If it's.. Which one does Paul prefer then yeah.. Coconut for that man! 😂

Same here:) Very good emulation, same quality as Kush products.

OMG Kush was here! (The only plugins I have on subscription!)

Hardware easy pick. UAD gets hit job done no question, but with multiple tracks using the real Pultec, No competition

@@realtalkroscoeg and you still wouldn’t be able too tell which unit was used

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LOL

Very good investment!! 🤓

I know. #likeforstefan 🤓 haha

I use a combination of bettermaker and AA titanium (tube tech) on my mixbus. The UAD is completely aliasing free. Clean harmonics as well . Just very well coded. 2 very different pultecs. Different curves and obviously the bettermaker is completely clean which means a fixed setting can be completely matched with any digital eq but the alogorithm of the curves is second to none for what it does.

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Yeah the only real difference is in the high end. If your mostly using pultecs for lows and mids you shouldn't really notice much of a difference mixing on the fly

Very well said. Agreed and thank you!

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I can see now why everyone was pushing me to include UAD in the shootouts haha

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I demo'd it last year and was just like most cleanish pultecs. Not worse or better than the others. Just an eqp1a really

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Yeah Ive never gravitated to the purple and I did a low end end test with the waves when I used to Use that and noticed the same with the low end in the purple. Was the main reason I never considered purple as the low end thing really put me off. Even in this I had to crank it hard in the bass to get it closer to the hardware

@@PaulThird yeah, let's hope that acustica audio will fix this in the future. Certainly they have the expertise and talent to do it!

Probably will as I think purple is in its 3rd upgrade now so will most likely adapt. They added in another mid band m5 I seen so they might sample another eqp1a and do the same. That would make a lot of sense to give you 2 sampled pultecs

I noticed that Purple have some phase problems at low end or something. UAD sounds better in low end. I have both.

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You use a lot of Tuncas stuff eh? 🤓

@@PaulThird ay it's cheap and good quality. No messing with convoluted protection schemes

I tested the curves from Rare up against UAD and Waves using Waves Q-Clone. The Rare curves on all controld are way more dramatic and different from both UAD and Waves. This ‘moreness’ can suggest that it Sounds better in the ‘louder means better’ kind of way. I also felt overly impressed, which made me perform the test to find out What’s really going on. Imo Rare is a very good EQ with a lovely flavour. But not a Pultec. Just my two cents. ;)

The proof in the pudding is when they are all matched by ear. If it turns out that the rare can't match it due to it being over powered then I just won't include it. I'll let you all know but I won't know until I stick it in that pultec session

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If it's got "rrr's" in it then I'm fine as I can prrroooowl like I tiger (Irish accent) haha

Tbh I'd say at least 95% would fail a triple blind test. Having measured the hardware it's that clean there isn't any real mojo or any reason that it would add more roundness or low energy uplift compared to the plugins. That's why the UAD sounds near identical. The pultec is pretty simple when you match the curves in reality. Just a clean eq at the end of the day. Nothing special

Overloud plugins are good

Is there a video on that?

@@PaulThird Chandler guitar has a few. I’ve figured out how to make use of these IRs with Mconvolution but not did it with EQ yet - must explore :-) kzfaq.info/get/bejne/rtV1lcZn16mYY6M.html kzfaq.info/get/bejne/itmoa81mv8C0Z5s.html

I've been using the fat channel pultec since I moved to studio one 🤓

@@PaulThird ah cool! I guess that means you're happy with it? Really enjoyed listening to some of your songs by the way, especially Unnaturally True.

It's extremely low cpu, curves match to other pultecs, what's not to like haha

I was gonna include it. Was very close to including it over purple but I knew that I wouldve got a harder time if I didn't do purple. Could've included both but I try not to fuel the 3rd party war if possible 🤓

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You all really can't get pass the money you spent can you. 🤡

It was enough work just getting these 3 to match the hardware haha 😅 I can't see it to be fair. All these plugs are internally oversampled so I don't think the stock stuff would get anywhere near as close. Plus the waves isn't anywhere near these 3 so I just can't see it to be honest.

I could no doubt get it closer with kirchoff if I tried now

We'll always differ here as the blind test for me always wins out. If you can't pick it out blind then the differences aren't as big as many believe. Because I sit for that long with them I know that regardless of how you set it up I'd be able to get that UAD to get you stuck in a blind test. In reality terms like romantic and authentic are purely subjective and immeasurable. I think very scientifically so to me I see a pultec for what it is. A very clean eq with a certain curve interaction. The more you step back from the romance you start seeing things for what they are. When we look at gear it's just science and engineering at the end of the day. They were built to result in a specific end result. Magic doesn't exist, It's all measurable and can be recreated. The issue I see with audio is human psychology. Perceptual listening is genuinely a thing. If you believe before touching a dial that it's special then guess what.. Most likely you'll perceive it as special as soon as you move the dial. If I can set the hardware up the way I would use it and then match that sound with a plugin where I can't really hear any difference then there's hardly any difference. There just isn't. 'real world' has too many variables due to perceptual listening. I remember seeing a study somewhere where somebody got engineers to level match a plugin and their own gear. When they knew which was which nearly all of them set their gear louder in level. But blind they were way closer. You need to remenber how much humans create variables in 'real world' tests. That's why I take a more scientific approach and curve match and level match everything to within an inch of its life. Mentioning U47 clones has no relevance to this specific test as its a completely different product. It kind of adds context to a believed perception. Again just my opinion We can talk about performances but I personally see it is BS as again it can't be measured and the performance has already been captured. There no logical reason why the hardware would result in a better performance if both sound near identical. It's really a subjective opinion on how a performance is interpreted. I do the blind tests as it removes preconceptional bias and subjectivity. If I can get the pultecs near identical then there's absolutely no reason why you couldn't pull up the UAD and get that awesome sound you desire quickly. Doesn't make sense why you couldn't cause it can sound like that. To me the variable comes from the user and not the product. I can't argue with subjectivity as its immeasurable. I can't disprove anything you've said in what you hear. But I can prove if you can hear all those big differences in a level matched blind test. I can prove which you prefer in a blind test and at the end of the day and that's where the truth lies.. For me I'm genuinely not meaning any disrespect, I'm just giving you insight into how I see these things. I do see the argument of ease of use which is really dependent on the curve interaction of that specific pultec and how you need to set it to get that desired sound BUT when you are talking 5 grand of a difference.. Taking an extra minute to set it right is nothing. Again I am not meaning offense but there's no point discussing in detail subjective stuff that we can't prove or disprove. It's just a subjective opinon at the end of the day and you are completely in your right to share it but I hope you can understand why I struggle to take that in when you say you'd struggle in the science part which is what we can prove. Yes.. I am that autistic 🤣

@@PaulThird Hi Paul, I appreciate the detailed response, and am not offended with what you are saying, I'm not about to question your approach, its very thorough. I can agree that magic doesn't exist, but romance does - an irrational emotional reaction to, y'know things. Perhaps it is burned into us in our younger years just as many non-engineers and end consumers who don't know what an SSL is, might associate their favourite recordings with that desk, and not even know it. In a vaccum we can test frequencies, but we don't operate in a vaccum, we are affected continually by experiences and associations. I'm not the analog purist who wants to preach to the world that if your ears are good enough you can hear it, rather someone who is getting better results adding analog into my workflow. I'm happy not to understand this, in fact the more I try to the less sense it makes! For someone with autism, you seem extremely sane and grounded, I rather suspect Paul, its not you that has the problem, but the rest of the world thats gone fecking senile, don't you think? Best Regards, Jon

I'm just too literal for my own good a lot of the time.. the downsides of autism. Think too black and white haha

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Which pultec are we talking about haha

The noiseash is still my favourite overall, even over the hardware. I think that the richness and texture of the harmonics is better in the noiseAsh overall

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I have noticed that. Also they lack depth especially the lower regions and smoothness and finesse in the mids and the top end when pushed compared to the hardware. They may seem similiar but overall they dont capture the hardware mojo to my ears.

To be expected with analog vs digital but extremely subtle in my opinion overall. I would go as far to say these slight differences wouldn't add any real benefit to a mix but thats just my opinion though. If you were to sit an average listener down, or an artist and ask which they prefer.. Could go either way. It's maybe because Ive sat for hours tweaking all these plugs that I know how close UAD is haha 😅 Not 100% like for like. Nothing will be but has all of the things missing in the other 2 plugs 🤓 that snap of the snare was the tell for me. As soon as I heard the UAD I knew it was modelled correctly. I genuinely didn't expect it after listening to the ruletec and purple. Dunno what it is and how UAD managed to do it. I've been thinking about it a lot haha

Already did a pultec shootout with Puigtec before this and didn't come off great to me compared to ruletec and Lindell so was no point including it vs the hardware for me. If I've included the waves in other shootouts and they didn't do well then I normally don't include it. However I did include waves puigchild in the fairchild hardware comparison as I felt it did alright in the first fairchild shootout

@@PaulThird Thanks again for the information! I asked because I usually check big well known company. The way I judge if they're big or not is based on how frequently they put ads (because maybe they might have a lot of money?)/how well designed their website/how many plugins they've sold in the past etc. and from those condition above,waves to me is one of the biggest companies in the industry. Would you say the way I research and purchase is not so practical? To be hones,the level of satisfaction from owning their products are "alright". best regards

The best plugins I own are plugins that not many know about haha TimP comps via nebula. Acustica audio, noiseash ruletec, wavesfactory trackspacer etc. I use a lot of plugin alliance as well but what you've got to keep in mind is that marketing doesn't always mean quality. Waves built the brand over decades and thus have the money to have the best brand awareness. Marketing is a lot of money but what to remember is that many times the plugins are made by 1 or 2 guys. If they go on their own and make plugins like many have then they don't have a big brand to market it but are still producing the best plugins out there. That's why I started creating plugin shootouts many years ago 🤓

​@@PaulThird Wow.. I must change the way I do research lol Thank you so much again. I'll check those plugins out for sure! Best regards

It’s about mixing. Multiple contrasting tracks in audio. Light and shadow in visual. An expert will know exactly how to balance these, and the observer will hear the difference in the final result even though they can’t appreciate the subtlety in isolation. Everyone cares because everyone appreciates beautiful art being as beautiful as possible. And there is no paradox if you think about it.

Quite interesting ideology though 🤓

@@PaulThird Thanks, I got it from Sormena Project YT channel. It simplifies thinking about mixing by putting on constraints. So I tend to use 1 channel strip for the whole mix as well (so PA TMT is quite nice there). The constraints really make it easier to think about rather than constant option overload. Also gives me an excuse to have multiple different plugin versions of the same hardware :)

nah its true man. spending thousands on 24 bit converters and bouncing down to 16 bit 44.1 haha the 5% is probably whats lost in the long run. Annoying as you'll never really be able to measure it but I try and focus on differences that I dont need to think twice about. I could go blind and pick it out any time. Thats where my head is at.

I agree …I liked Purple right off more….but I never used a real one….I just went off sound preference . And I know that doesn’t mean it’s closer to a pultec than the other…I just liked the sound

Could be. Or it could be that it's possibly just this pultec unit. If the UAD didn't nail it I would a bit more skeptical but I think you may be right. I actually prefer the plugins top end to the hardware which is maybe why the rest sound brighter. It's a preferred choice to me but with pultecs being so well known for being very inconsistent it's a bit of a guessing game for me haha

Wouldn't be that nebula sound by any chance??? 🤣

@@PaulThird got it! 😂🙌🏻

are you talking about the recording?

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That's how I feel. Inevitable eventually

You mean emulations? Because soothe (digital) has surpassed analog.

will not happen in our life time

Debatable. Nowadays it's clear that most plugins miss that richness and wideness of sound. Although some already sound as good as analog. Not same, but same as good. And they doesn't necessarily have to be identical. They should sound identically good. Because there is a problem when people compare plugin to analog and say "I like it but it doesn't sound the same, so is a bad plugin.". No, if it sounds good, is good. But as I said, most plugins are lacking that richness. And "to surpass" means to sound even wider, even punchier, even richer. But is wider that wide, or punchier than punchy, or fatter than fat better? Usually is not. Because too wide, too crisp, too smooth, too fat usually is also too much. Gold is in the middle. So when plugins will be as good (some already are), it will be just perfect.

Once the converters can 100% mimic

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Whilst it does increase the gain, my shootouts are accurately level matched however id say just go with whatever pultec is cheapest cause they all relatively do the same thing if I'm being honest. A hardware pultec is super clean. The ruletec is modelled from a rare vintage modded/broken one if I recall so that has audible non linearities

@@PaulThird Wow, that's a really quick reply. Thank you for your explanation, it was very direct and helpful. So, I think I'll choose between UAD and Ruletec, if UAD could give me that $45 coupon lol.

Access analog use lynx converters

I did but it just sounded like the rest of the clean pultecs. If you have bertom you can match the curves with most plugins bang on. Thats what I would do differently if I had my time again instead of hours by ear and referencing span. I think on reflection UAD was just the closest to the curves of the hardware in my setup

​@@PaulThird interesting! What is Bertom? Thanks for the reply as always, Paul.

kzfaq.info/get/bejne/m8d9d5WJ0KvRaH0.html

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The fairchild shootout is good for that. I cranked the hardware input for maximum colour in the examples and did the same with the plugins to match 🤓

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Nah after the 4th or 5th pultec you stop caring. They all sound like pultecs. A pultec is all about the curves

It's on my laptop which is now officially dead. I need to go through my emails to find the intro but hopefully I find it 😅😅

Come on now... We all know there's none of this "direct connection to your ear" going on. Put 100 people in a room and triple blind test the hardware and UAD, no ones passing that

@@PaulThird Perhaps not on a solo bass drum with minimal eq but I am playing around with both plugins on a single overhead track recorded with a ribbon mic which needs a 10db boost in the high end and I can honestly say there is a massive difference in realism. The UAD sounds flat and sterile where the Purple it sounds detailed and real like the musician is in the room with me and it's not even subtle. And when I say "direct connection to your ears" I am talking about detail like how a wav file has more detail than an mp3. Compare a file recorded at 192khz to a file recorded at 44.1khz and then down sampled to 128 kbps mp3. Perhaps the difference between UAD and the hardware is not quite as massive but it does not have the resolution of the hardware. If you stop concentrating on tone and listen for resolution you will notice the difference and I can hear them even on Imac built in speaker.

Just need some pink accessories and it will be extra fabulous darling 👌 haha 😅😅

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Yeah used plugin doctor but they didn't sound the same. Probably due the differences in harmonics and intermodulation distortion. Ended using the grab function in fabfilter pro q 3 to match the hardware and then fine tweaked by ear to get closer

@@PaulThird Cool! :)

Ed you are bang on. Those subtle differences are there in the hardware in guitars compared to uad but I think they become more lost when in the mix. I possibly could have maybe tweaked the UAD slightly better on guitars but tweaking 3 different plugins to sound the same on one source slowly loses your perception haha

@@PaulThird I recon you matched them pretty bang on, I think the differences are as small as they can be, i agree though, extremely subtle, basically identical in a mix.

Certainly not a 3 and a half grand difference 😅😅

@@PaulThird Ahhaha, btw I just got myself TimP's dualTECH and it sounds brilliant as well, as you can imagine. Plugins have gone a long way... You can also get hardware copies of Pultecs for decent prices nowdays, those vintage units' prices are so high mainly for scarsity.

And as dave pensado said.. "why would you want an old noisy inconsistent passive tube eq?" as you said, originals are scarce and have turned more into collector items these days. Modern cleaner pultecs like bettermaker and Tube tech are the way forward in my opinion

Tbh this is the first I've heard somebody using the equilibrium for a pultec haha

I get credits so I tell them what I plan on doing and normally they give me enough to cover the video 🤓

I feel bad on Tim for not including it but I may do a quick seperate shootout just to shoot it out vs UAD. I try not to compare 3rd party and aquas if possible

@@PaulThird Why not? :(

Acustica distribute and update nebula so my aim is to keep the peace where possible. Last thing I want is to advertise that certain 3rd party plugs which are competition to aquas using AA's own software are better than aquas as it may cause nebula to cease altogether. I don't want that responsibility haha 😅

@@PaulThird i look forward to seeing you compare the UAD and Dual Tech

Should he interesting. Also going to throw in the analog obsession pultec as well as its free

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That’s what’s so cool about not being a kid these days - to have seen what hardware/software cost in the 90’s and to see something more powerful on the App Store for $15.99 is always mind blowing. I constantly feel so grateful to be using all the cool stuff available to creative people these days.

And just gave my busted cans a shot and it they are working for some reason and same stood for me. Love the videos! Fun to see the progression of what ur doin

To be honest I'll still use the ruletec for vintage pultec purposes to add overall low end weight and colour. You go with whatever sound you know will work for you 🤓

Still my vintage pultec of choice 😜

I don't do 3rd party vs 3rd party. I've already said I'd do Tim Pethericks so I can't really do it. I know it sounds daft but I want to keep the peace with them all haha

I have tried a lot to push the channel out more but the KZfaq algorithm is still holding me back 😔

@@PaulThird KZfaq screwing over content creators in favour of lamestream media.

That reaction video done the trick though. Over 10k views in 5 days and over 400 new subs in the past week! .. But that was only because I reacted to a video the algorithm had already chosen as it was so Controversial and terribly done haha.. Absolutely backwords 🙃

@@PaulThird people love drama. Gig at people's buttons and watch the thousands of replies in the comments section. Lol

I couldn't constantly create drama for views. I'd start thinking I was away to get anthrax through the door one day 😂

That Ruletec....is incredible...sounds richer than the rest of them

The ruletec is more open....

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Could also say there is a juju bub up the tree, but does that make it so?

@@GingerDrums if there is actually 1 up there then yes…….

Not all UAD plugins

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I keep on getting told you need apogee hardware to run the plugins though.. Like UAD?

@@PaulThird Hey Paul, great video again! Nice one. You can run Apogee natively without Apogee hardware. Think they do a trial period too.

Why did loads of people tell me I needed the hardware haha I'm doing a quick part 2 of plugs vs UAD so can include this if I don't need hardware 🤓

@@PaulThird I think maybe as they do run on DSP as well, so maybe they got confused. Anyway you can't be expected to test every single Pultec plugin, especially in the amount of detail you are going into. Must take you a lot of time and effort with these videos!

Yeah a good few hours spent critically listening with this one.. Actually what am I saying I spend ages on all Eq shootouts haha 😅 it's worth it though as I can't deal with shitty shootouts. I'm too anal with stuff like that 😂

Give me the plugin equivalents I'll always bridge the gap if it's night and day 😜 there's no reason why a pultec hardware would be seriously different if the plugins are properly level and curve matched but I dunno which pultec he used

@@PaulThird Last time I linked on yt it deleted the link? That would be the easiest but would love you to check it out...with all that time you have ;-) The unfortunate aspect of today...time impoverished :-( It seemed...3d dimensional...well a lot more front to back depth anyway

This is the updated UAD pultec

@@PaulThird When was it updated?

🤷‍♂️ I just know that there is a legacy pultec and this pultec.

nah, logic‘s pultec ain‘t good enough.

UAD have always been fine.

Now you're just copying me 😜 haha 🙌🙌

@@PaulThird literally im a fan of cl1b and i bought titanium after ur comparission, AA needs more ppl like u!

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So are you listening to the comparisons only on the laptop?

@@PaulThird yessa! as entertainment. But i know already what to look for, and its this earfatigue sound . so im trained on a better soundsyst

Nah I've tested them and ran sweeps, and also had strange hardware based issues with broken pots and shit They had to take the api 5500 out for like 3 weeks till they fixed it

good to hear it's been thoroughly tested@@PaulThird

Probably be about the same tbh. They are all roughly the same unless they alias like a bitch i.e. Waves. IF you own the black rooster i'd say just stick with the black rooster unless your not too happy with it then possibly demo the ruletec as it's only $30 just now which is a steal

Measured very differently from the rest if I recall

​@@PaulThird Much worse you mean? I must check out that Kirchoff thingy, you were pretty stoked on it as I recall

Dunno if id say worse, was just different from the rest of the emus

@@PaulThird Ah, ok. Good to know. 🙂

I’ve been using Waves for a long time and couldn’t stand the Analog Obsession version. To me a Pultec clone should almost always have that “oh, it sounds better now” factor. Often wanted to just bypass the AO.

Being honest I'd very much doubt anybody would be able to pick the pultec out in a triple blind test. When it's that close not many get it right consistently. A hardware pultec is actually extremely clean so I don't really see where it could be adding any more depth than the UAD as its essentially all about the curves in a pultec which most likely the UAD is closest to compared to the others. Ruletec is way more coloured than the hardware so it's always going to sit back a little more and 'smear' sources so in regards to depth it can be argued that the ruletec has depth but a different kind of depth as it sits sources back in a mix. Hardware should sound more forward and clearer than ruletec due to it being so clean. UAD models the curves and lack of harmonics closely to the point where I just can't see anybody picking out the hardware consistently blind. In other shootouts I've done where I've included blind tests that's as close as this the differences people heard with everything labeled almost disappears blind

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In what way.. Pitch?

@@PaulThird Yeah. And I've just listened to it again through my studio Senn HD25s and it sounds fine now. For some wierd reason the high E sounds a touch sharp to me on a pair of cheap Senn HD201 so I'm now assuming thats theres some HF partials in there that the 201's don't like. Maybe the moral of the story here is don't buy cheapo headphones. Or maybe I'm just imagining the whole thing.

Theres a video going live at 3pm today talking all about 'flat' ITB mixes and reasons why plugins can sound flat and how it's actually more down to the user rather than the tools. Discussing all the work you should really be puting into the rough before thinking about sticking a compressor or additive eq on a source. Hopefully it can help you out 🤓

When you say UAD I take it you also mean hardware as well?

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