Totally agree. Guys are incredibly desperate on those apps- which leads to women being inundated with a seemingly endless amount of options. And that is just psychology- when someone has so many options it is hard for them to commit to any one of them.

@@JoshPiperyep I’ve thought if it was in reverse and you were getting hundreds of messages from chicks it would be pretty hard to stick with one. The second a girl did something you didn’t like you know you could replace her the same day. That invariably is what’s in the minds of women that are online dating. Just my observation for why it’s increasingly hard for the average man today.

@@JoshPiper Yep, too many choices is a prison. But yeah, it was pretty eye opening to me to witness that. I knew extremely attractive women received a ridiculous amount of messages, but I didn't expect someone who I wouldn't even notice if I walked past them in Kroger to get that kind of attention- even when they're new to the app, where you tend to get more activity.

I do think most guys are absolutely doomed on apps. I do agree with you that in person is the best way to make a real impression and connection with someone. It just depends on how hard you want it I guess. If you do a lot of approaching and your decent at it- yeah you will probably have success. But a lot of guys don’t want to do that- it’s draining, it’s a lot of rejection, a lot of potential drama, and after a while they simply choose to redirect that energy somewhere else- maybe a hobby or their job or whatever. I’m not really complaining about it I don’t think- more just analyzing how much of an imbalance there is between the sexes. Women can sort of just show up, sit there, and have opportunities come right in front of them- where as guys literally will get nothing unless they really put in the work. I had a job selling over the phone - and I’ll use this analogy. We all had to cold call people- and let me tell you- that is an uphill battle. Trying to call random people and sell them a service over the phone. These people never heard of you, they have a high amount of objections and it’s a struggle even to get into a conversation. Lots of these people hang up on you- tell you to F off, etc. Meanwhile- a few of the guys handled the inbound calls (meaning they spoke with customers who called in and wanted to know more about the product/service) That phone call was 100 times easier - because that person actually wanted to learn more and consider the solution we were selling. Those guys had it so easy- and that is what I compare the dating market as a man vs a woman. The guys are trying to make cold call outbound sales while the women are dealing with inbound warm leads.

Hard to say really- I think in the US guys are more open to approaching women on the street or in public places. But it has gone way down compared to previous generations. I think a lot of guys just don’t want to deal with any drama so they avoid the interaction altogether. Also- the internet has provided another avenue for men and women to potentially meet each other - even though in my opinion the internet is way worse than in person. It is way too easy for either person to just ghost you on the internet- because they haven’t met you and in their eyes you are not real- so as soon as you say anything they don’t like they can just stop responding - which I think happens a lot.

@@JoshPiper good intel, I'm American by the way, born and raised on the East Coast grew up in the 90s, so the only way a man would have succeeded with a woman was by approaching her just to give frame. Now i don't make eye contact or respond to their thirst traps.

That's pretty much how you have to be. I know women want to feel like every guy who approaches her does so because they think she's super special, but the fact is, as a guy, you have to not give shit about the outcome, at least initially The word NO (rejection) truly only has the power you give it in this situation. In a way, this makes online dating worse, because there's usually much more communication beforehand and then a planned meetup. Whereas IRL, you take your shot and move on in a matter of minutes. It's a numbers game, really. It takes some practice, but you're really better off approaching women IRL-because in either scenario, .you're have to interact with them face to face eventually.

Yeah I mean when you have nothing you have nothing to lose. I do think a lot of guys could have success if they act normal and approach a high number of women in public places. But then the question becomes how hard do I really want to work for this? Do you have to approach 5, 10, maybe 20 women before one of them agrees to spend time with you? A lot of guys probably don’t want to do that because it’s draining and even if a woman agrees to go on a date or whatever - she will likely not be very interested in anything serious. These women also know in the back of their mind they have hundreds of options - guys that send messages on social media or simply downloading a dating app- and they can have easy access to lots of guys. In my opinion- this is why people are not getting married/having kids as much or as early in the western world today. A higher percentage of younger women are hesitant to commit to any one guy because of all the perceived options that the internet and dating apps provides. That’s why people aren’t getting married as young or at all- and why less families are forming. Plus- more women now are working and having a kid is an incredible inconvenience when they are focused on a career.

@@JoshPiper oh totally agree. You gotta be really squared away to land a chick these days. Have not only something special about you, including looks - future - past - financials. The expectations are astronomical and a bit out of touch imo. Maybe things will change when two or three whole generations goes without forming the basic bonds that make life what it really is at its core.

If your goal are kids then you do. have. to have everything in order, but if you just want fun with a girlfriend, finances shouldnt be too much of an issue. If you can afford to take her out and go on a holiday once a year, you are set for dating.

I think there are women out there that aren’t overly concerned about your financial situation at least currently. However- I would speculate that most women are going to evaluate you and what your future prospects are- they are concerned about how you can economically provide as it directly impacts them if you are in a relationship/ have kids. That is wired into women- obviously having kids makes them more reliant on their partner as they have to actually have the kid and likely miss work for a while or for more than a while. So- you are probably better off at least now focusing on making more money/improving your economic situation….because that is going to be an important prerequisite for most women to seriously consider you past just having fun in the short term.