I feel like you’ve missed a step in the use of a green screen.

I load my hi-point with Tula 115 grain :) I aslo carry a spare rock in my pocket.

Sir, I appreciate the presentation, and agree with your conclusions. I personally run HSTs preferentially, with the +P Gold Dots in 9mm as my second choice. But as someone who has actually witnessed the actual FBI testing in person at Law Enforcement Wound Ballistics Workshops presented by Federal and Speer, I'd like to make you aware of something about the testing. Perhaps you merely misspoke. The FBI testing does not include any test where four layers of denim are used. That test, so often quoted on KZfaq as being part of the "FBI Tests" came from the now long-defunct International Wound Ballistics Association. It is a very tough standard, designed to produce clogging of hollow point bullets of lesser design and is a good test. The Hornady rounds that feature the plastic insert in the nose were an attempt by that company to do well on the IWBA test, because prior to their release, Hornady bullets were famous for clogging and acting like ball ammo in gelatin. So were many others at the time. But the FBI "Heavy Clothing" test is actually set up as follows: "The Heavy Clothing barrier consists of: (1) layer of Denim (14.4 ounces/yard), (1) layer of Polartec 200 fleece, (1) layer of cotton dress shirt (3.5 ounces/yard) and (1) cotton T-shirt (5.25 ounces/yard) layered firmly on the face of the ballistic gelatin block. Bullets that are designed to defeat this barrier will expand to close to their bare gelatin expanded diameter. Bullets that perform poorly during this test phase will usually perform poorly on all of the remaining test phases." This is not quite as difficult as the "four layers of denim" test, but the FBI considers it more realistic. Four layer denim test results used to be shown on Federal's Law Enforcement website at the end, marked as "IWBA Heavy Cothing" but were deleted some time ago. I just thought you might like to know. Best wishes.

124g Federal HST standard pressure in my home defense Walther PDP 4.5". Easy to shoot and extremely consistent groups. I love it!

Right now with ammo shortages we have to use whatever is available. I carry critical defense in my Canik TP9 SF Elite. At $29 a box I’d rather throw the round at them so I can reload it later! 🤣 Great info!!!

"I would love if someone would start sending me ammo. That would be great." Hear, hear! LOL

147gr. HST standard pressure is my go-to load in 9x19.

Thanks for the video. The 9mm is my routine defensive handgun. When I need something larger, I carry a 45acp. When I need something smaller, I carry a 380acp or a 25acp. In my 4-inch HK USP 9mm, I usually carry one of the following 147 grain jacked hollow point ammunition: 1. Federal HST 2. Speer Gold Dot 3. Hornaday XTP 4. Winchester Silver Tip 5. Remington Bonded

I agree 100% . 147 grain standard pressure HST loaded in my M and P shield.

Damn it John! I’ll tell you one thing... why didn’t I find your channel before I spent way way too much money guns ammo and holsters... I tell everyone I know about your channel! All great info to take into consideration... granted I know it’s all personal preference but I did make a few changes due to your videos. And I’m grateful for you and what you do! Keep up the great work John! God bless you brother! 👊

HST > Hornady With that being said, I don't think there is much of a difference between the two when it comes to killing humans. Shot placement reigns supreme.

Great video!!! I am carrying the Critical Defense but after watching this and Lucky Gunner's video...I'm switching! Thanks!!!

"I'm not sayin' your babys ugly...", I love your John-isms. Nice video John, thank you.

One ting to consider is that if your sights are fixed,you may want to choose something that hits where you aim. I’ve found a drastic difference at 10 yards in elevation in the point of impact

I carried 147 hydra-shocks for a good 10 years, because that's what my first instructor told me to load in my gun. He was not only an instructor, but a mentor figure to me and so I took his advice. I have gone down to 124 jhp Federal HST, to get some more velocity, but I always have a spare mag of "shocks" in my vehicle.

The ballistic tests that I have seen on the 165 grain 40 caliber Hornady Critical Defense FTX is completely different than 9 mm. The results for the critical defense FTX 40 caliber were surprisingly good

Lucky Gunner's study made me ditch Hornady's ammo altogether and go with Speer Gold Dot or Cor Bon DPX.

You've convinced me to change to Federal HST. The Lucky Gunner tests impressed me too. It's expensive, but worth it. I have several 9mm Glocks and spare mags that I'll have to load.

I moved down to Mesa back in June from the imperial city of Chicago. I enjoy your videos I protect my family with a Ruger SR40C and 165 grain Hornaday Critical defense. So I’m kinda the OutKast

critical duty 135gr +p for me, i love the hst as well, great projectile.

Well the cost seems to have gone up. But I will end up buying and carrying the federal 147 hst. I had already chosen that round after watching it tested on youtube videos. Thanks for the video. 😁👍

Thanks for the break down. Critical defence was the round that the gun shop picked for me when i bought my first handgun. Its a bit pricey. Thanks for the better options. Your videos have taught me alot!

My department issues the HST 147g standard pressure and we've had great success with that round. Fantastically accurate video, thanks.

Thanks so much for this, my man. I’m looking for appropriate carry ammo for my sig p938. I was originally going for the hornady, but I’m glad I watched this before purchasing!! I’ll definitely be going for the federal. Thank you and God bless

I recently purchased a case of Federal 124 gr HST standard pressure rounds and am running them thru my Gen 4 Glock 19 and my HK VP9SK. So far I like them

Clearer and more detailed explanation than most. Good job.

I did research ammo before I bought a gun. A m&p 9c was my first gun and started off with Winchester pdx-1s but moved to 124 grain HSTs after i learned more. But made that decision with talking to a lot of people in the gun community. A few youtubers actually replied to questions I had which helped me a ton. KZfaq can be a very good source of information if you use it right. Your pistol/rifle/shotgun value/performance video helped me a lot as well.

Howdy! After watching your video I felt it be necessary I bring to the attention of your viewers; the reason, we in public safety would want less penetration from the projectile. When in high stress situations (or compact engagement areas) it is vital that we pay diligent attentiveness to the direction of aim. This is what is typically refereed to as back drop, or extended penetration marking. Making positively certain that if/when our round goes completely through the intended target; no one will be injured on the other side of the target, ensuring maximum safety of innocents and bystanders. It is rare when engaging a target that all other factors to the shot are definitively exempt, and there is nothing else to determine but the shot itself. When being the individual making the decision to be the first line of defense; either on the job or with loved ones I hope you all will take careful thought on how you plan on being the protector. CCW courses alone do not make you ready for the truly difficult choices in this realm of thinking. To all of you please stay safe and take what you will from this!

Thank you for the great video. I have done some testing myself plus watched a lot of videos on these two rounds and yes the HST may get a little bigger but from what I've seen it clogs a lot easier than the critical defense and from the wound cavities that I have seen in ballistics gel I honestly feel like even though the critical defense doesn't expand quite as large it seems like the wound cavity is bigger so while HST is an amazing round and I do have some for backups. I personally feel Underwood Xtreme Defender are amazing and the Hornady Critical Defense would be my second choice and then third would be the HST for me

My primary defense ammo is Federal HST. My secondary defense ammo is Speer Gold Dot.

Federal came out with a 150gr load, which is what I use. It's specifically for guns with barrels shorter than 4". Excellent ballistics and noticeably less recoil.

You can get Federal HST for around 30-40 cents per round. Hornady Critical Defense is around $1 to $1.25 per round. You can shoot more than twice as much for the same ammo budget, so I shoot and carry HST. EDIT: He says pretty much the same thing at the end, never mind.

I just don't understand the people who dislike the video, information is brought forward for a personal determination to be made. So do they dislike how you presented it or they just disapprove of your info. Second I carry HSTs as I'm in Phoenix too because no one wears heavy clothing so the Critical Duty ended up as target practice.

Hst for this guy, 124 grain standard pressure

I use HST 124 grain +p as my defensive round only, I train with federal 124 grain ball rds so in a defensive situation i will know what the recoil will be and to get my follow up shots on target.

I am old school 64 years old and retired leo . I carried a revolver as a duty weapon in the 1980 s- 1990s I retired in 1996. A friend reloaded me some reversed hollow base wadcutters with a. +p power load . They were good on small game animals ,but there were made without a gas check or jacketing of any sort. The +p powder load would actually melt the bullet s base so you have to clean good to keep shooting . But overall I think it would be a very effective round and will continue to try something that's new again.

You raise very good points on both types of ammo. Why I do prefer critical defense is that for a daily carry, I do not want the round to over penetrate, I want to stop the threat. It goes without saying that you are responsible for every round, so, for your everyday citizen who is not battling a Heat style foe with multiple levels of body armor, I don't want that round to do harm to an innocent bystander.

I agree with all the points. I carry Critical Duty +p, why? It feeds the most reliably in my CZ75.

In lower velocity calibers/barrels I think the Critical Defense expands more reliably.

One thing to consider are the laws of the state in which you live. Communist New Jersey has no concealed carry license so we're limited to protecting ourselves only in our homes and businesses. That said, they limit us even further with a myriad of laws concerning magazine capacity and bullet type. Mags are limited to 15 rounds. The law on hollow points is not clear to me - if someone KNOWS (not thinks) please let me know. As a result, for my home defense, I play it safe and load the Critical Defense since they are not a hollow point. John, I appreciate your content. Very informative without the hype and nonsense. I especially like the episodes where the bad guy takes the "room temperature challenge".

Ordered up some hst’s. Always run critical defense, but I think I’ll switch. Thanks for the education John.

Currently carry Sig Sauer 124g V-Crown JHP and it has worked for me so far. I tried Hornady Critical Defense and it didn't feed through my gun well

Hornady all.....the......waaaayyy

Here are the top three factors to consider in "best defense ammo" : 1) feed reliability 2) FEED RELIABILITY and 3) see 1 and 2.

I'm a huge fan of the critical defense round 💯

Another great video John. And I pretty much agree with your choices 100%. I use HST or Gold Dot in all my defensive handguns, even my McRib. :-) As you mention, HST (and Gold Dot) can be found pretty economically online. In 9mm I also prefer the 124 grain option as it has enough velocity to expand consistently in most all the tests I've seen.

Since no two models of gun handle the same ammo well, I ran 40-50 rounds (divided into 4-5 targets over different days) of twenty different carry and range ammunition. For my 9mm Walther PPS M2, the Federal 124gr standard pressure HST was the most accurate (centered and tight shot pattern) carry ammo. The Hornady 115gr Critical Defense FTX was the next best carry ammo. Winchester 124 gr +P Defender bonded JHP was pretty accurate, but much to my surprise, the Hornady 135 gr Critical Duty XTP was the least accurate ammo ( worse than cheap FMJ range ammo varieties tested). The Speer Gold Dot 124gr GDHP also was a poor choice in my gun. These are two top performers in most online reviews. It pays to do some comparisons in one’s own concealed carry pistol. Once knowing what ammo shoots well, then one can take into consideration other factors such as: ballistic gel or PH’s “meat target” penetration and bullet expansion performance; availability; and, cost. The comparisons I made included range ammo, so I knew what cheap ammo I should practice with that performed similarly as my carry ammo choices.

Luckygunner is a great resource. One of the reasons i carry hst in my shield and 110 ftx in my 637.

Great video, thanks John!

I loved/hated being op force during deadly force training in the Corps. I would have swollen hands from everyone shooting center mass. Two to the chest one to the head.

Thanks John! As if HSTs weren't hard enough to find already! Lol. 124gr Standard Pressure for my Shield, 147gr Standard Pressure for my CZ P-09, and 180gr for my G27. Can't beat it.

I've followed Lucky Gunner's and Shooting The Bull's results with great interest for years. For what they do, they do very well, but I have some reservations about whether they are looking at the right thing. Everybody is looking at the bullet and not at the wound. As you pointed out, you stop someone with loss of blood or hitting a vital spot. If the latter, I fail to see how big the bullet gets matters, a bullet in the heart kills no matter what size, so for this, penetration is all important. And, just like your garden hose, the thing that matters most in loss of blood is the diameter of the wounds, entrance or exit. When I look at the good gel tests, I look at the hole in the front face of the block. In most cases the only difference there is variance from caliber to caliber, not bullet to bullet within caliber (this makes sense because nothing has yet expanded) so blood loss would be a function of what organ you hit (optimally heart and surrounding blood vessels) combined with how big a hole a bullet makes initially. So what would matter is, again, not how big the bullet gets but penetration and how big of a caliber you can shoot straight in a civilian combat. As well as how many bullet wounds you put into the perp up to the point of diminishing returns (emptying your magazine, double stack or not, is FAR beyond that point). I also look at the permanent wound channels and I can see nowhere near the difference in the sizes of these in the gel as there is in the expansion of the bullet. The one exception to this is when bullets start to tumble. Then even most small slow bullets make far larger segments of channel than any, not tumbling, caliber. And the mere physical movement of tissue in the temporary channel makes little wounding difference. Further, small, slow bullets are much more prone to erratic tumbling, no matter what their starting and ending diameter. This may go a long way to explaining why, for many decades, European police were able to carry .32 Auto effectively. The one thing most people neglect is the numerical wound ballistics score that Shooting the Bull does occasionally and Lucky Gunner doesn't do at all. It, and inches of penetration, are the *only* measures about what would happen to the body shot. Bullet weight doesn't do this, nor does bullet diameter. And as far as I can see for the purposes of self defense that, along with penetration, is the real measure of bullet performance.

Hornady critical defense 115 grain

I use Speer Gold Dot because the round performs well in compact service and pocket pistols. I don't want one round for my G19 and another for my p398.

Great info, and well made. And I must say, the somebody send me ammo edit was absolutely hilarious!!! 😜. Keep up the good work, good info for avg concealed carry guy!!

Why isn't this channel more popular?

Underwood extreme penetrators but I run the Speer gold dot and lawman through my .357’s

Damn .... $0.40 for a defensive round. That's usually the cheapest you can find .357 Sig range ammo. Now i'm starting to see why everyone shoots 9mm.

I like the Sig V-Crown 124gr for my main EDC round. Close 2nd would be Barnes, TacXPD all copper, 115gr. For home defense Team Never Quite 100gr frangible holler points are my go to to minimize over penetration so my neighbors aren't in as much danger.

The best rounds that I have tested are the Lehigh Defense/Underwood Xtreme Defender rounds, Federal Premium HST rounds, Speer Gold Dot rounds and Hornady Critical Duty rounds. I have the least amount of testing time with the Xtreme Defender rounds but they performed basically identical in every firearm used and every test medium fired into with or without barrier penetration first. With the HST and Gold Dot rounds, they performed virtually identical in every manner and in every test medium. With both the department that I work for and in personal use, I have 13 years of using and practicing with HST and Hydrashok rounds but with the Gold Dot rounds, I have only tested them on my own for about 5 years. With the Critical Duty rounds, I have tested and used them also for around 5 years. They perform the best when having to penetrate a barrier in most mediums but also perform well when no barrier is penetrated. Where they do not perform as well as the HST, Hydrashok and Gold Dot rounds is in round expansion. They only expand about 75% of what the other expanding rounds do. I prefer HST and Gold Dot rounds over anything else but if the Xtreme Defender rounds continue to perform like they all have thus far, then they will take the place of the HST and Gold Dot rounds.

You won me over from Critical Defense!! All I carry is HST!!! Thank you brother!! God bless you and your family!!

most important is that the ammo reliably functions in your pistol. Any premium JHP from reputable companies like Federal, Winchester, Remington, Hornady, and some of the 'botique' companies like Double Tap and Corbon offer excellent defensive ammunition. Make sure you use the same magazines that positively function at the range. Not all magazines are created equal

3:11 That awkward moment when we end up at each other's gun fight (@_@) "Uh...hi John...um, Let Bygones Be Bygones....I guess....pretty please?"

I've been following your videos for awhile. I find your videos perfect. I can't think of anything to improve. Furthermore, i carry a Sig p250 subcompact .45 with Hornady critical defense right hip tuckable holster for times when I'm not suppose to carry like at work lol

My agency uses HST as our duty carry. I now carry it as my defense carry too

Agreed. HST loader here.

One thing he mentioned at the end is that you must choose a round that reliably functions in your firearm. Make sure you run several boxes through your particular firearm and make sure it functions!

Thank You, When I bought my 9mm SFXD Mod 2 W/ Grip Zone, the gun shop recommended me the HST type and that's what I use :)

Great review and very helpful! By the way, I don't think your green screen setup is working. I can still see the background. :p

Love being first. I think I'm going to go with Underwood for 380 but currently carry Critical Duty for everything. HST seems like an awesome round too. Have you heard anything about them clogging?

I try to keep it simple. Carry ammunition that is in common use by law enforcement agencies. Those bullets are not only the most tested in ballistics gel, but also have a long track record of performance in real life. I don’t like bullets like the xtreme defender that look cool in ballistics gel but have little to no track record of actually stopping bad guys in real life. The ammo that makes the cut for me is HST, Gold Dot, Winchester Ranger Bonded (and whatever the civilian name is), and Critical Duty. Any of those is more than good enough so there’s not too much reason to overthink if you have one of those. The only caveat there I would add is if you’re shooting a shorter barrel gun (less than 4 inches), look for ammo that’s either designated for shorter barrels, or has been tested and shown satisfactory results. I know regular HST, for example, is known to perform in shorter barrels. Whereas Gold Dots have a SKU that’s marked for shorter barrels that you should look for.

Hornady Critical Defense and Hornady Critical Duty are two different rounds intended for two different purposes. Critical Duty is designed to work in full size handguns with longer barrels, and in situations that law enforcement would find themselves in more often when needing to fire their weapons. It is intended for greater penetration, and to be able to fire through different types of covers/barriers with consistent performance. Critical Defense is designed to be shot from shorter barrelled smaller handguns that many use as EDC's today, and give lesser recoil. It is also designed to get a maximum powder burn rate from shorter barrelled handguns, and to offer lesser penetration than it's Critical Duty partner to assist in the danger of over-penetration when civilians have to engage a target with innocents potentially behind their intended targets. Both rounds incorporate low flash powders to help negate muzzle flash blindness when being fired in low light conditions. There are a few other different aspects between the two, such as Critical Defense having water resistance properties, but these are the main differences. Federal HST, Speer Gold Dot, and Remington Golden Saber are all good rounds, and typically have good expansion, but they do not perform as consistently as the Hornady rounds. I think it also important to note that the consistent, favorable performance of the 9mm Critical Duty round vs. the .40 S&W is part of the reason the FBI went back to the 9mm vs. the .40 S&W, and it is the round that now has the FBI contract. Both Critical Defense and Critical Duty bost a nickel coating that is intended both for smoother loading and being easier to see in low light for press checking, etc. Just for bonus info, the Speer Gold Dot is currently the round used by Navy Seals.

Great video as usual...by the way..my the Lord bless you and your family.

speer gold dots

I use 124 grain Speer Gold Dot, but I’ve used HST and Critical defense in the past. Overall, as long as it has a good track record I’m not too picky about my load.

I recall the Shooting the Bull video testing Hornady Critical Defense 9mm out of a 3 inch barrel and it seemed to be the best performer at that point in time. I think this was a few years ago and there were still a lot of different kinds of ammo yet to be tested. Now I want to go find this video on 9mm Federal HST in a 3in barrel.

Just trivia, but 9mm bullets aren't truly "9mm"; they're not .365", (or .354"), they're actually .355".

Federal HST 147gr +p is the king of carry 9mm

Great video. I always love to hear what you think. However I disagree about the hornady critical defense. I carry it because of extensive hours of research and feel it is the best round. This again is similar to the 9mm vs 45 debate. Everyone has there opinion, and the best round is the one hitting it's mark.

John, I could be wrong, but I feel like the Micro HSTs were designed to be fired out of compact or full-size handguns and Critical Defense was meant more for subcompact pistols that have a 3.5" barrel or lower, so that they expand reliably even when pushed out of a shorter barrel. I'm not an expert and I could be wrong but that was just what I always thought. Also, in your video, you ask why someone would choose a Critical Defense round when Micro HSTs can expand to a larger size. I think if you live here in the midwest where I live, where people wear very heavy clothing for 6 months out of the year, having a round that features a bullet with a polymer insert to ensure reliable expansion could be better than a traditional hollow point that would be more likely to clog. At the end of the day, I think having your weapon, keeping it reliable and in a carry location/method that allows you to access it quickly, and most of all, having good shot placement, are all more important than which bullet you carry, but as I've said, I could be wrong, but it does seem like there could be some legitimate purposes for carrying Critical Defense and that is what I'm currently carrying in my Glock 26

the hornady marketing is pretty legit. carried it until i took Reid's pistol I course. now i'm an HST man.

Federal HST’s saved my life! At the time it was my duty ammo. 230 gr. +P Federal HST. Not one torso shot penetrated through. My department switched to Speer Gold Dot 230 gr because the firearms instructors claim that it has better penetration through walls and vehicles. When I carry off duty, and when size doesn’t matter, I carry my Glock 19 with 147 gr HST +P or standard velocity. The standard velocity recoils less but seems to penetrate a little deeper and does not expand as much. The standard velocity still expands to a respectable diameter for self defense. If size matters, I carry my Glock 43 or my custom S&W 380 Bodyguard. With the Glock 43 I prefer the 124 gr standard or +P Federal HST. Unfortunately, as far as I was informed, Federal HST in 380 does not perform as well as Precision One or Fiocchi hollow points. For everything else. Federal HST’s. Great job John... I couldn’t agree more and you covered all bases.

IMHO the Winchester PDX1 is an underrated round. Great performance and readily available in just about any store I see ammo sold in. I wish it got the credit it deserves.

Have done informal testing in the desert with a a big ROAST as well as a HAM inside Levis ,going from one to 4 layers .Did the same with a med size jacket . The HST WIN EVERY TIME ! Hornadys are VERY AVERAGE . The sig crowns were good. The win ranger were VG. The discontinued DPX 'S WERE EXCELLLENT . I have tested all of them 3 times.

"In handgun bullets you do not get hydrostatic shock..." 10mm would like to know your location

Underwood deep penetrator 40 S&W

I carry Hornady Critical Defense in my J Frame and LCR. I tried Liberty Civil Defense, Remington Ultimate Defense Compact, Sig V Crown JHP and Winchester Train & Defend D JHP before I went with Critical Defense.

I have 500 rounds of the beautiful federal hst. 400 in 9mm in various weights and +p and 100 rounds in .45 acp. My favorite hp ammo.

I carry depleted uranium rounds in my EDC !

SCAM ON HST packaging : Only buy the LE edition , not the civilian 20 round box .. exact same bullet , different package cost you almost twice the price !!!

Here in New Jersey, although the law says you can own HST for home defense, if you use said ammo in defense of your home the local county prosecutor (Any county in NJ) will prosecute you for pre-meditated murder. Their line of thinking is that since you thought ahead of time to get an ammo that guarantees death then you intentionally wanted to kill the perp therefore you pre-planed the perps death, hence pre-meditated murder. Just a heads up on what they do to people who protect themselves here in New Jersey.

After doing my research, I prefer Speer Got Dot, especially in 147 Grain. A close second would be Critical Duty. Critical Defense and HST would be 3rd and 4th respectively.

Recovering Federal HST coolaid drinker here to say Winchester Ranger T is supreme. Nothing like those talons.

I like all of them as long as my gun feeds them reliably

I cant decide which to carry. I have some 115gr speer gold dot le and I have some federal Hst 147g. After watching this I feel fine carrying the hst. Thanks jon.

I personally use 180gr HSTs in my S&W M&P40. The performance of those rounds are top tier.

SIG VCROWN ELITE!!!

corbon dpx

Good video. I currently carry with the Critical defense. I have had the red polymer tip actually jam my gun when cycling, more than once... Gonna have to switch.

I feel stonewalled. I have been a Critical Duty guy since that very first FBI report was released. "Well, if it's good enough for the FBI, that's plenty good for me!" Anyone else in that same camp? Plain hydrashok guy prior to that, and black talons before that--showing my age here! I was also that guy that thought since the HST (or even Rangers back then) were so much cheaper, well, heck, they MUST be a lesser round. Thank you John, again, for your info. I just placed an order to switch to the HSTs. Critical duty/defense (I agree not the same bullet) are pulsating balls of suck and fail! LOL! I try to throw that into a conversation as often as I can!