I can't believe that after being told before the event, at the event, and after the event they haven't banned him.

@7:00 - Please banned him, look at his communication in your own Frontline Gaming Community group. Multiple people spoke with Judges, and not a single Yellow Card was issued. The dude straight up told me to "F#$% Off", when I told him he played the rule wrong while watching his game. Like I don't want to play in yall events if you are not aggressive with yall rules for ass hole. As my first LSO event this broke my heart. O I also went to tell Stephen Buck about this user. 13:00 - You are telling me that this guy is an experience player went to all your event and he played 6 rounds and he doesn't know how to play. When people told him he was playing his wrong list and he is yelling at people to mind their own business.

Remember everyone, if you cheat you will only get one more chance. And if you cheat again, you only get one more chance. And if you cheat again you only get one more chance. And if you cheat again...

Wait, this player got a YELLOW CARD and not banned from 2023 events? For cheating for all 6 rounds, while being someone to watch previously? This person should have gotten a red card and been banned for the rest of the season as a sign that you do care about the health of the community. It's important that there's accountability in this amazing, growing hobby.

"this player has a track record and a reputation" - BAN THE FLUCK OUT OF HIM AND DONT LET HIM PLAY. easy! eeeaassssyyy!

This really felt like a PR damage control video.

When the Event Manager and Fulltime Head Judge go public to defend and downplay cheating on their own events - i know where not to go anymore.

If you’re too soft to kick out the cheaters, you shouldn’t try to organize a tournament. They’re ruining a big event for a whole lot of people just so they can tell themself they’re giving one guy a chance at redemption. That’s a bad trade-off.

You can make a case that misplaying rules is an accident….but taking a list different from the one you submitted seems pretty blatant (and ban-deserving)

The cheating experience and spat reminds me of my time in supermarket retail, cheating like this is so similar to a shoplifter, they are attempting to steal in terms of experience, the brand, the value, the thrill, you have something they want and they are prepared to do what it takes to obtain it Shoplifters rarely exhibit remorse or regret unless they are caught on the first attempt, experienced shoplifters will feign contrition if caught, they often will be apologetic, but in reality the vast majority of people are devious, manipulative, they become accomplished liars (and it gets worse over time) The aim of the vast majority of shoplifters is to get away with it cleanly, people steal because they feel they can gain something without consequences Shoplifters create resentment, because - it's unfair, why am i paying x if they can get it for free, which creates the opportunity for temptation and the fallacy justification of its only a small theft, just this once - why aren't they getting caught and stopped - it taints the social compact , the user agreement of the experience and it feels personal - if affects people's livelihoods - its the easy route to success, its unearned, undeserved and unjustifiable Shoplifters create an atmosphere of fear, through their behaviour, colleagues don't want the unknown of having to deal with them, the uncertainty of the consequences if they get it wrong, shoplifters othen rely on the atmosphere of people either turning the other cheek, or people observing not wanting to be the grass Known shoplifters are watched, they know this, yet they still keep coming back to steal, they are habitual , but there's virtually no way for a shoplifter to redeem themselves and they often end up in a cycle, elements of psychology play heavily against this type of person (doesn't make it right) Stopping shoplifters is extremely hard, often we try to remove the incentive, rules exist, we surveil people acting suspiciously or review cctv after the fact or during the interaction, we place items known to attract shoplifters in specific locations to make it harder, but we can't stop people unless we actually view it taking place, we can't just go off a customers word just because they say this person is known for shoplifting, we don't know if its true, we don't know if its motivated by something else, we cant storm on in all righteous, and tell them to get out If a customer sees it they have to be sure and clear on what's happened but unless they are willing to stand by it and have the courage to resolve it no matter how uncomfortable it feels, then the chances are the shoplifter will get away with it or decide to not try it this time, they will simply come back at another time and try again *Remember a shoplifter only has to be successful once to win If another shop/business comes in and says, that guys been caught in our shop stealing, be careful, then we will take more appropriate action in terms of surveillance and checking, but again until they do the act, we still have to treat them with respect and dignity Shoplifting is also on the rise, and in hard times it becomes worse Unless all the security measures are in active, effective and taking place, the probability is the shoplifter will get away with it and create a bitter taste in the mouths of people who come into contact with it Banning a shoplifter is a serious decision, it risks depriving someone of something, it risks tainting the experience because everyone will talk about the negativity far quicker than the positive, it risks action being taken if done unjustly. and it also can create a bit of a PR nightmare due to the fact it tars someone and in today's social media environment its so visible, it creates questions of why wasn't it done sooner, or why didn't they catch X guy as well, it never appears to be a level playing field when action is taken against one player and not another, the armchair quarterback jury syndrome kicks in, it can also create a god complex in people issuing the ban if not used or handled correctly i know ive written war and peace on this and there's a lot more to this, but i feel these were just some of the feelings i had on the matter of cheating in a hobby i love, it's just at this level it brings a lot of publicity to it, like the difference between a shoplifter who steals a can of tuna, vs a shoplifter who conceals a hold all, and then loads it and steals your entire bay of coffee by no means are my comments a complete list but it just how i feel i I feel a lot of what the 2 frontline representatives said during this interview is fairly spoton, it will take everyone working together in the spirit of the hobby to reduce and minimise the impact of cheating, because no matter what action you take, what setup you use, what rules you employ it's never going to go away entirely, because for everyone you catch, 10 are probably getting away with it

Warhammer 40k need something similar to the DCI in Magic. People who cheat should be banned from all tournaments around the globe. For life or for some set amount of time (18-24 months, an edition or what not). I get less likely to go to an event that I know have a lenient view on cheaters. For example "giving special attention" instead of keeping them from the event.

You hit the nail on the head when you said access to information is important. Right now with index cards it's easy for opponents to check rules. But with the app going behind a pay and codices coming out the onage is on opponents to play correctly or judges to know there rules. I've never understood why tournament organizers don't have mandatory dice pools at a table that both players are required to use. If both players are required to use the organizers dice then dice cheating becomes a mute point. I did this for a dropzone commander tournament and had a little bit of pushback but at the end of the day people didn't care. And in the end if you use your opponents dice and vice versus it's one less thing to think about and track.

FLG is way to soft on this situation. The one bad player ruined not only the tournament for everyone at the event, but also the idea of going to events like this for new players like myself. I don’t want to have to consider “conveniently” forget rules just to complete at a large event. The judging management was lacking and so is FLG’s response.

How an organization can see blatant cheating and go "yeah, its cool. He might redeem himself" boggles the mind.

This made me feel a lot worse about FLG events.

Frontline Gaming has been very soft on cheating in the past, especially if the people that got caught were friends of the management.

“I’m compassionate” ??? Your compassion should be for the community, not cheaters. Any biz that knows to not service a what other biz’s have found to be a bad faith client that could ruin their product for the rest AND be a MASSIVE PR fire. This guy is on his back foot trying to do damage control and he just needs to straight take full responsibility, not do the dance of taking partial and putting responsibility on the community. Ofc we need to go straight to a judge, but own it completely if you want to earn the possibility of regaining lost credibility. I woulda paid for a an hour consultation with a damage control PR firm to have sorted how to actually handle this. Thanks for having them Trevy and not going easy on em.

William Abilez in case you were wondering.

I got like halfway through the video and couldn't finish. Nothing on you Tactical Tortoise, I love that you were able to get this out there and I'm happy FLG talked about it. But I cringed at pretty much everything said. I stopped right after the story of the guy who was 5-0, had an awesome story, had to build a model for his list, and then lost to the cheater. I can't stomach it. They should be ashamed that someone who did all that work had this stolen from them and it was preventable.

Being lenient on bad apples has a much higher chance of impacting the average player than a hard line stance on cheaters. This guys ability to ‘have a second chance’ shouldn’t override the 6 people he played against ability to have a fair match. This seems really straightforward to me

It's great to have these kind of proper interviews and insights shared with the community. The difference in audio levels between the two interviewees was quite difficult though.

As a player, if I find out my list is "wrong" at the end of round one, intentional or not: I drop. It's that simple. To proceed farther shows intent, and should result in something serious.

23:45 But guys he is not a first timer, he is a well known offender, with a long track record of cheating Was that his first time cheating at your tournament? yes, but he has been doing it for years now, and shown clearly no intent to change, reform, or atone, just ban him For any cheater void the game and make the results null, disqualify the offender, promote the victim that was cheated, and put the offender on a tournament ban period, so they wont be able to participate in tournaments for the next 2 or 3 years, it is classic rules of engagement for any competition, why act as if you have to figure things out from zero?

I don't think the admin guy did a good job of defending front line at all

I played at Siegeworld in St Louis, MO at the very beginning of 8th. Had my first run-in with cheating. We were running the scoring where you pick things to accomplish before your turn and then try to accomplish them during the turn. My opponent “forgot” to choose before turn 1, asked if he could pick some as his turn was ending. Keep in mind, this is the 3rd pairing of the day. I say sure, no worries, but make sure to remember next turn. He picks two that he did during his turn, full points. Turn 2, same thing. End of turn, magically forgot, asked to repeat. I said sure, but this was the last time. You don’t pick next turn, you don’t get points. Turn 3 I watch him look at his sheet, look to the table, look at his sheet again, and then begin his turn. End of turn 3, “whoopsie”. I say tough cookies, he gets upsetti spaghetti, proceeds to be extremely combative the rest of the match, and gives me a “frowny face” on the opponent scorecard. Little did he know the TO’s are close friends of mine, and were shocked to see this. I tell them what happened, they talk to his previous opponents, and he withdraws from day 2.

Glad to hear this discussion. Wish there was a podcast that focused on rules discussions for judges that could help train judges on the “rules we have questions on this week”. I don’t have time for all the research necessary, but could listen while commuting.

This dude just strikes me as untrustworthy and only out here trying to save face for his company. He's trying to make it sound like all these guys just made an oopsie doodle ah shucks. Na, people will cheat if you let them doubly so if there is money on the line and then (shocked face) they will lie about it after the fact if caught. Get tough or this will keep happening.

FLG needs to know they can't let everyone have a fair shake. If you let a known cheater into the event, it alienates so many other people. You can either refuse service to one or alienate dozens. The guy still isn't even banned.

I think if a player is caught cheating, and made the cut to the playoffs/finals: we should have a disqualification announcement for the player. The announcement should try to detail what happened, so everyone gets smarter as to what to look for. Then are they banned for a year from being able to make the final, probably. If it was a bad honest mistake, maybe it helps other not accidentally cheat too. Having said that: have everyone in the tournament sign (or not) a form of arbitration agreement for arbitration within the community, so it stays out of court, to deal with any potential slander/liable suits.

These tournaments organizers are cowards allowing this cheating instead of kicking these clowns out of the building.

When I was playing in 6th and 7th. I always had 2 print lists, 1 for me and my opponents. Why isn't this a thing at super majors? I am getting back into 10th soon, and I will continue to apply this method.

In the last official Middle Earth tournament in GW HQ the winner was a well know cheater... and cheaters kill the fun in ALL games torunaments 'cause nobody make a banlist.

Drop the hammer. This should be a zero tolerance policy. Every single competitive sport does this.The fact that WH tournies dont do that is why I would never play in one. As someone on the recieving end of a cheater (I was a kid and the dude was in college way back in the day). It ruins the entire experience at a LGS or Tourney.

Loved your discussion, I’ve done a lot of judging for 40k, and I ran for five years. He’s not going campaigns that we’ve had 20 some people for. The reason why I do not do tournaments is because the few that I’ve been in the attitudes was terrible. It was pretty bad when I would go watch tournaments, and I knew the rules better than the judges. And I was watching people actually cheat. But since I was there to just watch, I mentioned it to my friend. I hate it when experience players take advantage Of newer players.

Do players sign a contract when they sign up for events?

I think that any tournament that keeps track of bad actors should ask for feedback, a few random ones, a few from people that want to provide feedback, and a few from the opponents of bad actors disguised as random ones.

Something I think I heard. The judges are around if people need to ask questions. My experience with people when I'm working in tech is that they don't ask questions. You literally have to make a point of forcing the issue. Without actually having gone to one of these events I would suggest at least approaching the table and saying hey do you guys have any questions or concerns? Make it so you've approached them. Or perhaps even better tell me one question you've had this game or today or whatever. Make it so that they have to talk to you. That might help.

Been watching you for a while bud, great to see your success! Doubt you remember me but I was the Troll player up at Manch in the Warmachine days! Regarding the video though, after what this guy did why is he "on watch" and not "banned from competing"? The dude intentionally cheated and got caught.

Frontline Gaming, your mission is to produce fun and fair gaming events. Why are you going on and on about character rehabilization? Ban this player please.

The game, and more specifically turnaments, cant function long term unless players can trust eachother. No one are gonna know all the rules and units, we have to rely somewhat on others for their own rules. So we have to come down hard on cheaters. And yes playing a cheating list of remembering rules wrong all the time ect are cheating

On the topic of length of games, I struggle to watch Battle Reports here online. I like Play On Tabletop's "40k in 40 minutes" format because of the pace and editing. I like MiniWarGaming's 'camera-points-to-where-the-action-is'; and they appear to play quickly and it's edited tighter too. Time aside, I feel like too many battle reports use armies consisting of "this is what we own" which it's hard to fault smaller channels for, but it's nice to see armies/lists that reflect more competitive builds and/or 'units that I want to see perform' which is obviously very subjective. Chit-chat and banter between players can be fun, when you're playing... not so much watching, after the fact, etc. which lends itself back to editing games down to what matters. I like the Tabletop Titan guys as they seem really knowledgable about the game; but everything I wrote about above applies; the lists seem non-optimal, 1 or 2 static camera angles, lots of banter and off-camera conversation, recent battle reports I've watched are live-streamed Twitch broadcasts brought over to YT. That's just not where I want to spend 2-3 hours of my time watching... As for the cheating and TO reactions; I can see it both ways. On one hand, for the cheater, it should be clear that if they get caught cheating they will be outed, no little hand slaps. But broadly speaking I'm also against public shaming, and sending a cheating player to their next matchup with Yellow Vest and Matching Hat of Cheater McCheaterface isn't healthy either, as mentioned in the video, it puts their next opponent in a position of "fear of playing a cheater" and/or "baiting the Cheater to earn a Red Card" kind of situation.

I do find a bit odd to say that they don’t ban people based on what happens at other events. Yet they banned “the guy that had to wear a camera” after he was DQd at another independent event (my event at the store I own in fact” Not saying it was the wrong decision just that it seems like an odd defense in favor of letting the tau player play.

The owners need to allocate more resources for more staff and consult some other companies for how to handle these situations better from monitoring cheaters and a public relations front to build cred back in the the community. This was a big flub and prob net hurt them more than it helped their image. Did not inspire confidence they’ll do better in the future by new procedures or more resources for paying their staff and having extra staff - just that they’ll try to cover their ass more to avoid another PR fire again.

There should be a record of the offences and the date of occurrence on BCP. Then TOs can see if a "problem player" is attending their event and provide the necessary attention. Additionally it informs a potential opponent that they are about to play a sketchy player.

I feel like the problem is judges or people who do these tournaments dont do enough to make sure everything goes smooth. Also, If someone is caught cheating they are out 4ever only way they can come back if they write a long letter apologizing and stating that they wont do that again and ofc if he does it again its over.

Just regarding the anecdote on the player with a dice that had an extra 5 in place of a 2, something very similar happened to me in a casual game at my LGS. I had brought a blister of 30 small dice to make rolling easier, and part of the way through I noticed that one of the dice looked odd. I examined it more closely and there was a face that should have been a 4 that read as a 5, and another that had what should have been a 2 that read as a 3. In both cases if you looked closely you could tell there was a misprint, with an extra pip in the middle of the face that was a little off centre. Obviously I immediately flagged this up to my opponent, apologised and stopped using those dice, but I thought I would point this out because there is a lot of attention on dice after the poo dice incident, so just be aware this can happen and be careful of jumping to conclusions if you see something similar.

How is an illegal list not noticed? Was it the list? Or was he not playing what was on the list. Aren't these required to be submitted ahead of time? In which case is nobody validating them?

If you cheet deliberately like with weighted dice you should get a one year ban. If you get caught again it's over, you are not welcome ever. A player having bad sportsmanship is honestly just sad. Maybe the event should have a code of conduct and if you dont follow it you get disqualified.

It may come to the point where events have to sell dice to supply the venue with, I think that would cut some of the cheater dice out, but also I think ultimately that would only be a cure for a symptom. People need to find an amount of dignity and honor in fair play, and in winning, that overpowers the urge to just have a victory. That being said, even that is not a big enough factor lance armstrong cheated, professionals in chess cheat. I really feel that ultimately you gotta do your best.

Here’s a proposal: If you get caught cheating, all your matches at that event count as a 0 score loss. You can still choose to play, but your opponent gets an automatic win. This applies for any other events you attend for a time determined by a panel of judges. This takes away the stakes/rewards they are so desperate for and gives them the opportunity to look at the game for what it is, 2 people moving toy soldiers around a table. This also takes the pressure of their opponent since they don’t have to keep their guard up. Finally, this allows those who want to change or those who were judged unfairly (which can happen) a path forward Now if the person starts getting physical, then removing them from the premises might be warranted. Overall, consequences do need to happen but providing a way back is also important

This is a hot mess. My local guys have higher standards than frontline.

The longer it takes to get a judge to come over, the more awkward its going to be. Thats a fact Its 100% not awkward or weird in any way in the tts games because youre right there the whole time. Theres 0 time. Hey trevy, whats this? Bla bla bla. Answer Obviously they cant have a judge 1:1 per table but thats the #1 factor causing that mindset

Has anyone considered getting judges, volunteered or paid to monitor games via stream? I can imagine getting enough judges in some areas to walk around, assist players, rule on plays, and spot checking for violations can be hard. I’m sure there are plenty of people throughout the hobby that might not be able to fly to an event that would be happy to take them time watching over games from their home. Hell some Warhammer content creators might do it just for first dibs at the content. If you think of any “competitive” professional community, they are all doing it.

As an mtg player and former tournament grinder... yall need to normalize judge calls. I'll call a judge at a casual event to clarify new mechanics as an example. And it's not a weird me calling out opponent but I'll ask a judge before I make a play to verify that I'm correct in how it works. I also think "communal dice" rolled in open trays would fix a ton of issues. Minimize options for people to cheat. Mtg example brainstorm plus sylvan library requires a judge to be present in order to resolve legally. And that's because there is hidden information with a limited choice. Not that this happens often but if you run into anything weird in mtg we just call a judge. Strong players who know what is up need to lead the change in culture

Damn, I would never attend an FLG run event now after this. This guy is a massive apologist for cheaters as long as he sells tickets.

The LSO head judge isn't qualified to be a judge is a big issue. Hardly ever plays the game.

I'm not touching FLG events with a 10 foot pole if this is how cheaters are treated. I've run events, ive run event for official companies, i've run them personally. Letting any kind of cheating be let away with anything short of a year ban is absolutely mind boggling. This is pure soft-hearted ruling. "We can't let 3rd parties tell us about our customers" you 100% can. If you think your hands our bound by some idealistic business principle, then _change it_. Build a database or coalition of judges from 3rd parties to have universal ruling. FLG not an island. FLG is not "better" than other tournament organizers to disregard their peers.

Maybe you guys should share these lists, privately, amongst other professional events?

With regard to punishments, public shaming etc, here is my view: I don't believe in never giving a player the chance to improve and change, especially as many people who take part are quite young. At the same time, if the penalty for getting caught cheating is too low, especially in an environment where there is potentially money involved, then it just rewards the worst behaviour. I think time limited bans, increasing for each infraction, is a reasonable way to go. I also think it is very important to differentiate between infractions that are definitely deliberate vs those that can't be proven to be. Proving intent is hard, but some actions like loaded dice cant really be a mistake, and repeating a rules error after being corrected by a judge should also fall into that category. Where a person does cheat deliberately I strongly believe public naming is appropriate. It is one of the biggest disincentives to cheating, and I don't think it really has many downsides. I don't believe it represents a threat to a person's safety, and if a person gets dog-piled online for being caught cheating then I think that is just something they should have to live with. Public outcomes are vital for people to have confidence in the fairness of the game, and the somewhat hysterical complaints of cheaters and their friends when this is discussed is, imo, a good demonstration of how effective it would be.

If you soft ban cheaters you need to extend a free pass to the next event for all the people they’ve played against.

I am only 15 minutes through this but already the attitude from FLG is absolutely unacceptable. 'we don't care if you have deliberately cheated or if it is an honest mistake' . . . that right there is some bullshit, as is the ridiculous slap on the wrist the player received. I accept what they are saying about only being able to base decisions on what happens in their tournaments, but just based off this one event that player should at least be banned for a year. It is strongly coming across as if this is a business decision, with FLG worried they will lose money if they take appropriate action. I am from the UK so FLG don't run tournaments here as far as I am aware, but if they did I would be very reluctant to attend after hearing this.

Eyyyy, I've met all these dudes. Good work on the collab. Keep learnin' rules beyond yer own, Chat.

I remember Trevvy correcting a call i made when i was judging a Warmachine event when i was a PG back in the day at Adepticon.

It seems to me that the next step is having some sort of SOP for when cheating is discovered at a tournament. A set of steps to take that were agreed upon beforehand so that dealing with cheating doesn’t cause more mayhem. Something where it is known how stats will be recorded, how matches will be affected, if restarting is a possibility, or any other variable that could continue to affect players due to the cheating. This way people not cheating won’t feel infringed upon if their match up is now changed or a game they are in canceled due to cheating and having to restructure the tournament on the fly.

Besides prestiege, as a prize Front line should give like terrain/mats etc... or some 40k models of the winners choice. Money would be cool but I agree it ensentivizes wrong player motives.

Thank you for doing this interview. I'll be transparent in that I had a VERY low opinion of judging with FLG because of an incident that happened before LVO 2022. I made a reddit post that called out a terrible ruling their judge made (not Adam) then after the post blew up they commented they had changed their minds weeks ago and never uploaded the new rulings FAQ. It left a bad taste. All that said after watching this my opinion of FLG and their judges BECAUSE of Adam had gone WAY up. While I've encouraged my local players (I'm a TO) to go to FLG events I swore I'd never go to one. This has got me very much reconsidering that's stance. So thank you Trevy!

I think anyone caught with "trick" dice should be banned immediately. There is no maybe it was a mistake. It's confirmed. You've intentionally done the "crime". Something that could be a mistake, then flag, but benefit of the doubt. I think that once questionable morals, always questionable morals. They might just get smarter.

That guy Kicker is all excuses and say basically, we want just the money of the attendants,, but he isn't the head of Frontline gaming so he isn't the right person to talk about banning.

Are there really that many people that are cheating? I don’t think I have ever played with a person that I thought was cheating.

The guy in the green shirt definitely has too much faith in people these days unfortunately 😅

I do dumb shit which isn't cheating just doing the wrong thing with all the technical rules of Warhammer. With good sportsmanship which Warhammer generally has, cheating I always think are very definitive things which are obvious and clear.

A yellow card is just a permission to be sneakier. This guy should have been banned from future events. Do not pass Go, do not collect the trophy that you cheated to get. My mind is boggled that he was allowed to enter the tournament in the first place, let alone was not instantly nuked from the tournament once it came out about his blatant cheating, and was not permabanned after the event. This was a real bad Take FLG. Do better next time.

WHat exactly happened? What rule was misplayed and how?

So I'm definitely more of a MTG player than a Warhammer player. That being said, please take a look at how MTG handles judging. Staffing, judge calls, penalty protocols, ect. They do such a better job (no offense, it's difficult) at all of these things. It's probably the #1 factor for me avoiding the Warhammer tournament scene.

This dude, 'burn at the stake' His track record warrants banning for at least a year from events with high-notice at future events after that. Handle this appropriately.

Yugioh judges keep track of everything. It sort of relies on players calling a judge over but you're allowed to and encouraged to call a judge for every single mistake a player makes so that it can be tracked. Opponent accidentally activated the wrong effect at the wrong time? Call a judge. Opponent starts playing slightly slower than what you're used to? Call a judge. For the vast majority of judge calls people aren't punished, but their infraction is noted and tracked. Things may seem like accidents until patterns show they aren't, and every 1 bad player that you keep around for your events I probably turning away 10+ good players. I know for warhammer there isn't a konami id (or mtg's dci) for tracking across all events but for the vast majority of cheaters stopping it at the event or event organizer level will be enough of a deterrent I believe.

'L'-SO amirite

40k competitive is a funny scene. They preach that hardly anyone cheats but hear about someone being DQ or seeing a "cheater" video every other month. This scene has a massive cheating problem.

They shouldn't be surprised players arnt taking the time to grab a judge mid game, the rounds at tournaments are laughably short. Most games do not get past T3. Why would anyone want to burn time arguing when in reality you just have to go-go-go.

By having the whole Luke Skywalker disposition of, "i know there is still good in him," although romantic, its disturbing that it implies youre thinking about sold tickets rather than security and confidence in your product. If you guys pamper your cheaters, players like me will never have any interest in your "competition."

Basically, you can cheat all you want to and nothing will happen to you. You might get a judge to draw a frowny face on your list. What a competitive scene in 40k.... "ya, cheating is frowned upon... but realistically, as us event organizers...we prefer to get their money rather than ban anyone. If they pay, we honestly don't care what happens after that." This is unreal... i can't believe it's that easy to cheat and get away with it at these events. The punishment is basically nothing. Lol. Wow... I don't think you can call it competitive 40k anymore after this... just have to change it to tournament 40k. What a sad sad thing.

First of all, we need to just use the dude's name. Shielding him with "the player in question" and "that player". If your going to be a dunce, you dont get the luxury of privacy. Second, I havent seen the whole video yet, but if this doesnt result in a permanent ban, whats the point of the conduct policy? I firmly believe that these people should get the luxury of second chances when they have been caught beyond a doubt. EDIT: Really, one year "close eye on them"? What a waste of resources. Hit cheaters fast and hard. If you took a poll, id guess that the vast majority of the community would like severe violations to result in a ban.

Look at Magic and how many cheating scandals they have had and continue to have. While 40k probably won't be as big as Magic in a competitive sense, it will only grow going forward. Bans for cheating where the player admits to cheating need to be a thing. Not talking lifetime bans, but a full year ban from one LVO to the next should be on the table. Period. This player was cheating in multiple ways, and that's only the ways we know about! He could have been doing other things and didn't get called on those for all we know. It sounds like FLG feels they're exposed to liability if they ban someone on another organization or individuals say so. But in this case they knew he cheated. He talked about setting norms but what he's advocating is normalizing cheating.

Can we have a cat video, just the kitty, your vids are awesome, love the content, but I would like to see the kitty

great video

It should all be tracked for public use. Screw em. The only reason that this player is such a big deal is cause it caught the public eye, this conversation wouldnt be happening if it didnt. So make it all public so all these players can be held accountable by the community

Add a tip jar/ donation area in pay window for events and that all goes to the judges. Just a thought, not sure if it would work

Organisations need to talk to each other regarding yellow or red carded players. I.e not making it public but the head judges/organisers for not just frontline but for all events access and able to make decisions based of previous events. It’s perhaps hearsay to a degree but it’s proven by professional or realisable sources that are impartial to the players.

Trevy your “hell yeah” at Adam saying hes been playing since 89-90 absolutely killed me for some reason.

Accidental misplays (i thought he had BS3+!) should be punished some. But loading dice, multiple infractions, etc should be crushed and smeared across the community. If someone gets bad treatment at an event cus they cheated 3 years ago....oh well! I have no remorse for them. This is a plastic army men game with tiny prize pools, no reason to cheat period.

"Adam can't sell himself short" so... with that much experience behind him why is he not advocating more for a ban of the cheater? Like that makes 0 sense. This feels like a real quick way to ruin the brand of FLG if people lose faith that the events will be fair. Because all this does is encourage cheaters because they will see there are no real lasting consequences "Nobody who works are frontline gaming is here to get rich. We are all here because we are really passionate community members" again.... passionate but... letting this kind of blatant cheating go relatively unpunished. "I want to give everyone a chance to come to our events" then... why are you making decisions that actively will make people NOT want to come to your events

The problem is you give them another chance, you're giving them another chance to ruin someone's experience. Players should be given the right to refuse to play them without it hurting the good player. I can take on the "reformed" cheat and the results are recorded OR I can refuse them with it counting as a forfet for the cheat. Good players shouldn't be penalized by being forced to play a cheat.

Cheaters should be removed for life.

Big statement, name and shame.

Watching this, hearing their attitudes, and knowing how nonchalant they are about the whole situation now has me not wanting to take 40k seriously. If I'm playing for money I expect there to be enough judges to keep track of things, players being carded taken seriously, and much more structure than what has been showed here. I guess my 40k experience will never leave my local area. Hell I don't even want to try TTS anymore

Esports are bleeding money, and almost all have failed completely. Not a good frame of reference lol.

Ya lets just keep letting them get away with it. What a joke.

I havent even started playing yet and im obssessed with the drams

This player needs to be suspended THEN given the chance for redemption, and it's deeply disappointing that he is fine to attend FLG events going forward. If I'm paired with him, or a similar proven cheater, there is no way I am setting my models up. He can take the win. I'm not playing him. Not banning players due to a bad regional reputation is understandable and a fair point. But the Tau player cheated in your event. Now what? Cheaters ruin events and there needs to be a clear protocol on how to deal with them. Resolving cheaters on a case by case basis will really hurt FLGs reputation

As a dog person I still upvoted as soon as Inky started headbutting you.