I don't actually hate the Smith era lol www.patreon.com/harbowholmes

I like how they establish that the local species have two heads then they realize the statues only have one. I think that's a really neat small twist.

Angel's moving and the "walk like you can see" were the only two turn offs in this ep for me

Honestly, I think the Weeping Angel's best appearance after Blink was their brief scene in the snow of Trenzalore. That was the perfect way to use them. The panic moment as they're trying to keep all of the angels in sight, while the snow is making them blink was brilliant.

Ah, so *this* is the source for why fellow fans would crack jokes about me owning a "Don't Blink" T-shirt (a Christmas gift from my mom, as it was one of her favorite episodes as well), saying "Whoever holds the image of an Angel shall become itself an Angel." 😆 Random addition but I once had a non-Who person ask me if it was band shirt and tbh a band called "Don't Blink" with a Weeping Angel as its logo has always sounded freaking awesome to me. 🖤

One of the things I liked about the angels in Blink is that they treated our eyes as viewers like another pair of eyes on the scene. What really ruined the angels for me in the Smith era is that the mystery of what the angels looked like was spoiled. We actually saw them move, and it turns out that they are still stone angels that just kind of move and stop, whereas in Blink, we were led to believe that they could look like anything and no one really knows what they look like because the second you see one it turns to stone.

So, for your point at 9:17, I’m pretty sure the soldiers weren't shooting just to feel like they were doing something, rather they were using the muzzle flashes to maintain eye contact on the Angels to slow them down, which has always been such a brilliant idea to me. Unlike with the torches or corridor lights, the illumination is purely from a chemical reaction, something the Angels can't manipulate. If they hadn't done this, the Angels would surely have overrun them instantly given how fast they're supposed to move, showing some truly creative and effective problem solving by the soldiers.

As a kid, I never understood why Amy tried to kiss the Doctor at the end. As an adult... I still don't get it.

I think I'd disagree with your 'the resolution comes out of nowhere' idea. The gravity and manipulating it had been an ongoing theme and having the artificial gravity as the resolution to both the cliffhanger and also the final confrontation is honestly pretty exciting. The crack in time has also been eating people throughout the episode. Granted, having them not deal with the crack is where I feel it cheaps out a little, but figured I'd point it out.

They added so much to the Weeping Angels concept here could they not of just invented a new monster for this?

Technically Amy winking doesn’t fail, the Angel doesn’t move when she tries it, it’s the fact she goes on to look in its eyes that was the problem (apparently)

Oh wow, so Leia isn't just Mary Poppins then..."she's River Song, y'all!" 🌂

1000% agree with you on amy kissing the doctor. She had no right kissing him ESPECIALLY without consent. She knows that he’s aware of Rory but doesn’t care and kisses him anyway. Moffat went too far only 5 episodes in and it’s why I really struggle to like Amy

I still like the episode, even if the angels were ruined in ways.

One point that I'm surprised he doesn't talk about is that the weeping angels CAN"T LOOK AT EACH OTHER. The whole point of the ending of blink is that they're trapped due to looking at each other. But in these episodes, we quite literally see them moving while in each other's line of sight.

To be fair, you can only go so far with "looming" and jump-scares, so I can't imagine a "Blink 2" working without changing how the Angels behave and what they are.

I must admit I also really disliked how the rules were suddenly changed to fit this story

Me about a month ago: I can't wait for Harbo to cover Series 5, that one's my favorite! So many great episodes! *Monkey paw curls*

Oooo that primeval reference brought back so many memories! I would so love to watch you do a breakdown of that series!

Don't forget that this story also shows Angels looking at each other and then moving later, which tosses out the resolution of Blink.

Fun Fact: The cave sequences were filmed in the UK Cave System "Wookey Hole", and they were filmed a lot earlier than you might think. I went to visit the caves in 2008 (I was 6 at the time), and the tour guide mentioned that they were going to be used to film doctor who in a few weeks (it was autumn/winter), so Series 5 started filming a long time before it aired.

If I ignore the plot holes it creates, the pacing and directing of this episode is so fantastic that I can’t help but be swept up in the tension of this episode

The biggest failure of this episode is it breaks the very rule it introduces: The image of an angel becomes an angel. So why tf aren't they jumping out the screen at me?

Ah, Moffatt. A man that can't even respect his own canon.

the over sexualization of River, and really most Smith-era female characters, is exactly why I feel so uncomfortable watching Eleven's era of the show and is why I haven't bothered revisiting most of it. Edit: I was half asleep when I typed this. Meant to put Smith era… skipped a regen. sorry!

Seeing them move for the first time was unexpected, but definitely makes them less intimidating.

I had completely forgotten about the whole the "wooshing" was leaving the handbrake on. Would make sense if it was just the Doctor's TARDIS that made this noise. But every other TARDIS does. Even the SIDRATs in the War Games did. A classic Moffat one liner which on the surface is funny but when you think about it, it's really dumb.

Showing the angels moving is straight up a bad choice, and the "move like you can see" plot point should probably have been cut, but the rest of this story is really solid, and upping the stakes on the series arc so early in the series was an excellent way to distinguish Moffat's era from Davis'. The extra lore given for the angels for the most part are good additions, expanding on the threat and tension, and it doesn't give away too much, so they retain some mystery. The story wouldn't work without giving the angels a voice, not because of exposition, but because of the character interactions and the way it is used to put the doctor off balance. The twist of there being an army of angels, and the resolution of dropping the angels in the crack were both set up really well, as was the cliffhanger resolution. I get the feeling you still don't understand the character arcs during Smith's run. Amy acts sexual because she has attachment issues, she is trying to distance herself from Rory, because she is scared of committing her entire life to him, and she also thinks that she needs to convince the doctor not to abandon her again. The doctor feels responsible for this, which he is, and it's one of the earliest examples in Smith's run of him facing consequences for his careless meddling with people lives.

This is that story I enjoy just for the aliens vibe and making the angels a larger threat but at the same time Moffat overdoing it with his ideas does make the story feel all over the place. One aspect I personally enjoyed was the crack storyline reappearing because for me it came out of left field and showed the contrast between RTD and Moffat on how they approach the larger arc. Edit: I just wanted to add this cause I needed to think how to word it. I hate Moffat had the Angels move on screen cause it ruined the mystique of how they move. I always liked to think they moved like with earth shattering fast movements, something that would contrast their stone forms. If it had been better directed and potentially rewritten I think thay scene could have ramped the tension up if we got the briefest glimpses that their movement was very unnatural.

I thought that they stayed stone when we see them move because they were unsure if Amy could see them or not, and wanted to look but couldn’t risk their true form

I will never complain about the voices of the angels in this episode again after hearing the terrible voices they gave them in The Edge of Reality. That was actually embarrassing

Two things: Firstly, the Angels must be able to decide when and when not to be stone, regardless of if someone is looking at them because there are countless occasions in 'Blink' where no one is looking at the Angels, yet they remain stone (which furthers the idea that they can't move when we, the audience, see them either). Secondly, is it explained at the end how everyone is able to remember this entire encounter with the angels considering they were all sent into the crack and erased from time? I genuinely can't remember and if not that's a massive plothole. I know the Angels heal the crack after falling into it but... they still get erased.

one thing I personally didn't like about the angels, was them being shown moving and its for two reasons. 1. I mean its obvious what made the angels in blink so terrifying is that you never see them move. 2. in Blink and I think in this two parter here, the doctor says they turn into stone when their being watched, which would implicate that the angels aren't stone while moving, but in that scene they are shown making grinding noises and still look like they're made of stone. (edit: just got done watching it and you talked about the stone thing, welp its good to see another big brain.)

River Song got away with being over sexualized because Alex Kingston knows exactly how to walk the line between sexy and funny on the one hand and a caricature blow up doll on the other by not taking it too serious at the moments she can. Great actress. If she would return in some way, I wouldn't mind, although I'm afraid they would make her River Song again and that character arc is finished.

Thanks for commenting on River's sexualisation. I really liked the character as a kid, and Alex Kingston is a gem, but something just felt Off with her when I revisited this series as an adult. Her dynamic with 11 never felt very convincing to me, because Matt Smith was possibly the most explicitly asexual Doctor of the revived era, but he supposedly fell in love with someone who's main appeal is how witty and sexy she is? I just don't buy that this is the woman he told his true name to. Especially when he only actually meets her a handful of times, yet he's never revealed his name to any of his companions and closest friends who he travelled with for years. The meeting out of order thing is very cool, but I'd have preferred them to have remained friends the whole time.

I feel like a more polished version of this would have been a better use of the angels than Angels take manhatten, giving the Doctor & river more time together beforhand to develop their chemistry and not only uping the angels stakes with an increase in numbers but also the payoff by having them remove amy & rory.

Classic Moffat. Creates a memorable villain and just f**** it

I was watching this two-parter just today. When viewed in isolation, it's decent enough, but when watched in marathon with Blink, it is a complete and utter mess. To take a fair view of Moffat, he basically had the same problem George Lucas had; he had good ideas but liked to change things and didn't know when to stop. That image of an Angel becomes an Angel thing is a case in point. If Moffat had just left it at the recording of the Angel coming to life then there'd be no problem, but he went too far and did the Angel in the mind thing which I intensely dislike as it contradicts Blink and defeats the whole purpose of stopping the Angels by looking at them. In fact, I think Moffat himself realised that the Angel in the mind was going too far as it doesn't come up again in Angels Take Manhattan. Random thought; given the fairy-tale vibe Moffat was going for in series 5, I wonder if Amy's outfit in this two-parter was a homage to Red Riding Hood. I'm definitely getting that vibe from it!

Harbo is not a big fan of season 5 so far…

I certainly believe the Ángels are enough for just one story and that’s it. Every episode devaluates the mystery. Nonetheless they would be perfect on a episode recorded in first person or a survival horror short game.

The Graham Norton thing makes me laugh so much, every time I'm reminded of it

I bet we wouldn’t have seen the weeping angels move if they had seen a Skillshare video on staying still :/

uh-oh he mentioned Primeval, now he's gonna have to review that as well

22:30 Well as I'm sure you've learned by this point Harbo, "everyone's a critic," but personally I've really enjoyed all your thoughts on Doctor Who content, *especially* when they tend to differ from the general public. 👏

I take the “assume you can see” as, they’re scared so they’re acting more on instinct, they’re used to being frozen when people are around, so they won’t realize they can move, because they don’t expect to be able to

There seems to be two kinda Moffat fans. Ones that like both Smith's and Capaldi's runs (with some exceptions) or ones that take an issue with Smith's and prefer Capaldi's run. Does anybody else find that to be the case?

I rlly like the set up this episode does with River and the way it handles her reintroduction honestly. I just like this 2 parter

"Moffat writing one-handed." I've been struggling to elucidate exactly why I've never enjoyed River's character (and the Moffat's treatment of his female companions), but this really hit the nail on the head.

I loved that you referenced Primeval, I always felt the show was a lot more underrated

I think the Weeping Angels would be work better if they were treated like other Doctor Who villains. What I mean is many of the stories aren't just about the villains, but have more going on also. The previous Dalek episode had World War 2 and the doctor, or the first Cyberman story had a human antagonist. The Angels' next appearance somewhat tried this, but I'd like to see more attempts with them.

Honestly, this is when I gave up on the series as a whole.

The whole "walk like you can see" thing is the angels instincts making them act differently. They can move, but their instincts make it so they can't quite tell if they're observed or not. This is litterally a line in the script

oh no, this video contains the mage of an angel, thanks Harbo

Interesting video. An excuse I have for when the angels are moving is that that isn’t their true form- they’re actually still. It’s just that the lights are rapidly flashing so they’re changing extremely quickly, image by image, so it looks like they’re moving. So we still don’t know what the angels’ real form is. The Aliens can inhabit angels, which is why the Statue of Liberty comes to life. Also, who cares about whether any of this makes 100% sense, it’s Dr who, just pretend it does and suspend your disbelief!

Maybe there's a painful or energy draining consequence if the Angels try to move when they can't, and the angels in this story hardly have any energy to begin with, so their being careful with what they've got. It almost makes sense that if there is a force keeping the angels from moving, counteracting their forces, it could consume a lot of energy to keep them from moving

This is the antithesis of Defending the Despised. Attacking the Adored?

The way I've interpreted the whole "the image of an angel" thing isn't that images of angels literally *become* new angels, but that angels are capable of "reaching out" or projecting themselves through images of themselves. IIRC, Eleven even says something to this effect when talking about the angel in Amy's head in this two-parter. That's always made more sense to me than the idea of images of angels becoming new angels outright. To that end, I wouldn't personally consider the "images" discrepancy between this two-parter and Blink a plot hole or contradiction - one of the Blink angels *did* look Larry in the eyes, and Sally *did* give photos of them to the Doctor later on, but by that point said angels were all frozen in place because they were stuck staring at each other. That's just my take, though. The angels moving and "walk like you can see", on the other hand... yeah, no.

Mostly agree about the Angels, as I don't mind Bob and the neck snapping. I think those elements work in the context, but it would have been good if after draining power, the Angels sent a soldier or two back to the past instead. Aliens didn't try and add more to a Xenomorph, which is why it worked so well. I don't mind River TOO much, but she did come on a little too strong for The Doctor still not knowing her that well. Overall, I still enjoy the episodes, and the plot-twist is still really fun. Matt did a really great job.

4:07 Generated subtitles suggested "A Good Man Goes to War" should be "a good mango saguaro" 😂

Another issue that you didn't bring up, is that with that many angels, they are almost guaranteed to be constantly looking at each other. I mean there are a ton of scenes where an angel very clearly has another angel in their peripheral vision.

Despite it's flaws (which there are a lot), I think the Time of Angels has a great atmosphere and sense of fear to it. It's a shame that Flesh and Stone is pretty fucking bad, and really this is the beginning of the end for the Weeping Angels.

2:42 Good Lord Eleven, you got asthma now all of a sudden?

I’ve noticed something; Moffat doesn’t like writing villains. In his stories, the antagonist is usually either a mysterious or rarely seen monster, a natural disaster or a mystery to be solved. One of the few exceptions was missy, and she (sort of) became a good guy in the next few seasons. Because of this, Moffat stories tend to involve the protagonists talking to each other and the doctor either quickly saying exposition or giving a speech to what might as well be thin air. To me I feel like it’s often difficult to feel that invested in his stories because compared to the doctor who feels so charismatic and capable, the monsters are hard to root against because they don’t really have a personality and the doctor always seems to beat them, so they kinda feel the underdogs. It’s almost more satisfying when they win because it makes the doctor less arrogant.

I remember this two parter was either the first or second episode of Doctor Who I watched, and I remember being both utterly hooked and amazed by the big twists. Like, the angels were staring us in the face the whole time, the episode 1 "there's one thing you NEVAH put in a trap... ME!" speech plus cliffhanger, and the "gravity of the situation" bit all did that genius thing I love about Doctor Who where the pieces were there, and you could have put them together, and then The Doctor brings it all together in a great scene. Plus, of course, the added mystery build up for the finale was cool

I still think these episodes where good. Honestly think they improved the angels in this episode. Only negative was seeing them move. For me it was after this they started to get bad in my opinion

In my opinion (before even watching the whole video :/) I think the 2 series 5 weeping angels were both brilliant. I honestly think there was only maybe 3 parts that people can be angry about (and even some of those I disagree with). It certainly was different from other doctor who episodes but I think actually didn't negatively effect it. They probably are: 1. Seeing angels move - honestly this was a terribly unneeded part of the episode and really served no purpose. 2. Angels speaking - although personally I didn't care about (and I think it adds extra spookiness to feel that the Angels are using someone's voice box/cords to use their voice) 3. The whole 'don't look in the eyes of an angel' thing that really doesn't add much to the episode other than just adding an extra 'quirk' to the angels I've heard people complain about how the angels were defeated being bad, which I personally don't understand (maybe someone could shed light), or how in the original release there was an advert that appears when the doctor was doing the whole "there's something you don't put in a trap" speech. *I'm gonna actually watch the video now xD* Edit: forgot about the "walk like you can see" scene :/ yeah thats terrible :/

Personally i think it’s under rated, I didn’t know it was that popular

4:48 Oh hi Iain Glen, didn't know *you* were in this story!

I'm glad I'm not the only one annoyed at the Angels moving while we can see them. Blink was so clever because we never saw them move either, just like you said, as if we're another pair of eyes. This was my first interaction with Moffat becoming increasingly lazy and quicker to hand wave something just because he wants a specific scene or outcome. I'm glad he never got as bad with it in Doctor Who as he did with Sherlock.

13:32 But isn't that why The Tsuranga Conundrum failed?

"Overrated?" I feel like I only ever hear people saying how it ruined the Angels by making them move. If anything I think it's unfairly criticized for being a good idea that didn't just copy what worked before. (Plus Amy winking DID work, she just got distracted after...)

1:47 She did say to the doctor through the security footage that she "could do with an air corridor"

Maybe blinking resets the image of an angel in your mind thing. When both eyes are closed, the angel in the head gets reset, so since no one in blink did the one eye at a time thing, it never occured

as a kid this was my first impression of the angels and they still stuck with me as terrifying and incredibly cool, as a kid stuff like the 'wall like you can see' bit doesn't even really stick in my mind, the core blink and you die was still always there, when you get to analysing a kids tv show like its art, it will always get pretty goofy at times, even though i do enjoy all dw reviews

Would love to see you talk about primeval

Sorry, can someone explain to me why winking yo avoid blinking wouldn't work?

I love this story but yeah the image of an angel stuff and the "act like you can see" doesn't work at all. I like that angel coming through the cctv tho, that's a cool thing for them to be able to do.

You’re forgetting my other least favourite recurring trope of the Moffat era. The stupid lore reveal that nobody needed, wanted or asked for, that ultimately adds nothing and gets quickly forgotten about. This week: have you ever wondered why the TARDIS makes that noise Me: No….. Moffat: Well I’m glad you asked because the reason it makes that noise is because the Doctor always flies it with the brakes on! Me: Oh Fuck off! Join us next week (or indeed a few seasons) when we ask, Why do Daleks say Exterminate? 🤦‍♂️

The idea of angels killings soldiers so they could rip out their cerebral cortex and create a version of them to communicate with was a neat idea in my opinion. It showed that the Angels aren’t just these creatures that are always hungry for energy and just want to send you back in time to feed. There’s that insidious intelligence behind them that they’ll do something so morbid to trick you or to communicate. I would’ve just preferred Angel Bob to have just been over the radio rather than the Angel talking to the doctor at the end of the episode , but that’s just my personal preference

A Doctor Who fan with negative opinions that actually delivers them in a calm, well thought out, and respectful manner? That’s rarer than a decent Chris Chibnal episode 😜 I kid, I kid. I missed the last few videos as....well, work exists lol. Nice work as always my dude

I remember one of my family friends spotted that the Doctor's jacket reappeared in that one scene.

The time erasure thing is actually really well done in Whatever Happened to Sarah Jane. It also has the Graske.

Always thought them talking was a bit weird and ruined the mystery

I didn't know this episode was so liked, I always wasn't a fan of it because of what it did to the angels

Sorry, I just can't agree. It's got its flaws but this was the 2-parter that blew my mind - unlike the previous 2 eps that had been appalling IMO. The direction of the entire opening sequence is absolutely spellbinding.

11:47 we know that when an angel comes out of the photo they become physical, so maybe the doctor just assumed angels ambushed him

It's a prime example of how some monsters are most effective when they're used once. Moffat's other great villain creation, the Vashta Nerada, just wouldn't hit the same if given another episode beyond the Library.

When River gives The Doctor the coordinates to get to her, she specifically states “oh, and I’ll need an air corridor” hence why “she can fly through space” unlike the example you give here to imply it’s a plot hole. The Angels in Blink were, in The Doctor’s own words, near the beginning of this two-parter, “scavengers, barely surviving” and as The Doctor (and the audience) only had Blink to go on in terms of knowledge of The Angels, it provides an opportunity for Moffat to expand on how The Angels work. They are his creation, and it makes sense he would wish to expand upon what we think we know about them. In this two-parter we are told that they are being restored via the radiation from the crashed ship, hence why they are more powerful than the ones we encountered with Blink. That explanation may not work for everyone, but it’s good enough for me. I suspect you just aren’t a fan of Moffat. And that’s fine, all art is subjective at the end of the day. Personally I loved this two-parter, despite my own nit-picks but then I could find nit-picks about any episode if I looked hard enough.

I am a big fan of Series 5. It is in my five top five favorites series. I loved Matt Smith as The Doctor, I love Amy and Rory, I liked just about every story. I even like Time of the Angels/Flesh and Stone. However, The Weeping Angels were one of the greatest villains of all time, but they should have stayed as one-off villains, like the entity in "Midnight". As Moffat proved (twice!), the more you know about the Angels, the less frightening they became. And now they are in the hands of Chris Chibnall. God help up.

My Grandparents couldn't get passed series 5 also is it just me or does every new showrunner make it feel like a new show. They rarely make references to the previous season because after series 5 they just forgot.

I'm definitely in the former category where I constantly overlook and frankly don't even notice the bad in shows and can just enjoy the good parts

Honestly I know it messes with stuff but I just. Chose to headcanon that this episode didn't happen like this. I haven't decided if I should pretend it didn't happen at all, or if I should just pretend it obeyed all the rules established in blink, but I'm not accepting any of the changes as canon because they're just. Bad.

The doctor says "but you're getting married in the morning" or something to that effect

I never liked this episode, he changes so much with the Weeping Angels that he may as well have brought something new to the table. It feels like we rarely see two parters about anything other than the Cybermen or Daleks so having something new and unique just for it would have been great. Something like the Vashta Nerada. I really loved Amy being unable to see in this episode, it adds so much tension and really makes her vulnerable in a way we can intimately understand. Unfortunately it was kinda the only good bit :/

This ones a really mixed bag. Angel getting into Amy’s head, cool. Angel Bob, I actually really like, star of the episode for me. “Walk like you can see”, nonsense. The handling of the angels whole thing, moving really fast when not looked at, terrible. There are too many angels, the protagonists in reality have no chance whatsoever, in the episode they are constantly surrounded, therefore not looking at x amount angels, therefore dead. You SEE it over and over again, characters not looking at them. And yet they don’t move. Blink probably has similar moments, but you can suspend your disbelief so much easier.

Time for a Primeval Harbo series?

When I first started watching Doctor Who as a kid, I was watching this series come out concurrently with Season 4 reruns on BBC 3. In fact Sarah Jane Adventures was my first experience with the Whoniverse 3 years before I even started watching the show. Two episodes really stand out in my brain vividly from back then, those being Partners in Crime (first episode I saw) and the two parter talked about here. Something about this really stuck with me, and as a kid was actually kind of scary. But looking back it really does have lots of contradictions and flaws to the original weeping angels introduction, which is by far the scariest and best use of them.

Just sayin that river is litterly the 3rd last time we see her from her pov, idk if u notice but it gets dialed down as it goes on.

They wasted River Song in my opinion, why is she constantly playing catch up to the Doctor?

All these primeval mentions really make me hope that one day itv realise their mistakes and bring it back