Regardless if his betrayal was goofy or not, we can all agree the Big Magical Giant looks awesome Only about 50% stock remains, pick him and his honour guard up here : www.majorminis.com.au/products/big-magical-giant

"This man right here, Inquisitor"

Emperor: "You have proven yourself trustworthy to Me in this Great Crusade! Therefore I trust you with the title of Warmaster! Entrusting you to finish conquering the galaxy in My place." Horus: "Thank You, Father. I am honored of Your trust in me." Emperor: "And now I shall leave and return to Terra." Horus: "I see. You're going to help Uncle Malcador in stabilizing the Administratum and smooth things out?" Emperor: "Ohohohoho! I have much bigger plans than that!" Horus: "What are they?" Emperor: "Sorry son. I can't tell you." Horus: "But why?" Emperor: "Because I don't trust you."

Big E should have told the Primarchs that He is totally heading back to Terra so He can stabilize the Imperial government with His Best Buddy Malcador.

The Emperor of Mankind did kinda screw up with the Council of Nikaea. He basically banned the niche that he designed an entire legion around- psykers.

Damn if Emperor heard about Olympia he would most likely say such horrible things like "Good job Perty" or "Im proud you didn't hesitate to pecify your homeworld"

Glad to see Majorkill finally came full circle on Angron. From “should have been aborted” to “I totally back him.”

A video on if magnus took the emperors replacement legion would be dope, so i will continue asking. (Would also be good since a magnus model was just released)

Damn man you've changed, not shitting on angron at every chance and instead backing the Angy boy

You also gotta remember that 2 Primarchs were already wiped from history in the lore before the Heresy, so Perturabo probably feared that if he said no to the Emperors orders he would be next. This also goes for a lot of the fuckery that the Primarchs did, for they feared they would be wiped out as well

Yes, great logic for Morty: let's get Khan to back him up against chaos sorcerers, the same Khan who has dedicated, respected sorcerers in his legion

I love how everyone goes "Yeah, Angron was justified", Big E really fucked up the most with him

Honestly I still like Mortarion and his fall. His resentment of the emperor does have nuance, he's just not mature enough to rise above it. His style of war is something not suited to the imperium and he knows is as seen on Galaspar. There are some lines in dark imperium that I think genuinely capture mortarions guilt and feelings on the matter, guilt that he let the empower take him from barbarus, guilt that he had become what he hated. "I was once a champion of common people, I abandoned it for a galactic despot" he never should have joined the crusade, just like angron and kurze. Even now he hates himself almost as much as he hates the imperium and his brothers. He is an unwilling servant and that's what makes him great, seeing him lie to himself is a compelling and almost pitiable action, and it makes me love his debate with Guilliman even more. He wanted a father that wasn't a tyrant, he didn't get it, he wanted to win or lose on his own merits, he didn't get it. And he was forced to become something horrible that he hates, and can do nothing to change it, so he lies to say he isn't the foul monster he is. I would love to hear the timeline when he didn't fall, he was such a bastion of strength and resilience, and would have been a strong ally for the loyalists at the siege. I still love him as a character. And hey, he's less of a hypocrite to psykers than Russ *ahem* "wolf priests"

I think an overlooked part of Horus's fall is that he was in the Warp for thousands of years, from his perspective. Loyalist Horus and Traitor Horus were literally thousands of years removed from each other.

"Over there Inquisitor..."

I can feel the warp overtaking me

Good ol' Trazyn pulling time travel fuckery. Steals emperors children gene seed and just happens to get a perfect clone of fulgrim later. Tricky tricky.

Great to see you again Majorkill! Plenty of food for thought. The fall of Magnus is definitely the saddest of the bunch…and you’re not wrong, Angron was destined to revolt

Lorgar: When god gives you lemons, you FIND A NEW GOD!

SO MUCH T-SONS STUFF SO FAST! Now we know what Majorkills second or third army is haha

I don’t think there was ever a chance of a post Great Crusade life for Angron and Curze. I think the only real “good” option was sending them away from the Imperium to the edges of the galaxy to fight and die, like the ghost stars for example. Otherwise they most likely would have gotten the Thunder Warrior treatment since they wouldn’t fit in the Imperium way of life

Majorkills largest character arc: going from saying Angron is the worst Primarch for going traitor to actually backing him because his reason is the only justifiable one.

Perty said he was unable to forgive himself for Olympia even if others did in Angel Exterminatus. He had a complex about breaking oaths, so once he failed the Emperor, he couldn't accept it. Even if the Emperor forgave him, he couldn't forgive himself.

Konrad has his reasons, he didn’t follow the weak minded Horus he just wanted to say F You DAD.

The mere fact that the emperor had already purged a previous incarnation of the space marine experiment would be good cause to worry about their future. Soldiers are very often mistreated after war.

So from what I'm understanding Fulgrim: Self doubt got the better of him, then got corrupted by the sword Perturabo: Was desperate for affection and acknowledgment Conrad Kurze: Driven insane by his visions and nihilism Angron: His rage from the Nails, as well as being dehumanized and used Mortarion: Overwhelmed with bitterness, and was unable to admit to his mistakes Magnus: Got dicked over by Big E, thenw asn't put back together fully (as I understand it) Horus: Massive ego, and was tricked and manipulated with his pride and insecurity Lorgar: Had a crisis of faith, and couldn't accept nonbelief Alpharius: Was shown a maybe true vision that basically showed humanity and Chaos mutually destroyed, and assumed the Emp wanted Chaos dead at any cost, even humanity's

Absolute Fulgrim slander. The Laerblade had a greater demon of Slaanesh in it. None of the primarchs at this point (aside from Lorgar maybe?) knew about chaos or its corrupting power. Only the Lion, Guilliman, Dorn, and maybe Sanguinius would've successfully resisted. Any other primarch would've fallen to the Laerblade. The things anti-Fulgrim bias does to a mf

Attempt number 74: what if the Primarchs were found in order of their creation. JOIN ME MY BROTHERS!!

Imo Horus’s fall was because of insecurity about never equaling the emperor (because he was the only person he compared himself to) also he thought he was saving the imperium because he he saw what the future held. He didn’t immediately fall to chaos he just turned traitor in the beginning. The trick chaos played on Horus was showing him the actual future (40k), but not telling him who caused that future!

I like how now days you are pretty chill towards non-deamon Angron. When way back when you shat in him a fair bit. Just nice to see, but yeah only the angriest boy had a legitimate reason.

The emperor could’ve literally sidestepped Angrons’ betrayal so easily. The excuse of having already made a treaty with the planet makes no sense to me. He brought many other warlords and planets under his heel. He could’ve earned his respect so easily. One of the worst pieces of 40k history to this day.

Day 87 of asking for a dedicated series of videos detailing in depth the Lion El'Heresy

I actually really like how the final moment, Horus making his decision, is shrouded in internal mystery. Did he, at the end of his nobility, truly believe he was doing the right thing, or did he lie to himself in pursuit of ambition, just like his father?

thank you for reminding me of the verbal annihalation Jaghatai delivered to Mortarion on Prospero

I’m glad you’re partnering with 3D art guy. He’s one of the best warhammer designers. Everything always looks *chef’s kiss*

Love your channel brother keep it up

Majorkill going from "Angron is the poster child for why abortion should be legal everywhere" to "I empathize with Angron and understand his betrayal of the Emperor" is peak character development.

I just had an idea. The Chaos Gods could've used the Dark King plot point, aka Big E. becoming another Chaos God and dooming humanity to convince him to rebel. After all, Horus kept yapping he wanted to save humanity from his father. But then again, the idea probably wasn't on the menu yet.

A video of the top ten community made wholesome moments would be great

Perty is always a sad case, literally all he needed was a hug.

Majorkill still not understanding the Alpha Legion, classic

Fulgrim is such a good character. A noble dude with flaws that makes you think "what could have been" like Angron

Hmmmm.... that Big Magical Giant could probably use some MAGNETS to hold it together...

If my dad yanked me out of a glorious battle alongside my gladiator brethren and made me go boss around some people I dont know nor care about I would jump at the chance to rebel (Angron of the World Eaters)

Angron was the only one who was justified imo. The emperor used him like a tool from the beginning. And yeah I know, "he couldn't remove the butcher's nails." But you're telling me with all his scientific knowledge he couldn't have found a remedy of some kind, to either negate or mitigate the effects? Or when he developed his own variant, he chose to make them almost identical to the original version instead of making some kind of advance, less dangerous version that could've given them power without sacrificing their sanity? Reverse engineering alone should have allowed him to do that, plus all his access to warp sorcery. But no, he wanted a legion of rabid dogs, led by a mad man he could dispose of at any time. And Angron knew it.

Yes Inquisitor, this man right here.

Angron has grown on me over the years as my favorite demon primarch, actually tragic

Make a male version of the calendar now!!!!!!!

Can I just say that I really like all the not!40k names you come up with for your minis?

Magical man looks absolutely sick, but I'm sure as hell still saving up for a 1/12 scale Angron proxy. I NEED PLZ

No. None of them had a point. They were all flawed individuals and played by chaos by appealing to their base human urges. They were prideful, greedy, arrogant, vain and had ambitions beyond their standing. The emperors weakness was in treating his sons as tools, and not people, and also keeping much of his grand ambitions from them. This was never an excuse for heresy though.

Horus's fall was incremental IMHO. And it was all down to the treatment of him and his 2 fallen brothers memory by Malcador. He had there names and deeds erased and the total disregard for the surviving statue of one of them with a flippant remark about it was going to make great flooring when destroyed. Plus the creation of the council of Terra was seen by him as a betrayal to him because these base humans had not suffered and forged the Imperium in blood like him, his sons and brothers had. And these base humans tried to order him and the Legions around. His betrayal was to ensure that deeds done by him, his sons and his brothers would never be erased by someone like Malcador.

I cant remember where i saw it, or if its even real or not, but I once read someone say that Horus winning was the nearest to a happy ending humanity could have got. Horus wins and within 2 or 3 generations hes wracked with guilt over what hes wrought, but that splintering would have brought about a massive rupturing within chaos as well as humanity that both are wiped out. E "wins" and we get 10-20 thousand years of stagnation and corruption and chaos eventually consumes all humanity anyway.

A video on the imperial palace would be neat, shed load to talk about!

I always hated Alpharius's fall the most. Dude was shown a mysterious vision from a group of mysterious xenos, and just instantly believed it and started destroying a loyalist fleet within like seconds of the vision ending.

Video idea: who is the strongest mortal psyker in the galaxy in 40k

Military forces of the Mechanicum/Mechanicus/Dark Mechanicum would be quite cool

The Horus heresy would be 100% better if “chaos” wasn’t actually a thing and just Terran propaganda. You could have developed complex characters with actual reasons to rebel, and work off of that, rather than “I’m the god of blood, now you’re evil because I’m evil”

Oh is it Heresy Monday already? Where are the inquisitors when you need them?

About Angron. In the Realms of Chaos books, Angron saw the Heresy as the only wat to save humanity. I’ve heard another source stating how he wanted to die free and not live enslaved to the Emperor. Just saying, the lore and the novels would likely be better if they focused on this. It would give more dimension to Angron than just “look I’m a berserker and only live to kill*

11:35 when you try to play 4D chess on a checkers board.

The title is dangerously close to heresy

The emperor was definitely going to kill the primarchs. The Horys herasy proves they were to dangerous and a threat to him.

Video ideas: Schola Progenium explained and more videos on the Sisters of silence

Those golden models made me pause in admiration. They look amazing!!!

Heresy.

I think the Emporer knew half of his sons would fall to chaos but he didnt know who would fall (could jave been part of the deal he made with chaos when he stole warp essence to infuse into the primarchs). So he picked the strongest/most stable and emotionally invested in them and the broken ones at most risk of he let fall to the wayside. I think the decisions were never the primarchs own choices they were the avenues left to them after the Emporer has engeneered their fates to tip the Heresy in his favour. Maybe that's why there are two lost legions. .... Maybe one pimarch died/excacuted and because the numbers were not balanced the Emporer needed to kill a second primarch to ensure the heresy would be balanced (or at least in the emporers favour).

That totally not Magnus model is so so cool. Way better than anything Nottingham mafia have ever released.

Majorkill- "I'm not your dad." That's not what my mom said poppa! 😭

Since you have a semblance of backing Angron, here’s a theory video idea: The Butchers Nails wasn’t killing Angron, but gave him the Hulk treatment. Half the time he’s the empathetic Paladin he was meant to be, the other half he’s the raging berserker we see. Would he still be this overly resentful person we see in canon, or would E actually give a damn about him?

3:53. Guilliman kicks in door... "Majorkill! A word, if you would"

Horus's betrayal was entirely justified. His last name was Heresy, after all.

A video on ork vehicles would be pretty cool.

They HAD a way to make it believable, to make them have a point. But they didn't - they probably didn't think they would have to. How much of the lore is something like "This monument is dedicated to the 1000 worlds destroyed by Xenos and the 3 entire Chapters who fell to defeat them." and you're looking at that going "WHAT? Where? Who? When? WHAT?" as it is? The first three Horus Heresy Books are basically that in Novel format. They COULD have had Horus being given a "Co-Warmaster" of sorts, some weaselly little Political Hack from Terra who the Emperor needed to keep happy for (reasons), so he assigned this Hack to the Crusade to deal with the "Non-War" aspects. And then somehow this weasel gets to decide what is, and what isn't, "War Aspects". They touched upon the Remebrancers, and could have widened that - planets start to revolt against the Astartes entirely due to irresponsible Remembrancers telling lurid half-truths about the Astartes (Imagine the Remembrancers seeing an Astartes eat the brain of a fallen foe, and suddenly the Astartes are Cannibals out of ancient terrors). They could have had an entire Legion left with nothing to do because they were so efficient at their Compliances that... there was no where for them to go. Nothing for them to do. And suddenly they feel existential dread because they have nothing else they can do - and they're functionally immortal. Is this what they have to look forward to for... the rest of time? Hell, have the World Eaters be stuck out in a populated sector with no compliance actions to take, and they have to sit on their ships, with the Butchers Nails eating into their brains, with nothing to do except beat on one another because they're waiting for orders from Horus, who is waiting for the Co-Warmaster to finish something? Etc. But they did nothing of the sort. And outside of Angron, the reasons for Rebelling are just lame. Even if they weren't Demi-Gods, the reasonings would be lame.

I wonder how the siege would have gone if everyone followed Perturabo's command.

Perto was paranoid from being addicted to Mechamphetamine...👁👁

"the big magical giant" "Egyptian super soldier mech-suit body guard" I love this so much:))))))

I wish Horus was more disenfranchised before he got cut by the governor

I think it was Baldemort who argued that Fulgrim could have been the greatest Primarch, and his fall was the worst loss, and that the 'unnecessary' wars he engaged in were anything but, he took theatres no one else could, and turned his legion into a machine of conquest, able to change it's entire doctrine as circumstances demand, Sons of Horus style Spearhead operations, Imperial Fist style siege, World Eaters shock assault? They could do it almost as well as the original legion, and they could do it all.

There’s a point in saying that the big E played 4D chess with “letting” the most flawed and incompetent of the primarchs fall to chaos, so that he could better defeat them. So maybe it’s all orchestrated

Perturabo and Magnus are among my favorite primarchs. Cause they're not fully evil. Perturabo during his Olympia pogrom actually questioned one of his commanders," Did any of my sons refuse the eradication order?" And when he was informed yes, Perto said "Good....Good..." And this is coming from one of the primarchs you didn't wanna say no to besides Angron or Russ. Magnus is all over the place but he had his heart in the right place. Only thing that makes me annoyed about his lore is how he went about trying to warn the Imperium of the oncoming Heresy. He went full... not Magnus and that's how we ended up with shattered demon Magnus. Almost like Tzeentch casted confusion on him or something during the most important part of his play.

Video idea what if the emperor of mankind wanted to be worshipped as a God and had created the esslarcy the imperial cult in order to defeat the chaos gods

A video about, what if there were no loyalist elements in the traitor legions ,this would also count for omegon and magnus. So there would be no need for the culling at isthvaan and weakening of the traitor forces.. this would be very intresting to see what all the effects would be on the succes of the heresy.

Alpharius was loyal to the Emperor. He didnt betray him, he betrayed Humanity.

I'd put it like this: Makes sense- Magnus Konrad Angron Perturabo Lorgar Doesn't make sense Alpharius/Omegon ...Eh. Horus Fulgrim Mortarian I put Horus in "Eh" since I fall in with those who think what happened to the missing primarchs and the threat of the same happening to him and his legion where motivating factors. A creepy weirdo that you know is generally untrustworthy appearing in your dreams and showing you a future of your father and some of your brothers being worshipped while you and some others are missing seems pretty week...unless you have in the back of your mind an incident where two of your brothers where unpersoned and you were punished for making a scene when it happened. In that case, a lot of it starts to make more sense in terms of paranoia winning out, motivating him even for the time he was free of Chaos' influence for a bit.

Horus' fall is kind of like Malekith's fall. The two had some major character flaws that were exploited by a third party to turn them into their own cause

Last time i was this early i was born

I can't see how Mortarion had a choice after getting yeeted into Nurgle's cauldron.

Answering in a summarized way: Lorgar and Angron: yes Horus, Magnus and Kurze: a little Mortarion, Perturabo, Fulgrim and Alpharius: no

His greatest mistake is the Golden Toilet Bowl

What if the Emperor wasn’t able to reach Nuceria in time to prevent Angron dying from the High Riders? How would having one less available Primarch affect the heresy with more lopsided sides?

I think the main fault lies in biggie making redundant copies of his primarchs, and having one be a nobelbright mega-super-ultra cool guy, and the other be the shittiest of assholes. Its like he couldnt decide to do a good or evil run of stellaris so he just did both at once.

Requiring the corruption of supreme space hell to kickstart the whole thing suggests it is pretty dumb

You’d think for a genius psycher the emperor could’ve been smarter in terms of being a father even if it was just so his sons didn’t turn against him

Sounds about right... Lorgar and Angron were standing on principle, Morti and Perti were sulky, Curze was completely batshit, Horus was self-absorbed, Fulgrim was David Lee Roth, Alpharius was on a super secret mission to quadruple cross everyone, and Magnus was... Magnus.

Praised was because he banished all the Remembrancers the people who would create the art, songs, etc to celebrate the Legion then when one defied him and painted a masterwork to celebrate the Iron Warriors Victory. Perty straight up burned the painting right in front of him. Perty not being Praised as much as Dorn was entirely his fault. Sorce - Angel Exterminatus.

No, without Chaos it would never have happened and the earliest Primarchs to turn traitor were already corrupted by Chaos. Magnus, Lorgar (who planned it all) Fulgrim. Then you had Primarchs like Angron and Mortarion, who choose the traitors simply out of opportunism.

New model is dope and can’t wait to see people’s work but I’m not ready for all that if and when the emperor model comes back I’m buying that one so I don’t miss it and painting it when I’m ready

Short answer no except for Angron

In short: Angron: All reasons to hate the Emperor Lorgar: Trauma induced by the Emperor made him vurnerable to chaos, but I belive his reasons were also understable Mortarion: The biggest hipocryte within 40k, even bigger than his father Alpharius: The biggest moron amongst Primarchs Perturabo: a focking man-child which would have been forgiven or even appreciated ifbhe for once speak his mind out loud Horus: Mixed, at one hand he saw future of 40k, on the other his own ambition got better of him which Chaos used to its advantage. Fulgrim: most belivable fall to chaos due to slow snd insidious corruption Magnus: I understand why he turned in the end, but I also call it a little Malcador fault, for denying him a chance to fuse with his noble part Konrad: A second most stupid Primarch of the Heresy. He could stop EVERYTHING buuuuut noooo, I coudn't become an edge lord othewise(but suprisigly, his legion had more understable reasons to join Horus) My opinion: An entire thing could have been prevented, if few(theoretically) most inteligent beings humans history came to conclusion, that honest, open converastion about dangers they were about to face and what really was at stake. I mean, if Mortarion new the end goal, he would propably stayed loyal, Alpharius too in not idiotic way. Maybe Fulgrim would came to conclusion that his sword is possesed, if he knew such thing is even possible?