocked me out. Somewhere in the distance, native Texas, Father and mother are waiting for me at home. My "phantom" exploded quickly in the blue and clear sky. I can’t see you anymore. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/rLWqmKRelsm8pX0.html

@@sudfac Thanks, this is interesting!

Thanks for the comment. I might do Hind someday but I should first learn how to fly choppers because now I kinda suck at it 😁

you could work a bit on your leads and shots though

Well, thanks for your comment! The nature of work on this channel really prevents me from being an expert on any model. I tend to vary a lot so my hours on each individual module are relatively low.

Thanks for the comment! I actually did a video on the event you mention. American pilot Capt Smith was captured by Chinese fishing boats and remained a prisoner until 1973.

You don’t sound like someone growing up in China. Why do you put quotation marks on victory if you grew up in China.

I'd buy it 😁

Thank you very much, keep watching!

Thanks for sharing your experience!

Thanks for the comment!

Ain't. It is the Republic of China.

@@bernardfong1019 Well, ROC is the official name of Taiwan

@@bernardfong1019 yes it is, commie. Long live a free Taiwan!!

@@joepapp01 Thanks for your support bro

That happened a little earlier but it's funny nevertheless :)

what do you mean

He means that in many of those cases, the situation hasn't changed much in decades. China and Taiwan, still tense. Israel and Syria, still at war. India and Pakistan, not friendly yet.

@@showtime112 oh I see I'm dumb sometimes lol thanks

I am happy to hear your positive comment, thank you and keep watching!

Thanks for the info. If anyone is in the neighborhood, you know where to go 😉

Exactly the point of it :)

@@showtime112 I grew up near an airbase that had Starfighters take off and land all day long. It's really nice to get an idea of what they were capable of. They are LOUD.

@@yvc9 I believe it. J79 is not exactly known for its subtility, both in visual and in auditive sense :)

Thanks for sharing! Did he say what was it exactly he preferred?

@@showtime112 it's maneuverability at supersonic speeds and roll rate .

@@Packard1947 Maneuverability of the F-104 isn't something you'd normally expect to hear as its advantage but perhaps we are all a bit biased there. Thanks for the info.

Well, you need to be a little different to make it. Thanks for appreciating it!

Thanks for the comment!

That's right, I've forgotten that.

It was not designed to be an interceptor it was designed as a frontline fighter at a time when they thought all dogfights would come down to how was higher and faster using boom and zoom. the air defense command had it as an interceptor for a short while as a stop gap and they could not get rid of it fast enough

@@BSUPERSABRE interception and air superiority are two entirely different roles. The F104 is perfect for destroying the nuclear bombers of it's day, which was it's entire job. Which is why the US wanted western Europe to have so many of them, thus allowing the US air force to defend its western and northern side while NATO defended it's eastern ones. However most of NATO lacked the ability to manufacture their own fighters or purchase modern ones from other nations, resulting in the starfighter being forced into rolls it was not suited for. Hence the accident rate.

@@Galdenberry_Lamphuck I am well aware of the difference between an interceptor and an air superiority fighter. The F-104 was an extremely poor interceptor, it could not shoot targets head on and did not have the ground control intercepting equipment that other planes had at the time.

Hi, @@Galdenberry_Lamphuck Sabre's right, initial design philosophy of the starfighter was high speed dogfighter with insane vertical performance. ADC opted for them due to unavailability of the F-106, they also quickly regretted their decision. F-104 was designed for one job and one job only - going up there and dealing with enemy fighters. That said, fighting with flaps down was not original design consideration, just something that was found out during service.

Yes, it would be interesting to read. Maybe some are available in Chinese but I couldn't find any in English.

Back in the late 70s I worked nights at a warehouse here in Canada. When we ordered Chinese takeout. Quite often the delivery guy was an ex Taiwanese F104 pilot. Got to talk to him lots about his flying days!!

We did have! But in Chinese only . Without the subtitle I'm not sure you will understand what they said XD

The combat represented here is mostly symbolic. The Mig-19 is a high-fidelity module and it is probably simulated well. But the F-104 is a simple mod with basic flight model (they did some improvements on it in the mean time). Plus, the AI isn't good enough to really adjust the fighting style to each model. Maybe someday we will have a really good F-104 so this can be redone.

Thanks for the comment! The two kills are officially confirmed. As for the F-104 that was lost, possible causes are many but most probable was that it was shot down. They were heavily outnumbered and Mig-19 is quite maneuverable.

It took 66 pilot's life in ROCAF

According to the RoC's account, their Starfighter did carry and used Sidewinders. chaoyisun.pixnet.net/blog/post/63122203

@@KanJonathan GOOD JOB!

@@jimhsia0201 In Germany it took over 100 Pilots down...

Thanks. The livery is actually not widely available. I improvised it by adapting it from USAF skin. It only has the roundel but no numbers so it's not good enough for a release.

@@showtime112 Got it.Thanks for reply👍🏻 I will try to make it myself in the same way.

Thanks for the comment. As for the question, I have to admit that I haven't found this detail anywhere. Here in DCS, AI pilots will just jettison tanks because that's what they do. But the F-104 really participated in only a few aerial engagements.

Hello Yes, you could jettison the tip tanks, saw a video of it being done some time ago, looks very impressive too. Tip tanks were mainly for strike airframes, for A/A you'd usually have tip missiles and pylon tanks. The missile pylons iirc acted to reinforce the wingtips while also acting as anti-flutter weights.

Thank you for your positive feedback!

Thanks! However, History Channel has little to do with history these days so it's not that hard to beat it 🤣

True! Many situations from the Cold War era are still just as intense as back then.

Pilots can be a strange breed 😁

I'd say from that generation, English Electric Lightning is quite weird too. Engines on top of each other, external fuel tank above the wings..... weird 😁

Actually, it's the guys from Razbam Simulations who have the credit for that. They built the MiG-19 module. All I did was select the Chinese cockpit option in the special options menu :) Thanks for commenting!

Thanks for commenting!

@@showtime112 you're welcome! I was 17 at the time just before military.

I guess a pilot who knows what he's doing can use his machine to defeat many 'better' opponents.

@@showtime112 Yup. Check out "Swede' Svetzla, WW2

@@Lhenry-pf5zn I couldn't find that name. Do you mean 'Swede' Vejtasa?

Its combat history is quite obscure compared to say F-4. But I really like revealing things like that. As for MiG-19, Chinese simply loved that thing and kept it for much longer than others. Thanks for the comment!

They were also used for CAS in Vietnam c. 1965-1967.

@@raynus1160 negative the MiG-19/ J-6 was used as a ground based radar controlled interceptor by the NVAF.

@@SolomonSamson747 I was referring to the F-104C.

I also believe that the F-104 has some air victories over the India/ Pakistan area.

Just like that 'beware falling rocks' sign. Not much you can do about it 😁

That's very similar to what Paco Chierici said about F-5 😁

It’s not a dogfighter. It’s an interceptor and that’s a good job for it

Haven't really tried it, I might test it to see. But it's just a mod so I would guess it isn't.

@@showtime112 From reading interviews and anecdotes by actual pilots it was not the turkey people seem to think www.combatsim.com/review.php?id=5

@@MrGreyZ a really interesting text there

Hopefully, it remains the last one. Currently, it looks like it might not be so.

F104 = flying coffin

Well, I was going for something like that 😁

Thanks for the comment! I really want to do the famous fight with the first use of Sidewinders. I was gonna use MiG-15s as stand ins but now those guys announced they were developing the MiG-17 so I lean towards waiting for it.

@@showtime112 ohhh, mig-17, good material for Vietnam history videos

@@gorka7824 Exactly! Looking forward to that one.

@@gorka7824 for Vietnam you need the phantom and crusader to be developed

I might do that. If we had Mirage III or Phantom as full modules, I would certainly do that.

This is actually called 'Chairman Mao is the red sun in the hearts of the people of all ethnic groups'. Chinese propaganda is incredibly subtle, don't you think? 😁😁😁

​@@showtime112 Its as outstanding as it is Ironic - I have always loved the way Chinese and North Korean News Casters always shout at you down the camera at you with regarding the latest news about Glorious Leader

What else do you need? 😁

Music? Yeah, I was going for a propaganda film from the Cultural Revolution period feel.

So, I guess you don't remember it very well? 😁 Thanks for commenting!

@@showtime112 Nope! Not at all LOL. But I do remember watching the news about Vietnam 70 and 71. I remember watching moon landings too. Keep up the good content showtime. YOU ROCK mang!!!

This video is a very loose interpretation of the combat. I hope to do a better one someday when we get a proper F-104 in DCS.

@@showtime112I think that the Taiwanese also killed over 10 Chinese MiG-17 jets with their older F-86. If DCS has both of those, you should consider that! I’m very interested in Taiwan and Chinese battles

It certainly would be. Exact details of fight are not available, this is just a DCS representation.

@@showtime112 Actually the rate of turn could be very deceptive when flown by an experienced pilot such as my father. Many an opponent met their fate with him. In all the war games conducted by NATO with 104s in Europe none were shot down nor intercepted.

@@Lhenry-pf5zn It is true that reality is a lot more complex than any theory or simulation. Sparrow missile performance in Vietnam comes to mind.

@@Lhenry-pf5zn would your father be the "legendary" Clifford John (Hank) Henry of the RCAF?

until the afterburner was lit then the Mig could never stay with the 104

Thanks for commenting! Which kill specifically do you mean?

This is not really a Chinese runway. It's the Caucasus map.

Well, it really can't. It has some advantages in climb and acceleration but it's hard to simulate in DCS with AI controlling them.

As others have said, it's not that the 104 could out fly a Mig-19 on the Mig-19's terms. It's more about the pilots of each plane maximizing their aircraft's strengths, while not allowing their plane's weaknesses to give their opponent an advantage.

@@tempest411 Exactly!

The reason is explained in the video.

@@showtime112 ok, I was watching it at work and had the volume turned down. I'll have to watch it again.

@@alexandermakrianis That's two views and two comnents from you. You are really helping this video 😊😊

@@showtime112 glad that I can help.

I just watched your video again and listened to the explanation as to why there's no missiles. I like the music at the beginning too. I'm looking forward to watching more of your videos as time permits.

As groundcrew? Sounds interesting.

I thought it really set the atmosphere right 😁

Thank you!

Thank you for your comment, glad you liked it!

Canada seems to be bout the right size country for such an airplane. Just about enough space for a turn :)

Let's hope it stays the last one.

@@showtime112 Okay,I got it,and after this combat,one F-104 crashed when it RTB,pilot MIA.

Thanks, I thought it fit here perfectly.

People just seem to love defining the F-104 like that. Maybe we should have a competition for the best one 😂

a rocket does not use a jet engine so no

There was Sabre vs MiG-17 where Chinese aircraft had superior performance. But the missile factor decided it. Other than that, was there much more real fighting?

@@showtime112 I think there were a couple that involved F-84G on the ROCAF side.

Thank you for the comment! I thought it was quite suitable.

7 or 8Gs may have been possible with the Mach tuck that 104s were famous for. Gonna nit pick a little here. P-38 had rounded wing tops so technically not a trapezoid. Incidentally the Constellation airliner used same wing platform as P-38.

@@patrickgriffitt6551 his wings never evolved. The leading and trailing edges were often almost symmetrical. Often even for tail planes and stabilizers.

The maneuvers probably didn't go as high as 8G. But the entire combat is just symbolic due to certain limitations.

@@fieldlab4 trapezoid wings are very common... U-2's wings are swept back a couple degrees at the 25% line, F-104 had like, 18° sweep? And there are obviously other, more nuanced, differences between the designs.

More wing area would probably require a radical redesign of the whole aircraft. Hard to tell if it would have been worth it.

Lockheed proposed exactly that with the Lockheed Lancer: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_CL-1200_Lancer

@@tomtest891 Interesting, I think I might have heard about that before.

Well, that's kind of what the G model was.

@@fieldlab4 not really, the G model did not have a bigger wing, and the engine was not much more powerful than the F-104C. What the G had was much more advanced avionics. It was an attack plane now, no longer a short range interceptor.

I heard someone say that the guys who did this mod are planning to do a high-fidelity version but I couldn't find any details or confirmations. I know I'd buy it.

Hvala na čestitkama! Daleko je to još od vodećih kanala ali tko zna.... 😁