Does it work here's the proof about recapping

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Stereo review X

Stereo review X

Күн бұрын

Recapping vintage Celestion Ditton 15 speakers.
50 year old vintage speaker in half an hour .
listening to same songs same volume before and after .
Before recapping I listened to two songs five times each.
using monocor capacitors .
patreon.com/StereoreviewX

Пікірлер: 187
@bigblueocean
@bigblueocean 2 ай бұрын
It's always a good day when Kelvin uploads a video. My favourite UK hifi channel. Not least because I can actually afford the items you usually feature. Cheers mate.
@thomaslarkin9791
@thomaslarkin9791 2 ай бұрын
And a perfect Sunday just got even better … another QUALITY UPLOAD by the main man himself Mr Kelvin we Salute 🫡 you Sir .. Thank you again for giving up your personal/ Private time to share the KNOWLEDGE… This is London Bermondsey calling 👍☮️👍
@mlblue5355
@mlblue5355 2 ай бұрын
Great video! It’s good to see you don’t turn your nose up on the vintage equipment. I think vintage equipment can be highly rewarding!
@stereoreviewx
@stereoreviewx 2 ай бұрын
Absolutely!
@korywaford6661
@korywaford6661 2 ай бұрын
Man, I love your videos. You explore the subject of Hi-fi in ways that are very relatable. In 2010, I rescued and restored a pair of Bozak b-4000 Symphonies from 1969. The cabinets were trash but the drivers had not been damaged. After a lengthy pursuit, I found a technician to recap the crossovers. I live in southeast Idaho, and had to go to Salt Lake City, Utah for this. The result was - and still is - a life-changing experience. I just wanted to restore them to as-built condition with no modifications. I play them on my Sansui AU-717 which I've lived with for 40 years and had rebuilt as well. I also love that vintage "thick" Sansui sound. I look forward to all of your future posts. Thank you and Cheers!
@andygee8716
@andygee8716 2 ай бұрын
Hi Kelvin. I used to work just up the road from Cricklewood Electronics back in the early 80s for a cctv company called Merrion Security Systems, based in a huge house on the corner of Walm Lane and Shoot Up Hill, (the A5). Good to know that they're still there after 40+ years. All the best, mate.
@stereoreviewx
@stereoreviewx 2 ай бұрын
yeah its surprising to find anything like this in London anymore hoorah
@IrenESorius
@IrenESorius 2 ай бұрын
Love the oil-change analogy,, 💖🥰💖
@andrehendrik
@andrehendrik 2 ай бұрын
"when she smiled she said it all" such a great track
@AlexMitchell-sj4sb
@AlexMitchell-sj4sb 2 ай бұрын
I did the same with my Mission Model 70 MK 2 and there was a slight difference, noticeable but like you say, doesn't change the fundamental characteristics.
@sp0001-i7g
@sp0001-i7g 2 ай бұрын
Exactly how I have found a few recaps I have done in the past. Had these Dittons a few years back they are ok ish for a 40 quid pair of speakers but nothing great I felt.
@marcparsons1726
@marcparsons1726 2 ай бұрын
Just recapped RCA (Radio Shack) speakers. Wow, wonderful cheap little speakers. Made a difference!
@budgetaudiophilelife-long5461
@budgetaudiophilelife-long5461 2 ай бұрын
🙋‍♂️ THANKS KELVIN ,FOR SHARING THIS FOR THE AUDIOPHILE COMMUNITY 🤗😎💚💚💚
@JukeboxAlley
@JukeboxAlley 17 күн бұрын
Your exactly right, alot of vintage speakers (and new ones after a few months) ive had to retighten the screws down because all them are usually loose.
@RobWhittlestone
@RobWhittlestone 2 ай бұрын
Nice video, Kelvin! A while ago I rewired my 30 year old Mission 700s and replaced the tweeters, tightened the bass drivers. When connected to my primary system, playing some harpsichord music I was well pleased with the performance. Maybe I should re-cap them now! All the best, Rob in Switzerland
@haycrossaudio5474
@haycrossaudio5474 2 ай бұрын
Nice one Kelv. Glad you did this in the end. It's funny how the capacitor on the tweeter circuit improves the bass. The woofer on those runs through an inductor only. It's all cohesive though. Never really liked Monacor caps. A bit hard for my liking. I always use SOLEN on these older speakers. Give the capacitors a good 20 hours playing and they will 'form' up and improve further. Well worth rewiring them to using decent copper cable. The old steel wire degrades the sound. Great video though. I've recently turned a pair of Ditton 15 into a compact BC1. Complete one off. They worked out really well. The series is on my channel if your interested.. Cheers. Matt
@mgsamps
@mgsamps 2 ай бұрын
I think he meant the bass improved after he turned the bass driver 90 deg and tightened up the screws. If not, Kelvin has much better hearing than me. Agree on the monacor caps, Solen's and Ansar supersound are much nicer.
@yo3429
@yo3429 2 ай бұрын
MKPs, no matter from whom, are absolutely fine for x-over networks. No need to spend more money for bloody expensive bling bling stuff, you simply can't hear any differ to 'better' caps when the values are identical. The ESR of MKPs is low enough and 250 V power handling way over the top and they last decades without fading. 20khz is more of a direct current range compared to high frequency applications. How well a crossover / capacitors 'sound' depends entirely on the overall construction. The best loudspeaker developers, some of whom I know personally, all use MKPs in critical areas. They are top and stand every double blind test. By the way, in the so-called high-end, the cheapest electrolytic capacitors are often used, B&W comes to mind.
@TheMildperil
@TheMildperil Ай бұрын
@@yo3429 I find a lot of MPKs shift the balance too much when replacing electrolytics and MKT caps in old speakers. Solens aren't the fastest or most detailed but they seem to preserve the balance better. Matt really knows his stuff and my experience backs it up.
@yo3429
@yo3429 Ай бұрын
@@TheMildperil way back in time, when my ears was young and able to hear 15 kHz+, I went through double blind testings with different caps. It was a manufacturer based test and lab certified. Yes, may there be a slight difference between electrolyt and foils, there was not a clear result at the end. None of the audiophile testers were able to identify which cap was switched. A slightly change of the head position while listening makes more difference. Coils on the other hand, specially iron core types with thin wire, were relative easy to identify when the speaker gets louder. No glue to be honest, how special 'oil' caps behave, but in the end it's just not relevant for a good constructed speaker.
@TheMildperil
@TheMildperil Ай бұрын
@@yo3429 I wish my experience bore that out. I've had to undo a work over the years with replacement caps that haven't suited certain designs. I've learnt the hard way. If it doesn't pass the listening test it doesn't go out of the door. The majority of my customers pick up the differences between caps very quickly.
@26Jorgeb
@26Jorgeb 2 ай бұрын
Thanks again Kelvin,much appreciated.You're one of my favorite vloggers in audio.
@Scotty8399
@Scotty8399 Ай бұрын
Been following this since COVID. he's the absolute best at this.
@23chilled
@23chilled Ай бұрын
The only time you will hear a night & day difference is recapping speakers with a multitude of elcap capacitors. Had speakers that sound ok-ish when first arrived (monitor audio ma9). Sound deterioted over the course of months until the point i thought drivers were toast. Luckily not my main speakers but used at my bench for background music. So pulled the crossovers out. Every cap was reading miles out. So bought a big bag of new caps. Fitted new and speakers came back to life. Sounded like a new pair of speakers.
@superkev
@superkev 2 ай бұрын
great video kelvin and for giving us a walk through in upgrading a speaker crossover and the positives from that thankyou😁
@stereoreviewx
@stereoreviewx Ай бұрын
Any time!
@Qq-x9447
@Qq-x9447 Ай бұрын
Excellent review / feature, etc, as always. Real world / everyman approach for those hoping to find their own path to audio nirvana. Always humorous & humane to those afflicted by the hifi bug. Solid advice without resorting to throwing shed loads of money at the problem. Big thumbs up 👍. ps. I agree with you 100% regarding Audio Gold, truly a very rare shop - I wish they were there when I started my quest for the perfect hifi set up 45+ years ago - would've saved me a lot of grief (and money).
@eazydraw4681
@eazydraw4681 2 ай бұрын
Another smashed it out of the park film thanks Kelvin , every upload you make brightens my day 😊
@ianstreeter5291
@ianstreeter5291 Ай бұрын
Keep the vids coming Kelvin best hi fi channel on youtube .
@westeagle00
@westeagle00 2 ай бұрын
A man after my own heart! Love your vids -thanks very much!
@mddawson1
@mddawson1 2 ай бұрын
I recently recapped a pair of 1994 NHT Super Zeros I got in an auction. The crossover is mounted on a circuit board fixed to the back of the speaker terminal block. They used two electrolytics in the crossover and the replacement polycaps were 6 times the size. Of course everything was covered in hot glued and the original caps got dented during removal but amazingly still measured perfectly. I had to fit one polycap on the back of the crossover board and refit the terminal block upside-down to clear the woofer magnet.
@gregsz1ful
@gregsz1ful Ай бұрын
Ken Kantor would say don't change capacitor types.
@mddawson1
@mddawson1 Ай бұрын
@@gregsz1ful I believe electrolytics are used in crossovers to save manufacturing costs, definitely not for audio quality.
@gregsz1ful
@gregsz1ful Ай бұрын
@@mddawson1 Thats true but ALSO a size and COST factor very important. speakers are optimized by listening and fine tuned. If you are willing to makes changes to values and carefully listen, you might have to change values to creat original intended sound.
@vincedebart
@vincedebart Ай бұрын
Great video as always you’ve got me thinking about recapping my Snell speakers
@analoglooney
@analoglooney Ай бұрын
Snell generally used very good quality parts in the first place and actually matched them to the individual drivers. When you bought a new bass driver, all the crossover parts came with it.
@JMJM75257
@JMJM75257 2 ай бұрын
Air core Inductors, polypropylene caps and non inductive resistors all make a difference. Polyethylene wiring and removal of all magnetic metal in the signal path is also good practice.
@analoglooney
@analoglooney Ай бұрын
Yes Danny.
@andygee8716
@andygee8716 2 ай бұрын
Hi again, mate. If you're ever down in South London, check out The Audio Centre in South Croydon. He specialises in vintage audio and on the premises repairs of all audio and video equipment. He's also won a few awards for servicing, especially open reel machines. Cheers again, fella.
@stereoreviewx
@stereoreviewx 2 ай бұрын
thanks
@karelvandervelden8819
@karelvandervelden8819 2 ай бұрын
Worth 10 nerdy measurement videos.
@allaboutkalergi5012
@allaboutkalergi5012 2 ай бұрын
Thanks Kelvin - I'm going to have a go with some Celestion DL6s - bought the parts last week. Already rotated the woofer. 👍👍
@stereoreviewx
@stereoreviewx Ай бұрын
Sounds great!
@VintageGearMan
@VintageGearMan Ай бұрын
Hope I find a pair of these this coming year.
@johnnyboy114
@johnnyboy114 Ай бұрын
Cheers for this Kelvin! I have some Ditton 15's that my Dad bought brand new back in '73. I have had them as my main speaker in spells over the past 30 years, on and off but now have them permanently, but semi retired, since his passing. And to be honest, I realise you aren't keen, but I do think these are one of those speakers that very much fall into the "subjective" category of liking them or not. No they aren't the pinnacle of hifi perfection, but for me, they were the sound I grew up with and I have a real, special bond with these speakers. Yes my Dali's and my Royd's are "better" speakers, the Royd's especially. But.....I could never get rid of the 15's as their sound to me hits so many emotional and sentimental spots for me. But....mine, as those ones were in the vid, absolutely standard and probably need all of the upgrades you mention here. So this was a very timely video. I shall seek out the bits, do the tweaks and give it a go! They might even come back into regular service again!
@Ricky-cl5bu
@Ricky-cl5bu 2 ай бұрын
I seal the drivers in with a gasket it makes a good difference 😊
@FLH3official
@FLH3official 2 ай бұрын
I've a pair of these Ditton 15 in my bassment. They were the rear speakers of my grandfather's setup, a Marantz 4270 with Dittons 66 on front and Dittons 15 for the rear. Yeah, remember, the years of the "Quad will be the future!" 😄 Today the 4270 and the 66s are in my living room as my day to day stereo. (I switched the 4270 to 2x70w). One of these days I will plug again these Dittons 15, I've an old Pioneer of the same period, they could fit in my studio as a spare "vintage listening system".
@stereoreviewx
@stereoreviewx 2 ай бұрын
yes I had a quad marantz for a while quite a head scratcher just used in stereo eventually
@FLH3official
@FLH3official 2 ай бұрын
@@stereoreviewx For the 4270, the only I know, for setting it in stereo (=dividing its power in 2 and not in 4), you have a little black switch in the back. Hence you get 2x70w and not 4x25 (or 4x30, don't remember)
@gregsz1ful
@gregsz1ful Ай бұрын
Many speaker designers would say don't change capacitor types as you are changing design. Couple tips beside usual measuring. Always do one speaker at a time to compare results. You can also use clip leads to compare sound of two types. Changing things can also change polar response so listen up and down or better measure.
@seanb3303
@seanb3303 2 ай бұрын
Andrew Jones once gave away a design secret he learned at KEF…which is tighten the driver…and then loosen the screw a half turn. It reduced resonance by a measurable amount according to AJ
@mgsamps
@mgsamps 2 ай бұрын
It can depending on the driver, makes more of a difference with mid range drivers at around 800 Hz where the resonance of the cone can transfer to the cab, especially with lower quality drive units.
@seanb3303
@seanb3303 2 ай бұрын
@@mgsamps FWIW, Andrew did this with his high end TAD speakers…with his ELAC speakers he just wanted everything tight as he knew the packages would be handled roughly.
@darrellbach6749
@darrellbach6749 2 ай бұрын
Thank you. i have a pair of realistic mach 2 speakers amercian 1984 need to refoam surrounds and a recapping. my kef 101 and 102 are old from 1990 and still great original condition really sound good. i must say the British make high quality audio.
@greenlanternseven
@greenlanternseven 2 ай бұрын
If I can comb my hair I can recap a speaker. ..hee hee hee that's funny Kelvin cause I have no hair lol , Love the vids good sir and if you really want to improve those older speakers remove those terrible wood screws and replace with t nuts and bolt screws and consider the "Royd Audio "technology and use pvc pipe filled with anti acoustic caulking for dampening and put these behind each speaker driver having their magnets sit in the caulking as this will wic away all distortion that starts in the magnet ...I have done this to my B&W V201s and it made a remarkable improvement and I haven't even touched the crossover yet...seriously recommended as the improvement is cheap and very effective also change the internal wire to a better quality preferably solid core and make sure they are soldered in and not plugged in ...have a great day Kelvin
@PlaybackMansion
@PlaybackMansion 2 ай бұрын
This is exactly what I wanted to know
@laurentzduba1298
@laurentzduba1298 2 ай бұрын
I remember doing a similar capacitor "upgrade" back in 1995 using a Solen audio grade polypropylene capacitor. Musicality and detail improved in an almost magical way given the relatively modest cost of the Solen caps at the time.
@stereoreviewx
@stereoreviewx 2 ай бұрын
I bet
@vandarlay
@vandarlay 2 ай бұрын
Kelvin, totally agree on recapping. Didn't do it on the speakers since all the paires that I own are fairly new but on vintage receivers and amplifiers - both pre and amp sections. Started with a Sansui AU 217 to see if it will be "better" afterwards. A bit more power and clarity on tone controlls. A lot more to say on this but I will stop since is a controversial topic.
@stereoreviewx
@stereoreviewx 2 ай бұрын
I know mate
@mikesaunders4694
@mikesaunders4694 2 ай бұрын
Changing an Alcap for a film cap will probably slightly change the sound signature anyway as they would have been voiced using Alcaps. Would’ve been interesting to have tested the original cap’s ESR and capacitance with something like a peak esr70 to see if they were out of spec and if so how far. I’ve had mixed results when Ive replaced old caps sometimes better but sometimes “thinner” sound.
@haycrossaudio5474
@haycrossaudio5474 2 ай бұрын
You really have to be careful replacing electrolytic's with film caps. It really depends where they are in circuit. People don't understand the effects of different ESR. Electrolytic capacitors in shunt replaced with film caps can cause impedance issues. If you fit them in place of electrolytic's in series circuits sometimes the drivers plays louder. Really a speaker needs voice with capacitors being used. Ive worked on many Ditton 15. Film caps always improve the tweeter circuit. Other Dittons like the 44 don't fair well with film capacitors on the midrange and woofer circuits but on the HF absolutely
@mikesaunders4694
@mikesaunders4694 2 ай бұрын
@@haycrossaudio5474 Yes generally I’ve used new Alcaps from Falcon except as you say for the tweeter.
@haycrossaudio5474
@haycrossaudio5474 2 ай бұрын
@@mikesaunders4694 ALCAPs and SOLEN capacitors are my go to
@qazsed417
@qazsed417 2 ай бұрын
I have had this experience recently, bought some Monacor film caps as per se the video. I recapped the mid and tweeter of some Ditton 66s. The midrange and especially voices sounded very closed in afterwards, completely ruined the sound of the speakers. I will take your advice and replace the mid range caps back to electrolytic. Have you ever used Mundorf Ecap’s for this application? I wonder if they would be a step up from the alcaps 😊
@haycrossaudio5474
@haycrossaudio5474 2 ай бұрын
@@qazsed417 The Ditton 44 and 66 have been a niche for me for a long time. Fitting polypropylene capacitors to the midrange and woofer circuits ruins them. ALCAPS work really well. Solen capacitors on the tweeter circuit though brings out a bit more detail and space.
@davegleeful
@davegleeful 2 ай бұрын
Thanks
@stereoreviewx
@stereoreviewx 2 ай бұрын
Thank you Dave
@TonyJBrennan
@TonyJBrennan Ай бұрын
did set of wharfedale e50's - totally cleaned up the midrange which was recessed and flat / dull sounding . still not fully there though so suspect the 30 year old amp may be next .
@iancatchpole5223
@iancatchpole5223 2 ай бұрын
Hey Kelvin, your now on the vibe, Monocor is a respected company and I've changed the character of a few speaker systems using there reasonably priced products .. cross overs .Enjoy the music..I do every day. For your Fans there's a stunning album they should here.. 'A common thread " songs of the Eagles.. Enjoy my friends ..❤ god bless you all, brothers and sisters... And everything In between..
@philwalker2265
@philwalker2265 Ай бұрын
Kelvin, another fantastic video. What about 80's speakers review?
@SuperMcgenius
@SuperMcgenius 2 ай бұрын
Better parts always help, higher grade resistors will be an audible upgrade for a few dollars a few braces would help.
@MisterBurtonshaw
@MisterBurtonshaw 2 ай бұрын
Considered putting new caps in my AR18Ss... tested the old ones and they were still in spec.
@crossoverchef
@crossoverchef 2 ай бұрын
I have a crossover upgrade kit for these that go beyond a re-cap.
@qazsed417
@qazsed417 2 ай бұрын
What’s the kit? What does it consist of? Any improvements?
@NackDSP
@NackDSP Ай бұрын
If your recap, use capacitors with the same ESR and capacitance. Small changes in resistance can throw off the original crossover design. If your speakers are old enough for a recap, the crossover is very likely not very good, so you might design your own. I recently did that with my Ohm L speakers. The original crossover was total crap.
@kymvalleygardensdesign5350
@kymvalleygardensdesign5350 2 ай бұрын
Brilliant nice job.
@stereoreviewx
@stereoreviewx Ай бұрын
Many thanks!
@AllboroLCD
@AllboroLCD 2 ай бұрын
With some research one could even upgrade x-over caps aside from just replacing what was there and really level up the SQ.
@rolfvonmega3658
@rolfvonmega3658 2 ай бұрын
Hi Kelvin. Thanks again for a REAL opinion on HiFi. You are the most genuine reviewer I have ever seen.
@stereoreviewx
@stereoreviewx Ай бұрын
thanks
@andygee8716
@andygee8716 2 ай бұрын
Hi Kelvin. Check out a guy called Yves Carbonne and his albums; Seven Waves and Tales Of The Reconstruction. Much respect. Andy
@Ricky-cl5bu
@Ricky-cl5bu 2 ай бұрын
Brilliant 😊
@graemeyetts3465
@graemeyetts3465 2 ай бұрын
Car oil change was a good analogy.🎉
@progvinyl9021
@progvinyl9021 25 күн бұрын
Good channel 👍
@seaman5705
@seaman5705 2 ай бұрын
Try BangOlufsen S70 , with capacitor renewed in their sweetest spot .
@benpatana7664
@benpatana7664 2 ай бұрын
An easy job when the components are nice and accessible! Beware some speakers where it is very hard to access the crossovers.
@mgsamps
@mgsamps 2 ай бұрын
Yeah, I just did a minor x-over modification on some Elac Unifi Ref's, Elac really didn't want anyone going inside those for sure.
@stereoreviewx
@stereoreviewx 2 ай бұрын
yes I tried it too
@TheAgeOfAnalog
@TheAgeOfAnalog 2 ай бұрын
Nice! I prefer doing one first, then doing an A/B L/R comparison, using a mono signal of course.
@stereoreviewx
@stereoreviewx Ай бұрын
fair point
@garysmith8455
@garysmith8455 2 ай бұрын
Very nice presentation! Here in NEW England USA, I know a pair of MATHMOS lamps when I see 'em ! (O:
@stereoreviewx
@stereoreviewx Ай бұрын
correct
@richardjohnston4682
@richardjohnston4682 2 ай бұрын
Kelvin,there must be some modern speakers that do the business. Like to see a few of those!
@stereoreviewx
@stereoreviewx 2 ай бұрын
im sure there is
@robertballard8833
@robertballard8833 Ай бұрын
think you figured out my climate controlled '93 Cerwin Vega 120s sounded so much better than a a pair I had around the same tine that were used outside in a barn and stored in a garage. Foam surrounds were both good, but the sound was completely different . he caps were probably bad in the outside pair stored in the heat and cold.
@Ejlectronics6
@Ejlectronics6 2 ай бұрын
I always hated the Ditton's back binding posts. These are incredibly easy to replace too, with some solid banana plug terminals if you prefer that. Also, Haycross Audio on KZfaq is worth a visit if you're into vintage speaker recapping. He's a British fellow that has done a ton of these including a one off build for the Celestion Ditton 15's.
@stereoreviewx
@stereoreviewx Ай бұрын
yes those binding posts can sap the will to live
@mikaeleriksson3097
@mikaeleriksson3097 2 ай бұрын
Hi Kelvin! I had the Celestion 120. Maybe the same as Ditton 15? It has the same tweater and passive radiator. And it had the sweatest midrange I have heard. But you have to have them up om the wall. Not in free space.
@guystewart9554
@guystewart9554 2 ай бұрын
treble provides the edges to the bass and this gives more definition and attack.
@stereoreviewx
@stereoreviewx 2 ай бұрын
I think so
@shaharshaked
@shaharshaked Ай бұрын
I suggest you test the old capacitor Capacitance. If it's not 12yF (give or take a few percent), It's faulty and needed to be replaced anyway. If it is with in range, well now were entering the land of snake oils and Psychoacoustics which is also interesting.
@dittonworks
@dittonworks 2 ай бұрын
Nice experiment. I possibly would have just changed like for like on the cap, as polys can make older Ditton’s sound a bit hard.
@hueyw1916
@hueyw1916 2 ай бұрын
Really interesting vid. I've recapped a few pairs of speakers and my experience is very similar, but as I understand it (and i may well be wrong) in a simple crossover design, that capacitor is essentially just a frequency filter (my own terminology) that protects the tweeter from receiving the whole, potentially damaging, frequency range. I am therefore puzzled why this would make the bass sound better? Perhaps its just the general fuzziness of the frequencies sloshing around the drivers that disappears when fresh caps are introduced? If someone more knowledgable could enlighten me I'd appreciate it!
@stereoreviewx
@stereoreviewx 2 ай бұрын
I think your right the top end is so cleaned the top end leaving the bass more forward the forward edge of the bass are more crisp
@VintageGearMan
@VintageGearMan Ай бұрын
I would be scared to recap JBL L19 speakers though.
@Douglas_Blake_579
@Douglas_Blake_579 2 ай бұрын
Grab a free copy of the Room EQ Wizard ... and you can easily measure the difference.
@davidteague3849
@davidteague3849 Ай бұрын
Did you measure the drift in capacitance of the old caps you removed? NPE caps do drift / wander over time. In anycase replacing with PP will provide longevity
@briancampbell7712
@briancampbell7712 2 ай бұрын
nice video Calvin... I am going to buy a pair of Tannoy Arden Mkl👌before there are no more...have you heard them...what brand is the lava lamp?
@stereoreviewx
@stereoreviewx Ай бұрын
mathimos
@pjrove
@pjrove 2 ай бұрын
Did you consider recapping just one of the speakers? It might be easier to judge any change that way, although I suppose each speaker could sound slightly different to begin with!
@michaelvincent8306
@michaelvincent8306 2 ай бұрын
I have a recapped sansui au 101 and a pair off spendor bc1 both a big improvement on before you just need to find a good professional didn't cost me much 60 quid for the amp 200 on my speakers great video but I'm crap at soldering 😅😅😅
@IvanToman
@IvanToman 2 ай бұрын
What you said about bass changes proves that what you have heard is only placebo. It is not possible to anyhow affect bass response by changing the only capacitor in the crossover, because it is tweeter capacitor and no smallest amount of the signal goes through it to the woofer driver. Unless you had a air leakage and fixed that by rescrewing the terminal plate to the enclosure, or changed something similar, it is 100% placebo.
@Grommet2007
@Grommet2007 2 ай бұрын
Agreed.
@stereoreviewx
@stereoreviewx 2 ай бұрын
well I wish you were in the room with me
@Grommet2007
@Grommet2007 2 ай бұрын
@@stereoreviewx I don't doubt that you heard a difference. What I doubt is that the change you made caused the difference that you heard. I've done my own "recap" testing with an old speaker, first making sure that the "old" capacitor matched its published specs, and could hear no difference at all. Not surprising, as measuring the speaker's impedance curve and its frequency response on an off-axis showed little or no difference in performance. For some background, I've been DIYing speakers for about oh, 35 years or so.
@mgsamps
@mgsamps 2 ай бұрын
@@Grommet2007 Changing an NP cap for an MKT on the tweeter can give the impression it's much clearer because of higher ESR on the NP, in most cases it will have cleaner more pronounced treble but sound a little thinner and lose attack.
@analoglooney
@analoglooney Ай бұрын
100% correct.
@shaneonpole
@shaneonpole 2 ай бұрын
I wonder how an electrolytic capacitor would have sounded instead of the polypropylene...maybe you could do a comparison?
@markcarrington8565
@markcarrington8565 2 ай бұрын
Not sure why you would want a comparison with an electrolytic cap in a crossover circuit. Most people do their best to remove electrolytic caps from the signal path due to the very obvious issues they cause. Not to mention their finite shelf life.
@qazsed417
@qazsed417 2 ай бұрын
Recently recapped some Ditton 66s with film caps, it completely ruined the midrange, will be changothem back to electrolytics when I get a chance. Obviously the crossovers were designed with ESR characteristics of electrolytic capacitors
@markcarrington8565
@markcarrington8565 2 ай бұрын
@@qazsed417 I would only use poly caps in a crossover. Jantzen or Mundorf by preference with Robert Hovland bypass caps if it’s a good quality speaker. Expensive but worth it.
@analoglooney
@analoglooney Ай бұрын
@@qazsed417 Use Mundorf bi-polar electrolytics. Much better than alcaps and won't ruin the balance. I use them all the time in vintage speakers and they sound excellent.
@trevorcourt1403
@trevorcourt1403 Ай бұрын
I recapped my dynaudio speakers with mundorf resistors & some fancy Mundorf supreme’s, I didn’t notice a difference tbh
@stereoreviewx
@stereoreviewx Ай бұрын
Interesting I would guess the Dianne audio may had better in the first place and younger
@trevorcourt1403
@trevorcourt1403 Ай бұрын
@@stereoreviewx no i don't think they were anything special in the dyns, the original components anyway. but i did expect more from the mundorfs. they have a lot of hours on them now, but maybe better electronics would yield better results
@asterixx6878
@asterixx6878 29 күн бұрын
I don't understand how the bass can be affected by the new capacitor? The fact that there are two coils and a capacitor in the crossover, indicates that the tweeter has a second-order filter (coil and capacitor) and the bass a first-order filter. So, changing the capacitor cannot affect the base!
@stereoreviewx
@stereoreviewx 28 күн бұрын
well yourr not the first to say that but done this twice also to kef cantor and it just does . there are some technical people who can explain this
@asterixx6878
@asterixx6878 28 күн бұрын
@@stereoreviewx It may be that the capacitor change has caused the treble level to change in relation to the bass, or that the basses were loose and now sit as they should. Shorted capacitors can lower the speaker's impedance, but that's another story🙂
@AudioGuyBrian
@AudioGuyBrian 2 ай бұрын
A frequency sweep measurement graph would have been better. Sure you can tell the difference with your ears, but how much of a difference is impossible to know for us viewers without a graph, or some kind of scientific before/after graph. On-Axis, Off-Axis, bass related cabinet ringing (Decay), crossover points and peaks and valleys. Just saying "It sounded better" is something I say after cleaning the wax out of my ears, not after making electronic changes to gear.
@rompstar
@rompstar 2 ай бұрын
so how would a capacitor give the speaker more bass ? since it's job is to protect the tweeter and cut off low frequencies ? how did you hear more bass ? maybe when you tighten the screws ?
@CarlVanDoren61
@CarlVanDoren61 2 ай бұрын
Crazy is as crazy does 60" true ribbon tweeter Path Audio 1.2R 10w 😊
@analogueman5364
@analogueman5364 2 ай бұрын
Psychological. You've replaced a part with a new one - the brain is expecting it to sound better so it does.
@stereoreviewx
@stereoreviewx 2 ай бұрын
I didn't even undo the bass driver when I did this it came out from the back . I tightened bass driver separately later
@rompstar
@rompstar 2 ай бұрын
@@stereoreviewx but capacitors don't work on the woofers, especially in that simple crossover... if anything it makes the tweeter sound better, so maybe the bass is coming through better than before ;)
@assafshmueli
@assafshmueli 2 ай бұрын
Did you let the caps break in?
@analoglooney
@analoglooney 2 ай бұрын
Hi Kelvin. I've been repairing hifi for some 35+ years now. I don't like to be critical but that capacitor only serves the HF1300 tweeter along with an inductor as the high pass filter. There is one inductor on the bass driver which is the low pass filter. I find it hard to believe that changing that capacitor can have any effect whatsoever on the bass and/or how deep it goes. Tightening the screws yes, but changing that capacitor cannot effect the bass as it is not in the bass circuit. 🙂
@stereoreviewx
@stereoreviewx 2 ай бұрын
I did the tightening up separately deliberately
@amok281
@amok281 2 ай бұрын
Kelvin, any relation to Christian Horner of Red Bull F1 fame?
@stereoreviewx
@stereoreviewx Ай бұрын
He is my father Luke
@amok281
@amok281 Ай бұрын
BTW the caps may improve a little with break in making the job slightly better still. A nice affordable way to improve/revive a vintage item!
@jimdavis5230
@jimdavis5230 2 ай бұрын
Was the capacitor in the low pass filter to the woofer or the high pass filter to the tweeter?
@stereoreviewx
@stereoreviewx 2 ай бұрын
its the tweeter apparently but it cleans up the whole sound
@sergiobisonte
@sergiobisonte 2 ай бұрын
Coils block high freq, caps block low freq. You have coil on a driver so it plays up to X freq. You have caps on tweeter so it play from X freq. And you can have a coil/cap on a driver so it plays from X to Y
@stevengagnon4777
@stevengagnon4777 Ай бұрын
​@@sergiobisontethis would only be true in a first order cross over with the coils and caps in series.
@aaronlove3263
@aaronlove3263 Ай бұрын
North London? Gunners or Spurs?
@stereoreviewx
@stereoreviewx Ай бұрын
don't start
@D1N02
@D1N02 2 ай бұрын
I wonder how replacing a capacitor gives you more bass since it is very likely in the tweeter circuit. So it's function is to filter out the lower frequencies to the tweeter. I've seen this behaviour reported before in a capacitor replacement.
@peterlarkin762
@peterlarkin762 2 ай бұрын
Yes was wondering the same. The signal for the woofer is not influenced at all by that cap!
@paulgee6111
@paulgee6111 2 ай бұрын
Because as the capacitor fails the tweeter will start producing more volume in the bass frequencies of it's lower range which due to phase differences with the same frequencies being produced by the mid/bass driver at the upper end of it's frequency range cause cancellation and hence a dip in the overall frequency response in lower mid and upper bass. The tweeter "trying to play bass" will likely be distorting those bassier notes so will also be introducing some muddiness in the lower regions. Nobody wants that!😁
@analoglooney
@analoglooney 2 ай бұрын
@@paulgee6111 It would have to be seriously out of spec to do that by at least 100% and would almost certainly damaged the tweeter by now. I don't buy it.
@paulgee6111
@paulgee6111 2 ай бұрын
@@analoglooney Well of course it's a matter of degree but 50 yr old capacitors can fail completely and tweeters do blow. There are many variables and in some cases the defective cap may not make much difference. If, for example, the listener usually listens at low volume the tweeter may handle the extra bass but high volumes may be too much for it.
@analoglooney
@analoglooney 2 ай бұрын
@@paulgee6111 Very true, but most capacitors diminish in value and increase their resistance as they age, effectively crossing the tweeter over higher and protecting it more. I have seen some old elcaps doing strange things though. Most tweeters are destroyed by bone heads.🙂
@sergiobisonte
@sergiobisonte 2 ай бұрын
more bass how? that capaciitor is only filtering low frequencys from the tweeter... you can put the same capacitor, the new capacitor, or have no capacitor at all, and the bass driver will play the same.... the bass driver does not even see that capacitor in the circuit... maybe the tweeter is so much clearer now that makes you think the bass is better too.. its the 'new oil' effect..
@analoglooney
@analoglooney 2 ай бұрын
Exactly so. I pointed that out too. A capacitor in the high pass filter cannot effect the bass. 👍
@stereoreviewx
@stereoreviewx 2 ай бұрын
well it was pretty clear to me am gonna do the kef cantor next
@analoglooney
@analoglooney 2 ай бұрын
@@stereoreviewx Be careful Kelvin and do some homework first. Those old bipolar electrolytics had voltage loss, reactance and ESR values that are nothing like modern poly capacitors. All those parameters were calculated into the circuit by very clever engineers. New capacitors, unless bipolar electrolytics, will skew the balance. Mundorf make some excellent bipolar types which work a treat in older speakers.
@stereoreviewx
@stereoreviewx 2 ай бұрын
Well you know this was so obvious to hear maybe something else is going on apart from the obvious . The end result was a definite improvement
@sergiobisonte
@sergiobisonte 2 ай бұрын
@@stereoreviewx im sure it did a big improvement.. but the bass driver doesn't even know there is a capacitor in the system... if you play music and cut the cap off, the tweeter will stop and the bass driver will continue playing unchanged... but like I said... now you have a clearer tweeter with less low frequencies mixing with the bass driver, so the overall system sounds better
@christophero1969
@christophero1969 2 ай бұрын
UNfortunately, there is now proof in this video, SOUND CLIPS ARE REQUIRED.
@stereoreviewx
@stereoreviewx 2 ай бұрын
I’m gonna do some more Speakers next week and I will try and do it. Record the sound but things change so much by the time it comes out the other end. On KZfaq, I mean
@daniellewis4226
@daniellewis4226 2 ай бұрын
If you are going to recap, use as expensive parts as you can afford, if you want it to make a real difference, also in older speakers replacing the internal wiring which will be crappie is worthwhile. Some quality OCC copper, litz if you can or even silver will make it even better. Replace iron ferrite core inductors for air cores of the same values.
@tonyperring
@tonyperring 2 ай бұрын
If funds allow copper foil inductors make an astonishing difference.
@matthewtaylor7355
@matthewtaylor7355 2 ай бұрын
Jantzen silver z caps will most likely better those China based? type caps which r available from ali for 7gbp including p n p
@SounduSleep
@SounduSleep 2 ай бұрын
You're right up to a point, beyond that the marketing men have bamboozled you
@analoglooney
@analoglooney 2 ай бұрын
Yeah... to a point but you clearly haven't understood that bipolar electrolytics and super duper poly caps are not the same in ESR, reactance or voltage loss, so just changing everything for the sake of it without re-calculating the crossover is for non enginneers. Internal wiring we can agree upon. Air core inductors have far more resistance due to the length of wire needed to obtain the same inductance. This will put a series resistor in line which wasn't there before. Again, it has to be calculated. Just because it's the same value, it does not have the same properties.
@analoglooney
@analoglooney 2 ай бұрын
@@SounduSleep Agreed, and any change in esr in the capacitors or resistance in the inductors must be calculated.
@vincentliu5
@vincentliu5 2 ай бұрын
Thanks!
@stereoreviewx
@stereoreviewx 2 ай бұрын
thanks a Lot K
@haycrossaudio5474
@haycrossaudio5474 2 ай бұрын
Nice one Kelv. Glad you did this in the end. It's funny how the capacitor on the tweeter circuit improves the bass. The woofer on those runs through an inductor only. It's all cohesive though. Never really liked Monacor caps. A bit hard for my liking. I always use SOLEN on these older speakers. Give the capacitors a good 20 hours playing and they will 'form' up and improve further. Well worth rewiring them to using decent copper cable. The old steel wire degrades the sound. Great video though. I've recently turned a pair of Ditton 15 into a compact BC1. Complete one off. They worked out really well. The series is on my channel if your interested.. Cheers. Matt
@georgebliss964
@georgebliss964 2 ай бұрын
I had the later Ditton 15XR, and the tweeter cap.was only 4.7uF instead of 12uF. Did Celestion change the tweeter, or just its 2nd order filter design?
@haycrossaudio5474
@haycrossaudio5474 2 ай бұрын
@@georgebliss964 The Ditton 15 XR is still a 1st order low pass on the woofer and 2nd order high pass on the tweeter but completely different drivers. The XR (extended range) used the HF1001 tweeter. That could play up to 20kHz. The HF1300 in the original Ditton 15 rolled off at 13kHz. Hence the name. The 15 XR is the better speaker but not in the HF range. The HF1300 whilst limited in its high frequency extension is much more naturally sounding. Yes crossover component values are different to.
@stereoreviewx
@stereoreviewx 2 ай бұрын
yes I saw that one i bet it sounds great hf 1300 such a winner the dm4 s work so well (different driver not kef I know ) I can imagine that size box with b200 plus hf 1300 gives a super midrange
@haycrossaudio5474
@haycrossaudio5474 2 ай бұрын
@@stereoreviewx Thanks Kelv. The B200 works really well with the HF1300 and Coles super tweeter. In the past I've use the B200 to replace blown Spendor BC1 woofers with really good results. A bit of crossover work needed but it's a good substitute. Cheers. Matt
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