In general, I find warranties worthless. They usually do not cover labor or consequential damages and I find it frequently costs more to make a warranty claim than to just fix the problem.

I too have used both types of piping for repairs, remodels, and new construction. I remain a user of Uponor BUT, I have a story about their 25 year warranty. In my own home which contains almost two MILES (I built way too large of a home) of radiant Hepex in joist staple up, and under concrete scenarios, I had a failure in the piping after ten years. I'm not talking about drinking water piping, but the cross linked oxygen barrier piping for space heating. Uponor took the piece of piping (about 18" long) and after dragging their feet for over a month they finally responded. They said I must have installed it too close to a heat source causing it to fail. The only heat source was the piping itself that was heating the space. This was in a heated garage, in the ceiling, with blown-in insulation to keep the heat rising to the floor above. I documented the piping before removal, after removal, and the surrounding space of ruined drywall showing the fluorescent lighting a minimum of ten feet away. I had to go thru my wholesaler, who contacted the rep, who contacted the factory. After repeated attempts to show them no fault of mine existed in the install, they stood by their denial of responsibility. I then asked for my property to be returned, for outside testing. And they had 'lost' it. Don't think I wasn't very pissed off. I had massive drywall repairs and mold started to grow as I waited for insurance permission to begin repairs. Turns out my insurance premium was very high on a $1M+ home so I had selected a $5K deductible plan to help on premiums. Screwed myself on that one. I still use their products but with a bitter taste in my mouth. I run a 20 plumber operation and this is my first Uponor failure. And it was on my own home!

Trying to get Uponor to honor their warranty is an act of congress even when it is proven their pipe failed. My father n law got 2 houses flooded where Uponor failed nowhere near fittings ( and that is the pipe even being stored properly before installation) and it took forever for Uponor to own up to it. That is why it does not go into my jobs

As a professional (carpenter) I fully agree with this. As a DIYer (my own plumbing bought through big box stores) I feel attacked. I'm limited to the pex, fittings, crimp rings, crimp tool, and gauge offered in stores. So far I haven't flooded my house and have had better results than when I tried burning my house down sweating copper. But then again I am getting what I didn't pay for by doing it myself. And they sell flex seal!

Failed to mention the ID is much greater with Uponor system. More flow!

Same here Matt, Happy 50th Birthday also. I will be hitting that monument in April of 2023. As a small contractor in Houston area, I've been able to implement the content like this one on your channel to many time to count.👊Thanks and keep more coming!

Happy Birthday Matt, all the cool kids are 50(like myself lol) As a DIY guy that likes to do the very best job at everything I can, I look to your videos. They are very educational, and all the attention to details help quite a bit with jobs I may not have felt comfortable with before. Thanks again

Happy big 5-0! Thanks for all your help and expertise!

Thanks for the valuable information! It also shows the challenge in keeping up with all these loopholes for individual DIYers. Thank you!

Thanks JW, it doesn't matter how good the warranty is if they're not going to honor it

You failed to mentioned one of the main differences between A and B. You have yo up size B due to the fact that the fittings restrict the flow. Major consideration when sizing a system.

This sounds like it is just waiting for a challenge to the Magnuson-Moss warranty act. If the mfg can’t prove the failure was caused by the fittings they are on the hook for the full warranty.

Wow, I am so grateful you guys were willing to share you knowledge and experience

Matt, Have you put out any info on the failing Uponor blue and red Pex? I see that is what was used throughout your house. Sample shown here is the only now available clear. Multiple homes are being repiped due to failures. You should be providing info on these failing products you have been pushing.

Also, make sure to use the proper PEX for heating vs. potable water. Happy 50th Matt!

I found you from "off the ranch" years ago, I still watch because you have useful products for real life.

Bought the milwaukee expansion tool. Quickly became one of my fav tools.

Durability is important, thanks for sharing this video with us.

I was introduced to Aquapex in 1992 when I was working for Centex Homes. I was a DP in a West Coast Division. Centex inked a deal with Aquapex in 1994 and I believe they were the first national home builder to use this type of product. Its installed in every home that I own. One think you will notice going from copper to Pex is how quiet the Pex is.

Company I used to work for did a lot of the electrical work at their plants here in MN. The Master Electrician of Upornor actually taught my 3rd year classes. They can’t produce their product fast enough and the extruder lines are intense, the pipe goes through a phase where they have to put protection around it because it can blind you. It’s almost too easy to install.

Never cheap out on anything that goes in your walls. If you do, and it fails, there goes all your "cost savings".

I thought you both would talk about the different types of pex *within* A & B, because there are definitely different sub-classes. Even beyond this, there are situations where even if you don't have expansion fittings, the qualities of Pex A may be preferred to Pex B since A can be both expanded or crimped.

Great point! Think of it as a PEX system!

FYI: There are a few brands that do manufacture PEX B that's rated for expansion. PEX B is also less susceptible to bursting and degradation from chemicals/minerals in the water (like chlorine). I've seen videos of PEX A failures due to the chlorine/chloramine.

I’m sooooo happy in Canada we have The Canadian Standards Association!! Just look up the CSA number and see if it jives with the other systems. That’s what I was taught in trade school. You’re not going to get literally anywhere demanding anything from your supplier. You get what the distributor can get its hands on.

Some houses in my neighborhood built in the early 2000s were piped with PEX-C and have chronic leaks and many had to have a whole house re-pipe. After finding out about it I checked and luckily our house was pipe with PEX-A.

Merflex Pex C is F1960 approved Zurn Pex B is F1960 approved Silverline Sil-O-Pex Pex B is F1960 approved All 3 perform way better during freezing conditions than Pex A as it expands to the point of rupturing while the first 3 have barely started to expand....

I'd like to see some actual price comparisons. There is a similar sort of issue in the laser printer industry, where "genuine HP" toner (dry ink) can cost roughly 4x the cost of third-party toner.

A good analogy for the Warranty conversation also relates to Electrical. In commercial and industrial applications, you must be cautious about how you install different products. They will only retain their UL rating if they installed with products that are tested as a group. Examples are Motor starters and overloads.

Sioux Chief makes a pex-b pipe that is both F1807 and F1960 certified and warrantied. Not all companies specify that the pipe & fitting warranty are different depending on manufacturer. Some are strictly rating-based warranty based on what type certified fitting you use. Sioux Chief specifically warranties their pipe & fitting for 25 years regardless if you use their fittings/pipe or not.

This was a great video. I was honestly expecting a bash on Pex B video. when I read the title. but it was very informative about warranty for manufacturers.

What would be nice is to see part producers meet the warranties with "meet or exceed" ratings of their parts. This way if substitutions are to be made there is less likely of a chance to create issues. Further it would create a stability in a higher standards in a market place creating healthy competition which would drive down costs for the consumer, encourage brand loyalty and make the cheap crap even less desirable which is a positive IMO. Having a handful of competitive, quality and interchangeable options would be good for everyone except the hacks. Increasing the standards all around is a good thing in the long and short run, making it competitive is key. :)

Question here: The whole warranty talk is likely a warranty on the materials, right? Not a warranty of your home's plumbing where they'd pay a contractor to come re-plumb your house? IF that's correct, then the "warranty" is all but useless. Pex costs roughly 35 cents a foot. It costs nothing. Virtually ALL the cost is in labor. So who cares if the warranty is a day, a decade, or a million years? It's likely not even worth filling out when you can go to HD and buy a 100 foot roll of PexA for 35 bucks. I had a plumber come out and quote me 10k to re-plumb my house. I replumbed it with Pex-A for under $500 in materials (the Milwaukee fuel tool was an additonal $550 on sale, but resold it for a tiny loss after the job). So roughly 95% of the cost is labor. Unless labor is covered then the warranty is not worth talking about.

I have been using pex b for many years, only brass fittings. All faucets have such small water ways the cross sectional restriction is negligible. That being said, if I do a large house, I just use 1" trunks. As a service plumber I only do rehabs and recipes on old houses. Sometimes the areas I have to make connections in is ridiculously tight and the expansion tools would not fit or getting the fitting together would be very difficult if not impossible.

Matt, Eric, thanks for this short video. Lot's of good info here for us DIYers. I've installed a fair amount of pex in my rental homes and wonder what the failure rate is on these pex systems. I've haven't had a problem over the 10 years of so that I've used pex. I'd like to hear about failures that others have experienced. Is failure most common at the fittings? How about burst pipe? Thanks guys.

On the same note, there have been documented cases where the manufacturer denied claims because it was not installed by a certified licensed plumber for that product. Please keep in mind these are licensed plumbers but not certified for that product. There was a huge case a few years ago in Seattle Washington where the product started to fail on a new 25-story Condo in downtown. The piping itself was failing and the manufacturer took no responsibility. It was huge project to replace all the piping.

Thank you for the heads up guys. That was great information to know. : )

A buddy of mine had Viega failure in his 2014 built house. Started getting pinholes in his hot water supply lines. 2 last year, then 6 more this year. Random Places around the house. All on the hot water lines. After a few months of back and forth, Viega agreed to pay for a re-pipe.

It gets even more confusing when some types of PEX-b can be expanded, like Zurn.

People underestimate expansion, especially where I am at Minnesota... Pex A all day baby!

I personally use Pex-A with Pex-B crimp fittings in my home. I live in the north-east, and pipes freeze usually every damn year. Pex-A has that awesome expansion and pressure retention. I use pex-b fittings for ease of repairs if needed. Simple tool that cuts the crimps off and can reuse the brass fittings, etc. Obviously, if I were a contractor and I did this every day, I would use a complete system as intended for maximum warranty.

I looked at a house being built (framing stage) about 1/4 mile from ocean. I was bidding on plumbing a mansion about 2 lots away and wanted to see what locals were using. (Laguna Beach, Ca.) Any and all metals exposed to the air, including the crimp rings were beginning to show rust. Yikes! I like Uponor plastic expansion ring systems. All plastic, keep it away from radiant heat and sunlight. I've installed 100's of miles of this. I have a pool house out back of my house and in 2018 I purposely ran about 10 feet of hot & cold Uponor Pex that gets about 5-6 hours of direct SoCalif sunlight a day. About 2 weeks ago I checked on it by pushing it around, hitting it with a grade stake & such...seems fine. Eventually I'll replace it with copper, just wanted to experiment cuz I can. Thanks!

I totally forgot about this issue with warranty change. Thanks for reminder

Happy Birthday, Matt! Love you, brother!

What about the class action lawsuits against Upinor?

Umm, you do realize that Zurn Pex B uses cold expansion fittings just like Uponor Pex A. Also, the expander tool for Zurn Pex B uses an expansion head design that puts much less stress on the Pex pipe when expanding it out. However, if you really want to, you can use the Uponor Pex A expander tool on Zurn Pex B pipe as well.

You know your plumber is legit when he has a pipe wrench tattooed on his forearm !

Matt, happy birthday, is there a video on what is the best choice for a homeowner to use for underground cold water to faucets around one's property from the meter. Pex (A or B), hdpe poly pipe, pvc. Looking for a advantages and disadvantages of each and associated ballpark cost?

I'm not a plumber, but have done a LOT of plumbing in the last 30 years that involved maintenance or building engineering along with maintaining 3 houses. In my area at the box stores I don't see the same fitting or crimp rings.(it may be that I'm not going to an actual plumbing supply) I never use plastic elbows, couplers or "t's". they are a bronze color or material.(and I buy contractor packs usually 10-25 pieces) The crimp rings I see and use are also different. they are black oxidized or copper crimp rings. Not sure on this but the crimp tool may be different as well. I also echo that I would just fix any problem as the big companies have way more money to prove fault on my part or find some loophole. And... It's just quicker to get it done than wait on a bunch of suit and ties to make a decision. thanks for the video and the warranty FPN/fine print note. 25 yrs, 10yrs or 1yr.

I redid all the plumbing in my house with Pex-A. It is so easy to use, I'm not even sure if you could do it wrong. Awesome stuff

I never would have thought of this, thank you for the information!

My plumber said to never use sharkbite on buried pex (underground buried). He says they corrode in 3-4 years and fail. I’m guessing the acidic soil here in GA eats through the brass in the sharkbite fittings. Above ground? Good to go!

5:10 Some pex manufacturers actually have F1960 approved (cold expansion) Pex B pipe. Sioux Chief is one of them.

Matt, love your videos. I know pex a is extremely popular, due to its many properties & expansion fittings. However I have seen many failures of the pipe watching utube videos & even some comments from your watchers. Utuber Joe Ludlow is a plumber/ repiper & worth watching regarding pex. Apparently Zurn pex b is f1960 rated with expansion fittings. I compared the fittings of pex a Uppnor vereses Zurn pex b & the Zurn appears to be a heavier fitting with a minimal reduction of i.d. . I purchased the Zurn expansion heads for my dewalt expansion tool & it appears to spread the expansion area better. As an excellent builder, I would love to see you research & address expansion pex b as an alternative. " let's get going"

Sure is good info about the warranties! Thanks. What about if a sharkbite fitting is used? Is there any warranty, the same as if using unlabeled but ordinary fittings?

Great video. One question though. Is there a difference in durability between the two brands? ie: Do they both hold up if the pipe were to freeze?

I agree, If I buy a manufacture other than the brand pipe I always get brass or stainless steel fittings.

Replumbed the whole house with pex-b when I did a gut kitchen remodel 6 years ago. I built a manifold and did home runs to it from every fixture. I used sharkbite connectors. Best decision I’ve ever made.

Like always. Great informative video.

Great video, Matt!

Matt, I think you missed a LOT of other technicals between type A and type B that important to consider such as psi and burst ratings, chemical resistance, and flexibility/kink issues.

Matt..............Happy Birthday!! The subject matter in this video I completely support 110% !

Happy birthday Mr. Risinger wish u many many more.

I wonder how often people make warranty claims on PEX. I guess it could come in handle if your whole PEX install is done with faulty pipe. If you have one fitting fail, doing a claim on a $5 fitting seems like a pain. I haven't read through the warranties but I'm guessing they don't pay for damage, is that correct?

I am fine with Pex for adding something later on since feeding copper through existing walls isn’t always possible. But in general, I am old school. I like sweated copper. I am fine with pro-press fittings (don’t worry, the o ring in pro-press is just a backup, the copper to stopper pressure can seal the connection).

Very informative thanks

I just did a job were we replaced all the water supply in the crawl space at a friend's place. They had a bunch of leaks due to Nibco pipe. There is a very large class action law suit because of Nibco pipe and fittings.I put pex valves in so if more leaks happen in the house we can cut off water to that area. Then we will address pipe in the walls.

Everything you aid is very true!!!! Biggest problem is manufactures treat the consumer the same way as HP first you had to use their cartridges because of "quality" but they want $60 for a $10 cartridge!!! Greed is ALWAYS part of the puzzle. Not HP makes printers that have a code that do not allow the machine to operate with other cartridges AND it emails HP that the warranty has just been voided!!! All the while HP makes the WORST cartridges for their printer of any manufacture. Manufactures that force the use of their fittings for profits first NOT quality so be careful. When you build high end with unlimited budgets you loose site of the real world often. When a PEX or other fitting costs 6 to 10 times what others and it is because of the "Warranty system" read the fine print. The consumer wants the system to replace everything damaged if the system fails. What does the warranty cover..... The parts and replacement of the parts. Only on rare occasion does the warranty repair ALL damage from a failed fitting so the warranty is really just a smoke screen to a false reality.

When repairs or modifications are made later it seems like you could crimp pex B but you shouldn’t expand pex A so it seems like a repair plumber would be better suited to use crimp type fittings. Right?

Happy Birthday Matt!🥳🥳

Have a Happy Birthday Matt!!!

Awesome thanks so much for sharing this information

I install nothing but Uponor(Wirsbo). Love their stuff.

I have pex b with expansion fitting in the house from 4 years ago and absolutely no issues. Also no mention of alupex?

i have used Uponor pipe with crimp fittings for 28 years on about 7 million ft of pipe, not a single crimp failure. Some fittings have failed, but not at the crimp connection.

This is pexciting.

This was great information.

I've for about a year or so using expanding pex for all my jobs but I'm not sure if it was taken care of yet but over some time ago there was a lawsuit regarding the colors of the expanding PEX due to the warranty issues so I've been using more of the white pex for everything because of the blue and red having issues is that still in play

What kind of pex and fittings would you use I want the best I am not cheap building a house love your channel

Happy Birthday, Matt! Thanks for your great content.

very important video, many thanks

I bought a house built about 22 years ago, plumbed entirely in Uponor PEX A. Every fitting is crimped, and every fitting is starting to leak. I worry about the places I can't see...

Zurn Pex B can be expanded

Great info I’ve used cinch clamps on PEX A pipe. Is that a catastrophic failure?

Hey Matt, didn't you plumb your new house (in 2020) with the Uponor that got recalled? The Red and Blue stuff? Since you fully documented the construction of that house, how do you think this impacts the value of your home at this point?

I’ve been using Apollo brand pex a system. Any thoughts? I’ve had no issues in multiple re-pipes over 3 years now.

LOL Goober. Thanks for the video, I'm looking to try PexB in my new addition.

I am a novice and i live in an old house. I want to update my plumbing water lines and would like to know if PEX is safe? The water sits in the lines until used especially the hot water; is there any transfer of chemicals from the PEX? And what about mild growth in cold water lines?? I understand copper is the healthiest but so cost prohibitive, I am looking for healthy/safe alternatives. What do you think?? Thanks Matt!

Thank you for recording and posting this very important and confusing to the layperson information. I just want water! My goodness!

Thanks for this video Matt. I’ll be very diligent about my plumbing in my home remodel/addition to be sure I buy ALL of the same brand. This is being done to outlive me, so I want the best warranty possible.

I put a note on my plumbing plans that says all the pipes on the plan have been sized using the Uponor manual and substituting any other tubing voids the plumbing plan. The notes also say that the entire water service supply system must be made of Uponor tubing and fittings, and everything must be installed per all the manufacturer's specifications. Folks like me who design plumbing systems must be very specific on the plans to protect both our clients, and ourselves.

Used Pex A in my whole house renovation along with a sharkbite manifold which Matt would call Bomber as it has brass ball valve for each port. The flexibility of pex A allowed me to have no fittings in the walls except 3 at the in wall tanks for my toilets and 2 at the washer machine box. In the comments section of many videos I often say I use sharkbite fittings but I have not in the past qualified it by saying I only use sharkbite brand. The patent expired years ago and there is a lot Chinesium junk out there.

Really flexing your Pex there with your intro, Matt.

When a plumbing is working the first year it will allmost work forever. The problem with leakages (the only thing of concern) allways starts by manipulating the plumbings or freezings. Manipulating includes nailing, drilling, applying forces (e.g. strechting or kinking) adding/removing parts to/off the plumbing . Over time the valves/taps are the matters of concern. And ... plumbing is not the last job at home building. After the plumber has done its work there comes the electrician and after that dry-walling, cabinet installations and so on. Here some additional blocking, there some minor relocating of sinks. All done after plumbings inspection. You have to keep an eye to all of this. Last but not least: The maintanance allways has to deal with "out of sight out of your mind". After 5 years nobody even knows the layout anymore what's behind the walls.

I believe you missed the biggest issue with PEX A and PEX B, restriction of flow with PEX B. Correct me if I’m wrong but PEX A expands the pipe so the fitting doesn’t reduce the size of the pipe like PEX B does. This was a major miss in this presentation.

My house is all copper. When I finished my basement I choose copper for the bathroom it was a pain with around 75 Solder joints but I’m happy with It. But I get installing pex as a contractor.

Matt; in my region I’ve had difficulty finding uponor pex and fittings. Not sure why, seems like local builders may not use their system. I have a propex tool and want to redo my water lines. Is this a common issue that certain areas have limited availability of one system or the other?

Why does no one talk about Zurn pex. They say that their pex can be used with expansion or crimp fittings and they offer both.

Matt i'd really love to see a video on Zurns expandable Pex-B. People have always thought of A = expandable, B = crimp/clamp, but some of these new products appear to further conflate common understanding of these products. How can a B pipe be expanded if it doesn't have memory? Are these expandable B systems the best of both worlds as I've read B pipe is more durable and leeches less?

Listening/watching this, it seems to me like, during the Pandemic and/or other such shortages, Upanor sounds like the better system overall, since while you're still getting a lower warranty by mixing and matching, it's still 10 years in length, versus just one for Viego. Obviously, using the full system from the manufacturer would be better, but it's sounding like if you do have to mix, use Upanor, for the longer warranty under the circumstances.