"You are simply bad product." One of the coldest lines I've ever heard in a series.

When Homelander barges in to Stan's office the first time, he unwittingly establishes the power dynamic practically immediately - he freely admits that he is not _acting_ but rather _reacting._ He's there _because_ Stan doesn't visit him. He's not there for any forward purpose of his own. He's admitting that Stan can make him show up just by being distant. Also, on the point of not killing Stan, Homelander knows that Stan's power is in his character (like you covered). He knows that Stan is more powerful in that regard, and Homelander is inferior. That doesn't _per se_ stop Homelander from just killing him, but killing him would not change anything. If he does not break Stan's character before he kills him, he will spend _the rest of his life_ never able to let go of the fact that _he lost._ Killing Stan would be tantamount to admitting he could never win against him.

I love how the progression of these scenes demonstrates the power of subtle agency. Too often people hear "interesting characters have agency" and then proceed to write bland power fantasies. Characters like Stan Edgar illustrate how internal control can be just as impactful on a narrative as more obvious, external sources of power.

When Stan got humiliated by Neuman and has to resign as CEO of Vought, he didn't fight back, have a mental breakdown, blame somebody else. He just took it like a champ. Even his last conversation with Homelander showed that this man just doesn't care, he knows who Homelander is, a child who's trapped in adult body, a child who doesn't like to be defeated and wants to be on top. He knows one day Homelander will totally losing his insanity and he will be like a ticking time bomb who will explode one day. Right now, Homelander is on top, take control of Vought, even has a lot of fans who likes his action, has his son, Ryan on his side and he feels untounchable. Stan is enjoying his retirement and just waiting for Homelander to get crash and burn one day.

Their dynamic is interesting in Stan isn't even trying to play "the dad" he is simply in that position as a result of Homelander's "creation". Homelander can never get what he wants from Stan because it is not in his nature to act in the way that might actually get the approval of his "father". Stan tells him he is disappointed in him, Homelander counters with threats, and Stan already knew that is exactly what he would do. Stan is simply bored by Homelander, and Homelander knows that boredom and disappointment is 100% real. Homelander can't kill him because deep down he wants his approval. He wants to prove not just to Stan, but to himself that his "father" was wrong about him.

I love the moment where Homelander tries to threaten Stan, who just simply stares at him indifferently for a few seconds.

25:23 I love the way Edgar looks at him like "used to?" cause he knows Homelander is just as scared as he was any other time. It's like getting scolded by a teacher, realistically the teacher can't make you do anything, but your child brain compels you to follow their commands. Homelander is just an arrogant schoolchild, and Edgar is the strict teacher who can't slap him with that ruler but carries it anyway to make a point, and it works to perfection

A few other things: 1. When Homelander says "You never come up to see us," he seems to be alluding now only to their respective floors but also their places in the hierarchy-- that for Homelander, coming to see Stan in person is actually a literal and figurative step down for him. It is a thinly veiled barb that sets the tone for the conversation (ie Homelander feeling slighted by someone whom he believes to be beneath him) 2. You mentioned how a dialogue like this is a window into characterization. I submit that through this first exchange, we get to see two sides to Stan Edgar: the cheerful, communicative public face, the CEO who is cooperative, diplomatic...and then the real, ruthless Stan once he drops the act. You can sort of see why the showrunners cast Giancarlo Esposito as Stan, as it's the exact same kind of "villain putting on an act" we saw him do really well with Gus Fring in Breaking Bad. 3. SO MUCH OF THIS IS BASED ON BODY LANGUAGE. Homelander comes in with full of confident, dominant swagger, strutting around the office like he owns it and even putting his feet up...and this is all met with impassive, indifferent immobility from Stan...and then it's Stan who becomes mobile and confident, walking around the office demonstratively, as he takes control of the conversation, while Homelander's body language becomes more tense, uncomfortable, and then angry. Facial expression also plays a huge part-- how Homelander starts smiling (practically sneering), then it melts into an uncomfortable half-smile, before it disappears as anger takes over; while Stan is at first cheerful and smiling, then utterly stone-faced and impassive. This is not something easily shown in a novel or a script, but it is incredibly important to this scene

I am still convinced that things are still going at least partially according to Edgar’s plan. He claimed he had a plan to be out of the Supe business in five years, Homelander taking over and ruining both his reputation and that of Supes in general is a sure fire way to do that. Allowing Edgar to take center stage again as one of the few Vought executives untainted by association with Homelander.

"once he sees you as weak, it's over, hewill kill you" might explain why he never tries to kill Butcher too he is also "just a guy" but he is not intimidated by Homelander, thus Homelander doesn't know if he could actually do it

My favourite thing about Stan Edgar in his first scene is that in his supposed "fawning" of Homelander, he wasn't doing it for the same reason everyone else did it - that was him trying to give HOMELANDER an out, a warning shot before he had to shut him down.

Love the follow up Homelander still, even when he's "won", checking up on Stan's heartbeat...still steady as always. He can't believe he's that calm and in control, in the face of oblivion. It confirms that he has always been the immovable object, to Homelanders frantic slinky of a persona. Stan is stone, not because he "acts" like it, because he truly is a man who has seen and heard everything coming. Stan is entropy, and no one knows it yet.

One of the big things here is embodied in the quote: the opposite of love(or hatred) is indifference. Stan uses his lack of passion to mock and counter Homelander’s dependence on it.

The dynamic is set by the secretary who apologizes to Stan for Homeland barging in. Normally it's high alert and panic instead there was a sense Stan is deserving of more respect than the fear of Homelender

My God... you're right! We've literally NEVER seen Homelander out of his superhero costume, even though we HAVE seen every single one of the other supes in their 'civvies' at some point! I never even noticed that before you mentioned it - at least, not consciously. But yeah, that is an incredibly subtle but incredibly powerful bit of characterisation on the part of the writers. I have nothing but the deepest respect and admiration for this show's writers - they knocked it completely out of the park. It's a beacon of hope - in a world where 'The Rings of Power' and 'The Witcher: Blood Origin exists' - that not everything commissioned by big-bucks companies is going to be abjectly terrible with narcissistic showrunners and writers.

My favorite line from Stan, “it’s your party, you can cry if you want to.”

Some thing else that i noticed right at the start is how Edgar "made" Homelander come to him instead of going to him. singnaling that he has better things to do and has higher priorites than talk with Homlander.

Stan looks at homelanders antics as literally a child screaming and crying "love me daddy please love me" N Stan doesn't even like homelander that much so he just sees homelander as pathetic and straight up pities him. When u look at it that way, even if homelander can go into space it just starts to look really sad...

Another good example from the Avatar series as a counterpoint to Azula was Zaheer from Legend of Korra season 3… after his defeat in the show, he is just defeated, not broken or beaten.

Stan edgar is one of the bravest people in the show. He had no powers and knowing told one of the most powerful and emotionally immature superheros that they are nothing to him. Knowing that if it backfired homelander could have killed him in 1000 different ways without any effort.

How Homelander and Edgar express power feels as different as how Kylo Ren exerts power vs how Darth Vader demonstrates his throughout the movies. One is a guy with superpowers and terrible self-control, while the other doesn't need those superpowers to actually have power.

I'm a simple man, I see Stan Edgar and I click. I remember one of the other videos from back in 2020 about him as well. He's probably one of the most domineering characters in the entire show simply because of his own self control. I think the entire season 2 finale of the boys helps push that point across especially with how homelander ended up acting going into season 3

Tywin, Stan Edgar, Gus Fring, just some wildly well written and interesting characters

Stan in many ways embodies the people who helped shape Homelander into the monster he became. Homelander spent most of his life deprived of basic familial love or attention so the fact that Stan can scold him the way he does is unlike everyone else in his life. Stan absolutely hates that the Government and Vought keep dumping money into superheroes.

In the starlight/Edgar scene, the subtle nuance of the lighting making it look like a potential nip slip, on a costume change starlight didn't want but the world was bent to Voughts will instead perfectly reinforces Stans point.

One of my favorite things was about their first interaction is it seems Stan is scared hence the respect then you realize Stan is being utterly sarcastic he doesn’t care

I loved how stan in just by saying: like Im your daddy completely dominated and humiliated homelander; he told him he isn't vought or a god he is just a child with laser eyes, and he makes sure homelander is aware of this, homelander hears stans heart beat and knows he isn't scared of him and I'm sure he used the same tactic on solider boy; maybe if he met him he would've said something like: Like father like son 2 weaklings begging for validation; both pathetic; the only thing I could feel for either of you is disgust; now kill me or get out of here!" I would've loved however when maeve asks homelander "what did you do?!?" homelander to answer: "scorged the earth"

"What makes a character powerful if absent makes them week" It looks soooo obvious but i neded to hear it in a sentence to actually become aware of it.

To summarize. "Why do you antagonize him like that? You know he can kill you, right?" *"At this point, it's a game. If he gives in, I win. And he knows that."*

Tywin Lannister had the same kind of commanding presence and has a lot of the same dominating traits as Stan

I love how good actors bounce off one another.

So I wanted to point out that the power dynamic is actually established even earlier in the conversation than what you pointed out during their first interaction - in fact, it's right at the beginning! Homelander barges into the office and Edgar allow sit, partially because there's no way he can really stop Homelander from being there physically but also as a display of his power that he isn't threatened by his sudden presence - but the smoking gun that gives away the power dynamic early on is the line from Homelander "Well you never come up to 99". This line does a whole lot of work with very little. It establishes that the floor where Homelander and the other Supes operates on is higher up in the building, which typically correlates to more importance within a business, and initially seems to give Homelander the edge of superiority, that he can just show up whenever he pleases. But the truth is that Edgar is the one displaying his power here! By not going up to the 99th floor, he's demonstrating through inaction that the Supes - even Homelander - are beneath his interest. By actively ignoring Homelander since taking over, he has forced, through his inaction, Homelander to come to him instead of the other way around. This is such a subtle yet powerful piece of dialogue that really displays their entire dynamic from the get go. A really masterfully written piece of the show, I must say!

I like how the perfect example of how characters like Stan take losing everything is a guy who is played by the same person just shows you how good the actor is at playing this type of characters

I was so convinced that Homelander would rip Stan’s head off, but I knew at the same time that he wouldn’t

I don't believe Edgar has been stripped of his power. I think he maintains his demeanor because all he has to do is wait it out in a bunker. Homelander could kill him publicly or privately but does neither. I think Edgar is counting on that and knows that Homelander's proverbial head will explode as it gets bigger and bigger with every ego inflation he gets.

I recommend people read the comics. He was never fazed by Homelander even when he approached him with an army of other supes, he told Homelander to quiet down from waking up his baby. Thats how little James Stillwell took Homelander seriously

There is a hint of foreshadowing that the power dynamic isn't in Homelander's favor. "Well you never come up to 99." Stand Edgar doesn't come to see the superheroes, in particular HL. If he really had the power he thinks he has why is Stan ignoring him. If he's the King why is he coming to Stan, rather than summoning him?

The dialogue is great for sure. Giancarlo Esposito sells it so well.

Giancarlo esposito may very well be the goat of stone face

Homelander. Stan Edgar. Savage Books. Lets. Fucking. Go.

I mean... of coarse Edgar holds the position of power in the scenes he's in. He is played by Giancarlo Esposito after all. The man that could upgrade his role from one-and-done low side character to main antagonist with just the way he said his lines and bodily acted.

After 2 minutes I started thinking about how cersi in game of thrones handled little finger in that one scene, the set was a little different but it's that same idea of knowing where true power lies and not just the idea of power

This is cool as fuck, and I sometimes find moments between characters like this more entertaining then actual fights in shows😮

19:13, Beckett actually does break down when he realizes he’s lost all advantages in his fight against the alliance of pirates at Shipwreck Cove. His persistent smarmy and pompous demeanor dissolves the moment the Dutchman is revealed to be captured by Will and he can do is mutter deliriously before taking one last walk along the deck of his ship as it explodes.

I can't wait till the ending where we see Homelander happy as a dairy farmer looking at a setting sun with his boy

THAT'S where the Ashley look at me came FROM??! wtaf

The best way to control Homelander is to not be afraid of him. There are 5 person not afraid of him. Butcher, Ed, Ryan, Vogelbaum and Stormfront. And all of them hold either some power over him or are more save from his anger. He did not kill Edgar, no matter what he said. He repects Butcher to some extent, vogelbaum abused him his whole life and the worse thing homelander did was to put him in a wheelchair. Homelander actually like people who are not afraid of him, who are honest with him (he hates being lied too). Edgar is the most extreme and this drives homelander to him. But he also enjoys to dominate people. Homelanders whole personality revolves around submission and dominance. His life, his sexlife.

Tywin and Stan Edgar would be an epic showdown

One of the things I love most about this show is its consistency. It’s one of the few IP’s that I have total faith in.

It took me 15 minutes to realize that was a microphone he was holding. I thought that shit was an audio interface the whole time 💀

Glad to know that I’m not suffering from Homelander withdrawal alone

He's my favorite character in that whole show.. Stan Edgar is an amazing character

I have been wondering ever since I found your channel if you were going to do a dialogue dive on this scene, because it stood out to me so well when I first watched it in terms of high quality dialogue. Excellent analysis! Thank you for picking this one up.

Great great video! The thing that struck me listening to you talk is that there is so much base level psychology that applies to these themes that you see examples of in life as well. Might be a stretch but this is such a powerful message about one’s self-worth and intrinsic drive. Thank you

5:59 Stan Edgar was actually introduced in the penultimate episode of the first season when he offers Madelyn Stillwell his job. But your point is well taken. Excellent analysis. On a sidenote, I feel sorry for people who watched _Breaking Bad_ for the first time after _The Boys,_ because they immediately read Gus as badass when he is introduced, precisely because they've seen him in other similar roles. Not knowing who Giancarlo Esposito was when I watched _Breaking Bad_ made his performance as Gus that more compelling. That said, the reverse is also true. People who had seen _Breaking Bad_ before _The Boys_ instantly read him as badass the moment he was not introduced, and were not surprised that to find out later that he's not intimidated by Homelander.

This breakdown and analysis was excellent! A well spent 30 minutes!

I had the exact same reaction to the Homelander scene at the end of Gen V.

"Ashley! Look. At. Me!" Leon S. Kennedy wants to know your location

Homelander is neither worthy of working at Los Pollos Hermanos nor is he worthy of eating Pollos chicken.

Fan theory: Stan Edgar is in fact a "supes" just with a different skill set.

This is excellent. Its funny I've seen the final scene many times but not noticed Homelanders little glances across for approval

Lord Beckett's death didn't strike me as Genuinely Calm. Sure the man was walking calmly through death. But I think that's more a frenzied acceptance. A "freeze" reaction to danger, effectively. He's not "calmly taking it in." He's dissociating in a panic attack. Those are different imo. Edit: also the panel quote towards the end says "Homelander can't against him." Not sure if that's able to be fixed or that it matters. Cheers mate!

Well written characters and well written interactions between well-written characters seem to be few and far between anymore

That's one hell of a title

Came here for the video. Stayed for the voice. Jesus

Another great analysis of some great dialogue. I haven't seen the spinoff yet but I happen to be rewatching The Boys rn so this is timed perfectly! These videos give me so many tools that I can use when I write my own dialogue 💕

Two wonderful actors in two wonderful roles.

A bit out of topic of the video, but what is hilarious to me, that homelander holds no real power not only in his world, but he's also so utterly pathetic that compared to other functional universes he's the least powerful version of "evil superman" trope. General Zod, or, say, Injustice Supes? Wrecks this nerd. Ultraman? Easily done. Red Son? No problem. Burn Bright? Can do. And don't even get me started on Omni - Man.

1:46 basically a quote from 1984

1st time on this channel. Impressive! Your analysis of how to show power dynamics is brilliant, concise, and inspired many thoughts on improving power struggles in my novel. Subscribing now. Bonus, your voice is so rich and mellifluous that you could read a phone book beautifully.✌🖖

I love your dialogue dive series so much, it's always so interesting!!

Dude I was eating! Did you have to bring Timothy into it?

Great breakdown! I've only just discovered this channel. I'm looking forward to going through them all!

This video deserves way more likes. Keep up the good work brother

Your channel is a blessing

A fantastic video, truly. I've learned a lot, thank you.

Great video …the agency is the key

First video I’ve seen from you. This was incredibly well done! The editing to support your points was very impactful! Thanks for the high quality content!

Fuhrer king Bradley is another great example of a character whose power doesn’t come from power

I like the text boxes with your explanations but you might want to proofread them some more before you finalize the editing. Both in this video and the last one, there are typos and missing words in a few of those text boxes. Other than that, phenomenal analysis as always.

Anybody who is familiar with dbz abridged knows why homelander won't kill stan😅😅😅 if he does then that's him admitting Stan won😅

Great breakdown, thanks

17:55 The veil of control slips, as he lets “supercool” slide out for all to hear.

3:30 and I would even say Stan is beyond that too. in the last scene between Homelander and Edgar; Homelander has taken everything from Edgar, meaning he should be completely powerless. however the conversation shows that Homelander still has no sway over Edgar. meaning I would argue it's not Edgars wealth that gives him his power (although that doesn't hurt) it's his ability to think tactically 10 steps ahead and his clarity of vison that gives him power. Homelander now has everything Edgar had, and yet I bet you he will lose all of it thanks to his many character flaws.

Very interesting analysis, thank you very much for the insight!

I can't remember the film: "I could kill you" "A guy with a gun could kill me. Fast food could kill me. "

This was fantastic

This is phenomenal

Man the algorithm is straight up robbing you my man, you deserve so many more views than you’ve been getting lately stay up my boi 🔥👑

This video reminds me of one of the key differences between the 13th Doctor and her other incarnations; 13 almost always acts on the information _given_ to her, rather than actively _searching_ for clues like the other Doctors, especially 12, do.

Amazing video !!!

Why is this the first time I hear about that second channel? There's so much i've missed!

Damn, your videos are amazing!!!

It's interesting to note how Homelander enjoy people that doesn't fear him. Butcher, I kinda feel he actually likes the guy in a way of "I know you can cause no damage to me but I kinda admire how you want to". Maybe an admiration of his braveness. Stan is another example but not in a hatred but in getting bored of his childlike manners. I'm truly curious to see Stan's game revelead! His last words hinted that he has a whole timeline of events in his head. I truly don't think he's defeated and I would not be surprised if he's actually letting Homelander take Vought in order to let him get it's stock low and in the verge of backrupcy and he shows up with a new set of investors that want to buy Vought and turning it in another company, like he said: His most valuable asset is compound V. Maybe that will be the plan, let Vought sink and take all the damage and having another company with clean sleeves sugest they can make things right. I really don't know if he'd take Homelander and other Sups with him, maybe that will be a way for him ditch these troubles. I don't know if that will be the end seasion of The Boys. The fact is last season we started to see how Homelander doesn't care about what keeps a company afloat, whole departaments fired, people without knowledge running areas they don't understand. Perhaps that will another commentary in a sea of commentaries The Boys make about our world.

I like to think Stan also have used V, otherwise no one... no matter how many balls they have, without superpower would be foolish enough to test Nuclear Bomb homelander again and again

I can’t believe this channel is free

@Savage Books 26:55 *child-ish.* Enjoyed this.

great video essay how subed and gonnna benge watch your stuff

The kind of lack of agency that I absolutely hate in a story is be explained with Zeus in the movie Immortals. Zeus refuses to do anything to prevent the Titans from being released because he created a law that prevents any god from interfering with humanity, even though he himself created the law and could easily create a new law with the explanation that interference is justified only to prevent war against the gods. It was such a weak excuse for forcing a fight between the Titans and the gods.

4:44 I’m surprised you don’t mention that Stan’s secretary is more afraid of Stan than Homelander; even chasing HL. This is sharp contrast to how HL bullies several low level workers.