The introduction of Romana II is the biggest highlight for many people, me included

I'll be forever grateful to this one for teaching an 8 yr old me what concrete is made of.

Destiny has a special place in my heart. It’s so bad it’s good

Probably my earliest memory of Who. Davros' web ridden hand waving into life

you can't believe how exciting it was for a 9 year old to have a new Dalek story in 4 years

My favourite bit is when the Daleks burst through the wall and start shouting at Romana to 'Do a poo, do a poo'

Watched Destiny back the other day. When it first aired I was 10 and thought it was great. Davros moving is the worst bit for me but as a 10 year old I didn't notice. Genesis is the best Dalek story IMHO.

As Steven Moffat once said, there isn't a great Douglas Adams era of Doctor Who. The great Douglas Adams era is four episodes called City of Death.

It was fortunate for the BBC that at the time of its original transmission, 1-22nd September 1979, ITV was off the air due to strikes. Destiny of the Daleks had 14-16 million viewers mainly because of this. No Corrie or Buck Rogers to compete with.

What about the Dalek gun sound effect. I think the dalek gun sound used in Destiny of the Daleks was the perfect sound for any classic (possibly modern) Dalek gun sound effect

the big mistake they made with this one is referring to the daleks as robots and once being organic life. They did the same to the cybermen and it made no sense lol

One of the others you didn't mention was when the daleks came crashing through the wall and shout do not move about 10 times to Romana.

I actually like this adventure with all it's faults and also the writing of Douglas Adams made it an absolute gem of a story. This is a thumbs up from me.

The script isn't entirely Adams's fault. Terry Nation's script was basically just The Daleks copied with a different title, which he'd already done once (Planet), so Douglas had to rewrite almost the entire thing, hence the humour. In fact, this is the last Terry Nation Dalek script, and you can see why they didn't use him again...

There are two good Dalek stories here. Firstly, a light-hearted pulpy romp by Douglas Adams, more similar to some of the 60s stories in tone. "if you're the superior race, why don't you come after me" is genuinely great. These scenes are quite fun. There is also a grim Nazi/Cold War allegory by Terry Nation, where the Daleks execute hostages unless the Doctor Surrenders. Very good, dramatic stuff that's similar to Genesis and Invasion of Earth... But ramming them together just makes an absolute car crash and everyone involved gets whiplash

You clearly weren't born. 10 million people loved it. Best loved Dalek Story.

Highly underrated story for me

When I was a kid, I remember thinking the Movellans's ship and their hand energy pistols being pretty cool.

I once watched Genesis and Destiny a week apart, and the difference is telling, especially Davros. But Destiny in isolation is fun, like the Adam West Batmans.

Okay, first off, THANK YOU for being for a female doctor, I like your videos anyway but THAT alone earns you a sub! Good on you! You asked for our gripes on this story. You highlighted most of them but... The extras playing the prisoners, they're acting is awful. Two scenes that stand out, when the daleks are executing them one by one, they just seem so blank and wooden. And when they get shot they don't react at all, compare that to Genesis when the dalek's victims were screaming in agony every time. Plus some even seem to brace themselves to hit the floor...despite being supposedly dead. The other one? The attack on the Movellan ship. It's so awkward and stilted it's actually funny to watch. The climax of episode one. In the 60's when a person was spotted by a dalek, if they weren't instantly gunned down, the dalek would very quickly make use of them. In this scene the daleks yell "do not move" like 20 times (I lost count). Honestly there's a lot of needless repetition in the dalek lines in Destiny. Like when the suicide daleks are almost singing with how often they repeat davros's orders. "Seek, locate, do not deviate" You mentioned Davros shouting his orders a lot. And it always bothered me why these daleks seemed to need to be told everything twice. I'd reason it's meant to highlight they're overreliance on logic. They are basically dumb machines and a bit slow on the responce...but since that's not shown anywhere in the story itself?....

While I like the Movellans, imagine if they had been swapped out, and the enemy the Daleks were fighting instead turned out to be the Cybermen..? I liked the bit where, during one of Darvos' rants, if you look closely (and it was probably a mistake), you can (blink and you'll miss it) see one of the background Daleks appearing to (somehow) 'shrug', which was funny.

Why not mention that One Dalek prop that was the only Genesis Dalek in the episode that was actually great, Regardless of the other daleks being cheap and flimsy. (That dalek is completely Gunmetal Gray with black Hemispheres and he has a gray neck film compared to the normal black neck on the dalek and the duct tape you see on the right side of the dalek skirt which to me, It shows that the dalek is battle-worn and has experienced much in the dalek empire)

My argument was they hadn’t completely worked out Tom Bakers Doctor in Genesis, so he’s a lot more serious and stoic. Destiny 4th Doctor is more dismissive and trivial, but that was what Tom Baker had transformed him into by this point in basically all episodes

The Dalek masterpiece that never was. A disastrous sequel to a masterpiece

I don't get it - they had day of the daleks props, planet of the daleks props, Genesis of the daleks props...... in the space of say 4 years how did these get so bad? Why are they all painted different colors? When in the one preceeding it (except death to the daleks) they were all the same? Which episodes did these Dalek props come from?

The good...the introduction of Romana II. Lalla is one of my all time favourite 'companions'. As a fellow time lord, she nails it, and she's awesome in Big Finish too. Movellan dreadlocks rock, The bad....Davros. Michael Wisher is still my favourite davros. Gooderson was just not Gooderenough. The ugly...suicidal daleks. Some say Genesis is over-rated. I think it sets the benchmark against which all other dalek stories are measured (its my personal favourite). The only time i think daleks were worse was when they were singing and Patrick Troughton was riding on them like a fairground attraction.

love these videos man! keep it up

'Rock, Paper, Scissors' is not just luck. The world's best players use a lot of strategy and judgement.

I’m sort of 50/50 on Destiny it’s bad but it still has decent things that I like about it. I’d personally say it’s not as bad as Day of the Daleks. That episode was good but didn’t really need the Daleks. The Daleks felt like an extra to the story, thrown in at the last minute and you can tell there are only three of the props. I also like that Destiny had the best amount of Dalek variation in the props. Some were a slightly different shade of grey, others had black slated, some had the two toned base etc. pretty cool 😎. The only thing I’ll say that deeply effects Destiny is Davros, he’s very forgettable in this story mainly due to him being overshadowed by the brilliance of Michael Wisher xx

I wonder if we'll get a Lost Stories release of this from Big Finish without all the edits done by Adams. Would be a good way to give Gooderson a second chance.

Destiny of the Daleks was my first Dalek story that I have watched before I had gotten hooked up on watching any other Doctor Who story from both Classic and New era but I did enjoy it, even though I do understand that this story is not a very good Dalek story from the Classic Doctor Who era but I still like and enjoy it as well.

I really have no problems with this episode and actually love the hell out of it. I saw it when it first aired. I especially loved the androids. Really wish they had done more with them. Very cool design. Of course it might be the first time they encountered beings with actual hands and not loungers which accounts for their ability to be vulnerable to somebody grabbing their power pack

I'm surprised you didn't mention Romana's awful regeneration! I still don't understand what that was all about...

I watch KZfaq on my phone and can barely hear you when I'm watching it indoors but other than that love your channel and all your doctor who vids keep it up

yeh i brought it on video when it came out in about 1993 and hadent seen it since it was made when i was 9 in 79 and couldnt wait to see it again and was thrilled the bbc had released it on video and was well gutted that michael wisher wasent the davros as i always thought he was in this and it was one hell of a dissapointment

I rewatched this the other day and I found that when I tried to not noticed them or overlook some of them it made it more enjoyable. I definatley think that the props let it down and some of the other issues you mentioned do as well. the dalek bombers do make sense because its illogical, Davros decided the stragey and because its "impossible" for the movellans and daleks it makes it more justifable. However I had thought why dont they plant the exposives onto the ship? It would make far more sense from a logic perspective, I know the problem then is why would the daleks strap it to themselves and I cant answer that, convinence perhaps lol. Then the doctor would blow them up before they got there. Then they capture Davros and the day is saved. I did have a few other thoughts, I think it would have been interesting to see a shortish story between destiny and ressurection. Something where the Movellans had developed their virus and the fleets were locked or something. I thought of that idea whilst writing this and I thought it could be neat if it were expanded on, not nessary but like sandwich filling lol. I think it would also be interesting if they used the death colour scheme too, it would help set up a kind of continuity in then the storys occured because I think its a bit all over the place before ressurection

Destiny of the Daleks is Awesome and Spectacular and great

It is nice that gooderson returned for that Davros rises trailer short at least

The elephant in the room is, why would they bring back Davros? He was killed centuries ago. When World War II started, we didn't dig up Horatio Nelson to help us out.

I've been trying to find this story after just watching Genesis of the Daleks for the first time and was like, wait Davros dies, how does he come back then?

Destiny is a good 4th Doctor/Romana II story, not the greatest Dalek story but it has its moments.

Actually, Davros' costume as well as the Daleks were on a touring Doctor Who show. The BBC didn't have the money to remake the Dalek props, so they requested the props back from the tour, explaining why all of the Daleks and Davros costumes are damaged. Gooderson was bigger than Wisher, and so he didnt fit into any of the costumes. Wisher's mask originally didn't have a mouthpiece, but one was added with latex for the exhibition...Gooderson then had to wear this too small, deteriorating, modified mask. Also, you'll notice he's not wearing the Davros glove. His hand has make-up and fake nails...His hands were too big for that as well!

Did Michael Wisher not have to move his chair with his feet?

I rewatched this yesterday on the new Blu-Ray release. For me this story has fond memories of being the first story I watched in colour on its original release. It’s not without it’s flaws. It’s a shame the Daleks were used more as a sideline to Davros and also it’s noticeable with the props there are a lot of issues when they could have had a radically makeover seeing as it was a five break between this and Genesis. I like the fact that for the first time we meet another race hell bent on Universal domination second only to the Daleks. Just wondering if Terry Nation had overall say if the story would have been different. Still I can think of far worse stories than Destiny but for me it would be mid to low ranking.

1:49 I like what you did there lol :D

Rock paper scissors has intense strategy mate. Indeed you can win almost twice as often against a random opponent using the right methodology.

I loved it as a kid, but in hindsight I can see why it is criticised. The thing that puzzles me most is, how did the Daleks get to Skaro without a spaceship and why do they need to wait so long for one to pick them up? The Movellans seem to have no problem landing a ship in Skaro.

If I remember correctly, doesn’t Davros’s life support systems just begin to switch on and not long after he just HAPPENS to run into the doctor in a corridor for the first time in years ? What are the chances this all happens like clockwork ?? Definitely could have made this story a little more realistic / interesting when it came to this plot etc.

at 5:10 you say that its a logical scrip error when the daleks say self sacrifice is illigical, but then do it later, but that was the reason they retreived davros, the whole stalemate with the movellons was because both their battle computers relied on logic, so the plan was to get davros to reprogram the dalek battle computer to do illogical things, davros just chose the self sacrifice route

Adams to blame for me and Daleks are clearly cyborgs not robots. Destiny does however introduced my all time favourite Dalek livery, Grey and Black. Yes Resurrection did it better...

I enjoyed the Destiny of the Daleks, sure not the best but not the worst. I have gone out of my way to watch all Dalek stories with exception to the Evil of Daleks as that isn't on Britbox. The worst sadly is, The Chase. It was a poor story that ended up with the Daleks Time Machine being destroyed VERY easily at the end of it

The problem is that most of the modern reviews are done by people that didn't grow up watching Classic Who

A lot of Daleks doing little jumps in that story! What was with that??!? Were they having trouble moving the props or something? There was one Dalek who did a little jump in the first Dalek film. The story goes that operator stood on a nail which made him jump and caused the prop to move upwards. I could overlook this sort of thing once, but what was going on with so many of them doing it in Destiny???

It’s real bad but I just love Romana’s outfit, also even if it was good it just couldn’t compare to genesis

I personally enjoy destiny because despite its flaws, it still has many good elements to enjoy, particularly the ship, the robot/sci-fi elements and the Romana/Doctor relationship. We’ve definitely got worse stories than this in classic Who.

Still better than any of the current Doctor Who today..😉👍

This was my first episode of Classic Who (I'd ordered Genesis, but Lovefilm sent me this instead) and I thought it was bloody awful. It's got really wonky effects, the Doctor doesn't seem to actually give a damn about what's going on, and it's TERRIBLY paced. Davros comes across as a bit of a loser here too. THIS is meant to be the same guy as the manipulative and sinister scientist that once built a bomb that would cause the whole of reality to evaporate? Oh, and on the subject of being sent the wrong DVDs from Lovefilm, I was once sent Remembrance of the Daleks when I'd ordered The Rebel Flesh and The Almost People.

Ery under rated story. Confirm the images of the daleks to be battered daleks sent to rescue their creator and you can forgive the state they are in.

It was like it was trying to be both “Death to the Daleks” and “Genesis of the Daleks” at the same time. Two great stories with vastly different tones and treatments of the Daleks. I still enjoy it though and would watch it again unlike most of the episodes in Chibnall’s Doctor Who which are boring.

Maybe not that good, but still 10 times better than any of the ' new Who'. The dreadlocked robots are quite fun.

every time i see the dreadlocks I always think of Rick James, highly appropriate of course given the time period

Overly harsh on a beloved Dalek story loved by many fans, with many great moments. And most Doctor Who fans would have known the story of Genesis of the Daleks by heart, having repeatedly listened to it on vinyl after that record has released in 1978!

Destiny of the Daleks was the first classic Dalek story & the 2nd classic who story I saw when I bought the DVD over 10 years ago. So pretty much the bar was set low when experiencing the rest of classic who.

I think the retcons made to this story in the War of the Daleks novel make things a little more interesting, such as terraforming another planet into a replica of Skaro and setting in stone a set of events that lead into Rememberance and the idea that the Daleks created the Movellans and faked a conflict with them to look weak in front of Davros. They definitely make this story more tolerable to me

Destiny is a heavily flawed mess, with some great moments of brilliance and some moments of idiocy (Daleks aren’t Robots, seriously Douglas, Terry explained it for you, and the two characters who SHOULD KNOW THIS EXPRESS IT). It is an enjoyable story, and nostalgic to me, but compared to its superior older sibling, it will always be in its shadow.

Great review

i do like the light grey colours of the daleks and there are parts of it i do enjoy but the production side of it is a utter mess, as you say the daleks props are in one of hell a state. The writing for the Daleks is really off, they are made to be fully robotic and the doctor seems shocked to remember that the daleks are organic when he finds the kaled mutant. The actress who plays the movellan agella in a fair number of scenes it stands out how bored she is. Davros prop and mask The Daleks lift up their shoulder sections, when moving. The obvious Vacuum filled dalek dummies(what happened to all the goon props from Planet and Genesis? The Kaled bunker looks nothing like it was in genesis. Daleks being carried by visible legs and hands pushing them. Yet it do find its a good one to put on and just chill. That scene where the movellan commander bitch slaps one of the prisoners is priceless.

Wasn't a fan of destiny of the Daleks wen I first watched it but I like romana 2 in this being her first episode newly regenerated. I actually visited where destiny was filmed at whinspit quarry the caves they used for skara and romana being captured and put to work inthe mines. Not the best story I got genesis of the Daleks aswell on dvd but haven't seen it yet. The caves at whinspit where this story was filmed are amazing well worth seeing in dorset

I just love the line of look rocks

It was as if David Gooderson done zero research into his character

I think Movellan battery pack aside it's one of the best. Great central idea, iconic Dalek reveal. Lalla really sells the Idea of being frightened by the Daleks. The pretty people being equally monstrous and locked into a logic war is brilliant. I couldn't disagree with this more.

Watch Derren Brown playing rock, paper, scissors. Might change your mind?

Criticising the Dalek props is really low-hanging fruit considering how miserly the BBC were about giving the show anything like a practical budget. My cousin and uncle built a Tom Baker era Dalek out of plywood and an old shopping trolley which is pretty much the materials the BBC had to make do with. It still cost around four hundred pounds which would have been the equivalent of a fifth to a sixth of the budget of a whole episode in the 70s. (I believed in 1963, an episode got the equivalent of £2000 and it hadn't risen by much ten years later) That's for one Dalek.

I think if it wasn't for the Mechonoids The Chase would be pretty low down on my list.I still think Steven going back for his teddy bear just about takes the cake.

Why everybody hates destiny of the daleks I thought it was good story

HOT TAKE: i think genesis of the daleks is the worst doctor who episode

I have a lot of nostalgia renting old Dalek DVDs from my Library. My opinion is Day of the Daleks is the worst classic Dalek story only because recently bought and rewacthed the classic DW dalek stories and felt that one was a slog(than again I watched the special edition as a kid and watched the unedited version recently). I do find destiny bad but in more of a fun cheesy way especially with the premise being: robots can't play rock paper scissors.

Shame that it introduces Romana II for the first time

I was 10 when Destiny was broadcast and I thought IMO it was marred by the return of Davros, and IMO Daleks work better lead by Emperor Daleks and or Supreme Daleks who are genuine and proper Daleks unlike Davros who is part man and part Dalek.

I agree that this story is kinda bleh (though I disagree that it's the worst classic Dalek story), but (unless you count Shada) it's the definitely the second best story of Season 17.

Well I love it.

Watched it Tonight... it is indeed Extremely Flawed, but, it is also still Plenty Fun enough to be a very watchable "B-Grade" Romp IMO! It could certainly have done with Adams Reigning in his sense of Humour to prevent the Mood Whiplash it induces with the Grim Lore behind why Skaro is so Ruined, and the Genuinely Horrific Nazi Concentration Camp and SS "Retribution" Slaughter Allusions in Several Scenes, (Adams humour is just too light-hearted, Saward's utterly *Gallows* humour from Resurrection and Revelation is a much better fit for the Daleks, yes, like You, I am a big fan of Eric Saward as a Screenwriter, and, I think he is often underrated as a Script Editor, some of the Scripts that got plonked on his desk for him to Edit by Auntie during his tenure as Editor were *Bad* Fanfiction at best and had to be near totally Rewritten, so given the base Material he often had to rewrite from, he did a pretty stellar Job! he also got Robert Holmes back on board and all Who Fans need to thank him for that, IMO, as it gave us "Caves of Androzani" one of *the* Great Dr Who Stories, after all!) and It utterly boggles me why Terry Nation went against his own Lore (absent Mindedness?, just not giving a Hoot anymore? Sheer Spite as the result of a Blazing Row with Auntie? we may never know!) and made the Daleks pure Robot and forgot about the "Seething green Lump of pure Hatred" that is inside the "Tank", that really did Weaken the Daleks to a terrible Degree! It is indeed also let down by the many technical issues they had with the Dalek Props (such as the notable Wheelies that they pull when moving away! and let us not even return to Davros's Pedal-Car chair...) and indeed, the Bad Paint Job on the Dalek's does not work here where the Daleks are supposed to be at the peak of their Pomp, they should be Pristine and Gleaming like in "Day of the Daleks" , but, on the Flip Side, the Props being in such woeful condition worked *Brilliantly* in Resurrection (where the same Faded, Scratched, Dented, "junk" condition of the Props (which, apparently, was Re-Created as the props were supposedly Fresh off the Production Line!) just *sold* them as the Desperate Survivors of a catastrophic military Loss!) and had they been Repaired and Repainted Properly for Destiny, Resurrection may not have worked as well as the Props would have maybe been in "too good" a Condition had they Recreated the "Restored" look on the New Props rather than the "Junk" Look! ) , however, I will say the "Phoned in" Extra's Performances as the Slaves actually kind of Works, it does somewhat sell the fact that the People, are, Tragically, utterly Broken, and now view death as a relief... Still, it is a Fun Enough "Take your Brain out and Enjoy the Exterminations" B-Grade Adventure, and is a Vital chapter in the Davros Saga to Introduce the Dalek-Movellan War, and Davros being Frozen, which are at the core of the events in the Stone Cold Classic that is Resurrection of the Daleks, and, good Point, it did start the Updating path on the Dalek Extermination Effect that lead the the Iconic "Remembrance" one that is still used to this Day, and there is a line from Davros about upgrading the Daleks with new Weapons of Incredible Power that can be Interpreted as the first Seeds of the Idea that lead to the Special Weapons Dalek! It is a Fun enough Watch, but... it is *Far* from a classic. Agreed. However, given that, although to Swap from one "Metal Meanie" to another, I also Enjoy Revenge of the Cybermen and Silver Nemesis, and consider Attack of the Cybermen to be Criminally Underrated.... what do I know! maybe I am more of a Rolykin than I like to think! Note: Nu-Who Rant Removed as we are not going to see Eyestalk to Eyestalk on it at all and I don't think the Universe can afford another Renegades Vs Imperials Spat!

🐙

I really..... REALLY... don't like it I did back then, but man this episode is So..SO.. unbearably..SLOW, poor gooderson. I prefer Genesis tbh

no, Destiny is the 2nd worse. 1st worse is Resurrection of the daleks - why? cause so many people overrate it to be one of the best. yes it's dark, but the plot is an absolute shambles. at least the plot in Destiny makes sense and isn't full of 1000 plot holes

I like destiny of the daleks.

This whole season was a bit of a mess.

Listen, this is my favorite episode. I love how the old mask makes Davros look like he's decaying and deformed. I love how beaten up these daleks are, showing that they are the battle damaged Movelen war veterans, sent back to Skaro from the front. And this story does something I wish more did, it uses different types of daleks, with an older grey unit commanding, and the new greenish grey units as footsoldiers, my favourite dalek color scheme until the renegade daleks. This perfectly introduced the seeds of the dalek Civil War with davros's desscust at the Supreme Dalek's existence. The idea of the logical impass is fascinating. As to the daleks being described as robots, it works here. These daleks are slaves to their internal computers, almost entirely devoid of their kaled nature, the final stage in dalek evolution without davros. Genesis is the story of the beginning, destiny is the story of the future. After their loss, the daleks learn to stop relying on their computers and cybernetics, which is why they are horrorfied by the cyborg imperial daleks. I would argue that this is the episode that sets up remembrance best. I do think it might have been better with less Douglas Adam's, as his humor definitely hurts the story, which is why Terry Nation wasnt happy with it. but all and all, it's pretty good. Oh, and I like this one better than Genesis of the Daleks and Resurrection of the Daleks, so there

I like Destiny of the Daleks

absolutely honesty on the female doctor not working is the issue of changing the gender of the doctor. I was used the idea when Tom Baker suggested it way back when. But with the current writing style of directors trying to write for a “modern audience” usually is code for really crappy writing coming. Personally I would’ve loved to of seen a spinoff series on Romana. I still wish she would return. Potentially as a spinoff, possibly working with Jack Harkness and torchwood. Since she was dealing with multiple universes with the gates at E space I would love to see an expansion into other universe for story content.

Imo, I think death to the daleks is worse. I can at least enjoy this if I don't take it seriously and just view it as a bit of fun

I love thus story srltill rate ot a 10 out of 10 this guy talking. Knows nothing

I put it about on par with Resurrection and Revelation as the worst of the Classic Who Dalek stories, probably followed by Death to the Daleks. The idea of the Daleks having to fight another logically thinking race is interesting. It's a shame the props are so tired and the operation of them is not so smooth, but I can forgive that for the story.

My feeling on Destiny is that it is badly written, performed and executed. But it is not the worst Dalek story primarily because it’s got fun and it’s short. That’s not great praise but much better than planet of the Dalek which is just long and boring

When the young me first saw this story around 1979/80 I thought it was pretty great although even then I missed the presence of Michael Wisher as Davros. These days I see it as a rather tatty and silly effort that easily ranks as the weakest Dalek story of the 70's.

Romana regenerating at will at the start. Not exactly canon!

I would definitely rate The Chase way lower than Destiny. Terrible!

Romana isn't a female Doctor... she's a female Romana.

The issue isn't that a "female doctor doesn't work", it's that gender and race swapping characters for political reasons is ridiculous - and in many cases the intentions behind such decisions are malicious.

A poor story, but the Movellans were sort of interesting.