Very true! This is part of the reason I see the earliest turns of Magic as kind of... tedious. Playing a land and passing doesn't really feel like playing to me, just a step I'm taking to be able to play my cool cards. That said, I also haven't played it much and play Yu-Gi-Oh far more often so I won't speak for how others feel about it and I might just be missing something haha.

First 1-5 rounds are the most entertaining in MtG exactly because of managing resources. If anyone would be a millionaire in a day there wouldn't be real payoff in the game. People are focusing on goals (playing cool cards), not on adventure (managing resources), this is why they are "tired" of playing the game and want more after finishing. It's not the fault of the game.

I can understand that. While I do think the cost, whatever it may be, of using an effect helps balance it, I also think there will always be a series of most efficiently costed and powerful effects people try to play, at least in meta focused environments. One of the joys of playing in less competitive gaming environments is to try out new and potentially less effective, but still pretty competent and fun options!

That's because that's what it is. That's why so many games have a resource system YGO is the only game I know that refused to have one. And thats because it was never made with the intent to actually be played. Hear me out guys: Yugioh the card Game came about only after fans of the Yugioh Manga wanted more detail on a fictional Game called Duel Monsters was played in the comic. Yugioh the manga was about a boy who loved all kinds of games much like the creator. The game wasnt really explained when played because it qasnt meant to be it was just another obscure game played by the protagonist to serve as a conflict. After being continually asked about the game Kazuki was pressured into making the Yugioh Duelist manga which became the next chapter and sequel to the Yugioh manga where this card Game was brought as the central conflict for the stories. Too many games had gone by for the game to be changed to add resources or be balanced so Kazuki had to introduce elements in later chapters to make the game seem more "playable" because when originally designing the real life game that was based on his manga Bandai noticed it lacked sales to properly maintain a market and dropped the rights for it. That's when Konami stepped in bought the rights and worked with Kazuki to make it "more playable." None of these elements however have fixed the games core flaws and it continues to suffer from being a product of something that wasnt put much thought into other than further the plot of a really interesting story.

If you can immediately use the most powerful cards that's a very fast game speed. Your example is a clear example of the game being super fast.

@@jaygardner6639 Yugioh is the only card game you can think of that doesn't use a color based resource systems. Most Japanese tcgs, and even some from western countries, don't use that or other similar resources. A resource system can be more than one particular mechanic that's their to balance against the power of certain cards, not even to regulate game speed(though it will inherently affect it). Resources can also be in conjunction or different from a core resource system. In early ygo lifepoints were common used alongside discarding effects, your opponent own cards through other cards' effects, and overtime the graveyard and banished zone became more resources.

@@williamehrhardt918 Being able to use powerful effects quickly doesn't increase gamespeed if the mechanics of the cards and of the overall game still leads slower play overall. A game can be five turns in total but still feel like it took twenty due to various mechanics and card effects needing to be resolving. Hence the complaints of 1v1 solitaire, long games that don't feel satisfying, and low interaction between players.

Yep, and thanks for the comment! This is something I realize I should have clarified at the start of the video from some of the feedback I've gotten. Resource systems are first and foremost designed to balance, not slow, but I wanted to address that second point and see if that side effect was really the case. Mentioning that at the beginning would have cleared things up a bit and kept me focused over the course of the video. I will say, I think it's still probably easier to assemble a board in Yu-Gi-Oh than in Magic, at least in terms of how soon it can be done turn-wise, but if an aggro deck is managing it in Magic with only a few effects and cards in early turns, than it's certainly possible time-wise it's happening faster.

I mean, I dont see why it cant be both. It does facilitate a certain rising tempo. also, I would say “easier to balance” as in there is a more firm reference points between most cards in terms of effectuality to cost. while in yugioh, one format may have targeted destruction be good, while another its not as good.

Somebody paid attention in How to Write a Scientific Paper. Good work. Very few seem to grasp the formatting and presentation for a good statement.

Even looking at something as simple as poker dodges the question. A round can be played in 5 minutes or way way longer depending on how the players play.

I think there's 2 criterias who determine the speed of the game: The amount of turns of similar required to win the game, and the amount of plays you can make per turn. YGO tends to be won on turn 2 to 5 and that considers each player, and without bans the answer is literally the first turn you have. That being said YGO does have a resource: Amount of summons. The problem is that those have inflated to ridiculous levels.

I think hundreds in a first turn is a stretch. Even card rotation heavy decks dont go that high. its way more common to see 10’s even in higher draw decks.

@@midshipman8654yes. Competitive decks are in the 10s but meme decks can go into the 100 and even do infinite loop if the goal of the deck wasn't to go for game. Still, even if it wasn't actually 100 cards, it feels like that for some people to certain decks.

Thanks for the comments and criticisms, Emma! They're appreciated in helping me improve and grow the videos and the channel itself. I wasn't aware of that intent from Magic's designers, it's a good thing to know for the future. Personally, I saw the time over which you're using your resources in Chrono Trigger and Pokemon as similar to a single game in a TCG, but I can definitely see your point of view and agree with it. I was thinking of this with my Yu-Gi-Oh player brain, where you're trying to stave off the inevitable loss of all your resources by the end, rather than how it works in TCG like Magic, where your resource that allows you to play cards naturally replenishes every turn. This wasn't a good comparison, and I'll work on improving that in the future. Also, completely true, 4 is almost twice 7 and I have no idea how I allowed that to fly in editing - I assume it's because it was convenient for what I was saying and the point I was trying to make, but that means I let my personal bias impact scripting, which is something I'm trying to temper in future videos.

Yes, 7 turns is more than 4 turns, but how long does one of those turns take, how many actions are done. If the first 2 turns only involve each player putting down a single card and ending their turn and the one after that playing single weak monsters, that might go faster than a single turn in a game that starts out with 4+ cards being played on each side.

I thinks it's also incorrect to state that Yu-gi-oh doesn't have a resource system. Cards in hand are a resource system that both games use to manage the pace of the game. They also both have life totals as well, that are used to manage the pace of the game.

@@Draw5Move5 Happy to see your open mind for improving your content. I also felt the Yu-Gi-Oh bias in the video, but that is also what drew (pun intended) me into this video. I think one suggestion I have is to delve in the games to give a fair comparison. Your voice and Yu-Gi-Oh background is a strength of your channel, but on the other hand the design videos give me the impression that you have the breadth of knowledge to utilize your strength into. The premise is great, and I think with more time (or other videos I will have to catch up to) you can even open up the minds of players who only play one TCG. Cheers

Yup, I've talked about this in some other comments. YGO's early game is basically just the first turn, whereas in MTG's Legacy (and from what I've been told, Modern and Standard) the early game acts as the first few turns as both players ramp, set up for later, and prepare to start swinging. Cumulatively, the actions in both games' early game is about the same per player, and the amount of minutes they take combined is about equal, but the turns do skew to YGO being faster.

@@Draw5Move5 not completely true with some Decks Sneak Attack (a legacy deck) wins FTK most cases similar to the nonsense YGO does in every single one of its Metas.

@@jaygardner6639 Sneak attack often wont win turn 1. Charbelcher would be a better example.

Then add Flesh and Blood's resource system to the mix, and the whole thing becomes even more nuanced

@@revimfadli4666 slower ≠ better in all cases

Magic the gathering in a well balanced meta has fast decks that try to win early and lose late decks that whether the storm and win late and decks in between. yugioh's lax limitations means that decks have a much higher card velocity and a much lower variation in the amount of turns a game takes. making the game feel much faster even if those turns take ,uch longer. Magic does have formats that play like yugioh but they can still regularly go long

Glad to be of help! I've heard a little from subscribers that there isn't a good amount of content on card game design in easy to access places, so I'm glad I can provide that. And yes, that's basically it: whether it's a resource like mana in MTG or more arbitrary limitations like zones, once per turn restrictions, and summon limitations in Yu-Gi-Oh!, the best cards available tend to get around these limits and put a lot of decisions on the player. Even entry play for new players can be really complex, which slows down the games immensely!

You re telling me. I just found this today, almost three years later.

I can agree on a lot of this. A game with a resource system plays faster if the need for that resource is removed, while games without them in the first place like Yu-Gi-Oh! counteract this with ruling, zoning, and restrictions on the cards themselves. It's certainly a more complicated way of doing it, and it does make the game look flashy, but like you said, everyone (if they can afford them, but that's a separate issue) has access to those strategies, allowing for back and forth swings and huge haymakers to equalize boards when things get too crazy. On the "Cards played per turn" side, I definitely agree that the ability to play a lot of cards in a turn makes the game appear faster, even if it isn't functionally. This is why a lot of modern Yu-Gi-Oh design makes use of hard once-per-turn effects (and why Problem Solving Card Text is so helpful), meaning no matter how many copies of a card you put on the board, you can only use the effect of a card with its name once per turn. While all these hard once per turns can chain together into powerful end boards, there's still a limit to how much you can do, and interacting at the right points can stop some of those strings. The game will always look fast, but in practice, the speed tops out somewhere.

@@Draw5Move5 Wow, thanks for responding! I really do appreciate your insights and explanations on my thoughts. Yu-Gi-Oh does make use of lots of features to keep the game manageable without "tapping" into a resource system. It's hard to make an absolute measure of "gameplay speed" that accounts for everything and applies to all games universally, so telling someone "YGO is so much faster than MTG" is almost certainly misleading, possibly even outright wrong. Some people might say, "YGO's faster because you can play your boss monster the first turn of the game," while others could think, "YGO's so slow because its combos use so many cards and so much time," or "YGO's speed is unremarkable because games last an average number of turns." All of them make sense, but each one has labelled YGO differently because they interpret speed differently - it becomes harder to establish clarity on what makes a game "fast," and it can be awkward trying to understand what someone means when they just say "YGO is fast" or "How fast is YGO?" This is all ignoring that casual-vs-competitive "average game" mentioned in the video. Personally, I do think YGO is "faster," because of its endboards tend to be established relatively easily, and my understanding on TCG speed comes from "doing more stuff in a turn = faster." If you don't mind my asking, even though YGO's speed has a limit, do you think it can be compared to MTG, and if so, where do you think it lands relative to MTG? On an unrelated note, YES, card games are expensive! Fetchlands in MTG, Borreload Savage Dragon in YGO, Computer Search in Pokemon... okay, not everyone has /literal/ equal access to the cards, but it'd be really nice if we did. I think YGO actually does reprints really well (so does Pokemon, but theirs is geared towards their rotating Standard format), but it's still disappointing that some of the game staples can command such high prices.

Of course! Sometimes the comments can be a bit long, but I do my best to get to everyone - the point of these videos is for them to be informative and foster discussion, so I do my best to actively encourage that. At the end of the day, I think YGO definitely *feels* a bit faster than the average game of Standard or Modern in MTG, though I haven't played either of those formats to really have a good idea. Like you said, you're playing more cards a turn which, on average, means you're playing faster. They're definitely comparable - MTG and YGO time rules for tournament matches are only off by ten minutes, and the fact that the early turns in MTG (from what I've seen at least) tend to consist of a few land drops, casting one spell a turn, and maybe taking a small swing at the opponent, lead me to believe they're pretty close. If you add up the cards per player in the "early game" in MTG, the first few turns, and then compare it to each player's cards used in the first turn in YGO, the amount of cards played is similar. YGO does it all at once, MTG draws it out, and both games kind of lack a mid game at this moment in time from what I've been told on the MTG side.

I disagree with your complexity comment. Yugioh has more play Complexity while MtG has more Strategic Complexity. In yugioh cards ever really can and will do the thing stated, in YGO cards combo more frequently but dont have as many Interactions, triggers and things to take into account. While magic cares far more about the board state of all players if you want a case in point look at Lorwyn Standard as s design example if the most complexity we've ever had. Yugioh has never even come close to that level of depth because their pieces are so easy to play and in most cases the "cost" of a card is turned into their advantage look at Lightsworn and Dark Worlds for examples.

I like both games, but coming from MTG, I love how your example of its complexity is Modern Burn: the deck that gets mocked for being straightforward as hell.

Thanks, glad you enjoyed it!

Thank you, glad you enjoyed it!

mtg´s pace is one of the aspects that allow for agrro/control/combo ttiad to exist. Also in yugioh decks are samey, a mix of control/combo, all special summoning and tutoring and reanimating. the other thing to consider is that time each turn takes, often resulting in actual downtime for the off turn player. even if you have interaction you had 1 play and the opponent had 10.

Also like many other Duel Masters-inspired TCGs with multiuse cards?

What prevents big turn 1 plays is the notion of ramp. You can technically have a ressource that doesn't increase over time.

Thanks for the comments, Gonçalo! They're greatly appreciated. I'll answer them individually since that's how you wrote them. Yes, and to that point I realize I should have mentioned that in the video lol. It wasn't something I thought to say, and the script probably should have gone through another revision to catch things like that. I wanted to explore if there was a side effect of slowing games down for having a resource system, as that's the comment I've heard somewhat often, but I didn't really present it as a side effect when that was my intention. I'm not sure I'd say the mana system itself is responsible for creating deck diversity, but that may be because of my lack of experience with Magic. I see the effects on the cards and how they all interact as more of the factor that creates diversity in a game (and the disparity in power between these effects and decks as what shrinks diversity). I can definitely see and appreciate the fact that the mana system is designed to ramp up the interactions over time though - I like being able to play and interact right out of the gate, which is something rather unique to Yu-Gi-Oh, but I can appreciate that ramp up as buildup works great in a lot of scenarios for enhancing fun and excitement (like in books, film, and even music).

@@Draw5Move5 The mana system creates diversity because you are limited in the colors you can play, creating fewer decks that look the same and fewer cards that go in every deck.

time should be the major objective factor here, as players feel is often misleading

Thanks for the comment, Austin! The turn count can sometimes be misleading as a representation of how long a game has been going, which is the only reason I don't like it as much. Yu-Gi-Oh and some more crazy forms of Magic like Commander have the potential to go on 15 minute turns just due to the sheer length of combos and the changes that can happen along the way, as you've said. It brings up the larger question of how healthy the game is if our turns are lasting that long, but that's a separate issue for another day.

@@goncaloferreira6429 no the objective factor is turns, yugioh is a flawed game

@@Draw5Move5 Legacy and Vintage can have 15 minute turns too. Modern used to as well before Second Sunrise got banned.

Thank you!

I know some about Yu-Gi-Oh. However it is very little. There are two things about basic Yu-Gi-Oh rules that I find wierd. One is that the numbers are really big. Maybe it is supposed to look impressive. Howevsr for me, it seems too much of a downside. It would be difficult to calculate. I prefer to have the single digit numbers in MTG. It is a lot more practice as it is easy to do the math in one's head. Another wierd thing about Yu-Gi-Oh is the lack of resource cards. This does seem fast. Yet when I look deeper there are other kinds of speed bumps. The video did mention some. I do know that the level system can work as a speed bump. High level creatures are more powerful, but they come at a price. Low level creatures can be summoned right away. Medium level creatures require one creature as a tribute. High level creatures require two tribute creatures. I think that is how that works. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong. I am a major noob. It is cool that this video talks about slower decks. That may be the Yu-Gi-Oh version of control decks. I have been watching the TV show on Netflix. It is the basic origional show. I picked that so it would be easier, and I won't get lost. The show seems really strange and outlandish at first. Then I get used to things. I know the basic rules well enough to follow the show okay. Later on I notice some things that is very familiar as a MTG player. One time Yugi and his friends get stuck in a cave. Then there was a character that uses a deck with a zombie undead theme. It is spooky. This deck is good at resurrecting creature cards from the graveyard and playing them as zombies. This is a lot like how black works in MTG. I know because I am a black player. I even had a pretty good Golgari (Black and green combo) deck a while back. That is really into using and resurrecting stuff from the graveyard. Today I watched an episode that played shortly after. Yuki has gained enough star chips, and he made it to the castle of Pegasus. Seto Kaiba block the way, so they have a duel. This fight is a shining example of a Yu-Gi-Oh fight that is slow. It really drags. This match is even three episodes long. That is long. The battle is slow, because Kaiba is deliberately stalling. This is really famiiar. I am a blue p,Ayer, and I enjoy control. Kaiba is essentially doing that. First he uses a genie with a lamp. The lamp protects the genie from damage. That stalls the game. Eventually Yu-Gi-Oh finds a way to get rid of the lamp and defeat the genie. Then Kaiba uses a clown with a virus. Yugi defeats the clown easily, but the virus infects his whole deck. Then Yugi can't use any creature except for weak ones. This stalls the game so much more. The fight drags on and on. Kaiba has a clever plan. He gradually gains Blue Eeyes White Dragon cards by drawing them, but he doesn't play them right away. He just accumulates them over time. Then in the late game Kaiba plays three Blue Eyes with a polymerization. This forms an ultimate Blue Eyes with thre heads. Then he tries to use it to finish off Yugi. The stalling was a means to the end of getting g to the ultimate creature. This is just was a I do as a control player in MTG. My first main deck was an Izzet deck (red blue combo). I use the deck to play the long game. My big creatures are dragons. That is similar. The blue eyes creature even has blue and white in its color scheme. The two colors form Azorious in MTG. This is the best pair for control and defense. It is a pair complelty opposite of red, which is the offensive color. When Kaiba summons his big creature, he laughs. I know what that feels like. I can go, "Ha! I have outfitted you and controlled you. Now I will crush you with my big guy. MWAHAHAHAH!!" Yugi eventually finds a way to win. Part of it is using decay to weaken the Blue Eyes. Another part is summoning a bunch of little brown puff balls. The puff balls are weak enough individually to bypass the virus. An individual is way to weak to fight any strong opponent. However as a huge group they effectively defend Yugi. That part is familiar. That is Selesnya (green white) shenanigans right there. My favorite pair in MTG is Izzet. Selena is the complete opposite. I find fighting against Selesnya annoying. This is really into putting a bunch of weak creatures. It can be hard to remove using spells, except for bord wipes. The brown puffballs even have green feet, and green is in Selesnya. Yugi could have won the fight. However Kaiba pulled a stunt by going to the edge of a ledge. Yugi refused to win, because he didn't want to risk Kaiba falling off and getting hurt. This is a complex moral issue, and I think Yuki made a big blunder. I did consider the issue. I figured out what to do. If I was in Yugi's position, I would show no restraint. Grandpa is too important to give up on. He is even worth sacrificing for. Even if Kaiba got hurt, it would be worth it. The stunt was really reckless. If Kaiba did get hurt, it would be his own fault. I found a solution. Yugi has defeating Pegasus as his ultimate goal. Beating Kaiba allowes Yugi entry into the caste, so he can encounter and defeat Pegasus. If Yugi actually wins, he can bring a lot of good for all the innocents in distress. He can save his Grandpa. He can use the award money to pay the doctors and save Joey's sister. Yugi can even save Kaiba's brother. A hero is typically willing to help others, even those they have no personal ties to. Kaiba wants to save his brother. That is why he challenged and fought Yugi in the first place. Yugi could saved the brother instead. Both Kaiba and Pesus would be hurt in the process, but it is worth it. There is more good than harm. So it is worth it. I think heros should be willing to make sacrifices when necessary. Extreme pacifism is not as good and moral as it may seem. Sometimes doing the right thing may cause harm on the side. It won't make people feel good about themselves. This is what I thought. I don't know how this story ends. I just got to keep watching.

@@sylviadailey9126 I'll be honest I didn't read all that. But I can explain the large numbers. They are not to look impressive. They are part of Japanese culture. Japanese currency always uses much higher numbers, similar to if we measured all our prices in pennies. As such a sandwich costing 1,500 yen is not unusual. So most of the old gambling games in the culture use chips that represent 100s as their smallest increments. In magic, the game was developed as a break from D&D campaigns and its very likely that you start with 20 LP because they had D20s laying around to track life.

Yes

That's actually predicted to be a big problem with the newest set coming out. Some of the cards coming out of it will be making it where a monster that says your opponent can't play on their turn can be summoned turn 1.

I also think time is the best way to measure games. Turns are arbitrary and vary wildly from deck to deck and game to game. Some turns are long, some short, and a lot of that depends on what decks sit down at the table to play each other. I can definitely agree that the game has changed a lot since the old days. Old Yu-Gi-Oh looks a lot like Magic as I understand it, as each player builds resources. There were a lot less cohesive strategies with main gameplans though in the very old days - we didn't really see dedicated strategies that weren't just a pile of generically good cards until a few years in, during and after the GX era. Nowadays, you're right, special summoning is a lot more prevalent (and the goal of a lot of design seems to be to break the rules by giving as many special summons as possible, which is a separate discussion), but there *are* still decks that only do so a little to get themselves set up or gain incremental advantage and that have been competitively viable, like Altergeist and Sky Striker.

@@Draw5Move5 The way i see it a good game, like Mtg has room for all types of decks and strategies. In my opinion The archtype design philosophy of yugioh and most japanse tcgs is reductive. I could be part of the game but not the all the game and the main way new cards and "metas" are though out. Even if there are some more controlly strategies, like the examples you gave, are more of an exception and, as far as my knowlege goes, still based around archtypes. On the changes over time in yugioh: again it is a japanse thing, prefering fast paced games with focus on power level/high impact cards with multiple effects and while somewhat based on synergy, that synegy is archtype based and thus made for the player, reducing the choices he/she has to make, a problem already present due to the size of the main deck and the use of the extra deck- all that and the abuse of special summoning and decj searches all lead to super consistent decks. Mtg changed over time in the same way but is much closer to the original vision that yugioh. Apologies for the bad writting. Time is short and english is not my first language.

10 1-minute turns 1 10-minute turn Same same.

Yea for real it’s basic game balance philosophy most people who aren’t idiots know games need a resource based system.

The things that make Yu-Gi-Oh fast are the spells, not the monsters.

cant get arena where you are?

@@redlord4321 north Africa

@@maroindefinitlyhuman6857 ya i was just wondering is it not available to you?

@@redlord4321 I haven't tried arena but I don't think it would satisfy the thirst for the real card game.

@@maroindefinitlyhuman6857 sure but it's something over nothing and you can get your feet wet for free

I know very little about the Pokemon TCG, but honestly that sounds about right, mostly because that's what ALL TCGs try to do haha. Part of pushing the boundaries of design tends to be pushing the rules and breaking things in ways they weren't meant to work, sometimes to less than fair results for the players. Zoodiac is a great example of this in Yu-Gi-Oh - the deck completely broke the way the XYZ mechanic was supposed to work, to the point that with the other cards at its disposal between its own options and outside support, the deck was meta defining for almost half a year until its best cards finally got banned.

Crazy to think what the extremes are. I'm usually happy if I can just get 3 energy out in a turn. Buts thats mostly cuz i like playing darkness decks. And the main attackers I use right now only need 3 to attack. I guess 6 if I wanna do the bonus effect for umbreon and darkrai.

Sometimes they can be a bit like walls of text, yeah. The text box is also kind of tiny which doesn't make it easier.

Thanks for the feedback Gonçalo. I'm working on that first part - research is something I'm trying to be more conscious of to make sure I present the points fairly and try to edit myself for bias so they're clear and undistorted, while still providing my perspective. It's a hard balance to strike, but with each video I'm getting better.

Yinyanyeow, that sounds similar to the Pokémon TCG's evolution mechanic but with a way to bypass it at the cost of card advantage. It's a cool idea to play with for sure, you just have to think about how you balance the card advantage with the creature's effects, and how important card advantage and having large creatures are in your game. Another consideration is to give the creatures stronger effects if they have forms beneath them and/or make them weaker if they don't. Yu-Gi-Oh does this sometimes where you can normal/special summon a high level monster, but its effects are negated, or its attack is reduced to 0. Food for thought ^-^!

@@Draw5Move5 I got it though to use a special power on any card, user has to use their Ko'ed creatures to try a power usually. And those are one a turn powers so it makes choices hard enough and also I tried to make weaker creatures viable with some having constant powers but they got weak stats and can be hit if in a certain position or special power very easily.

It's also very important to note than in most games card disadvantage is very bad, you need to do something to keep this from being the case. Most notably there need to not be good one card answers to cards that require multiple cards to play, but there still needs to be some way to answer them.

@@Ninjamanhammer Funny that I didn't get to this. (Sorry.) With the game I made, you never really have to worry about your hand since your deck is where the payment usually comes from since you always go back up to the hand size at the start of the turn after you discard what you don't want.

​@@YinyanyeowDiscarding from deck isn't a really big deal unless you run a crucial card at 1 copy. Pot of desires (a yugioh card that get rid of the 10 top cards of your deck to draw 2) sees wide play in decks that don't have too much one offs

there are a few cards in mtg that use being face down as a mechanic, but it is a specific effect so it's not as common as I imaging it is in YuGiOh. Some games have attempted to fix the problem of having duds in your decks, like "force of will" where they put the mana cards in a different deck this also fixed the problem of getting too much or too little mana, also magic seems to have larger decks then YuGiOh.

well in pokemon current format, energies have a lot of uses despite being a ressource, lot of cards discards energies to do something like draw or put damages on chosen pokemon, also most decks don't play more than 10 energies

The closest you get to that in MTG is Gitaxian Probe, which let's you draw 1 and look at your opponents hand at no mana cost. Though it cost you 2 life.

Yup, that's the difference between pot of greed and ancestral recall, you can't spam recalls turn 1.

I've seen it a few times but looking back on it, this wasn't the most accurate assessment lol. I'm not sure if I meant 5 turns between both players or just the one, but with the former it's sort of reasonable. If Salamangreat is taking more than 5 of their own turns to win or scoop it up and go to a new game though, something is probably very wrong haha

Wil, thanks, I'm glad you liked the video! Lol sorry, I'm fairly new to Magic so I didn't know about the WBBRG thing at the time XD. I will say, Yu-Gi-Oh isn't always combo heavy or even always archetype focused. While the Thunder Dragon decks that were prevalent last summer were named after one archetype, the whole deck was a mess of different cards, most of which weren't part of the aforementioned archetype - they just used Thunder as an additional end piece and combo enabler. Warrior mishmash decks have been around for a while thanks to Isolde, Two Tales of the Noble Knights, and plenty of slower control decks may have a small archetypal core (Guru Control) or lack one completely (Classic Stun decks), filling in with draw cards and generically good traps. Magic, from what I've learned and watched, can combo off just as hard in a lot of cases, and you could consider things like Elf Tribal to be an archetype in some respects.

@@Draw5Move5 Yup. Again, very well said. But going back to whether or not Resource Systems slow down/speed up games, I go back to what I said: It doesn't matter if a game has a Resource System, its all about Design Philosophy. YuGiOh plays faster because they were designed to be played faster. It doesn't matter if the game has a traditional (mana-land in MtG), non-traditional (tribute/special summoning in YGO), or abstract (time like in Vanguard) resource system. A designer will exploit that system to have the game be played how they want it to be played. Whether or not that is fast or slow, it will be decided by the game designer :)

@@wilagaton9627 Great answers. I would add that the game designer did his/her job well if both strategies, playing fast(agrro) or slow(combo/control) are all viable strategies with counterplay to them

Magic also has otks and ftks lol

@@easyleg7521 theey're not common in standard commander has sort of gentleman's agreement-ed out of doing them early and the only places they're incredibly common is legacy and vintage both of which are less popular formats

something tells me that regardless of this comment, you didn't even give tearalaments a chance

This same thing happened to magic. I remeber playing casual with friends and local tournament s. In a land far away the 90s. But you never knew and we always played lots of multiplayer. it could just be my love for exploration and unusual decks.

you have no idea what you're talking about

Me when I literally don't know what I'm talking about

Yugioh is easily the most interactive game, if you know to play the game you can do things during your opponents turn.

well spoken and i totally agree. Even if the the guy was on the defensive i dont believe he did so intentionally as he did come forth and said yugioh is his game of choice

JJ, thanks for your comment and your insight - I appreciate criticism, it helps me make the videos on my channel better. You're correct that the purpose of a resource system is to balance a game, and I WHOLEHEARTEDLY agree, Yu-Gi-Oh! has a major balance issue. I love the game, but the difference in power level between the different decks designed can be vast, and the best can be insanely overpowered. I didn't feel it was something I needed to mention in this video, but I probably should have to clarify that I understand what these systems are for and that this video was meant to examine a potential side effect. I'm also still working on being better researched for my videos, especially on subjects I have less experience in like MTG. In regards to consistency and FTKs, yes, Yu-Gi-Oh is consistent (something I plan to discuss in an upcoming video), but I wouldn't say that most of Yu-Gi-Oh is about FTK or that those FTKs are super consistent. Both players can have the means to interrupt their opponent through handtraps, and true FTKs are both fairly fragile and a lot less common in Yu-Gi-Oh's history than you might think. Those that have existed have USUALLY been dealt with quickly on the next banlist. There are certainly issues with "Build a board" decks that make huge opens with a ton of interaction, which speaks to a larger game design issue that I hope Konami rectifies, but with those you're not guaranteed to lose before you get a turn.

>Most of yugioh is about FTK and it's super consistent. No, it isn't, it's actually quite rare for a FTK deck to become top tier given how the game has a bunch of ways to interrupt the opponent's plays with hand traps and the like, if anything YGO is more of a game about control given how historically speaking control decks have been always the winner of big events meanwhile OTK and FTK decks usually lose pretty quickly thanks to their inherent frailty, and even if a FTK deck becomes a top tier contender then either the playerbase finds a way to defuse the combo or Konami itself bans the enabler in the next banlist. There is no such a thing as a perfect and unbreakable combo in YGO, that's why it's a fair game.

@@Penbin123 I have to disagree. Nearly every major meta breaker in Yugioh was an FTK or an 2TK deck. Dad control won mostly on its first turn, so did Frog FTK, so did Dark Matter Dragons decks, so did YZTKD, so did Atlanteas, so did Win Up, etc. In Magic, FTK decks are very bad. Like, they were never a viable option. In Magic, even in Vintage, the best decks are control decks. The reason why FTK decks are not viable is exactly because of the Mana system. To setup an FTK in Magic you need more than 3 mana. To get 3+ mana on your turn, you need specific cards, like Black Lotus (which is one of the best cards in the game). Cards that give you insane amount of mana for no real cost. Vintage is the only MTG format where this would be reliably possible. When you go to formats like Legacy, etc. these strategies will never have a chance, because of mana restrictions. Combo decks can't go off on turn 1. Another problem with Yugioh are the tutors. Tutors cost nothings which makes the games faster because there are first more cards played and second consientency is increased. In Magic, there are tutors, but those cost mana. There is a HUGE difference between 0 and 1 mana and nearly every 0 mana card in Magic breaks the game, because it is virtually not a real Magic card rather a Yugioh card. I like Yugioh because of its fast gameplay because there is no real resource system. I do not consider restrictions of effects as resources, like mentioned in the video. Every card game has that. That is not at all comparable with a mana resource.