Interesting conversation well done 👏

My 2 favorite breeders !!

Lee and David together wow. Shout out to both of you guys your the best in the business at working bandogs and mastiffs. Have a 5 year old male from Midgard out of the Tyr and Isis breeding he had. His name is Gromm he's about 32" at the withers stays about 160-170 pounds depending on the season. I live in Ohio so winter work can be hard. Anyway he's the best dog I've ever had. Great drive, great with the family, but if you're a stranger or if I give the ok, watch out. Keep up the great work both of you.

GOOD VIDEO!!! #KEEPONBANDOGGIN

Amazing Video gentleman. I now know which two breeders I would go to. Just a question of size! I know more about Lee’s program with just all of the great content that he produces but Midgard seems like he has some serious dogs. Love it.

This was awesome Mr Robinson, hope you do more of these in the future

Excellent video!

I love game dogs.

Great video and love the side by side chat over the different programs..🤙

That was insightful and entertaining.

Great Video

Interesting conversation i hope you make more of them .

Nice i use to follow his work. Thanks!

Good Vid,have to share to my dog peeps, y'all keep up the good work on working protection dogs

I kinda knew what both of you would say, but I'm so stoked that I got to hear this out of both of the horse's mouths so to speak! Always have been impressed with both programs for longer than I'd like to admit without buying a dog from one of you!

Amazing video 🔥

Great video ! Thanks

Deer Run Kennels (Tobin Jackson) bred English Mastiffs from 1959 to the mid 1990's. www.modernmolosser.com/return-to-deer-run-the-mastiff-kennel-made-famous-by-tobin-jackson

Great video

Men agree to disagree 🤝🤝

Very interesting. It really shows up the value systems you’re working from, which I appreciate. I didn’t know all this consciously but when I picked my presa, I picked the runt because of her temperament. She’s 90 pounds, so athletic and great working drive. I guess it all depends on your needs.

I’m right in the middle but ain’t sacrificing nothing. 😂Jk Great Video!! I have done business with both men and can say both are solid men with great programs.

IT WOULD BE VERY INTERESTING TO GET TOM GARNER AND CHICO LOPEZ TO SET DOWN LIKE THIS AND HAVE A RESPECTABLE, HONEST CONVERSATION ABOUT THE APBT. I MEAN I WOULD PAY LIKE PAY PER VEIW TO SEE THAT! BUT THE WORLD WILL PROBABLY WAIT UNTIL THEY ARE NO LONGER AROUND AND SAY YOU KNOW WHAT WE SHOULD HAVE DONE????

Like buying a Lion. I use a similar expression. I say it's like owning a tiger

That is one nice looking dog

Fact is the ideal personal protection dog in terms of weight is the heavy side of Robinson's yard and the light end of Mitgard. 90-120 is where you are in but its way more than that. Its the build. The dog needs loin length and strength. Needs some length. No low slung heavy shorter do like a neo. A presa with a bit more leg and a tighter tummy. My presai port was close. Female 105lb prime condition. But it still needed more stamina in heat. If she had a bit more leg and tighter tummy loin same weight she would have been perfect. Social but on guard with strangers but not agressive. Looked to me for direction. Moderate to high sharpness. Tough tough tough. Serious bite and loved combat for the shear enjoyment of it. When her defensive side was tripped look out as she got PISSED. I am talking badger wolverine mom grizzly kinda pissed. It went from bite and hold shaken it out to bite try push in switch to pull and torque to get them over and immediately switching to a floating rib or high shoulder hold. She was trying tomend it. First decoy to push dejensivebob her wax lucky to be in a full suit with helmet. It happened so fast without it he woukd have beennin a bad way. But she was fabiulous with all childern. Awesome dog best I've owned to date which is 40yrs of dogs. But lots of presa in the country now are being poorly bred. I guess like most dogs. Only a few grwat dogmennin this country vs the number of breeders in all dogs. So many do not understand the genetics or how enviornment and factors innlife can effect in herited genetic traits. Take a wolf confine it and treat it hypothetically like a domestic dog. Breed it like thatball pure bred grey wolf. The physical traits and temperament will start to change without any out crossing. The best way to see this is in hogs. Look what happens to a higs physical structure even within the very intial generation if they get loose innthe wild. By the 4 gen all breeding with same domestic hiogs just wiod instead of confined they look almost like pure razorback. I have had ones we culled in texas tested and some were 85% domestic yet no way you could disinquish physically from a razorback. Same happens with dogs. More so is the profound effect the bitch has. Most breeders focus onnmale traits heavily. Tend not to proof the females yet 75% of total DNA is from the female 50 % chromosomal DNA but 100% mitochondrial DNA is from the brood bitch. The male onky transfers the 50%chromosomal dna. Many personality traits are effected bybthe chromosomal dna as well as physical. Even more critical is defects for dieseases. The female is far more critical in the pick. But both are of course critical. I recall this right after Coyxs Banjo won his GRCH status. We had a 3x Cookie iout of Webster Tx. She was a hard bitch. Hard mouth smart and had lungs tested long game 3:00+. That breeding wax kept off record. Those dogs had a huge effect on Banjos ROM status. If I had the room on my yard backmthen I think that would have been my corner stock for all time. I would have built my yard off those dogs. But these days I want a with me 90% of tge time personal protection dog that at the same time can hold a hog kill a coyote catch enough air to sail thru a pu truck window if needed. Believe it or not big dogs are easier to wrestle and pin or hold if you dodge to first lunge. You just have to get the head to the side. But a 90-100lb pit/bull dog etc mix with that build can twist quirm and actually wrestle (which any game in sportman knows all to well). Your still innthe shIt with one of those dogs. But as Robinson stated last thing you ever want is for one of those big dogs to get you off your feet. Its FUBAR then. With all that said unless you heed to regardly travel with your dog like daily and have a home vs apt with yard I recommend Mitgard. Not for thereSon most would think. Its because the Mastiffs need saving. Just look at an AKC show of them. These dogs were work hunting dogs once. Dog you know the greart dane name use tomve wolfhound. It is technically a hound breed. A coursing hound no less. But look at it now. Look at bull mastiffs not even making 10yr of age and collapse after a 100 yd sprint. Look at the gait of 90% of the mastiffs its the bloodhound shuffle. Not the n8bble alternate trot. At a run there is no more double suspension as the loin is weak and thick. Bone structure too heavy. AKC might save breeds from obscurity but they have ruined far more breeds thrning them into life Ess physicall conformity. No performance or mental traits. The fact there are show and working lines of many dogs in sporting and working groups shows the utter failure of the AKC. What they did to the NEO today would be considered animal cruelty. Enough said. Both men are doing great work

The head and limbs on that Black dog are MASSIVE🤩. I have a Corso female...about 100#...and her limbs are not nearly that thick. Gorgeous animal there👏👏👏

The ban dogs I herd about the doctor guy bred alot were game apbt cross to mastiff is that right

Good video. Two dogmen with somewhat similar goal but took a different direction or path to get there and still respect each other. Have to learn more about Midguard. Lee if the breeding you tried with Osiris would have been successful, how would that have fit in with your program? I’m sure you had a plan but just curious.

How do you determine the cost of your dog you was saying how some will cost 1500 and up

That's some of Earl Riptoe old blood, great to David Ishe keep that blood alive

How are the band Dog, mastiffs, effective on ranch, farms against wolves?

In a modern context without getting philosophical… a band dog is a mix of “pit bull terrier” and mastiff.

Dang what about my program lee lol

Great video !! Best breeders just facts! I know they started crossing the neo mastiff with sharpei and still is a legit papered dog in ukc akc but that's how they messed up the breed so sad I rather get a register dog from THESE guys then a papered dog with akc or ukc pedegri Ukc and akc is bullshit

With all respect, can't hear that good.