What do you think of Eternalism? If you liked it remember to sub and follow me on twitter: twitter.com/smoughtown Check out my Grineer Lore video: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/ibKodbqqv6-pYps.html

Maybe Balis didn’t specify where the portal sent us but just to the void which is the soup like energy of all timelines smushed together in one point in space,this is where the man in the wall with his own goals,sends us to the zaramen in just the right time to make sure we make our pact

I always believed the “but you can send them back to hell” refers to the zariman, I thought it was fairly straightforward, and the universe craves dynamic equilibrium, not dissimilar to our own world with how stuff like temperature works, so the universe trying to replace you, but seeing you’re not available, but not dead, swapped you with the closest thing it had, something that matched you, and it grabbed the drifter, who seems, oddly aware of the whole situation, waking back up in the zariman and reliving the man in the wall event is being swapped with the drifter, your inevitable reconstitution sort of like corrupted Vor, and the drifter somehow also knew how to switch back, Bc they take the attack from the lotus and explain it to the Tenno afterwards

I’m still somewhat confused about Erra. Lotus’ memories of him clearly state to her that he died in the Old War. Which makes sense as Erra did nothing throughout the long time between the Old and New War. The conquest would have been a greater success with the Tenno still asleep. So where did he come from? Where was he all this time if he did not die? Was he or his corpse perhaps taken by Ballas, to be used for his plans? Does this also explain why Ballas took so long in approaching the Lotus? or why Erra was so subservient to Ballas in the quest? Resurrecting a sentient is clearly possible. Perhaps Ballas was waiting for the Lotus and the Tenno to once again learn for themselves then true nature of the Lotus as Natah, planting the seeds necessary to bring the Lotus to his side. There’s also the theory that the Man in the Wall manipulated everything since Albretch’s venture into the Void. Allowing his finger to be severed, which leads to the possibility of void travel, leading to both the Zariman incident and the use of Sentients since they would have never been considered were it not for their void weakness. Which then leads to the Old War, Lotus’ rise to power, and thus to the Tenno’s revolt and the fall of the empire. Which then leads to the all the things that happen in the game, all the way to the point where the Pregasa opens the void portal allowing Wally to bust out through.

To add to your theory about the Tenno possibly being immortal, I would propose an additional theory that Wally made them partially into Void Energy-based lifeforms

So with the inclusion of the concept of Eternalism, so does this now imply the specter of the Tenno that greets us randomly in our Orbiter is another timeline where the Man In The Wall has fully possessed the Operator and is using it as their personal avatar, now that he's freed from the Void?

I like your better than most other people about WF lore. Mainly because you have a script not random chatter and know to stick to the point. Keep it up :D

Hey, good to see you back, also I agree with what you said but what I speculate is its basically Eternalism, the Operator died and the Operator didn't die because that's how it's in the gameplay, you are shot but you come back after a static, also in some quests like The War Within and in The Sacrifice the Operator only segments, if you failed then they will be seen drifting in the void as a cutscene. That kinda relates to that handshake scene with Wally, when you make a deal you see many versions of you collapsing, which signifies that they are dead and the Operator in that timeline do not exist, and in their stead some other version overwrites their presence but it's the same Operator. This is always been subtley said to us but they didn't want or intend to explain it till now or till Duviri comes whenever that is. But the only problem arises in The New War is that instead of the same Operator, a completely different form of him the Drifter replaces him which is the paradox as he is not who the Operator is as we know. Ballas knew that somehow or someway the Operator will come back but to avoid that to happen he used the void portal to permanently seal our replacement so that the Operator is stuck in the void and never coming back, until then Drifter came in. Also maybe Wally was the one who made these two versions of our Operator as part of the deal, because we still don't know what he wants or meant, so that's still a mystery to be answered. So yeah, that's my speculation, this seemed to make sense to me personally lol!!!

I believe the question can be answered in two statements just as the Cephalon quized us on Eternalism. The Operator is dead. The Operator is alive. Both of these statements contradict each other but that is the mere power and idea behind Eternalism. The Operator is in an eternal state of being alive, dead, imprisoned, and freed all at once. So yes we did die by Ballas's hand, but we also live.

This is an amazing theory and logical explanation. Thank you for taking the time to make this great video!

I'm pretty sure the operator did die, but not OUR operator. In order to create the paradox, the Man In The Wall seems to have caused hundreds of possible realities to wither away at his touch. What kind of being is he, to destroy spacetime so casually? And more importantly.... what does he want from us?

I expected the New War to wrap some things up, but it created more questions than it answered. I hope they do something with it

A+ analysis! Really solid work, man, nothing more I can add. Looking forward to the next one.

something interesting that just reared its head, Baro made a deal with a dashing man in the void that collapsed all his other timelines. Now this of course was just a lorey way to describe syncing up baro for the future crossplay but it does seem to hint that. Similar to how in TNW it seems on the handshake all the other operator timelines fell.

When you said "You cannot kill the devil tenno but you can send it back to hell!" you explained to me everything this is why it's my favourite quote because it is true you cannot kill devil/s but you can cut their connections to our world by sending them back to hell

What if THAT Tenno dies and is just constantly being replaced be another version of himself/herself from another branch “timeline”? There are several Tenno and several branches. Sorry, i did send this before the end of the video.

This is wild- I’ve been following you for elden ring lore since you started doing it, but I just got back in to warframe after years and years away, and here you are, having done a ton of warframe lore vids long before elden ring. I had no idea. 😅

Interesting, especially when you consider how back in Chains of Harrow, Paladino and Lotus's dialogue regarding Rell and the fact that he only lived so long without stasis by permanently transferring his consciousness to his warframe, which somewhat implies that the tenno can potentially die of old age, even if you can't traditionally kill one. Kinda like an inverse of elves in Lord of the Rings, where they could die of anything except old age.

Player: "Were you killed?" Operator: "Sadly yes, but I lived!"

So since your kinda the new lore youtuber I had a question Do you think the infested is connected to the void? Like we see xaku attack “xata whisper” puts infested boils on frame but does void dmg. And idk when we see that duvri stuff in zarmin it looks kinda like a different type of infestation. We also know the orokin made the infested to fight the sentient (who were made weak to the void Just some things I’ve noticed that I haven’t heard many ppl talking about

"Did you die?" "Sadly, yes. But I lived!"

What are the songs playing in the background ? Great video by the way.

Wish you explained Archon and the dream world..as you explained so smoothly which is digestible but sadly you left the game I think 😔

I love this quest so much

I've always kind of disregarded the idea of Eternalism, unless it actually applies to different timelines. My theory goes like so; The Void is a place, energy, substance all at once because of it's nature to make the impossible possible. When you interact with the Void, you are able to circumvent certain universal laws, but as soon as you stop interacting with it, those laws apply again. The Tenno's deal with the Man in The Wall resulted in two things; 1: It made the Operator into a void manifestation of sorts, like the Void Angels. Their body is void stuff, and as such is able to ignore laws like conservation of matter and transfer visibly into a Warframe. 2: The Drifter is the Operator's physical body in mind, and was shunted into Duviri as a result of the deal. They are still the same fundamental person, but they are different in age and experiences. This explains why the Drifter and the Operator can switch places. The universe dictates that only one unique individual can exist at one given time, or it will cause a destructive paradox. The Void circumvents this rule by having the Operator (a void clone manifestation) take the place of the original Tenno (the Drifter) and storing the original (the Drifter) in the Void itself in the form of the Zariman, and later on in Duviri. Of course, you can still apply the idea that the Drifter is an alternative timeline version of the Operator, but I prefer to think of it as above. The Void does have some hold over time, but instead of Eternalism being the be-all end-all explanation, I like to think of the Void as an infinitely more alien thing that regularly circumvents matter instead of time.

With the concept of Eternalism, all questions can be answered with one word: YESN'T

Warframe lore is so confusing so bassicly the portal sent him to zariman in the void and the drifter was able to leave the void because of Lotus's hand landing there too

getting back into warframe and this quest confused the ever living hell out of me. Its like DE was a Rick and Morty fan when they made this cause it feels lot like when Rick switches places with his different selves.

Can't believe Otis Eugene Ray's Time Cube is canon

I think the tenno isn't deaf due to the void giving us power and immortality and in the beginning of act 3 we play as the operator after the events of act 1 and 2 and soon drifter starts testing that the operator still remembers the events during the new war so the tenno isn't dead but is alive in duviri while drifter is in our world

I don’t think the operator can die to be honest I think whatever happened to us in the past bound use to the void in a way that no matter what happens to us we will be anchored to life (this could be incredibly bad for us as imagine been ripped in half but not dying from it then having to wait however long it takes to reform while been in agony)

Eternalism: Yes they did. No they didn’t. Video done.

Wonder if the paracesis has an affect on the operators to delay when they get sent back into their warframe after dying

A question I have is regarding Lotus. Why does the have the power to open portals to the void and across the multiverse no less. She is a sentient like Erra and Hun. Why is she gifted with these abilities ??

pretty close to how i see it. but i dont see it as being sent to a time, i see it as both now and then are the current moment, when the deal is made to "save them" the deal is to save everyone on the zariman and the drifter, lotus in that moment aswell, with the drifter and the operator being the same person the moment the deal is made the drifter has also made the deal by proxy as they are one. the drifter also explains at dinner that he is returning, so when you pick operator or drifter after lotus is returned and the operator phases between the two the drifter is gone from our part of reality again. i see the drifter has having not been offered the deal in his zariman causing him to not be rescued as the zariman showed up out of no where, it wasnt recovered it just came out on its own un damaged even tho we have seen major damage to it twice in duviri and rells comics.

Just a thought in referance to the paracesis used by ballas on us. From what I can tell ot was originally intended to be used on sentients disrupting theor ability for adaptive defences. My thought is if the crux of the paracesis ability is to interfer with the sentients pseudo core which is a partial mirror to the tenno version. Could it be possible that the paracesis be not just a weapon against the sentients but the tenno as well on some level.

The one thing that can kill a tenno would be (ironically) time. Rell could not live forever to hold back the man in the wall so permanent transference into his own Warframe was the only option he had. So from what i get about Eternalism: there are timlines that are further or more back in time than our timeline and there are infinit of them. There is always a Tenno in a certain stage of their life, wether at the begining or the end, there will always be an equal amount were they are either dead or alive... damn thats a really fckd up concept, i could be dead in so many random instances of life and i would only know when it happens

I believe the tenno was split between universes and that he's unstable ( switching between tenno and drifter) at the end cause he's still split

I thought that both the lotus remains and the operator crashed into duviri plains/zariman, the drifter found them and took care of them, that's how he has the lotus but don't explain how he got to the orbital, and somehow interacted with the tenno while he was in a coma state "respawning", passing trough everything again to "regenerate"... that's why the operator seems to previously know the drifter but not figuring out what is going on. This or that the tenno really died, but in a "version" type of thing...similar to that illusionist movie in wich he clones himself every performance, there's even that cutscene when the tenno shakes hands...but this would be weird because the tenno that comes back is exactly the same, unless there is the "regeneration" thing here.

COOL VID.😺

Ahhh, so Balas used Lotus's power to open a void portal, I never figure that out, but did he also create a similar portal to consume the sun or was that big ship at the end responsible for that, also where did he get that ship?

Tenno puts on shades "F you.. ill be back"

My theory: both yes and no. Due to our deal with the Man in the Wall, there's only two timelines left where we're still alive, as shown by all the other operators seemingly going insane and dying until there's just the Operator and Drifter. Hell, there's even a chance that the Operator we play as is post New War isn't the one we started the quest with, but instead a replacement plucked from a "similar enough" timeline before shaving that layer off the proverbial "block". ...but nothing's stopping you from slapping the Scar Sigil on your Operator and saying Ballas gave you that scar with the Paracesis, just like the sigil's description hints your Warframe got it from when Stalker stabbed it with the War (albeit with the dubious canonicity all cosmetics have).

I think we did die but a different version of us from a different reality came back hinting at the paradox

Not sure if natha was used to open that portal, prety sure other methods could be used taking into consideration many factions have portals to the void

Is the helminth conditioned to think the Tenno are devils as well or is it that the helminth just agrees with this view?

so warframe 1999 could be you with void powers without the man in the wall and alive and still drifter as excalibur?

You are right by the way

What warframe did you guys use? I used the umbra Excalibur prime with stock colors because I felt it was right storywise

what if it’s like dying in destiny where you actually die but some void voodoo crap happens and you get sent back into your frame. and what ballas did to the operator is injure you operator

Remember. "We end, as we began"

In conclusion my operator is the child of samurai jack

Is it possible that it could create a third? the operator was taken to the void from the stab but before wasn't about use their abilities is it possible that from the 2019 trailer that was a 3rd the original? and the operator now with the drifter or all 3 had very similar timelines but the operator that came back was a the reality that they were not stabbed and the original operator became an adult in the void.

I think that when the tenno made the deal all of their timrlones collasped into 2 that way the man in the wall could better control them. I believe the man in the wall sees the tenno as his anchor, his vessel to enter the material world from the void. In that sense, the drifter is a fail safe. If the void has it anchor, it cant have tha anchor dying like rell did the last time it had and anchor. Thus, having two concise timelines effectively makes the tenno immortal has there will always be a fail safe to bring th back and there is only two outcomes that exsist as per eternalism. The Tenno was rescued from the Zariman and planted with the seed of the void, the tenno did not escape and was stuck in the void. In any case, the tenno cannot die.

4:33 so by sending us back in time he has guaranteed his defeat as in theory we can make our way back to the exact moment he “”beats”” is and kick his ass only now we will be even stronger than before I mean we can’t do anything dumb like saving ourselves (we don’t want to go doing a Harry Potter aka in prisoner of Azkaban at the end when the dementia’s are swarming Harry anyone in the setting could save him with only 2 exceptions Harry and Sirius, they are the only two that can’t save them as if no one saves them they die meaning the first time they need saving they aren’t they to save themselves because their dead) but we can show up the moment we are sucked into the portal confusing the hell out of Ballas, “”but I just inprisoned you in the void?”” Us “”I got better”” (we proceed to kill Ballas a lot and painfully to boot)

Bruh even balis said you can't kill a devil but you can send it back to hell meaning he knew he couldn't kill the character

Warframe multivoid of madness.

so if we aren’t saved from the ship we turn black?

After the operator went though the void portal, he was rescued by the Drifter, and was placed in a healing pod in the Zarimen ship. As the operator getting healed, the Drifter come out of the void to finish the job! This is how I interpreted.

Hey how are you I watch that enjoy

think ur right

The tenno did not lost the war, they got outnumbered. It doesn't matter how strong you are, If your enemy is in large numbers, you won't take care of everything in time. It's like fighting a lot of hungry dogs, you have complete superiority against them, but they are many, they are everywhere. You can defeat them all, but you can't take care of them all, while you fight the dozens of dogs, the others steal what you have to eat. And you fail. Elaboration: the tenno failed to contain the massive amount of sentients. But still alive in dojos and hidden places.

He was in duviri lool

Our Tenno can't die, he's inmortal at aome point due to the other "us" still existing.

Man in the wall control ballis all the time my theory even how he acts islile the king in the paradox wanted a throne in the trailer his arm is metal possibly like the void accident zariman took a host when they got trapped but he wants a new one like the queen tenno shows in rell control force us into hell despair take us asp well as rare dialogue tenno says he killed isah and the man in wall in the orbiter responds with "is that how u remember it?"tenno responded with a yes and the man in the wall just saying "good" before disappearing the paradox is his original home but be needed it open to escape at the end of new war now he needs form and everyone sees us as the king because the power and drifter as tenno version connection after all the king did say he wanted to check out what drifter wanted to get out of his kingdom and see so badly starting the man in the wall escape plan begginkg two of him possibly time situation there explains why he's in charge and void being obey him maybe we can defeat him and take over ourselves leaving the enemies as remmnats groups like narmer maybe I'm wrong just a theory I have others de said plot twists so we never know maybe one might not be evil like remember teshin did to us in war within to help us maybe man in the wall is escaped prisoner like we see drifemtet a void being who is desperate and needs help and suffering the way he calls us kiddo is apparently the same thing our father called us before we were tenno so maybe that's it void made go kinda crazy but he could give us more power or something idk wait to see

We died and didnt die

So he just made us more powerful lol

replay chains of harrow, you'll have some new opinion on the drifter. I think it tells us that the drifter is "the man in the wall". actually before the new wall sometimes you can encounter a bug which allows you to see your operator model inside the oribitor wall

Could it be, that the drifter in duviri, is the operator, grown to adulthood .. that then came back to the present at the end of the quest?

Sadly, yes. But they _lived!_

I honestly think the drifter is just our Tenno post time skip.

I believe we both died and didn't. I think just before or maybe at the same time we kicked the bucket we got swapped out with our alternative self. Regardless the MIGHTY SEER would protect me

What?

I hated this quest, it was nothing like I imagined or what I wanted.