Don't Buy Long Arms Until YOU Watch This Video!! Long Arms VS Short Arms!

Рет қаралды 364,269

Күн бұрын

Today we are talking about long arm vs short arm suspension systems. I get asked about this quite often so I decided to put together some information on the subject. Believe it or not this issue is controversial! Forums are full of people going back and forth but the numbers don't lie. The tests you see in this video can be replicated at home! If you are a pro short arm guy and your skeptical then test it yourself! This is the beautiful part about suspension geometry, It doesn't lie! Enjoy the video and make sure you check out the comments lol. I expect some fireworks here and there 🍿
Also this information applies to all coil sprung Jeep wranglers. JL JK TJ XJ ZJ WJ basically all jeeps with a factory 4 link. Even if you have a DIY 3 link or 4 link, the rules for suspension geometry stay the same.
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#longarms #longarmsvsshortarms #shortarms

Пікірлер: 610

@mauiwaverider 4 жыл бұрын

I have short arms as well. It causes me to move the seat forward a few more inches.

@seabasssimpson4547 3 жыл бұрын

Heyoooo!

@sergiojmena 2 жыл бұрын

😂 😂

@israeldelabra9069 2 жыл бұрын

My legs too !

@sylvanbowyer341 Жыл бұрын

FTW!

@retired1822 Жыл бұрын

😂😂😂

@michaelsteelepix 4 жыл бұрын

Best/ clearest explanation on this topic I've seen.

@DirtLifestyle 4 жыл бұрын

Thanks!

@dansears9204 4 жыл бұрын

@@DirtLifestyle Me too !

@billcox3378 4 жыл бұрын

Agreed.

@billcox3378 4 жыл бұрын

Agreed.

@Micko7774 4 жыл бұрын

Agreed, To the point, technical and no BS. Thanks!!

@michaelwilland7036 2 жыл бұрын

I have been running the 4.5 short arm kit in an Xj for over 10 years. I have found them super comfortable and reliable at about 1/2 the cost. These bolt-in and require no fab work. ALTHOUGH realizing what Nate stated about the short arm travel causing forward/upward movement and pullback/droop, I also installed the drop brackets from rockyroad. They are super strong and nearly flatten the arms. I've never had an issue with clearance or limitation on wheeling, for me with the 33" tire. The tire nearly covered the bracket so when the tire rolls off a rock it nearly clears the bracket. I am sure there is a small compromise, like in every mod. Any higher of a lift you will want long arms. Hope this helps.

@iamoutofideas13 4 жыл бұрын

My first thought upon seeing this video: "Hey, that's the bleepin' jeep guy". My second thought 30 seconds into this video: "this is an excellent video. More like this, please".

@DirtLifestyle 4 жыл бұрын

Thanks man! Will do 👍

@kcfreeman3021 3 жыл бұрын

Yeah, production is much more entertaining than bleepin jeep.

@joesears773 4 жыл бұрын

Great info! Just installed a long arm kit on my wife's Jeep and it is amazing!!

@mattgrecko2820 4 жыл бұрын

Great explanation of long arm vs short arm, definitely worth the watch.

@stevejimenez2859 4 жыл бұрын

Awesome video Nate, the wheeling community needed this!

@stonewallcrippen2237 3 жыл бұрын

I'm absolutely ecstatic to come across your channel friend:) so refreshing to see truly unbiased, factually accurate comparisons on ANY topic on KZfaq! I'm glad you brought up the strength increase with a short arm suspension, I would add one more item to the "pros" list on the short arm side which I've not seen anyone mention and that is Unsprung Weight. The DOM tubing most use in a long arm setup probably weighs 3-4 times what a typical factory short arm setup. Just something else to consider on your respective build.

@chillis28 4 жыл бұрын

I’m a very non Mechanical, you explained that very well.

@Turrnaroud 4 жыл бұрын

Love this video. got a 3 link in my jeep and will never go back to short arms. they take a little bit of getting used to driving with no sway bars but they don't fail to impress people. especially if they look under it and know what they're looking at

@davethrasher4124 Ай бұрын

The amount of times I refer back to yours and Kelly's old videos for information when building my Jeep is wild to me. I absolutely LOVE the fabrication videos y'all have done, and refer newer wheelers to them before almost any others.

@beepeesoup 2 ай бұрын

Dude, what a great review. Already bought my long arm and am now super happy I did.

@raybates3119 3 жыл бұрын

Love your channel. I have a TJ with a 4" Skyjacker lift on 33's and a LJU Rubicon with a 4" Skyjacker lift on 37's. I get so much information from your channel. Thank you!

@cbmck79 4 жыл бұрын

Clear and concise explanation, best Ive seen. Keep up the good work, you're onto something.

@robertmahar3462 4 жыл бұрын

Very well done. I fell more educated and i understand the geometry of the suspension better now. Thank you

@awhoot1 4 жыл бұрын

Dude that’s the best description of the geometry behind Jeep coil lifts I’ve ever seen 👍🏻👍🏻

@DirtLifestyle 4 жыл бұрын

Thanks brother 👊

@underthelibertytree712 4 жыл бұрын

Best visual/description I've ever seen on this topic. You deserve way more subscribers.

@DirtLifestyle 4 жыл бұрын

Thank you! I hope my little channel continues to grow 🤘

@DataRew 3 жыл бұрын

I am your stated target audience and I really appreciate what you have to say here, and the fact that you back it up with hard numbers and a discussion of geometry, instead of hyperbole and "I THINK." This has just significantly raised my standards on what I'm going to put in to replace the 'Meh' 4" lift that is on my JK (From when I bought it. It didn't even have a lifted front driveshaft installed, which I did this past weekend.) I will be looking for videos by you on your lift kits!

@mxk6104 2 жыл бұрын

the laser demo really helped me understand what's the difference is. good points about what the tradeoffs are. Thanks!

@zmotorsports62 4 жыл бұрын

Great explanation. I've been a fan of long arms for many years and have been criticized for it but have been very pleased with the performance, especially on my JKUR. My ride quality is FANTASTIC because my control arms are nearly parallel with the ground and thus allowing the springs to absorb the movement rather than transferring it into the control arms and chassis. One thing you didn't mention that I feel is important is that with long arms the actual bushings will have less twisting for the same amount of vertical travel compared to a short arm with translates to less binding of the bushings as well as longer life of the bushings. The only negative I've had with mine is on a few obstacles the mounting points on the frame have been catch points and when trying to get up and over them the tires will unload and therefore lose traction. It hasn't been a deal breaker but I drive accordingly minimize this scenario. Overall great video and explanation. Thanks. Mike

@JonnyBgooD007 2 жыл бұрын

Best explanation I ever heard regarding the long/short arm debacle.

@StormbornJKU 4 жыл бұрын

The only reason I went short arms is because I didn’t want to pay for the welding on the long arm brackets. I look back at it all the time wishing I just went long arms. I will in the future/on my next build

@GdaySport 4 жыл бұрын

A lot of sense spoken in a short video. Thank you!

@jimray1111 3 жыл бұрын

Dude! Your videos are spot on. I've watched quite a few and loved every one. 1980 j20 - bought 3 years ago. Going into the shop soon. You've given me so many great ideas.

@destralop8981 4 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the info Nate, this helps tremendous on my understanding about the 2. Great video. Happy trails!

@davesbrewing 4 жыл бұрын

Great job explaining simple trigonometry, with out using any math. This is why you have one of the best off-road channels. Thank you.

@DirtLifestyle 4 жыл бұрын

Thanks man! Big compliment 🤘

@seancaron3323 4 ай бұрын

Suspension geometry is my favorite topic in the world. The physics don’t lie! Nothing to even argue about 😂

@toomanyprojectstx 4 жыл бұрын

Phenomenal explanation on this subject. THANK YOU NATE!! I Love your videos and they explain so much! im so glad i subscribed to this channel.

@DirtLifestyle 4 жыл бұрын

Thanks for watching!

@NathanKKennedy 4 жыл бұрын

I rarely comment on videos... This was the most enlightening video I've ever seen on this channel. Thank you so much

@DirtLifestyle 4 жыл бұрын

Thank you for watching! Glad you enjoyed it 👍

@bullrunoverland7022 Жыл бұрын

I watch this video often just to refresh and remind me it's all worth the time on all the fab work.

@timryan8174 4 жыл бұрын

Well said Nate! Very well spoken & I like that you talk in a way that everybody can understand. 👍🏾

@DirtLifestyle 4 жыл бұрын

Thank you! Glad you liked it!

@fwschnaar3179 4 жыл бұрын

Thumbs Up Nate… I’ve been debating the Drop Brackets for my 16 JK mostly a Daily Driver… Going to get some now 👍

@senditschutte1762 4 жыл бұрын

Dont have to worry about arm length when you're on leaf springs👍🏼

@stevej6824 4 жыл бұрын

sendit schutte not necessarily true. Look for and read my other comment about leaf springs. Spring arc is comparable to arm length. But kind of the opposite. The more arc to a leaf is like having shorter arms. The more you compress the spring the more horizontal axle movement you’ll get.

@senditschutte1762 4 жыл бұрын

@@stevej6824 yes but still my comment was about not having to worry about arm length because you don't have any... Which side of the spring your shackle is also plays a big role, front shackles shove the tire forward like a short arm while a rear shackle moves the tire rearward

@stevej6824 4 жыл бұрын

sendit schutte very true. Having front shackles is similar to having short arms.

@Bodeesafa 4 жыл бұрын

Leaf springs are for poor people 🐸 ☕️

@bradywilliams2666 4 жыл бұрын

@@Bodeesafa Keep It Simple Stupid

@ryano8613 4 жыл бұрын

Same length as drive shaft, less walk, less camber/pinion change through travel. Try pushing a wheel barrow over a bump at a higher angle. Done. Awesome vid.

@romanjeeper_official 4 жыл бұрын

Great video. Im new to the jeep community and trying to do as much research as i can before i upgrade my JL.

@DirtLifestyle 4 жыл бұрын

Thank you! Glad you found my Channel 👍

@davethewelder1 2 жыл бұрын

Xcellent video, your description was spot on.

@ameyers67 4 жыл бұрын

Nate, I'm loving the content you make. Keep it up!

@DirtLifestyle 4 жыл бұрын

Thank you!

@bowl0noodles 2 жыл бұрын

Good explanation between shorts and longs. Great video.

@JustNobodyButME 4 жыл бұрын

I've always had trouble with long arms. My shirt sleeves were always too short.🤣 Just got my first jeep (a jku) and doing research for what I want to do with it. Thanks for the explanation. 👍

@tonyreese9292 Жыл бұрын

Nate I love your videos I'm kind of new to the four wheeling scene about 4 years I got an 84 Dodge ramcharger my dream truck and I've learned a lot from you watching you and how you wheel and your our column educational videos explaining how things work and why you did what you did keep it coming it's good stuff

@zakikahl6904 4 жыл бұрын

Really appreciate a video like this, you make it so easy to understand stuff like this and it’s incredibly helpful. Love that channel

@DirtLifestyle 4 жыл бұрын

Thanks! Glad you enjoyed the video!

@rayantar3181 4 жыл бұрын

Thanks for taking the time to produce this! First time viewer...subscribed!

@DirtLifestyle 4 жыл бұрын

Awesome! Thanks for watching and welcome aboard!

@jdsilvaca 4 жыл бұрын

Great video. I went from a short arm, 4.5 inch lift to a TNT long arm 5.5 inch lift on my 97 XJ. NIGHT and DAY difference.

@rclinchaib1853 3 жыл бұрын

I'm looking forward for long arms on my jk 07 2dr. great explanation and it makes lot of sense. .. thanks for sharing. Awesome!

@kyawsannoo9513 4 жыл бұрын

Thanks for your kind explanation about long arm vs short arm.

@speeddmin 4 жыл бұрын

You did a great job explaining this in PB&J terms about anyone should be able to understand.

@DirtLifestyle 4 жыл бұрын

Thanks!

@bradythomas1997 4 жыл бұрын

By far the best channel on KZfaq! And way to represent us PNW folks 🤙

@DirtLifestyle 4 жыл бұрын

Thank you!

@johnmcwade222 Жыл бұрын

Just found this video, fantastic video explaining the science behind it. Thank you sir.

@1111Overland 4 жыл бұрын

Wow, really nicely done Nate. Great description, fantastic demonstration.

@DirtLifestyle 4 жыл бұрын

Thanks!

@matthewlamb3207 Жыл бұрын

Perfect video to answer questions as I start my research into my lift kit dreams!

@gordowg1wg145 4 жыл бұрын

Some good comments there! ALL forces on the arms are along them, except in the rare cases where some other linkage is attached, as they are pin-lointed Example of the latter is rear arms with the suspension springs and/or dampers mounted part way along them. For the suspension chaps, you may like to compare this to 'jacking' in suspension geometry. There's another aspect of the ride quality you appear to have missed - as the tyre hits the bump, there is also a braking force applied through the longitudinal links and the arm angle and length will affect how the chassis reacts to it, in a similar way to how a larger diameter tyre rides over irregularities better. You are close to it with the large rock - the rear axle is pushint he chassis forward and the angle of the arms will affect how that force is passed to the front axle.

@JeepJeep234 4 жыл бұрын

I still run short arms on my JK, but I have Rancho front correction brackets and the metalcloak DB3 rear drop brackets. My control arms sit almost flat with a 4 inch lift.

@billylee2312 2 жыл бұрын

Excellent video!! Very well explained! I prefer short arm for mud and long arm for everyday use trail riding and rock crawling.

@BEEFnuggs 4 жыл бұрын

Well done Nate. It's evident a lot of thought and prep goes in to your vids.

@DirtLifestyle 4 жыл бұрын

Thank you!

@BecksArmory 4 жыл бұрын

This is a great video! I totally agree with all your major points. Very well put. This is very valuable for the Jeep community.

@DirtLifestyle 4 жыл бұрын

Thank you!

@goodluckcult3157 4 жыл бұрын

Great video Nate! I dig the white board. It would be been cool to see some side by side real world comparison... say send the short arm jeep up an obstacle and then the long arm and show the real physical difference... but I digress. Good job mang!

@jbproduction323 4 жыл бұрын

Your videos are always very informative. I have the ability to make long arm kit for my wj but lack the knowledge of the geometry side of things but your videos are helping to change that. Thank's

@DirtLifestyle 4 жыл бұрын

Glad to hear it! Get creative man! If you use the basic principles from my TJ streach series your going to love the handling characteristics. Good luck brother 🤘

@butchpalmer1860 2 жыл бұрын

I was on the fence about a LA kit until I saw this video. Just finished purchasing and installing a Metal Cloak LA kit. Definitely a difference and I should have done it a long time ago. Great information and great videos, keep up the good work.

@gorillahd9247 4 жыл бұрын

Excellent video with lots of good info. Well done sir!

@Tombstone6709 4 жыл бұрын

Always giving great advice, glad your channel is a thing man, keep up the awesome content!!!

@DirtLifestyle 4 жыл бұрын

Thank you!

@erikp2510 3 жыл бұрын

Great video very informative and great visual explanation with the laser!

@caseyherbert6487 2 жыл бұрын

Wow fantastic explanation, best one I’ve found thank you

@mattbarrett41 4 жыл бұрын

An excellent explanation of the two platforms. Thank you. Very informative.

@DirtLifestyle 4 жыл бұрын

Thank you!

@janpur1417 4 жыл бұрын

Very well explained! If one is changing the vehicle suspension he should know about physics dealing with FORCE, PIVOT and LOAD. I saw a FJ cruiser with front extended travel suspension with an adapter on outer tie-rod getting bent due to lack of knowledge about physics.

@ryanworkpettey9881 2 жыл бұрын

Great video, nice looking Bilstein's too!

@sandralutz-rodriguez2864 2 жыл бұрын

always super helpful how you explain stuff Nate!

@davyleupz 4 жыл бұрын

Great info, the only thing I can add from experience is to get the flex from a LA you would need to do steering and track bar. I’m still short arm in my XJ and the stock track bar mount on the axle side is my limiting factor on down travel. Just my 2 cents. 🤷‍♂️

@jaybowles8221 4 жыл бұрын

Fantastic job on the video. Information is to the point and well explained.

@DirtLifestyle 4 жыл бұрын

Thank you!

@TheBibleExplorer 3 жыл бұрын

I have the 2 link long arms on my XJ and it's a night and day difference from the short arms. Smooth as silk on the trails & with all my spinal surgeries, the smoother the better, making it where I'm able to now get back out there. Great info and video brother 👍

@2S1L3NT 3 жыл бұрын

Currently having lower back herniated disc issues I fully appreciate this comment 💪

@anthonycoffey816 4 жыл бұрын

Great video & explanations, I always figured long arms would help scrape over obsticals & keep things off your driveshafts

@DirtLifestyle 4 жыл бұрын

Thanks! They definitely do that as well. 👍

@jeremy8715 4 жыл бұрын

I’m going with RC long arm + Johnny joints. Should be a decent setup. I may consider RC Vertex shocks if they fit TJs.

@duneattack 4 жыл бұрын

Excellent vid, Nate. Keep up the good work

@DirtLifestyle 4 жыл бұрын

Thanks!

@LJ_Jeff 4 жыл бұрын

That was the best I've seen it compared and explained. Also your video quality blows my mind!

@DirtLifestyle 4 жыл бұрын

Thank you!

@LJ_Jeff 4 жыл бұрын

@@DirtLifestyle you are very welcome.

@3doutdoors313 4 жыл бұрын

Great videos! I’m hoping for a highlight video of the road to Sema 2019 and maybe some video of Sema itself. Keep up the good work, thanks.

@DirtLifestyle 4 жыл бұрын

Thank you!

@mikehoffman3690 4 жыл бұрын

Best explanation I have seen on this topic. Thanks.

@DirtLifestyle 4 жыл бұрын

No prob!

@575conbon 4 жыл бұрын

It's reassuring to see someone that wheels as hard as you do running a body lift. I run a 1" on my daily drive sierra 1500 and a 1" on my suzuki samurai, I like the added fender clearance you get with minimal increase of COG. Added bonus was the clearance made it easier to drop the transmission in my truck to rebuild it, and when swapping an auto trans into my samurai it gave me more room so I had to "massage" the tunnel less.

@WillometMotorFab 4 жыл бұрын

“Rock or Something” Excellent!

@DirtLifestyle 4 жыл бұрын

Thanks buddy 🤘

@tay5658 4 жыл бұрын

Sounds like an MRE

@josiahlinquist4043 3 жыл бұрын

@@tay5658 love the instructions 😂

@paulroe4646 4 жыл бұрын

Love you videos brotha!!!!! Full of knowledge and detailed explanation. Much appreciated 🤘🤘🤘🤘

@DirtLifestyle 4 жыл бұрын

Thanks buddy 👊

@Jackmerius_Tacktheretrix 4 жыл бұрын

This is why I love the suspension on my 03 Land Rover discovery. Long arm suspension and the arms are level. Never understood why jeep keeps using those short arms. Dont get me wrong I like jeeps too, but Land Rover definitely has the edge as far as suspension.

@leoameoso820 4 жыл бұрын

Very true and a very good explanation Nate. Good video!

@DirtLifestyle 4 жыл бұрын

Thank you!

@tedhargiss1056 4 жыл бұрын

Good stuff Nate. Appreciate the details you cover. I have heard guys in the forums blast long arms for the reason you mentioned - getting hung up on obstacles. In fact, I went with a short arm because of that argument. I have never taken a Jeep of road, so I didn't know. I wish I would have heard your analysis before I bought it. Your content is great. Keep it up.

@DirtLifestyle 4 жыл бұрын

Thank you!

@Jarod1941 4 жыл бұрын

Anyone on a forum blasting long arms is an uneducated newbie simply making silly posts to get their post count higher. If you've ridden both short and long, on numerous lift heights and wheelbase lengths, you'll know what I say is true. There's a world off difference, even for a daily driver/non-wheeler. Great video Nate. Your content is the best on the Interweird. Keep up the great work. 🤙

@oldfordcarsandtrucks 4 жыл бұрын

man, you just do a great job splainin this stuff !please keep it up. tanks

@DirtLifestyle 4 жыл бұрын

Thanks for watching!

@salami99 3 жыл бұрын

I learned a metric ton from you. Thanks alot.

@craftsmancollaborative 4 жыл бұрын

Very informative! Thanks for putting this one together 🔧

@DirtLifestyle 4 жыл бұрын

Thanks! Happy to help 👍

@richarddannibale7131 Ай бұрын

Like the kaiser j10. Owned 2 Cherokee wide tracks and currently own a project 46 cj2a and a 07 2 door jk

@rexfuji 4 жыл бұрын

Excellent video. It's a modern take on the old reasoning of putting a reverse shackle kit on a leaf sprung rig in regards to the axle arcing forward under compression on the short arm kit.

@DirtLifestyle 4 жыл бұрын

Absolutely! You definitely get it! 👍

@idahoxj 4 жыл бұрын

Knowledge bombs dropped. Great explanation of the basics!

@DirtLifestyle 4 жыл бұрын

Thanks man! 🤯😂

@rockitoffroad6752 4 жыл бұрын

Love the new intro Nate 🤘

@casey197930 3 жыл бұрын

Dude this was exactly what I needed to hear ty. I don't want to try long arms on my 2djl but drop brackets seem to fit my preference better than short arms with a better ride and mechanical advantage.

@Georgia4Low 4 жыл бұрын

great video and clear details, thank you. I have a better understanding of the long arms now.

@trevin1691 4 жыл бұрын

If only teachers/ professors were as able to articulate their knowledge as you have! Thanks!

@DirtLifestyle 4 жыл бұрын

Thank you! This is a giant compliment and I appreciate it 👍

@Buoyant_Thoughts 3 жыл бұрын

What a great informative video. Thanks man!

@tellysavalas138 4 жыл бұрын

What bumper is that? Great video. Super easy to understand. Well done

@clarkdrago 4 жыл бұрын

Great explanation between the two,

@martywilkinson6722 3 жыл бұрын

Outstanding video!

@LordsycoOG 3 жыл бұрын

Incredible video, definitely learned something new in this video!

@jeepinj4 3 жыл бұрын

So cool you and your brother have TJs. Hopefully one of mine will join the club one day

@rockcrusher4636 3 жыл бұрын

Great videos and info, dude you don't always have to be correct about everything, you just have to try, you doing great, thank you.

@hawthornhide7371 4 жыл бұрын

Okay so I have decided that this summer (when works at its best) I’m gonna buy another 4x4. I’ve owned three before but sold them when something broke. Loved off-roading but didn’t know where to start with fix things or preventing things from breaking in the first place. It’s definitely going to be a project, but I’m going to follow pretty much all your videos. I’d even like to follow along with engine swaps and everything. I’ve learnt so much from watching your videos already and think it’s time I put it to the test and see what I can do my self. So if you happen to have read all this, I’d just like to thank you for all the content you post, I genuinely watch every video you post.

@DirtLifestyle 4 жыл бұрын

Thank you! I really appreciate it! Good luck with the new project 👊