But clones grow up 10 times faster than normal kids, and the benifit is you can train them for war since childhood

@@wile123456 2 times not 10 unless we're talking spartti clones which were inferior to human stormtroopers

@@wile123456 Also even if they do if you have a whole galaxy pumping out kids your will never be able to get so many clones. You could if they expanded the operation to more planets tho. But one planet cloning will never be able to out birth a galaxy of people

@@wile123456 Yeah and keeping those kids in civilian life boosts the economy as they create wealth.

If they will replace the clones, it should be for droids, because they are true disposable.

Do you seriously believe plutocrats would care about “ethical ramifications?” Besides, you sabotage yourself by dismissing the best options possible over something silly like “ethics” when you can put inhibitor chips in the brains of clones.

@@Redactedredacted5837 a chip that already is fading and has drawbacks. By the time of BB, clones were already resisting orders and questioning. One clone in the Kanan comic while hunting Kanan intentionally destroys his own ship because he realized what they were doing was wrong. Order 66 psychologically fucked up the clones bad

Ethical ramifications. Yet the empire still embraced enslaving other species.

@@neofulcrum5013 Well, you know, when the first Hague Conventions (1899) were written, there were still places where slavery and serfdom was mainstream. Even before, kings and their generals were following unwritten rules of warfare. It was expected from them to treat people somewhat right (although who qualified as people varied from century to century). We can easily compare Empire, and it's people, to the Third Reich. Although brutal and treating its citizens as means to an end, their main demographic still could enjoy a plethora of rights others could not. The main difference being that the Empire has *_Space Technology_* and their leader is an egoistical sadist and not a delusional maniac.

Darth Sidious: "I'm very concerned about the ethical ramifications about using an army of slaves that I commissioned to fight an intergalactic war that I engineered now that I have used them to crush my enemies and massacre the Jedi youngling. I don't want people to think I am some sort of monster."

The biological attack arguement is a really solid one since the separatist used a shit ton of carefully constructed viruses, and plagues. I know at least a few were specifically targeted at clones.

Exactly what the British Empire practiced.

The other side to them soaking up potentially radicalized men and women though is that many of them still ended up radicalized, but also got the Empire's training before defecting and using it against them. I think the lore makes it seem like that was a bigger issue for pilots than troopers, but it definitely happened across branches.

@@CassiusDrake In the novelization of Episode 4 we get a conversation between Luke and a friend of his that implies there's basically an Imperial Army-Rebellion pipeline, they basically say they're going to go through training, then look for a chance to defect; that might be just outer-rim lack of investment in the empire, but it suggests that the empire was indeed training the rebels; someone in the rebellion was doing some real slick stuff

@@Edge-wx7hv Hilariously, it often went the same with with equipment as well. Numerous Imperial R&D Programs would ultimately result in products that were very closely associated with the Rebellion... most notably the Nebulon-B Frigate and the X-Wing Starfighters. In Legends, an Imperial Admiral expressed frustration about always destroying Rebel ships that the Empire had paid for.

Commandos trained storm troopers and probably purge troopers/were purged troopers themselves. I think ARCs had a similar outcome

The Scar Squadron seems to be the ideal canon example of what you mean. I don’t think the timelime matches up but it’d be cool if they fought the bad batch.

@@GreaterGrievobeast55 Interesting, but I would like to see a story or a show that shows the empire's good side and not the cartoon villains we keep seeing all the time. Like I.M.P Relentless.

Oh yea a mix is def the best answer but palps just wanted humans

They did in legends when clone got too old they were put through the dark troopers project becoming incredibly tough fit and skilled Cyborgs ( in legends the dark troopers were suits that people wore not droids )

A good analysis. I do think keeping cadres or elite clones would have been very useful though. The empire had an issue where many of their best joined the rebellion so special forces groups made up of loyal highly trained clones would have been a good call. I do agree that the empire couldn't be saved after Endor, they lost both their leader and heir apparent at the same time without a royal family or government structure to make a new heir.

This makes zero sense to me: The threat faced by the Republic was much, much stronger than the Rebel Alliance while being pretty much the same thing- a rebellion. The Confederacy was a rebellion but with much better industrial, economic and military capabilities than the Rebels. Due to that, the Republic had to fight massive battles on all fronts, all across the galaxy. Even the Capital World of Coruscant wasn't spared. That just means that the Republic had the quality of troops while also maintaining decent numbers to engage a powerful enemy throughout the galaxy. In my view, a smaller but better trained military force is a much better alternative to deal with Guerillas than a large, conscripted army who don't know what they're doing for most of the time. The creativity, adaptiveness, combat awareness and prowess shown by clone troopers and commanders is worlds ahead of that displayed by the Stormtroopers. I think the training received by Stormtroopers was less practical and more propaganda lessons- kind of like what the Soviets had. As for the policing part- here's a great idea, how about hire actual police and paramilitary to do that instead of the army with sectoral military garrisons to assist in case shit goes out of hand? You know, like most modern countries do. The police and paramilitary can be regular people recruited locally. Also, considering the fact that you're an evil, genocidal empire I think it'd be more sensible to hire totally loyal clones who will carry out orders without question with minimal cases of defection instead of the Storm troopers. The faceless thing is just stupid since both wear total body armor with helmets that cover their faces. Hell, the Clones showed more individuality than the Stormtroopers with the war paints on their armor, tattoos, personality, etc. So, yeah, in my opinion there wouldn't have been debacles like Hoth or the Death Star- actual open battles (something the clones excelled at even more)- had the Empire maintained cloned forces. While the guerilla warfare aspect could've been taken care of by specialized clone battalions, Clone Commandoes and ARC troopers. The Empire would even be able to add more armor and mechanization to their forces since they had access to the combined military-industrial output of both the Republic and the Confederacy making quick response even better with better air support Edit: Some other points I thought of are- decreased chances of infiltration since all of your army is essentially the same person (so Luke wouldn't be able to disguise himself as a Stormtrooper anymore) The point the video brought up about Clones being overtrained and not being flexible is easily refuted by their performance on the ground and the fact that the enemies of the Empire have 0 technological research so they don't need to be fearful of new enemy armament suddenly changing the training requirements. It all depends on the training regimen, really which I believe was pretty good considering how well the clones performed. Another overseen fact is that Clone troopers have been tested against Jedi, they have fought and overwhelmed Jedi like Pong Krell, for example, or the assault on the Jedi Temple- this is another useful trait since the Empire made it its mission to eradicate the galaxy of force sensitive people.

You said it Any threat The clones threats were droids, separatists and then Jedi thats its Stormtroopers had to be police and find ALL threats not just the ones standing in front of them Try to imagine a clone doing crowd control 😂 or the check point in episode 4 Clones have no social skills

@@bobbobsled8843 that's probably the key bit there "clones had no social skills" they were incredible fighters that kept up with the likes of the Jedi and as a purely military force were superior in every way, but as a policing and garrison force they would have deeply struggled. That and there's no "my husband's a stormtrooper so let's help him out" thing going on to increase morale and support among the population.

@@bobbobsled8843 You didnt even read the comment above yours did you? Theres literally no reason why the army couldnt be clones and the police forces couldnt be recruits or conscripts…you know like real countries work?

Arent stormttoopers suposed to be elite troops? I mean xou vould isrf human as Garnison, grunts and clone as sttike teams, army

@@giftzwerg7345 Not all of them. It depended on the unit.

Forgot to add: Stormtroopers: seen by the Empire as meat machines.

"This helmet, I can't see!" - Captain Rex

The Imperial Army and Navy (and Stormtrooper Corps) can also influence the indigenous humans of the planets they are garrisoning by interacting with them saying how many opportunities the Imperial Military has given them such as traveling the galaxy and a secure paycheck (there are definitely negatives to these types of interactions a prime example is what happened to Luke Skywalker in A New Hope)

A Star Destroyer offers way more control than an army of clones, it took the Kaminoans ten years to develop a few million man strong army, which could only garrison a few systems without having to heavily rely on conscripts and police forces. In the same amount of time the Empire created a fleet that could control the entire galaxy.

@@arthurtroy7392 lot of good that did when people got tired of being scared

The Tarkin Doctrine is founded on the idea that the Empire doesn't have the resources to hold the galaxy with tactical superiority alone. Star Destroyers may be impractical from a cost to tactical usefulness point of view, but the Empire having thousands of seemingly unbeatable ships that can and will glass a misbehaving planet has likely prevented countless would-be rebels from taking up arms.

@@arthurtroy7392 the empire should model it self off of thrawns tactics big bulky ships are nice but when your entire fleet is big bulky ships and the other guy is using faster, more agile, better shielded ships it falls flat

Have money for A or B not A and B

Regarding training, I think TI should have gone into more detail. Concerning your point about veteran forces, I just want to clarify that you aren't mixing up training with experience. As you said there are plenty of examples of veteran forces performing extremely well, but is that because they've been trained for 10 years? Or have they seen a few months of terrible fighting? You can't really call a force "veteran" until they've seen ample field service.

With you all the way. I still stay strong that clones are way better than human soldiers.

And I think that the question of wich army is better is simply not relevant. They were both the product of their times and answered to different needs. The war against the trade federation was a serie of proxy-wars fought across a large number of different world on planetes that were generaly distant from the imperial core. That makes a force that is small, nimble, highly trained and highly coherent with a streamlined logistics very efficient. And moreover the Republic had not had a standing army for centuries and its citizen seemed to be pretty opposed to the idea, a conscription was simply not politically feasible. And the other hand the imperial army was pretty much an occupation army, made to keep the order across the galaxy and to fight a protracted counter-insugrency war. A high volume of low-quality troop is thus better called for and it was also a usefull sociological tool in the fascist reconstruction of the galactic order envisioned by Palpatine.

Training doesn't produce veterans, actual experience does. All you have to do is look at, say, firefighters. Someone attending a professional firefighting course might have several months of training and will certainly know more on a theoretical level than someone who joins a volunteer department and has perhaps 10 days worth of formal training. But if they met and the former has never been in a fire outside their training while the volunteer has been in the heat regularly, the latter is considered the veteran of the two.

I totally agree with this, I don’t think the empire made the wrong choice as the clones were centralized and it would cost a lot to constantly get new clones due to their degradation due to them being aged rapidly. Saying the clones were not a greater military than the storm trooper core is something I do disagree since the fact is the clones were trained by the best warriors of the galaxy whose entire lives since birth were in a culture of honor and fighting the ultimate challenge, death. We can see how the mandalorians when they first encountered jedi quickly adapted to overcome what the jedi had. So they certianly did this as well with clones. If you look to geonosis the clones were being introduced to war they had to adapt. However they adapted tk their situations and such…in terms they were the perfect army to fight the droid army. However to maintain garrisons on planets they would be to costly to maintain were as stormtroopers could be recruited where their needed and still be brainwashed by training to be faithful servants of the emperor.

Ironic that Jedi generals fostered these feelings of individuality in the clones, when they were made explicitly to follow through on one order with zero hesitation. Imagine discovering who you are as a sentient individual thanks to your commander who you trust to lead you and your literal brothers through hell time and time again for years, losing many comrades...just to turn on a dime and gun them down. The mass trauma the clones got from Order 66 is another reason they were retired.

As the old adage goes "The Republic made Clones into People, the Empire made People into Clones.".

In the time it takes to train 1 batch of Clone Troopers, you can train 10 batches of recruits (assuming 1 year from recruitment to first assignment). In practice, you can probably train 20 batches of Infantry recruits in the time it takes to grow and train 1 batch of Clone riflemen (infantry OSUT is 22 weeks long).

Depends on if the raised recruits CAN be trained an armed to be every bit as effective as the Clones. For vast majority of them, this wasn't the case.

@@robertagu5533 I've seen this thrown around A LOT, yet never seem to address specific things : How, exactly, is the clone more effective as recruits. I've seen tons of claim that clones are superior to conventional recruits, but how so, or, most importantly, whether these superiority even made that much different in a real open conflict to justify massive increase in resources require to create one?

They should been replaced by droids.

@@engelsteinberg593 On that, I agreed.

i was thinking something similar, and also the clones came into the war as saviours of the republic when the war started,and when that objective was done they no longer serve a purpose only being economically expensive

You should watch redlettermedia's top ten vader facts, our boy palpie was anything but spendthrifty

Who shot him? Stormtroopers couldn't hit the broad side of a bantha.

@@pseudonym9599 han, with chewbacas bowcaster. That being said i don’t think he counts cause he’s a first order trooper

You explained this SPECTACULARLY!!😆🙌

It didn't harm the effectiveness. If we look at Stormtroopers vs Rebels (Not main characters), lore specifies that Stormtroopers are actually quite well trained and are pretty deadly.

@@Agherosh indeed. When the plot armor isn't around, so long the Stormtroopers were decently trained under decent trainers, they could be a good force to be reckon with. Really, the main flaw they have comes from the Tarkin Doctrine and incompetent leadership. Relying strongly on causing fear to the enemy can only do so much until your enemy just gets tired of it or manages to overcome it and fight back by exploiting weaknesses they have. Coupled with a leadership which a chunk of it was composed of incompetent, self-centered, glory seeking and very prideful officers who sometimes got the job through nepotism rather than personal merits meant that the overall effectiveness of the army could be lower than it should

This is simply inaccurate. Tarkin Doctrine _was_ effective. Terror tactics are effective, see China, the Soviet Union, North Korea. It did not have overwhelm the enemy with quantity tactics, it had a tactic of using quantity for screening and protecting quality. The Stormtroopers were some of the most elite forces in history, perhaps every single soldier isn't as good as the Clone Troopers, but it was more than 100,000 fold the numbers of the Clone Troopers and had core elements that were better than the average clone. Stormtroopers in training completed often even more grueling trials than those introduced to the clones, expected to win or die under the supervision of old clone officers, this included completely free mountain climbing on Cadia, where recruits falling to their deaths was not uncommon and one would be told to push on regardless, constantly shouted at by the training officers. The Stormtroopers when in any conventional engagement simply wiped out the Rebels methodically, continuously, these troops were overall of close to similar quality to the Clone Troopers, while being much larger. The Empire focused on quality _and_ quantity. TIE Fighters were the absolute best pilots the galaxy had ever seen as an overall fighting force, the academies of the Empire were above any other in galactic history in this regard, and many of the best fighters in the Rebellion were defectors of the TIE Fighter program, yes the ships were mass produced, because they weren't meant to be heavy fighters, they weren't meant to engage capital ships, they were meant for small patrols and screening/interception as a support force against enemy fighters so that the capital ships can open up. The Empire could not occupy the entire galaxy absolutely at all times, one must understand. Even though it had trillions of troops _just_ to garrison Star Destroyers, the galaxy was much, much larger than the Empire could reasonably occupy all at once. It instead needed to _discourage_ rebellion by showing it as ineffective, by demonstrating that it did not have a chance. Further, in terms of the overall war, the _only_ reason the Rebellion won was due to the Emperor's death, destabilizing the government and throwing it into civil war of succession. The Empire was logistically unassailable to the rebellion, completely secure in its position no matter how many times it rebuilt and lost the Death Star. It could simply build it again, because it was that much logistically superior it didn't even really matter what tactics were used so long as it wasn't purposely trying to lose. The rebellion could only strike where the Imperial Navy and Stormtrooper Corps could not be when covering the entire Galaxy.

The deathwatch feared the gar they feared a army of jango fetts

And all those other clones were less skilled, less intelligent, and less effective in battle than the clones made from Jango, and also prone to "clone madness". Those other clones were so much less effective compared to the Kaminoan clones of Jango that cloning was seen as irrelevant or worthless after the Empire.

@@rookiedrifter4273 Ehh, that's not entirely the case. Thrawn saw success with his cloning efforts. Granted, those books came out before the Prequel movies clarified things, but one of the clone sources was Baron Fel, one of the best pilots in the galaxy, and he absolutely was 'effective'. In fact, the entire point of using the clones at that point was Thrawn needed a cheap, fastly grown army, and their longterm health was irrelevant so long as he strategically succeeded.

Great arguements! Thought about some of these aswell, especially the aging "problem". Some correcting: *Drastically *Practically *Because *Superior However, overall your english looked great! I'd only tweak those words into correction and same with the commas and dots, but that's all!

@@DarkAgent Thanks for feedback!

English is a tough language especially because many words that sound the same can have different meanings and spellings. It's not uncommon for even Native English speakers to misuse the word "to" for example. It's a minor thing and is usually cleared up with context, but when you want to emphasize "more" of something, the spelling "too" is used. For example: "too much," "too specialized," "too small". "Too" can also be used as a synonym for "also" or "in addition to." For example: "I would like that too" or "I want to join too".

Also consider how well a clone trooper, who's been trained in only battle, will handle civilian populations where any one person could be a rebel hiding a blaster. Clone troopers are basically worthless in peacekeeping. Stormtroopers have been civilians themselves and therefore can understand civilians better. Those years of growing up teach valuable lessons in how society works.

He didnt forget about it, he stated in the video that this still wasn't a good enough attribute since the cost of sustaining, equipping, and training such soldiers was still an immense burden on the state.

@@CharliMorganMusic The problem isn't that they wouldn't have medicine, they'd have to make a specific vaccine. It's that someone could figure out something to attack their genetic composition, making them vulnerable to it. If one is vulnerable, all are.

@@mechcannon Good thing the separatists invested in robotics and not chemical warfare. It almost happened a few times in the clone wars but the rebel would've definitely figured that out and it would've be how the empire fell instead of the death star exploding if the empire didn't make the transition.

Darth Sidious may have ended the Rule of Two, but he's still as paranoid as any adherent of that rule. the marksmanship of the stormtroopers is specifically so any traitors can't shoot him in the back because that's what he expects out of literally everyone (or at least that's my take)

Clones missed all the shots when aiming at the bad batch. Also stormtroopers did fairly well when not engaging main characters/Jedi.

A bunch of Jawas in ANH found out the hard way that Stormtroopers can shoot well when they hit the weak points of the Sandcrawler.

I think that's what the Empire should have done; stormtroopers as the basic military while training a small set of clones into special forces.

Well, it has basislijn been confirmed that clones served as elite-troopers, at least in the beginning of the transition. In the Bad Batch we've seen the former ARC-troopers training and leading squads of TK-troopers.

I think you are forgetting the other TIE Variants, except the bomber that was basically turkey shoot

@@marseldagistani1989 the interceptor was faster and hit hard, but basically the same armor thing. Stuff like the Tie Advanced saw only isolated action, as it was still in the prototype phase when it was destroyed/stopped. The empire took the CIS philosophy of war. Cheap, mass produced army

The TIE is light, fast and manoeuvrable, as well as having punchy laser cannons. It can outpace its Rebel contemporary (the X-Wing) easily, without the weight of a hyperdrive and shields to slow it down. Add to that the academy-trained TIE pilots, and you have a completely serviceable fighter for your new galactic power. The lack of shields means little when it's going to take one or two more hits, maximum, and the lack of hyperdrive is entirely intentional when it is always going to be deployed from a dedicated carrier (Star Destroyer, etc etc) or the Gozanti-class, which it can attach itself as a "parasite" fighter.

@@comradetachanka8872 On one hand, correct. But individually it was inferior in almost every aspect, TIE's were trained and deployed to swarm an enemy because they were mechanically inferior to damn near anything in space. I mean hell a modified outdated freighter (YT-100) took superficial damage and was able to outpace, outmaneuver, and basically destroy squadrons of them by itself. Anything the TIE faced 9/10 times was going to be individually superior, but it was cheaper so it was deemed a fair trade; speed doesn't mean much if your enemy can take the hit and dish it back out (look at japanese Zeros vs Wildcats in ww2).

@@CascadianRanger 1 how's Cadia? "Your generic TIE grunt is just plain suicidal. And the TIE Defender jockey is bloodthirsty. But the TIE Interceptor pilot, he's suicidal and bloodthirsty. When you see a squad of those maniacs flying your way, you'd better hope your hyperdrive is operational." Kyle

Fully mechanized units is probably the highest quality option, tbh. After all, they can be made dumb enough (or weird enough) not to ever rebel, don't have the disease problem clones have, much better logistics than clones and less requirement of equipment (since they can have integrated weapons and have their skin be armor, technically one could try to make clones like this too). Not only this but can be deactivated during peacetime (or generally when not needed) and cheapely mass produced. Plus, they don't have to be humanoid, meaning you can optimize their form for warfare. That said, all of this can be done with a genetically modified "clone" army too (albeit maybe the lack of bioweapon weakness may be more expensive to make). But people see this things with robots more feasible.

@@CharliMorganMusic Roger Roger!

A good example of what you're talking about would be the infamous Pals Battalions fielded by the British Army during WW1, where all the men recruited from a town or neighbourhood would be formed into a single unit, with the rational that they would all know one another and thus work well together and have higher morale. And this was initially true, until they started suffering the horrendous casualties of the Western Front and then their morale would crash hard as they saw friends, neighbours and even family dying all around them.

Yeah I'm tired of the Stormtrooper jokes. Honestly they weren't that bad in the original trilogy, and making Stormtroopers butt ends of jokes in universe is the worst possible fanservice. I wouldn't say their as skilled as Clones, but I really want them to be the Elites again as they were said to be in the original trilogy. Hopefully with the reveal of Imperial army troopers as the actual regulars of the Imperial military from Solo, we might see some better troopers in the future. The Mandalorian is the the worst offender by far. That's mostly due to how bad the writing was sometimes, but in the season 2 episode 7 the Stormtroopers literally don't miss a single shot against random pirates, and dispatch 20 of them in 5 seconds. The next time the Stormtroopers fight they miss every shot at the main characters and practically just commit suicide every time they're near a ledge.

@@MistahFox That's the weakness of Dave Filoni's writing. He likes to make jokes when things are supposed to be serious. Also, Stormtroopers only hit things in the Mandalorian when they need shots to bounce off the main character's armor. Whereas in the OT, they were akin to special forces or marines, since they have great accuracy AND can pretend like they're missing when they're really just herding you towards your doom. In the OT, they were special forces, but in the eyes of some EU authors and Dave Filoni, they're bad shots, because the audience can't remember a few lines from Princess Leia and Grand Moff Tarkin saying that the Stormies let the heroes go on purpose.

Also, during the time of the mandalorian, the empire fractured into local warlords, so quality might have took a massive drop with them just recruting anyone that can hold a blaster forward and not too many readily avaible veterans

HA. This is a funny joke, an veteran clone trooper is nothing to laugh at, even with their old age they can still kick your ass.

@@jacktobias6513 But it's easier to kill them since they're past their prime.

And outside of Order 66, the clones were primarily trained against droids, not fellow organics.

I think the stability effect of a conscripted army with volunteer storm trooper corps is what the Empire was going for. By using regular people as it military force the boot pushing down on you suddenly belongs to another person and not some faceless biological machine. Moreover, the one doing the stomping is now implicated in the Enpire's crimes. These soldiers will now be committed to ideologically defending the Empire and its actions because of how that reflects upon their service (consider american soldiers defending activities during Vietnam as an example of this phenomenon). The imperial army and storm trooper corps make it harder to drum up opposition while also creating a base of loyalists willing to defend the empire both on the field and in civilian life.

this is the real right answer. clones volunteers and droids each have advantages that can be used to their fullest when in conjunction with each other.

@@volodymyrboitchouk here is two points you should consider 1)just like Spartans and Astartes Clones are symbol of victory against CIS and, if properly employed, a massive boost to morale of basic troops around them. "We're saved, Clones are here!" 2)Clones usually have no remorse or second thoughts when crushing rebellions, separatists, independence movements and so on. Again, just like Astartes and Spartans.

the economic standpoint is part of the military standpoint. and ultimately what the empire needed was a galaxy-wide garrison/occupation army. not a small elite fighting force. also you don't need clones to be the elite, replace them with imperial noble troops (knights essentially). cheaper than clones but just as if not more elite, with a wider recruitment pool and longer service period. as for a laywered system, i would put paramilitary recruited humans in there. they are canonically weaker than B1s individually and more expensive. but would be good for propaganda purposes (reducing unemployment and give a human face to the empire), then above them have a larger number of droids as an immediate backup with an organic command structure (both planetary and system level). and then lastly you have your 'noble' class, backed up by elite droid models and potentially clones, but have it open to all children but have very best qualify and become part of the social-military class.

@@TheArklyte in the bad batch we see that at least some of the Clones actually seem to have a very strict honor code and will refuse to follow orders even under the influence of the inhibitor chips. So the remorselessness of the clones may be overstated. Also, victory over the CIS may not be as popular a notion as it at first seems. Its prety clear that former CIS worlds wont like then and even planets where the Clones did a lot, like Ryloth, were resistant to imperial rule and the presence of clones didnt seem to improve relations much. The clones were closely tied to an unpopular war and the Jedi that were now largely reviled around the galaxy and blamed for the suffering. We also see in bad batch that non clone soldiers didnt seem to hold the clones in that high a regard.

The writers. Stormtroopers are Iconic to the franchise so they keep shoving them in everywhere. For the Original Trilogy we can excuse it because the events of the movies are major events and locations where the Elite Stormtrooper Corps would be stationed (The Death Star etc) but everywhere else should see the Imperial Army. We only got to see them in Solo, and we even got to see small units of Stormtroopers supplementing the Imperial Army implying their more elite status separate from the standard Army Trooper.

I’ve always considered The ”Imperial Army” to be the branch of the service that operates and maintains Imperial surface vehicles and defenses. I could see them operating more like mechanized/motorized infantry rather than the Assault troopers.

@@ArmouredProductions Yeah between that and the fact that the vast majority of the time we see them, they're going up against extraordinary people who happen to by the main characters, they're treated like the Empire's mook footsoldiers, a role that should have been given to the Imperial Army. Though there have been a few writers that have showcased how capable the Stormtroopers are. Just not in the films or shows. For example, the second book of the new Thrawn Trilogy has a Stormtrooper Captain PoV character and through his eyes we get several instances of Stormtroopers being capable and even bad ass. In fact at one time several off-duty Stormtroopers get ambushed by a larger group of escaped prisoners and win despite not of them having their armor or full gear at the start of the fight and being caught off guard by the attack.

@@ArmouredProductions -- While it's true that the REAL reason is due to stormtroopers being iconic to the setting, I still wonder what the _in universe_ reason would have to be. Is it just as simple as the Stormtroopers were put on Star Destroyers and the Army wasn't?

I was also considering that Stormtrooper training had varied quality depending on where they trained and who their trainers were. There could be a chance some Imperial Academies had incompetent trainers that didn't train the soldiers well enough for their duties

But this can also be done by normal troops. If you have a planet that is mostly sand, or a swamp, or a tundra the troops your recruit from the planet will have a different skill set and tactics then a planet that is just a big city.

One of the Kaminoans' selling points for the clones was that they were more adaptable than battle droids.

@@eeliejun This is true, but considering the training process on Kamino, a clone would be ready for combat after their training twice as fast as a regular soldier in a specific scenario. Clones also have the added advantage of having their entire training cover many aspects of warfare which makes them versatile, where as regular soldiers are best trained in a couple of areas. I'm no longer sure if this is canon, but the 501st was quickly trained to become decent fighter pilots when the need arose whereas you might be lucky to produce a few competent pilots from a large pool of conscripts, and since you have a larger pool, you might end up with flying bombs rather than anything resembling a starfighter. However I will give you the benift of the doubt and say solider defending their homes will prove equal or superior to clones simply because of home field advantage. Umbarans and the primitive people of some frozen moon were both able to really give the clones a run for their money if it wasn't for the fact that the Jedi were giving them good support.

@@eeliejun I'm agree on that, I just think the argument about the incapacity of the clones to be adaptable is false, and it is in fact the exact opposite with a good training. And the training on Kamino is probably one of the best... But the effectiveness/cost is probably not in favor of the clones when you can pull recruit from a galaxy full of specialist for every terrain and warfare style.

I like your reasoning. Also, the Empire did keep some loyal clones to lead the recruited Stormtroopers, so they got the best of both worlds; clones for hard strikes and leadership roles, Stormtroopers for meat-grinding and occupying worlds.

the empire only lost because the emperor died, if he survived endor even with rebel victory the empire would still controlled the galaxy, it was lack of leadership and unity not the quality of troopers the doomed the empire, the empire didn't need to fight a war which clones were superior at but maintain control of a pacified galaxy for every stormtroopers dead, 1000 were there to replace them at a cheap price, sheer numbers would have kept the empire alive if not for the loss of it dark heart

dont forget the one hidden on wayland

the Gonk has spoken But yeah, the Empire couldn't keep up using a clone army for their purposes due to the cost being high enough that it was causing problems to the economy, and that's not counting on the moral implications the populace would throw them flack for and possible side effects the clones may go through. Changing to using a conscripted army was most ideal for the purposes of policing a galaxy as they don't need to pay a lot of money to make it, don't need a lot of training to prepare them for the job and it gives the people job opportunities to help them recover from the poor economy, satisfying their needs and building a good sense of patriotism

@@granmastersword What i dont get, and im hoping you can help me with, is why people call it a conscripted army when the movies and the books ive read seem to show there wasnt much conscription, and that it was volunteer based

@@gonkdroid4603 I guess that's just for convenience, being an easy to understand term to refer to a governmental army

They really could have though, but the empire thought fear alone would suppress a galaxy forever, they wasted so much of their money on Big "scary" things like Super ISDs, Death stars and AT ATs and cheaped out on all the things that mattered: Regular ground armies, Fighter craft, support ships etc.

@@KaiserMattTygore927 fear if a foolish tool to alone use against people with the same technology as you - it would be something if the rest of the galaxy used idk squirt guns or if the empire demanded all guns be ceased etc but that was never going to happen

That facility on Bora Vio was abandoned and out of commission. In Legends, the Empire did use clone soldiers from other facilities, such as Centax-2. But canon seems to completely disregard this idea. The only clones in Imperial service after the Clone Wars were aging veterans and instructors.

.....hours....? Is this new facile Disney lore or proper lore? I seem to recall space travel was far from instant in the Expanded Universe. Swear a bunch of books were just han and Leia fucking off on long ass journeys :D If you can traverse the galaxy in hours why is the galaxy so decentralized, why is the outer rim utterly uncontrolled by central governments, how was the Imperial Remnant, the Chiss, the Sith (like 10 times) able to hide out in the Unkown regions?

@@shacklock01 Because the Republic was decentralized by design. In the OT, most central and Outer Rim systems answered to the Empire. Even the Hutts. Even in KOTOR, it only took a few hours for the Republic to send a fleet from the core worlds to the Outer Rim. It also took a few hours, maybe even just one hour, for Luke and friends to travel from Tatooine, an Outer Rim world, to Alderaan, a core world and a founder of the Republic.

Are you sure, the dominion industrial capacity is extremely high. Three major powers had trouble dealing with a 2nd rate power that was a dominion member. I can’t imagine if they actually fought the dominion as a whole with its full resources, industry, and manpower.

I'd say we lack enough information to say for sure, but the Dominion isn't to be scoffed at. Just a fraction of their forces that were trapped in the Alpha Quadrant proved a major threat for the combined might of Federation, the Klingons, and the Romulans. Not to mention that the Dominion are masters of genetic engineering, and have been seen to generate viruses capable of decimating entire planets. Given enough time they could probably easily generate a virus capable of destroying the Clone Army.

@@CosmicFearUkulele i was talking about how powerful said weapons are, if i remember right it was eckhartsladder who did a comprehensive analysis on how powerful the weapons are between starwars, star treak and warhammer 40k.

ehhh - better ships is a datable - given they never found greater challenge to show up their worth besides big large space triangles that often get avoided or ambushed

Dingus, the word "stormtrooper" when used properly just means light infantry with access to small artillery. WW1 Germans found in trench warfare the direct fire guns they had left over the napoleanic warfare worked best at point blank range. All modern small unit infantry tactics, you know the ones involving: initiative, independent thought and creativity are based on the German's experiment.

Clones are way more blindfolded

Not if you actually watch the films

Canon has turned them into jokes, in Legends they're pretty much a threat. Though yea the failure of protecting the Emperor and Death Stars certainly made galaxy cease to fear them.

@Kyro Sinclair also people still fail to realize Stormtroopers were purposely missing Luke and the others because Vader or Tarkin wanted them to escape

@@DrNefarious-rw1dm i mean..they still had some goof moments in legends but holistically they definitely had more going on for them giving the shit they had to deal with.

@@GreaterGrievobeast55 They were definitely better than the troopers on the Tantive.

Spoken like a true authoritarian

USA did nothing wrong

@@drasticallyfantastic7164 Uh no-

The Empire did plenty wrong.

@@dwnkaomwn3953 rebel propagandist

Alderraan… wasted resources on a big space station only to be blown up with a straight down ventilation shaft to the power core. Yeah they did nothing wrong except being the most incompetent force of the galaxy.

There were no such thing as tough rebel bases, the main issue was to find these rebels and they were masters in running away and guerrilla tactics. Clones wouldn't help much in these cases because they are as terrible in such fights like the stormtroopers. Umbara or the better example jabiim shows that

The stormtrooper call isn't actually part of the main imperial army it's its own separate thing outside of the regular military command structure answering directly to palpatine and imperial high command

I don't know if you know this already, but there were giant simian predators on the forest moon of Endor that hunted the Ewoks, which is used to explain away how they were already so well versed in ambushing and harrying targets the size of an AT-ST, as well as why they lived in tree huts.

@@Ms.Strahl I didn't know. Even so, to fell those trees, haul the rope and trees to their destination, lift them in the air at branches over the path and pull them sideways to another tree so they can swing *all while undetected* is a massive undertaking which must have taken years to complete regardless of their experience. The length of rope alone required for one end of the tree must have weighed a few hundred kilo's. A low-ball estimate of the treetrunk would put it at a ton. Even ignoring the trip to their destination it would take hundreds of Ewoks to lift them and they should never be disturbed while doing their task. Not to mention hide these trunks and their ropes in the treeline so they wont accidentally be spotted despite being placed right next to the road.

@@TheDemigans You know, thinking about it that way really shows how overpowered the Ewoks are in the climactic ground battle. The Ewoks are at least partially inspired by the VietCong who were adept at setting up small traps in similar circumstances, but dealing with the size scaling we are shown does stretch believability. Given your estimates, the background lore and what we see in the movie, I wonder if the Ewoks didn't just lure the Imperials into traps that had already been prepared long beforehand for the giant simian predators instead.

I disagree with the assessment of palpatine being lucky I can't really think of any aspect of palpatine's plan but come down to luck