Worth mentioning that Stadler FLIRTs don't have to be low floor. The UK has 1000mm high platform FLIRTs which are also dual power so they can run on both electrified and non-electrified trackage. The Stadler FLIRT is highly customisable and flexible so you have different combinations of high and low floor, electric, diesel or both, high and low density door configurations, etc. And if there isn't enough capacity, just get some Stadler KISS trains like Caltrain.

For those who don’t know there are high floor variants of the FLIRTs in the UK I 100% agree on electrification; project #1 should be the rest of the Coast Line to Bay Head, as well as through running. I will say I do think the dual mode high floor version of the FLIRT should Be used on the Atlantic City Line; the diesel exhaust is terrible at 30th street.

I think they should be used on the Atlantic City line and restore service to Mount Holly and Cape May , the Gladstone branch should use electric flirts you would need to high level platform that line.

As others have stated Stadler does make high floor FLIRTs (or KISS trains for that matter) so modifying station to accommodate them is a non issue. I do agree that full electrification of rail lines should be a priority. Otherwise, other than the NEC I would think using FLIRTs (especially the FLIRT 200s) on the reactivated Lackawanna Cutoff line would be interesting.

As an European it's a no brainer: get flirts and electrify everything

Definitely would be appropriate for the LONG-delayed Camden-Glassboro line in S Jersey. They could terminate in Camden like the RiverLine does (it uses older Stadler DMUs) or if dual-mode, could perhaps even run into Phila over PATCO tracks.

There are miltiple things to consider; - Flirts can be high-floor, defeating the concern Bergenist had. - Flirts can come in EMU, Diesel-electric, Bi-mode, TRI-mode, Battery electric with overhead charging or even Hydrogen. - There is no big need to build new and/or change current infrastructure to accommodate Flirt units when they're configured for the right job at the right place, especially with how flexible the units are to customize. TLDR; Flirts are a huge win to be implemented in the NJ Transit system with the incredible amount of customization and flexibility.

They'd work on a few lines, besides Pascack Valley, the Montclair-Boonton, RVL, ACL. The platform height issue would need to be resolved possibly with multiple doors servicing different platform heights like the Bi-levels. Use the high floor variant used in the UK with a separate set of doors for low platforms. They'd help reduce the trip times with better acceleration. It would really benefit the M-B line a lot.

Stadler has a really flexible business model, they will literally build what ever you order from them. Heck, they even build narrow gauge trains and rack railways. So anything you need, they can and will build it 😂

Honestly I’m completely chill about commuter rails having these. I have family in Slovenia, and I believe I might have rode these trainsets

Remember there aren't only high floor FLIRTs in the UK, FSR Polish PKP Intercity got high floor FLIRTs with a ridiculous amount of steps you need to climb to board

No, simply because NJ Transit has already invested in ALP45 and ALP46 fleets while considering the Multilevel IIIs.

Well, personally, I think your arguments are crap. Stadler is known for customization or straight up bespoke designs for one. And secondly, the UK has a bunch of high level FLIRT units currently running as DMU, EMU and BiMode units. While Norway recently received tri-mode FLIRT200 models for sleeper trains. The floor height is more a feature of Europe basically having standardized on 55cm platforms with the exception of Germany, which uses EVERY height. As for 3rd rail, there’s simply almost no 3rd rail networks where you would want to run a FLIRT, but there are multi voltage FLIRTs out there running on 1500DC among other voltages, and Stadler has metro trains running 3rd rail, sometimes even with a pantograph. Thus, I‘m fairly certain that Stadler would happily sell high floor FLIRTs as a tri or even quad mode diesel, overhead, 3rd rail and maybe even battery. Interoperable on NJT, LIRR and MetroNorth

I agree with your friend, I say no, too!!

An easy fix for your friends concerns are the Stadler class 745 /755 in the uk. The uk only has high floor train platforms for its commuter services. But the stadler flirsts are level flooring even for those platforms so its a win win. . Its actually easier for stadler to design high floor units as they are very uniform . Most train companies now are expected to make variable trains anyway. .to make it even easier , a uniform 20 meter carriage with 2 bogies oer car set up is an easy format for stadler to design. As that formation is similat to UK and USA train models. Also, the power output would make you hit speeds very quickly. 100-125mph.(161-200kmh) between 30mile to 50mile or 100mile distances , you name it. Flirts have HIGH power output trains. Its a VERY feasible solution if you ask me. Even CAF, have civity fleet with high and low flooring, so do seimens , alstom europe etc. Not an issue for Stadler to do all models if need be.

The Uk has high floor Flirts the Class745 EMu's

Could’ve mentioned Bi-Modes cuz STADLER also makes Bi-Mode FLIRTS, so like they should get STADLER FLIRTS but include Bi-Mode Sets for Lines like the North Jersey Coast Line or the Montclair-Booton Line

Just logical that all the commuter rail networks in the NY, NJ, CT area use common equipment. In the future, when common sense finally takes over from the current fiefdoms used by the different transit agencies, the entire tri-state area will benefit from common equipment that can travel between the different transit agencies.

They can make Flirts and Kisses with high-ground level doors and battery as well… If you look at Caltrain Kisses, they both have low-ground and high-ground level doors. Is possible to set doors in Stadler trains at different levels at the same time for future changes, like door plugs for airplanes.

High floor Flirt is a thing FWIW \m/

The flirts operated by greater anglia would be a great base for the NJ but with the lower floor modifications for some of the smaller points and also being bi mode.

Flirts do come in a high floor variant. Greater Anglia runs Class 745 and 755 sets between London Liverpool Street and Essex/East Anglia. They share tracks with the Class 378 Overground trains you showed at 3:06 . Sure, electrification is a good thing, you should do that as well, but my guess is that by the time you finish it, the Firts are going to be close to the end of their 40-year life. Also, you can replace the diesel power unit on them with an electic one should it be done sooner.

If NJ Transit purchased Stadler FLIRTs, they would most likely be allocated to River Line, since it only allows low-level platform boarding.

The flirts are good for branch or feeder lines to connect to the main rail line. Also would be a good replacement for the river line train sets which are built extremely similar to the current flirts.

Both of you make really great points. I think im with bergrnist on this one. While yes I would like to see new trains. It is a better idea to electrify the train lines.

I find it funny that the DB Br 425 is mentioned as a option even though they are from 1999 and no longer produced. To be fair FLIRT can be higher entrances too we have 550mm and 760mm versions. There are also higher units like some s-bahn trains 430 as an example at 900mm. You could also go for stuff like Mireo from siemens which as the flirt have varients of all sorts.

its an interesting debate thats for sure- Caltrains KISS sets have doors at both heights, and seeing how Stadler is well known for its bespoke models based on modular platforms like FLIRT that could also be an option for this line. Ottawas O train is using the diesel FLIRTS on its like 2 for a similar style of service as the NJ line. I do agree about the compatibility thing though, I think North America needs to pick a standard overhead and platform gauge and stick to it but it would be massively costly due to the compatibility with passing freight trains. Tbh either a FLIRT with 2 door heights or a full conversion of the line to high floor would suffice in my opinion, ultimately cost and long term goals would dictate which option IMO. If the region is aiming to standardize its fleets and platforms etc then by all means go nuts with high floor but from an outsiders perspective it does not seem like the state gov is overly invested in reinventing the network and modernizing it the same way Ontario/Metrolinx is with the GO network (unfortunately, though GO is being massively modernized, we are in a contract with Alstom that will likely see electric locos deployed before EMUs since we have such a massive fleet of Bi Level coaches we just rebuilt).

NJT won’t make any decision that would remotely make sense. It would go against their beliefs!

FLIRTS are great. UK uses high floor versions (used on GreaterAnglia and TfW) and some of the British Variants are Bi-Mode or Tri-Mode so they can switch between Diesel, battery and electric (but I image a dual voltage mode could be made

Like others said the FLIRTS are highly customizable. They can be configured to be high floor.

YES! Especially the northeast corridor (sort of like what Caltrain now has)

The only standard that is more important than platform height is rail gauge. All new rail cars for the New York metro area need to be able to accommodate the standard American platform height. Your other debate points are all worthy of consideration, but I think that building non standard platforms to accommodate rolling stock does not make economic sense. The goal of “run-through” service is a worthy test for any new train design or any new railway construction. Good analysis!

I love your music choice. It's like you've hand-picked them from my favorites playlists

Most of the FLIRTs in Europe are electric. It would be great if NJT electrifies the River Line and imports some FLIRT trains from whatever country has a surplus and/or is retiring them. This way they wouldn't have to make many modifications to the platforms, if any.

The problem with more service on the Pascack Valley Line is not the equipment - it's the lack of enough passing sidings. Some of the folks in the norther part of New Jersey NIMBY'd an additional siding out of existence between Emerson and Oradell. That would have allowed reverse trains during rush hour and hence more service.

The flirt is like the m4 sherman of trains. Lots of variants, lots of countries have em.

FLIRTS would probably make the most sense on the Princeton Dinky to start, then perhaps see how they were elsewhere on the system.

Would be cool to see them, but I don't think it will ever happen. Also, I don't think it will fit with NJT's needs. Maybe for new branch lines or something.

Half of Bergenists Debate wasnt even about the flirts and more about electrification. Although I dont think NJT should Get Flirts but they should indeed electrify the rest of the hoboken division

Absolutely needed although there is another version of it that isn't covered ETR813/810 Class 755🇬🇧. They are dual mode the ideal solution is what Caltrain did Two doors one for the high-level platforms think of Newark Penn Station New Brunswick Somerville Plainfield Roselle Park Secaucus Junction. The second door low platforms Gladstone Raritan Bridge water.

well you guys can not import direct from Europe (buy American Act). Stadler and Siemens produce in the US but only Stadler builds modern european EMU there - Flirt

dont think the lord himself could save NJT but great points on both sides

Is there not a high floor version of the FLIRT? I would agree there is zero reason to commit to low floor trains when what should be happening is converting the low floor stations found mostly on the Hoboken division to be high floor.

They would be great for the Raritan Line west of Raritan

FLIRTs could be high floor and can be battery or electric...

I’m not for the Stadler Flirts because of the upcoming Multilevel III EMUs which might ultimately lead to plans for more electrifications

Do you think the River line should be electric or stay diesel

If only newark nj could get these trains to replace the older electric cars from 2002

Your friend is smart. Listen to him.

I would also argue that buying Diesel FLIRTs is it a bad idea at the moment. They can be conveted/rebuilt from Diesel to Overhead or 3rd rail electric at a later time. As for the platform issue, that's a much wider issue that needs to be addressed as a separate issue. Unfortunately, the NY Governor has made things more expensive by cancelling congestion pricing, which the money from that would have kept NJ transit's bank account afloat amid costly station and bridge/tunnel projects on the NEC.

Better yet, NJT could order some of the new battery-electric or hydrogen fuel cell FLIRTs! This would save NJT the cost of diesel fuel AND electrification.

Stadler FLIRTs would look pretty cool on the Northeast Corridor. Also, is it possible for FLIRTs to be third rail-powered? If so, then maybe the Metro-North and/or Long Island railroads could get some as well.

Flirts are for foamers and as mentioned, are not compatibles with existing trains in the NYC area, and don’t allow for level. Hoarding.

Hello, I'm from Slovenia. Slovenian railways recently bought 25 diesel flirts, 25 flirts 4 and 10 kiss-es. To be honest these trains are verry bad from a passanger view, the doors allways broke, bad qouality seats that are also not comfortable, there is also loud and squiky sound when train is going into the turn. And design of cabin is simplu bad, the PZB switches are that far away that a train driver almost must stand to press it.

Stadler, Siemens, Alstom, Hitachi all have manufacturing in the US ... time for some healthy competition

Nice video. It would be interesting to see Stadler FLIRTS on NJ Transit.

as someone, who lives in a City, where Flirt EMUs are being used as S-Bahn and RegioTrains, the FLIRTs are fukcing awesome, very comfortable and the best thing the US gets on their tracks right now!!!

I 'm not even a minute at time of typing so this isn't about the video. Can I get a source on Caltrain FLIRT acquisition? I thought they were just going with KISS for electrified sections and legacy F59s for the non electric portions to Gliroy.

I don’t think this would help NJT they already are spending so much money and time on the new nec bridge that new trains are there last thing to worry about as the trains they have are good enough

The against argument is VERY STRONG 😅

PVL should elevate the line and link to the PATH network

Yo (also Caltrain has KISSes, not FLIRTs)

NJ Transit & LIRR

Acually the ones on bart on are called stadler gtws🤓

European here the FLIRT is a 20 year old design that absolutely sucks. I try to avoid Stadler vehicles if possible because almost all other trains are better. The US has really good vehicles most of them are in my opinion actually better than the trains in Europe. The problem is more with the service and frequency. NJT should get something like the M8 trains to replace the arrows and put up wires for them on other lines. Because a Flirt wouldn’t make NJT a bit better it would only make it worse.

Yes, but the Caltrain variant.

High boarding platforms suck.

Nope, not all.

we need those on the MBTA

America needs lighter locomotives and more electrification. And using the Bombardier bilevel cars for regional transit. NJTransit already has a derivate of a German Bombardier EMU locomotive. I have a strong opinion for being an outsider, I traveled with a couple of US and Canadian trains already and seen how slow they are and how fast the German ICE and other slower trains picks up speed, there should be more done. I vote yes: Stadler Flirts belong into NJ Transit's Fleet.

i dont like your opinion 2:46

NJT should have them. I'm all for modernization!

bergenist opinion is stupid 3:31

Standardize. Electric.

That blue arriva train filmed by trainsby m isnt a flirt its a wink the wink is a Bmu so it runs on overhead power and diesel

Very valid arguments. Electrification costs over 1.2 million per mile. NJ Transit stations are a mix of low level, some with mini highs, and some high level platforms spaced in between. Rail equipment that can handle both types of platforms are needed. Of the 43 years I worked as a conductor, 26 years were with NJ Transit. It would be nice if all the stations were high platform but conversion costs a lot of money and certain stations on the M&E are listed as historical. It's nice that you make videos such as this but since neither of you worked in commuter rail service you don't understand the operating aspect.😎🚂🚃🚃🚃✝