Klingon medical textbook: whenever in doubt, disembowel your patient with your d'k tahg to ensure they have an honourable death.

horaciosi it’s almost like they’re the same person!

@@philbertchow5425 Almost 🤣

🤣 good one

They ARE the same person!

😂

Pretty sure Robert Picardo has a lot of fun doing any episode where there's more Robert Picardo in it. ;) It's an actor thing.

I loved his guest appearance on The Orville, with so many other former ST actors.

@@mangaranwow2543 - the Orville is bee jelly to the saddened CBS Trek soul :)

Most Likely,

I've met him a couple times actually, the first in 1999 and the second in 2007. And I bet he certainly did cuz from what I've heard him say during his presentations at the shows I've attended, he had a grand time developing the character over the course. It was a very rewarding time for him creatively and professionally.

True, but the two men are in close proximity to each other. She might be momentarily questioning her own perceptions and just wanted to make sure.

@@Frankie2012channel no, she's had scenes before when someone's thought something offensive and she's turned to look directly at them. It's a plot hole this episode.

@@sarcasticstartrek7719 She was most likely just being polite to the both of them and trying to make them feel at ease.

She initially thought they were "opposite sides" personalities and so intended to initiate conversation by saying they're so similar "that I can't tell the difference". Like when you're trying to resolve conflicts between kids and try to be the least personal as possible to put them on a common ground.

@@sarcasticstartrek7719 same with 'Tin Man'. Counselor Troi's former patient didn't even notice Data til he spoke up.

Yes but she is an empath. She senses their emotions.

@@stephenhowe4107 Not the Doctor's. But I guess she can sense jerkness even in holograms.

When star Trek does this I always get carried away with the ciene I never feel like I'm watching two actors play the same role like I get in a lot of old TV shows and films.

​@@stephenhowe4107 blamthe writer's they never could get it right depending on the plot

Skills? The most terrible tactics you would use on a two year old. Then she gives up & has an outburst. She comes across as the worst counselor in history here

Guinan was better

@@christophermcmanus5103 Guess again. She knows her audience and knows what will work on them.

@@christophermcmanus5103 She actually started off quite well. But then she does give up pretty easily after her first attempt doesn't work out. At the end of the day though, it's a TV show that's telling a story. And this is one part of a larger story, not the story itself. They simply don't have time to show her making multiple good attempts that these stubborn men don't respond to. So, in the end, I think @MrRubiksCube657 makes a valid point when you look at her first attempt to reconcile them. I don't remember them allowing her to display that level of skills in TNG or really much of ANY level for that matter.

Around this time Marina Sirtis stopped playing Deanna Troi and started playing herself.

She's observant, one MUST give her THAT much!

"Klingon's make great warriors, but terrible doctors." - General Martok

Oh My!

"His femoral nerve is severed. I prescribe one honor killing, to be administered immediately.........AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAUUUGUGGHGUUUGGAAAUUUURRRGGHHH!!!!!!!!"

"A Fleshwound? Don't worry, I can cut it out!"

Don Gilleo lol, that was my first thought!

I don't remember Troi ever once being a successful counselor. Everyone on the Enterprise went to Guinan.

She actually tried reverse psychology with both

Same old Troi

“Oh I give up, there’s no convincing you.”

lol - Only Marina Sirtis had the aussie accent. It is marinas true accents. She was half greek or something I think

Russian in that one episode of Stargate

Accents change a lot

She sounds like a Brummie in real life. The general Englishness was poking through constantly in this video. Very jarring.

Her accent is stuck on a Trans-Atlantic flight.

No, she still kinda sucks. At least the women in all subsequent Treks were competent.

@@mmjahink problem is trek writers aren't trained tharpists so they dont know what there talking about

@@matthewjones2095 Good point, if only scriptwriters had it in mind to do some research...

@@mmjahink remeber that stuff was harder in the 90s

@@matthewjones2095 Researching? Dude, have you ever heard of libraries?

UTubeTulip Yes, I love good crossovers. Trek didn't always get this right but the Voyager crossovers were all really good.

Tom Paris had a full episode in tng (under a different identity). Janeway was in at least one of the films.

Bob (Robert) McNeil guest starred on TNG as Nick Locarno... the dude that got Wesley in trouble. Janeway was in exactly one TNG film (ST: Nemesis). .............. and Harry Kim was still a lowly Ensign even after the events of Nemesis. hahaha!

The EMH was in First Contact. Ethan Phillips was in the same holodeck scene but not as Neelix.

@@rkmugen kind of the point he was making. Yes the actors appeared but with the exception of Janeway and Now 7 in Picard none of the characters have really appeared outside of Voyager.

Scotty: I don't know what this will do to you, but it's green. Me: Sounds good to me.

Remember when Scotty walked around the Enterprise D and caused problems?

I'll take scottys help anyday, at the very least you'd have fun, even if he couldn't help your ailment.

@Dickum N Lickum the V: Emperor Of KZfaq. I don't know. They had holography even in Scotty's prime and thus the 23rd century. True, by the 24th it had become a lot more sophisticated but should still work on the same basic principles. It wouldn't take him long to figure out the nuances.

He didn't know how to repair or even service the Enterprise when he was working with Geordi La Forge

It is in these moments I like to remind people that when anyone needed guidance on the Enterprise, they went to Guinan.

​@@SukatoKjolen I want to like Deanna (the character; I think Marina did the best she could with the scripts she was given), but I think the one thing she had as a counsellor was her abilities as a half-Betazoid... to detect the emotions and feelings people often keep bottled up, even from themselves. Which, if we are being honest, is probably a great shortcut to solving MANY (inter-)personal problems. But if the person who needed counselling was either already fully cognizant of their mental state, was unable to be read by her (Ferengi, most artificial life forms), and/or was sufficiently stubborn... she was only slightly better than average at her job. Whereas Guinan has spent hundreds of years studying people; often as a bartender - where people often go to unwind, vent, or drown their sorrows. People went to Troy to have her solve their problems. They went to Guinan for a nudge in the right direction.

This is just the first session. They don't all start out auspiciouscly.

Dianna relies on her ability to sense emotions. She can't sense the Doctors emotions so it is harder for her.

So don't *_poke_* go *_poke_* criticizing *_poke_* her *_poke_* counseling *_poke_* technique! *_poke_*

by that point the doctor had emotions and expressed them strongly so they were causing interference and likely throwing her off

Or she could be joking.

chrismc410 “Are ye mad, Doctor? It will take me whole team two weeks just tae find yer mobile emitter!”

Nah

aperson22222 “you have one week”

+chrismc410 Have you seen Relics?

Well Scotty is still kicking in the 24th Century after the TNG episode Relics...

But not looked upon for their modernity or functionality.

@@TheBlarggle vinyl record technology is over 100 years old but it still exists in some form in the 21st century.

The Holodoc can be preserved on deck 6.

Technology changed more rapidly. No physicist in the 1900's would trust someone from the 1800's. With Einstein's theory of relativity that isn't the case, it's the bedrock. Eventually though their will be another incredibly large gap. Maybe 2100's compared to 2000's.

Except Ezri, regardless of holding eight lifetimes of experience, is still a kid. Zimmerman and the EMH would just scare her away before her first minute was up.

@@multificionado5019 plus Ezri was technically a counseling in training when she ended up on Ds9.

@@multificionado5019 jep still remember her first run in with Garak. It didnt go too well...

@@Daniel-rd6st Also remember though the she was the only counselor to actually take her job seriously and that Garak made a living for who knows how long by manipulating others better than anyone else. And, by the end of the episode she still managed to sort it out. Also, that was right after she got implanted with 8 lifetimes of experience and could barely remember her own name, much less have the mental stability to cure a half-mad raging ex-spy that at that moment despised everyone not from Cardassia, who also has more emotional luggage than everyone else on the station combined and had his homeworld overtaken and in jeopardy... Interactions with Garak should never be the bar one sets when examining a counselor's performance

@@floppydisksareop Even so, she did fine and even grew considerably thanks to him. Another season or 2 with her would've really helped cement that.

it is the brain.

Anything with Reg in too.

Women are innately obsessed with c̲h̲o̲c̲o̲l̲a̲t̲e̲ men, c̲h̲o̲c̲o̲l̲a̲t̲e̲ milk, c̲h̲o̲c̲o̲l̲a̲t̲e̲ cereal, c̲h̲o̲c̲o̲l̲a̲t̲e̲ syrup, c̲h̲o̲c̲o̲l̲a̲t̲e̲ candy, c̲h̲o̲c̲o̲l̲a̲t̲e̲ cake, c̲h̲o̲c̲o̲l̲a̲t̲e̲ cookies c̲h̲o̲c̲o̲l̲a̲t̲e̲ ice cream, c̲h̲o̲c̲o̲l̲a̲t̲e̲ cloths, c̲h̲o̲c̲o̲l̲a̲t̲e̲ hats, c̲h̲o̲c̲o̲l̲a̲t̲e̲ shoes, c̲h̲o̲c̲o̲l̲a̲t̲e̲ underwear etc, for example *Troi* is innately obsessed with c̲h̲o̲c̲o̲l̲a̲t̲e̲ men, c̲h̲o̲c̲o̲l̲a̲t̲e̲ milk, c̲h̲o̲c̲o̲l̲a̲t̲e̲ cereal, c̲h̲o̲c̲o̲l̲a̲t̲e̲ syrup, c̲h̲o̲c̲o̲l̲a̲t̲e̲ candy, c̲h̲o̲c̲o̲l̲a̲t̲e̲ cake, c̲h̲o̲c̲o̲l̲a̲t̲e̲ cookies c̲h̲o̲c̲o̲l̲a̲t̲e̲ ice cream, etc.

Tomy Kuf wonderful boobies

In real life she is an insane feminist harpie

She's grown progressively better since her first days on TNG.

I like her too. She went from being a slightly distant and exotic princess type to being someone who might actually be quite fun. I thought it was unfortunate that the lack of interpersonal conflict meant that the role of counsellor came off as superfluous quite a bit of the time

Tim Russ was also the bad guy with welding torch in Starship Mine...

Both the TNG and V character left Starfleet under a cloud. I love how it's the same actor. What made me laugh out loud was the Lizard's line at the end. V was at it's best 4 onwards.

Well she did crash the Enterprise-D (hadn't crashed the E yet at this point), bound to knock one's confidence... :P

To be fair, having these two in the same room would make things a lot more complicated for anyone

She was only considered the best due to plot armor

Zylbad hey, be nice

"Sorry, I'm still stuck on Tasha."

"I haven't sensed any emotions from you." "I know. You would have said something vapid and predictable if you had."

"No no, _that's just the six years of Kolinahr paying off"_

Her acting wasn't anything especial.

Because TNG was misogynistic. Troi was defined by being overwhelmed by emotion. Yar was defined by running from "rape gangs." Crusher was defined by motherhood.

Women are innately obsessed with c̲h̲o̲c̲o̲l̲a̲t̲e̲ men, c̲h̲o̲c̲o̲l̲a̲t̲e̲ milk, c̲h̲o̲c̲o̲l̲a̲t̲e̲ cereal, c̲h̲o̲c̲o̲l̲a̲t̲e̲ syrup, c̲h̲o̲c̲o̲l̲a̲t̲e̲ candy, c̲h̲o̲c̲o̲l̲a̲t̲e̲ cake, c̲h̲o̲c̲o̲l̲a̲t̲e̲ cookies c̲h̲o̲c̲o̲l̲a̲t̲e̲ ice cream, c̲h̲o̲c̲o̲l̲a̲t̲e̲ cloths, c̲h̲o̲c̲o̲l̲a̲t̲e̲ hats, c̲h̲o̲c̲o̲l̲a̲t̲e̲ shoes, c̲h̲o̲c̲o̲l̲a̲t̲e̲ underwear etc, for example *Troi* is innately obsessed with c̲h̲o̲c̲o̲l̲a̲t̲e̲ men, c̲h̲o̲c̲o̲l̲a̲t̲e̲ milk, c̲h̲o̲c̲o̲l̲a̲t̲e̲ cereal, c̲h̲o̲c̲o̲l̲a̲t̲e̲ syrup, c̲h̲o̲c̲o̲l̲a̲t̲e̲ candy, c̲h̲o̲c̲o̲l̲a̲t̲e̲ cake, c̲h̲o̲c̲o̲l̲a̲t̲e̲ cookies c̲h̲o̲c̲o̲l̲a̲t̲e̲ ice cream, etc.

.................................. there's lemon shrimp, pepper shrimp.... (5 days later)...... shrimp and potatoes, shrimp stew, shrimp salad, shrimp burger, shrimp sandwich..... that.... that's about it.

@@rkmugen wtf r u on about

I would have preferred to see an episode of her attending a Betazoid Wedding, she would have looked a lot fitter then!

It's all those leotard stretches with Dr. Crusher.

Definitely not Psychoanalysis; more like Rational Emotive Therapy.

to be fair hes older then 7 years

I'm sure there a lot more people who would have a lot more faith in Nikola Tesla than engineering school grad, despite the fact the grad has more knowledge about how the current world works. Telsa had ingenuity while the grad has the knowledge people like Tesla discovered, chances are high if Tesla were to be exposed to technology from today, he would learn it's workings rapidly and quickly begin to expand upon it. Not sure if that's the greatest comparison, but I think it get's my point across that age has no bearing on intelligence, at least within the time-span of recorded history, and only the knowledge we have discovered within that time frame.

*miracle worker from 83 years ago The Jenolan was found in 2369 after 75 years with Scotty on board (in stasis via transporter), and this episode apparently takes place in 2377 or 8 years later from the events of the episode Relics, give or take a few months.

Especially as the doctor has years of experience in the delta quadrant, being exposed to new cultures and technologies plus how long does it take him to download the latest information, one or two seconds?

Definitely the emh sounds like an unloved son in this scene ;)

PFFFFFF yeah XD good comment

TRUE

Deanna was being polite.

Two answers: 1. they were too close together. Her sensing ability could not different from wich one the emotions came. 2. She knew. She just wanted to see their reaction to get a read on the Situation. She is a professional so she propably knew how Dr. Zimmerman looked. And if nothing else, the older guy in a Bathrobe is propably not the EMH Mk1.

Christopher, i don't buy those explains. On TNG she could single each person emotions, even on a room full of ppl close to each other.. Also emotions of single ppl of a diferent ship (like a commander is hiding something). All that not to mention that she is a counselur... her job and studies are to single out emotions to help ppl

+1300l: So you are just making point 2 more likely.

BUT it would be a sign of the grossest incompetence coming from a real professional counselor. That Troi traveled light years for this session, and then completely lost her self-control in just a few minutes, is beyond appalling. As much as I adore Sirtis, and considered it a great privilege just to be able to gaze upon her again when this episode first aired, I was completely disappointed with the writers for allowing that huge a gaffe in her character.

Now, what would have let her use that line while keeping in character as a real counselor would have been if she came to a point where she said "excuse me, please," left the room, and as soon as the doors were closed exclaimed "those guys are both jerks!"

@@timothytikker3834 Get over yourself

@@timothytikker3834 Get over yourself

No. Hands down, and I wager if you asked any actor in Trek's history, Andrew Robinson who played Garak in DS9 is probably the best 'actor' across all of Trek. That man ran a marathon of acting compared to any other cast member in Trek. Specifically in Voyager, yeah Picardo was pretty damn good. I'd say third place would have to be René Auberjonois as Odo.

@@IdgaradLyracant Please. Garak is a cartoon. You just really like a really bad Trek show.

Pity it cannot be more chatty

"Jerks." If only someone followed-up with this line: "I couldn't agree more."

holo lizard that repeats words like a parrot

@@jgood005 Even better point! :)

Jerks

Yeah, her accent was all over the place. She was definitely out of practice at this point.

As far as I'm aware her abilities don't extend to mind reading.

Being an empath does not mean mind reading, just sensing emotions.

you know what, you just read my mind , Muahahahahahah terrible jokes for the win

She can read minds, but barely. An example was shown in Nemesis where she was able to telepathically locate the enemies ship by reading one of their minds.

The Viceroy in Nemesis was actually the one who had established a long range telepathic link with her. She simply traced it back to him. She is capable of telepathy with other Betazoids, and with people she is especially close to such as Riker. But her half human heritage diminished her total Betazoid abilities.

"Jerks"

she outsmarted the system...no uniform, no orders!!! She just went along for the ride!!!

It was deliberate! Made them stop and think for a second

@@FullCircleStories Once again, I'm pretty sure that's not standard practice for a competent professional. It seems a lot more likely that Troi is just a shitty psychiatrist and/or counselor...

Therapist are usually the most screwed up one in a room full of crazies.

even though she has advanced psychology qualifications, her position is as a counselor and counselors do not act the same way as psychologists. counselors listen while patients talk out their problems. and here she is a diplomatic liason when she marries riker and joins him in his new ship. So she is a diplomatic liason in this scene. Diana is just very human, and gets frustrated, that's all. Her empathetic abilities and part telepathic were extremely useful through all of the TNG.

Robert The key personnel rarely if ever submitted themselves to her care.

Tuvok was also on TNG. Season 6 episode. In Generations and TNG he wasn't Tuvok but just human characters. Paris actor was in TNG and that's the character Voyager originally wanted but due to legal issues they couldn't use that character so they created Tom Paris. Same actor though.

Sometimes you need tough love.

it been long establish writer have no idea how councilor actually work. or even how a semi military ship work. I say semi cause some writer keep saying that star fleet isn't a military organization. they just so happen to have ranks, promotions and weapons

@@Marveryn It's more of a blend of Military and Civil organizations. So while it's not so rigid, they do take basic military style training into account.

By calling them both jerks she gives them common cause.

The simple answer is that she's probably just a bad psychiatrist. The handful of episodes where we got to see her working showed she had some very...questionable methodology when it came to her work as a therapist

@@Robert-hz9bj And she probably soon realises that at 3:34.