Whats your opinion on changing the "lifetime" fluid that comes in the ZF 8 speed transmissions found in chrysler products?

Even if it's never been changed on a high mileage car?

@@JonDoe-007 The reasoning behind the belief that changing very old transmission fluid is bad, lies in the method used. For several decades (and still common today) the method of choice was to use a "flush" machine. This method involves hooking up the machine to the transmission cooling lines. The machine then forces or "pressures" new fluid in and in doing so forces or "pressures" old fluid out. Now its important to understand that this has been done problem free probably millions of times. It is by far the most common method and 99% of the time works great. What can happen (in the right circumstance) is more a result of negligence and lack of maintenance. Very old transmission fluid (never been changed or rarely) will have clutch material and other metals from normal wear. Things like vehicle age, type of use, driving style, average temperature, and quality of transmission will all affect how much. But rest assured EVERY transmission (auto or manual) wears down. This "material" is ideally caught in the transmission filter or in many transmissions, on magnets (usually built into the pan) or both. But since filters don't last forever and can only hold so much debris, very old (or poorly maintenanced) filters are of course less effective. The two scenarios where "flushing" could be detrimental are these. By using the flush machine and forcing fluid through the valve train (which looks like a miniature corn maze with very narrow passages) there's a chance that a piece of debris could end up blocking (either fully or partially) one of the passages. This can result in shifting problems or other performance issues. The second scenario (and IMO the more likely) is someone never changes transmission fluid on their vehicle. The transmission is already worn out and is on its last legs. Then the person starts to notice the first small signs of transmission problems. They begin to experience harsh shifts or some slipping on steep hills ect. In response they decide to have the fluid changed (maybe first time in 15 years). The trouble is that the old fluid has so much debris in it, that the debris actually helps the clutches grab. Imagine putting your hands into water and rubbing them together, pretty easy not much resistance or friction right?. Now imagine dumping some sand into the water and stirring it around. When you rub your hands together this time, you feel the sand between your hands. The sand will create extra friction and makes your hands "stick" together a little more. For those few who have experienced one (or possibly a combo of both) of these scenarios, they are left angry and with an expensive repair bill. In there mind getting the change was a terrible idea that ruined there transmission. The truth of course is that at that point the transmission was inevitably going to fail... the flush exasperated an existing problem. These types of scenarios wouldn't happen if people did proper maintenance and 95% of the time the fault is a neglectful owner. Bad news travels fast and hard so the rumors of flushes causing problems spread fast and hard. Therefor the frequency of this scenario is probably greatly exaggerated. If you ask a transmission shop how often they have encountered this outcome, my guess would be not often. Today alot of shops have a different machine known as an "EXCHANGE" machine. Rather than hooking up to your cooling lines it simply places a wand into your pan (usually through your fill plug). The machine then pumps in 1 liter of fluid.... then pumps out 1 liter. This machine relies on your vehicles transmission pump to continue moving fluid. Over about 30-45 mins it pumps in/out around 15 liters of fluid. There is no added "pressure" since its your own pump moving the fluid. This method could help in the first scenario of not blocking a valve train passage. But the second scenario would be no different as your still changing all your fluid

@@jonh2408 life time is NOT the entire life of the car. Manufacturers idea of 'lifetime' is till the next model comes out... ALWAYS SERVICE THE TRANS OIL!

Indeed been working on cars since the 1970s 👍

As a mechanic, I would also agree with this advice but these days, don't trust your owner's manuals default drive maintenance schedule. Ford, Lincoln, Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep, Fiat, BMW, Volvo, etc... all will tell you to not worry about changing your transmission fluid until 150K miles, or for the life of the transmission. Some will say that you never need to change it. This is absolute hogwash. If you plan to keep your car longer than 2 or 3 years, then you should be changing your fluid at least every 20-30K miles. If you've hit something like 45K miles and still haven't changed it, don't think that if you change it now, it will cause your transmission to eat itself... You're likely fine. However, if you follow the maintenance schedule in your owners manual and wait until 150+K miles to change it, well, you're asking for trouble, and you'll be lucky if you make it another 50K miles. As @howlinhog mentioned, there is likely sediment, deposits, and other crud in there that will certainly get freed up and make it's way into your transmission valve body, which can fail it. Even worse, if the sediment in your fluid was acting as a friction supplement to your worn out clutch-packs, your transmission could start to slip once all that's left is clean, sediment free fluid. Manufacturers want you to believe that their vehicles are low maintenance compared to everyone else but the truth is, mechanics and physics is well, mechanics and physics. Their standard service schedules aren't going to change that. The better maintenance schedule is often the fleet schedule. Fluid changes and flushes prevent issues, they don't usually solve them.

@brianbutts575 Ŵell said friend. Many times maintenance recommendations are no more than a marketing scheme. Engine oil is a good one. Although engine oil needs to have good lubricating qualities, one of its major functions is to keep particles that occur from burning gasoline suspended until they can reach the oil filter. Nobody gets to not have that happen no matter what the engine oil is made from or how good it is. People need to stop believing this crap about longer engine oil intervals when you're still burning the same old fuel.

i have a 2010 ford f150 4.6l v8. it runs super smooth. bought off private seller. i want to flush it but scared it will mess it up. should I do it? should i check the fluid first and see before doing anything?

@@fliptop555 Do the service. No matter what, if it hasn't been done, it needs to be done! You don't necessarily have to do a flush, but at least do a filter and fluid change. If there is damage inside your trans due to neglect it will rear it's ugly head sooner or later no matter what you do. Removing the pan and taking apart the filter to look inside will tell quite a bit. Even professional shops don't take the extra step of taking apart the filter and cutting the filter membrane to look inside. If you've ever owned a bag style vacuum, you know that pulling the bag out and throwing it in the trash has revealed nothing about its contents. If you want to know what's in it you have to cut it open and spread it out.

@@howlinhog thank you! I will be checking all of that soon. If it's burnt up I will stick to doing a change and replace the filter and fluid in pan only

Excellent!

No comment about how the flush was done in the video! a COMPLETE 90% flush for a tranny means TC fluid is changed also. This is how you do it without harm.

@@yosquidd242 how much fluid is replaced makes no difference harm wise. the manner in which the flush is done is what can cause harm. I would rather do a flush twice and do it safely then do it once in an unsafe manner. also remember a shop like say one I used to work at, would charge for a 7qt flush to keep the cost competitive. but how much does your transmission hold? could be as much as 10 or even 15 qts so did they really flush 90% of the fluid? theres a lot of shops that do this but might be set at different capped amounts. fluids can be expensive and people tend to be cheap so they get away with this kind of thing all the time.

There is no such thing as a "back-flush". Any shop or mechanic who says they can do a back flush is either a complete moron or a criminal. The filter pops off? Damn dude, sounds like your experience came from your couch.

I did this on a 1992 Volvo, and it turned out well.

I have a 2002 Saturn SL2 I took it to Pep Boys to try and do a transmission oil and filter change but they told me they highly recommend that I do not do it because then the transmission will be ruined because I have over a hundred thousand miles on the car, are the mechanics at Pep Boys correct?

@@andrewmanzi2969 there not mechanics. If you think they are your very wrong

@@andrewmanzi2969 - take it to an auto trans specialist and they will look after it.

@@andrewmanzi2969 Only 100,000 miles on it? Change it! Pretty sure the Saturn's have an external spin-on trans filter just like an oil filter. You can likely do it yourself. Idk if they have a drain plug. If they do, DIY. Regardless, definitely change it and change it now!

I'm your professional opinion on an old 98 z28 auto with 152k and no idea when the last tranny service was but the fluid isn't filthy what recommendations would you have? She shifts well driving but does take a moment to shift from park to D or between D and R however she's always shifted like this since I owned it @ 98k and acted consistent since 2010 when I bought her.. She's had 8 owners I believe lol well used car but the only car I've never had break down or have a check engine.

I had a GMC dealer drain and refill the transmission and transfer transmission on my all wheel drive 2010 GMC Acadia at 90,000 miles. The service manual says "check" transmission fluid. I thought I was doing the right thing by changing the fluid. 10 days later a soft whine developed above 40 mph. GMC dealer said transmission is shot. Got second opinion from another GMC dealer who said transfer case transmission is shot. I have been driving with soft whine for 23,000 miles. Shifts as before, just fine. The whine sound is the same. Is there a fix?

Thanks for that tip, a fuel filter is an easy,smart thing to replace.gas tanks do accumulate crud, dust, guck, ect.

Thanks for the advice! You are Awesome!!

Well if you are ASE certtified in automatic transmissions then yo I would know that running the engine with no return fluid is running the lubrication circuit dry and starving the bushings, Torrington bearings etc. This is NOT an approved method of "flushing" an automatic transmission. 😳

Im on it! Thanks for the heads up!👍

was screwed up before you changed. makes since to me.

yep hes not wrong. what happens is said fluid was gritty/thick so the transmission was holding on because of that. so sometimes its better to just not touch it if it has not been done and your way up in the millage as they can hold out for quite some time if its already really bad.

The reason is all the metal and clutch material in the fluid is acting like a friction modifier. If your clutches and steels are trashed the only thing keeping it shifting is the grit in the oil . Change the oil loose the grip slip city

@lemon diesel the out come is the same if the fluid you are removing is full of metals from the clutch ,and you replace enough of the fluid to remove the grit that is holding on the car then it will slip. Its where the the transmission flush ruined my tranny that was still shifting fine storys come from. If you change your fluid early enough it doesnt matter what you use its just that a flush removes almost all of it.where a simple drain does about 20% or so at a time in alot of automatic trans. so it can take a good bit of drains and refills to get a similar result

yes

Just get some Lucas to add in with the new fluid

Perfect Prime Example

That is exactly what happened to me and our 2004 Suburban. 150k on the clock, changed the fluid and filter and a few months later the transmission exploded. We ended up putting in a rebuilt Jasper transmission with a lifetime warranty.

Vicious LS Gun modern synthetics are formulated to not require additives

@@BlitzkriegProjects that's true. But if you're having issues with gears slipping, try some Lucas Stop Slip. It worked for me. And if a $9 fluid can save your transmission and give you time to save up the $ to have the tranny serviced (or buy another vehicle if you're not attached to the current one that has issues) then I would call that a win. Mine is a DCT transmission, and is far more expensive to service, so I have changed my tranny fluid four times to do a "gentle flush" and then added in about 8oz of lucas to this last change (using the same fluid in this video, Valvoline Max Life) and my transmission is doing a heck of a lot better. I still need to change my Torque Converter and first two gears & bearings plus the input shaft bearing, but I gave myself some time to save up the $1k+ that this requires, or learn to do it myself at home. Either way, it's going to take a while, so I wanted to give my car a good shot at survival. Each time I changed the fluid, I drove it about a thousand miles. So the additives could do their thing. Before my last fluid change I ran a pint of Seafoam Hydra Trans Fix stuffs for about two hundred miles (170miles more than I should've yes) and then changed the fluid. Before adding this cleaner the fluid was a medium light pink/red, and after the chemical flush it was black. I'll need to change it out one more time to get the cleaner out, but then I'm good for 60k miles. That's my story, with an 02' Hyundai XG350 L. I hope you have as much success as I've had. Peace

I do all my fluids every year. Yes, even the transfer case and differential

Uh yeeeeeeah, like Jimmy was badmouthing both his suburbans claiming they automatically suck Toyota is better 🙄

Your right some of those machines force fluid in and thats the issue. All he did is let the trans pump it out, then refilled.

It's a combination of pushing junk through the tranny and the chemicals used with the flush machines. This method is harmless

This, he did a drop the pan replacement not a “flush”

Luuuul nice one

I'm buying the next Honda I see with a bad auto and trying this. I already have 2 could just become parts cars but what's not to lose.

@@dumpsterstu4474 It's not going to help a Honda transmission... The problem with most of those transmissions (BX7A) Is the screens in the valve body separator plate get clogged up and this restricts the fluid flow to the clutch packs and then those clutches burn up... That's what happens to those vehicles... 👍

If the filter was blocked up as you say how did it become unblocked? and what was the filter blocked up with? Your claim is suspect at best. JMHO

@@jamieweisler6309 Honda auto trans filters are internal and not a serviceable part. They become clogged over time with clutch material. Regular trans service will make them last longer.

@@mikevee9145 As a 40 transmission rebuilder this I understand. The point I was making was he said he "unclogged" the filter which is impossible and if the filter was "clogged" then it is clogged with internal material such as clutch material (usually torque converter clutch) as you say. And flushing will not cure that..

What kind of geniuses think tans dont need oil change? I full-drain and put Motul CVTF in my 12 year old honda fit every 30K KMs.

The forgotten fluids: Transmission, differential, power steering, brake fluid, and sometimes anti freeze.

@@thk7513 windshield wiper fluid

@@thk7513 blinker fluid

@@thk7513 Not here. I just put fresh fluid in my transmission and differential. When I get my hands on more money, I want to bleed my brakes and power steering...coolant's fine.

That happens if you wait to long to do it. If you do it when recommended or before recommended you won’t have an issue with flushing with pressure.

But the machines only flush at the same pressure as the internal pump.

🎯

@@Bikerboythousand he uses a leaf blower

@@whosspyingonme I took out a TH350 once after hitting taco bell for lunch.

Yeah, experience with a couple of high mileage Towncars taught me that lesson. I changed filters too. Mileage is definitely the key difference. If you are lucky, you can get another 5-10k miles from Lucas in the new fluid.

same ,l ruined my 96 Cadillac by changing the fluid ,it had 130,000 on it .Has i left it alone it might have gone to 200,000 or so

Exactly. I just said this before seeing this.

My 400k 42re Jeep transmission disagrees.. it doesnt like when the fluid goes old and orange.. a full flush through the cooler lines.. brings it back.. hense 400k miles. Other Jeep has 216k same thing.. 3rd 151k miles.. same thing. I dont believe that

Have heard what you're saying from many a good mechanic. Agree.

About time someone else here who knows the issues.

Yep. I've always thrown the additive bottles in the trash full. The transmission was built for transmission fluid, not Winns/MOC additive. Changing the chemistry is playing with fire. I'll flush the system, but won't put any additives in there.

Agreed. If the transmission has been serviced regularly, it shouldn't be a problem to continue to do so. If it's already starting to slip, and the customer now wants a service for the first time in 175-200K miles or more? I advise they proceed at their own risk. Every time I've flushed a high mileage transmission that's slipping, it has invariably finished it off. That doesn't mean flushing them is bad, just means that was the final nail in those particular transmission's coffin.

@@cavalieroutdoors6036 I've also heard of this happening many times...

Ya there was many engines destroyed after an oil cooler line blew out after service.

It’s best to replace the clip. I have had them break in the past.

Is this the same with the 4l80e line too? Put the clip on metal line first then push back into place...?

@@woodworm3615 yes they r all the same. Make sure u have a good pick handy for this job.

@@scottm4463 Your doing something really wrong if your breaking the clip... They are made from stainless steel...

Right...I like to think of it as with every flush I add miles to the life of the transmission...One main reason why transmission service is so important..It is rarely shared because most people don't know it....Not many transmission shops know what they are doing and they do a lousy job of rebuilding transmissions...So the fact is you are doing yourself a large by changing the trans fluid every 2 or 3 years..

When you bathe at home, do you also drain only half of the dirty water from the bathtub?

Ummmm…..the oil was black after 30,000 miles? You have something going on as that is not normal. I’m going to guess that you do a lot of heavy towing.

Absolutely!!! The protection that a fluid provides declines from the day it's poured in. There comes a point where the performance and protection has degraded some and it isn't spectacular anymore, and the cost to replace it is justified. That is usually 30k miles conventional and 50k miles synthetic with automatic transmission fluids. The point is NOT to wait until the fluid is absolutely destroyed and not protecting the transmission at all. The point is to replace degraded non-optimal fluid with brand new fluid that is as good as can be. Can you do a full exchange every 5,000 miles with each engine oil change? Yeah, but it would be a waste. 30k and 50k are good general rules of thumb for the point where the fluid is not so great anymore but hasn't degraded SO much that it's allowing damage to occur. Heat ruins transmission fluid. 190*F is the standard operating temp of an auto trans, and much over 200*F increases oxidation which is what produces the sooty particulate that makes fluid look opaque and dark. Burnt fluid that has lived life overheated all the time is not good at lubricating and it has bad friction properties. All ATFs nowadays are highly friction modified. If you destroy the friction modifying compounds, the clutches and bands will wear significantly faster than they ought to. Very important to keep fresh fluid in the unit to prevent that. The old fluid should be red and if you do a UOA, it should test at the marginal end of still being good. If it tests bad, you waited too long. If it's dark and oxidized, you need an auxiliary cooler installed. Why didn't you guys just remove the cover or tail housing for the governor and replace or clean it and clean its housing chamber? A sticking governor sure could cause some annoying issues for sure... :(

@@mannys9130 it was a fwd Taurus and it there was now way to get to that shaft, easily. All I needs do do was do another drain and refill. I recall one that needed an additional two drain and refill. After that the transmissions shifted like new and the fluid was nice and clean. The transmissions of that period would never see 100000 miles with the original fluid.

I had a Ford with a C4 and it had a drain plug on the converter.

​@@terrypetty9822loo Kik no km Kiki

That’s right! Be smarter than the damn clip! 😂

@@Cookefan59 I got outsmarted by a clip ( twice )

This is the best method. Drain what comes out, fill with new, drive 50k miles rinse, and repeat. Like you said gentle, not stirring anything up.👍

@@leonsus9317 That's what I always do.

yes, but every oil change for me. (every 10K) it never builds up to start with then.

Except that even after the 6th-7th fill you have like 10% extra old, acidic oil that consumed a good part of the additives. Hell nah, this is backyard science. Drain it completely at 50-60k, refill. Be done with it. That's how you get 500-800k out of your transmission.

Ahh yes... half assing it is always for the best. The fluid exchange machines are the best thing for them. one and done and get 90% of it out. yes you're adding new fluid, but your also driving on the rest of the old fluid TOO long. you're not refreshing detergents to the spec level unless you change it all at once. yes its worked for you for years, its better than nothing but its half assed at best.

Yes, this will work for changing the fluid as you maintain a constant amount of fluid in the system. BUT, when finished you still have a full oil pan to deal with in order to change the filter . . .

@@denali9449 do the pan first, then purge

@@Ffiltar46 My comment was to Ray Brenske's thought on replacing the fluid at the same time you are pumping out the old. In his scenario the pan is always full. Even if one were to follow your "pan first" scenario, the pan would be full before the purge. The other issue here is, at best, he (1ROAD) replaced 8 quarts of fluid. The shallow pan 4L60E holds 12 quarts (13 - R14 for the deep pan) including the converter. So 1ROAD did not get all the old fluid out. A pan drop and filter change takes about 6 quarts. For years I would drop the pan and change the filter and just drain the pan the next service - usually about 20K between services. So the filter went 40K. Four Silverado's, a Trailblazer and a Tahoe. The trucks all went to 300K and were used hard for towing and hauling. Excessive? Maybe, but I never had a tranny issue.

Its a manual.. you can flush, rinse, or whatever you want doing with them, the parts inside arent prone to clogging..

I've done hundreds of flushes, without any problems. The trans pumps the fluid out to the flush machine, you return filtered fluid back in. It's not doing anything the trans isn't already doing. Maybe some tech's get careless or work too fast, and are not paying attention and run the trans dry while flushing...

Thank you. Well said.

The problem is the passages are like a maze and sometimes when you flush them it knocks the gunk loose and gets plugged up in the tiny passage bends and twists causing problems. It is more likely on high mileage vehicles with original fluid that has been neglected.

That only affects the 1-2 shift not the others.

I have that same sonnax kit have yet to put it in. Finally have time with this quarantine stuff.

The "little yellow bottle" is called Mapp or Map-Pro.

Tie a string onto the clip before replacing it.

Thank you

I understand that the clip should be placed on the line then click it back in. 😉

The fluid is all held in a pan under the major working parts. No seeping really occurs. The valve body is submerged, but it is all sealed up very tightly with gaskets and O-rings. Definitely don't start it up and then rev it up and start shifting IMMEDIATELY after servicing it. Gotta give it time to reprime and refill the torque converter. But letting it sit won't help anything. If you want to refill things gently, pull the spark plug boots or the power connectors, or pull the fuel pump relay and depressurize the fuel rail. Then crank the engine in 15 second intervals which will refill the filter, pump, torque converter, and working chambers of the transmission's valve body. Do that 3-4 times. 15 seconds cranking, then 5 minutes resting and cooling the starter. Then you can start her up and wait 30 seconds and be totally confident that everything is very well lubed and refilled. No doubt whatsoever remaining at that point. 😸

@@mannys9130 That's a sensible method you have and I'm glad to have read it. The times that I've changed trans fluid as written in my first comment above, I hadn't drained the converter, and that's why the waiting method had worked for me. So I was just doing the standard pan-off, replace filter, and refill. My point in waiting is to advert a massive rush of fluid that can dislodge debris and clog the valve body. But I think you know that.

SO well said!!!

Is it still shifting smooth?

It slips in every gear now

Hey lynn 18quarts of trans fluid is this for suv standard coz i have a sedan?

depends on the vehicle. look it up.

I'm the owner and hardly drive it often. I have a 2009 Pontiac g5. Never changed the oil fluid and filter on my sealed automatic transmission besides annual oil engine change. My mileage is only 11 000km. My GM book says I need to change my oil transmission every 80km, 160km and 240km, My car always sits inside my condo. Have no problem at all with my transmission. Do I need to flush my oil transmission? I see dealers use a pump or best no pump and flash it by just draining it out and replacing it with new right oil transmission fluid and filter ? I will never get it to 80km. Maybe save my money perhaps in my case not needed to do a transmission flush?

And the difference is what?

Duane Antor One just drains and replaces some of the old fluid, a flush can force every last drop of the old fluid out but it can drag grit through the system and possibly cause additional damage on the way out.

@@OCtheG if it's done on the queens car is it then considered a royal flush?

@@OCtheG Drain only & change filter. Do not do a flush like at some of the oil change places. Back flushing will kill it within a year. particles will get in the valves.

It's still a flush. (aka a poor man's flush) Simply doing multiple consecutive drain and fills is a (manual) flush. It's the safest way to do a flush.

He did it this way (watching for bubbles) because he dropped the pan to replace the filter. No point dropping a pan full of fluid to replace the filter.

@@mikeymike758 there's a drain plug

@@juanescamilla2834 no

@@juanescamilla2834 -He could not get the drain bolt out of the pan, watch the video...

Agree ive done this many times on all 3 Jeeps transnissions over the decades.. dont wait for bubble . Fill a milk jug.. thats 4 quarts.. then stop and refill.. bubbles is no good

I got a 2002 Accord...trans fluid never been touched. I just passed 200,000 kms...should I bother/risk with a fluid change?