Did Arthas Really Deserve The Maw?

Рет қаралды 66,520

3 жыл бұрын

With Afterlives Bastion it was confirmed that Arthas was in the Maw, but did he really deserve it?
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So in Afterlives Bastion we learned the truth of what happened, how when Arthas fell in Icecrown Citadel he was taken by the Kyrians through a backdoor in the Shadowlands and was thrown by Uther directly into the Maw.
However had Arthas gone to the Arbiter, would he really deserve to end up in the Maw, or would he go to Revendreth or even Bastion if we really stretch it?
I talk about Stratholme, the Plague of Lordaeron and how Arthas was manipulated by Mal'Ganis and ultimately the Jailer into becoming what he became.
All of the footage used in the video is copyrighted by Blizzard Entertainment unless stated otherwise. - I am not the owner of any of the art shown in the videos. All artworks belong to their rightful owners. Due to images being shared across various sites it is quite difficult to find who the original artists are. If I used your work I'd be more than happy to give you full credit, just contact me at doronproductionfilms@hotmail.com

Пікірлер: 666

@Doronsmovies 3 жыл бұрын

What do you guys think, did Arthas really deserve his fate in the Shadowlands? Vote on the community tab poll!

@todd5640 3 жыл бұрын

wow:"hey look we reforged wow 3 and now you can use it to make videos look nicer Doron:"no i dont think i will"

@SoulGizmo 3 жыл бұрын

@@todd5640 kinda based ngl

@georgichukarev1975 3 жыл бұрын

So Frostmourne took Arthas' soul when he picked it,so the jailor had an influence on Arthas.The one thing you can really blame Arthas for is the Culling of Stratholme which in my oppinion was the right call,but he should explained Uther what is going on.

@knockcro 3 жыл бұрын

YES! Do I want to se him in Maw? NO

@knockcro 3 жыл бұрын

@@georgichukarev1975 "I call out to the spirits of this place. I will give anything or pay any price, if only you will help me save my people". So yes, he knew what he is getting in to it. Vengeance is never the path of Paladin Arthas. He knew what he was doing, and we all pay the price, so many innocent souls die. PS. I love Arthas, this is just my judgment if it was the real life.

@TheScoundresCantina 3 жыл бұрын

The path to hell is full of good intentions sadly. He definitely needs a redemption arc just like Darth Vader had as he was in truth a victim of frostmourne.

@Doronsmovies 3 жыл бұрын

Pozdrav, nice to see you here.

@TheScoundresCantina 3 жыл бұрын

@@Doronsmovies Always buraz! Jedva cekam bre Shadowlands zbog nostalgije malo! Samo cepaj bre sa videima a mozemo realno i neki collab da radimo ili live stream zajedno :D

@037lazar 3 жыл бұрын

@@Doronsmovies so ti ladno sa Balkanaa? 😁 Svaka čast brate, ogromna podrška!

@popkaZG 3 жыл бұрын

@@037lazar I ja baš gledam :D. Iako da, naglasak vuče na Istočnu Europu. :D

@Lordcollvile 3 жыл бұрын

Супер яко, балканджии сме се събрали. 😄

@jakob6120 3 жыл бұрын

a small part of me is pleased that you used footage from the original warcraft 3 instead of promoting the disaster that was warcraft 3 reforged.

@Mr_Edwards_1995 3 жыл бұрын

*refunded*

@Natha_Kun 3 жыл бұрын

Yeah reforged might be the most selling game if it was done properly and be the peak of blizzards games

@Mr_Edwards_1995 3 жыл бұрын

@@Natha_Kun I think it shows what Blizzard has truly become. Old blizzard would have knocked it out of the park but unfortunately the company has been rotted from the inside out. Mike Morhaime took jabs at current blizzard when announcing his new company. My brother who I used to play WC3 doesn't really play games anymore but when he saw the reforge he was actually thinking about buying it. We made so many memories as kids on that game. Passion> greed.

@Giggle971 3 жыл бұрын

Reforged has shit voice acting. I have no idea why they didn't reuse the original voices

@Tarack1 3 жыл бұрын

Imagine if we have to travel into the maw to retrieve Arthas...oh my days.

@peagames2002 3 жыл бұрын

If that happens, I will return back to play WoW for real. Lmao

@ppsarrakis 3 жыл бұрын

@@peagames2002 we are going to the maw so,yes we will see him for sure...

@Natha_Kun 3 жыл бұрын

There is no way they will not show arthas

@richardhorvath6211 3 жыл бұрын

Maybe Arthas will be our guide in the maw

@Deluxe_Banjos 3 жыл бұрын

If They are still doing things with Arthas of course we will do something with Arthas.

@kyrios0307 3 жыл бұрын

Uther when casting Arthas into the maw: "GOODBYE JOJO!!"

@vantext4912 3 жыл бұрын

Such unexpected commen like it anyway

@fluffyfluffs1167 3 жыл бұрын

DIOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

@kekduck 3 жыл бұрын

Uther: Not Vengeance! JUSTICE! Arthas: No! Jailer, ZA WARUDO TOKI YO TOMARE! Uther and Devos: What the Fu..../Time stops/

@hectorandem2944 3 жыл бұрын

_To be continued..._

@dirtblock2302 3 жыл бұрын

Kel’Thuzad definitely deserves the Maw thought.

@mail123619 3 жыл бұрын

Hah true

@Umirua 3 жыл бұрын

Maybe he got it even, maybe he got to Maldraxxus after a deal with the Jailer

@Stekaren 3 жыл бұрын

@@Ghosthee His thought is: "I told you my death would mean little".

@cainezyg3310 3 жыл бұрын

@@Umirua naw the jailer can't escape. He wouldn't be able to get him out

@Umirua 3 жыл бұрын

@@cainezyg3310 Maybe not the Jailer but what about others? Shadowlands isn't completely out yet. I mean the thing between him and Sylvanas wasn't completely clear even

@jozefkucera8402 3 жыл бұрын

An Karanir Thanagor!

@ProtossTempest 3 жыл бұрын

Honestly, Revendreth would be more fitting for Arthas. Get judged to face his sins, likely to express remorse, be sent back to Arbiter, and likely final rest would be in Bastion

@gothkrix 3 жыл бұрын

I agree. His drive was to save his people no matter the cost, to him even his own soul wasn't as valuable as the lives in his kingdom so Bastion would be the best fit for him. However, before that he would have to go to Revendreth to atone for his sins.

@trollzynisaacjohan1793 3 жыл бұрын

Your kidding right. He manipulated his men in murdering mercenaries before frostmourne. Arthas slaughtered millions. He's worse than sylvanas considering he created her. Fuck Arthas. That's why he's such a good villain. He's an evil piece of shit.

@bandit7459 3 жыл бұрын

While I consider stratholme a necessary evil. He made to many fucked decisions before frostmourne and than also before he put on the helmet... And thats what it comes down to. He is far from innocent.

@Arigost 3 жыл бұрын

Arthas was not just a victim but perhaps the worst affected because he was forced to do those things and then has to live the rest of eternity with that pain and guilt.

@knockcro 3 жыл бұрын

"I call out to the spirits of this place. I will give anything or pay any price, if only you will help me save my people" he knew what he was doing.

@Arigost 3 жыл бұрын

@@knockcro Said at the height of his anxiety/desperation to as you pointed out save his people he could have no possible idea the payment would be his own soul there were powers at play manipulating him he didn't even know existed.

@knockcro 3 жыл бұрын

@@Arigost Muradin, Uthar, Jaina, his father and Medivh worn him of hiss doom if he continue this revenge path. Medivh is prophet and he forsee what is he doing. Everey one knew it what will happened, and he is not uneducated character, he was princ, train as Palaidn. Muradin told him that runeblade is cursed, and he should leave this place. So many innocent souls die, blood elf genocid, wrath gate, creating abomination, rage and hate to kill dreadlord even though he knew revenge is not our path, path of Paladin. He freely deliver his soul and body to Lich King. Garosh and Sylvans are small babies compare to his evil doing.

@hvyarms4496 3 жыл бұрын

He's was losing his light as he was killing those he thought were infected, which shows his doubts but did it anyways. Then sacrificed everyone who was with him for a chance at revenge, he deff had some darkness to deal with

@Arigost 3 жыл бұрын

@@hvyarms4496 No denying that he had darkness we all do but Arthas desire for revenge came from him failing his people which he made a vow in his youth after he lost invincible to never do and it drove him mad.

@fefnireindraer144 3 жыл бұрын

Just for the simple fact that the 'angel' faction backdoored him proves he did not deserve the maw, and uther sure as hell didnt deserve the angel 'good' faction (as he gave into and committed an act of evil). As far as im concerned, uther is not longer a paladin as he violated a law far above him.

@lionsinofprideescanor8709 3 жыл бұрын

Arthas: what am i doing father? Terenas: you're succeeding me.. Arthas *takes frostmourne and stabs himself* Arthas: lol wtf dad? Terenas: you gonna rot in the Maw son

@lichking654 3 жыл бұрын

Who decided that

@brassspeck3673 3 жыл бұрын

A god damn *Glad I could make it , Arthas* reference , nice.

@chromaether 3 жыл бұрын

there's no question, arthas was no more the moment he touched the frostmourne and lost his free will, he definitely doesn't deserve the maw and i'm gonna go ahead and say he shouldn't even go to ravendreth. I hope we will be able to save him this expansion. Also, stratholme was no "sacrifice", all these people would have even worse fate if not for arthas and probably at least like half of them turned into undead even before arthas could get to them anyway

@happymushroom8740 3 жыл бұрын

That's not true His humanity was entirely abolished when he rose from the Frozen throne. There was Arthas still inside, it was depicted in the book as a weak and sick child.

@god6ix849 3 жыл бұрын

Apparently Bolvar is the guide of this xpac, I personally think arthas will become the guide for the last half when we venture into the maw

@god6ix849 3 жыл бұрын

I wouldn’t doubt it if bolvar and arthas work together to defeat the jailer

@niydfass1060 3 жыл бұрын

Didn't Arthas pay a bunch of mercenaries to burn his army's ships so they couldn't leave, then ordered the army to kill the mercenaries before he touched Frostmourne?

@theradgegadgie6352 3 жыл бұрын

@@niydfass1060 Correct.

@Mussie099 3 жыл бұрын

As the old saying goes, "The road to hell, is paved with good intentions"

@d9nx239 3 жыл бұрын

Arthas, High King of the Alliance.

@finnheisenheim8274 3 жыл бұрын

Another life, another time

@reasonablekinda2269 3 жыл бұрын

Would’ve loved to see that timeline.

@brinegret 3 жыл бұрын

No he didn't but everyone glances over the fact he was corrupted by Frostmourne and thinks he suddenly just wanted to screw everyone over.

@RavenHUHable 3 жыл бұрын

oh yes because he didn't do anything fucked up before he wielded Frostmourne

@wickedAberration 3 жыл бұрын

@@RavenHUHable I mean, the only really unjustifiable action was the whole slaughtering his mercenaries and burning the ships, which ain't that far from Jaina slaughtering the blood Elves in dalaran.

@ValensBellator 3 жыл бұрын

Claude Wicked The problem there is in the way they brushed jaina’s actions under the rug, not that we justifiably see Arthas as being responsible for his own vices that made him so susceptible to manipulation.

@silverspear21 3 жыл бұрын

I thought he was corrupted by the power he got and more importantly the armor of the Lich King.

@silverspear21 3 жыл бұрын

@@wickedAberration The two cannot be compared at all. Jaina did not slaughter innocently. She retaliated to a group that openly went against the neutrality of the Kirin Tor and sided with the Horde. She gave them the option to leave Dalaran, face incarceration and they chose to fight. A great majority that died chose to side with the Horde even after Jaina gave them the option. Dalaran and the Kirin Tor was neutral and Garrosh and the sunreavers chose their fate.

@overpbj2672 3 жыл бұрын

Knowing our luck when we raid the Jailer he'll be the body guard or a general or something we have to kill again.

@abiybattlespell8401 3 жыл бұрын

with h0w time w0rks in the maw maby arthas is the jailer!!!

@ashen9381 3 жыл бұрын

It feels like they undermined Uthers character. Cause I think he spoke in icecrown Citadel talking about how he decided to hold the good memory of Arthas in his heart. He didnt really sound very vengeful

@ignacystefanczyk3635 3 жыл бұрын

"I've not come for what you hoped to do, I've come for what you did" - V for Vendetta

@xuien 3 жыл бұрын

I know a lot of people are saying he should've went to revendreth, but I honestly feel like he would've gone to maldraxxus.

@ConnorNotyerbidness 3 жыл бұрын

Revendreth is where you go to unburden your soul. Unless you are made a venthyr it is not your final destination. Yu ou are sent there if you are to weighed down by sin or to evil to be of use in the other zones. You are cleansed in the crucible of suffering(figurative idk if they have an actual one) and then sent to your proper "heaven"(all zones in the shadowlands are someones heaven, even if it isnt yours). Or you stay there because revendreth is the perfect fit and are remade into a venthyr

@ValensBellator 3 жыл бұрын

Based on how the rules of the shadowlands work, it sounds like even if he *ultimately* deserved the maw, every soul is entitled to one chance at redemption. So in that regard, no, they cheated him regardless of how terrible he was in life.

@Shear666 3 жыл бұрын

... and something tells me that was the start of whatever happened later in the Shadowlands. Remember how Sylvanas killed herself after WoLK and saw Arthas getting punished? She didn't go to the Arbiter, something grabbed her and purposely showed her that, creating the Sylvanas we know afterwards. The one who suddenly was pretty okay with undead because it was better than that what she saw and even started raising new ones.

@stefanandrejcik571 3 жыл бұрын

Just like Tichondrius said, his soul was first one that frostmourne took in reality his body, his shell was only pawn that was doing Nerzhul's biding, I was angry on Uther, Arthas literally went from one hell to another 😢😢😢

@VeryProfessionalGamer 3 жыл бұрын

except that in the end he wasnt controlled by nerzhul anymore, but controlled all actions himself. Nobbel made a video on that, taking the Novel about Arthas into account. Quick recap: Arthas is in his own "spirit" where he sits on a table with an orc and a child. The orc is nerzhul and the child is his innocent self. Long story short, he kills nerzhul and is then in total control of his actions, the child then tries to convince him to return to the light, as now he can, but Arthas kills the child too, thus killing his own innocence, claiming that its already too late for that.

@stefanandrejcik571 3 жыл бұрын

@@VeryProfessionalGamer je considered himself quilty by slaughtering Stratholme and going into Northrend to get his revenge

@johncarter449 3 жыл бұрын

@@VeryProfessionalGamer In the end what was stopping the scourge destroying azeroth was Arthas last piece of humanity.

@SpiritGRF 3 жыл бұрын

@@VeryProfessionalGamer Bellulargaming actually made a video recently recounting the book. With the new lore coming in the book is presumed to be from the perspective of Arthas/The lich king and the book makes it seem like Arthas is in full control of his actions, but the new argument is now that Arthas wasn't in full control at all and it was all the jailer. Another hint at this from the book is it stats that after the lich king was defeated by the heroes of Azeroth that Arthas instantly felt the guilt of all the bad he did as the lich king after taking off the helm. The theory claims that the helm of Domination tricks the wearer into thinking they are in control, but in truth the jailer is calling the shots and is the true master of the Lich King. This is backed up from new lines from Bolvar saying that there was another presence in the helm fighting him for control that wasn't Nerzul or Arthas. This also explains why and how Sylvanas beat Bolvar as the lich king. Sylvanas made a deal with the jailer and the jailer gave her power to beat the Lich King because Bolvar was resisting the true purpose of the Lich King and that's what Sylvanas meant by "You are unfit to wear this crown" before destroying it.

@NarutoIIPrayer 3 жыл бұрын

1. I wouldn't call it a "rushed" decision, he literally had no time. 2. It's not him culling the city or not is not the "core" problem, it's the fact that the people he trusted the most had abbandonded him when he needed them the most. 3. He wasn't drivenm its more about him understanding that he had nothing to go back to because everyone had left his side, he only had himself to believe in. He didn't know what would happen, no one could've know, but if Jaina and Uther had stayed by his side he might've never taken Frostmourne. In my honest opinion Arthas never did anything wrong, he did everything with the thought of saving his people, if Garrosh didn't end up in the Maw and I think he did more terrible things, then Arthas doesn't deserve the Maw either.

@Sioliar 3 жыл бұрын

Yeap.

@fawnieee 3 жыл бұрын

Arthas gave zero alternative to Jaina and Uther, zero explanation of why it might be justified to slaughter the city. He just expected them to accept his wishes and bend over backwards despite their morals/beliefs. He gave them no understanding of what they were up against, what he had already seen happen it was just "we gotta purge" and expected them to accept that, despite the fact he should have known his "trusted" allies would object without substantial explanation (and no, I don't believe "there was no time to explain!" As an excuse). He was a spoiled brat, let's not pretend that he didn't expect everyone to bend over backwards for him because "he's the heir". There's no introspection, he was weak willed and open to manipulations, his pride and ego is arguably what caused his downfall. He wasn't wary, he never listened to the people he "trusted". Just used and manipulated them to his own ends so he can pretend to be hero, even with the advise given by multiple mentors he supposedly "respected". He sought power and it destroyed him, he got what he deserved. I respect your opinion but Arthas deserves the Maw.

@NarutoIIPrayer 3 жыл бұрын

@@fawnieee He doesn't, specially because there was no alternative. That was a situation with no options and no alternativesm besides Jaina KNEW what they were up against and she saw what happened right before being sent to fetch Uther and Uther KNEW too since he came later to save Arthas and even dared tp JUDGE him for trying his best, holding an undead army with very few resources and people. Arthas may be spoiled but he has always thought of his kingdom first, no matter how you slin it Uther and Jaina didn't even try to listen, instead of asking him what was going on Uther yelled "Have you gone mad?" Uther is so deep inside his own ass that he thinks he know better than someone who's seen it all happen and so is Jaina, who instead of trying to figure a way out, just decided to yeet out of there. Uther was sent away, Jaina left. Arthas did nothing wrong and doesn't deserve the Maw.

@sarethuskami5082 3 жыл бұрын

@@fawnieee You do realise that the city was already infected and turning into undead mere moments after Arthas went in? Do you really think Arthas had the time for a full blown debate or the level of explanation/arguement that would have convinced Uther & Jaina ? I'm all for trying the more 'peaceful' route but once the bullets start flying...you only talk once the bullets have stopped.

@th3ra83 Жыл бұрын

@@fawnieee you do realiE that Jaina knows what the f**kery happens before right? She knows what is inside the grains. And what is happening in the Stratholme really is.....

@vultureofregulusmaverickgaming 3 жыл бұрын

Ik its a stretch but i think arthas would og gone to bastion

@Doronsmovies 3 жыл бұрын

I agree.

@madzaisa 3 жыл бұрын

If we judge Arthas as he was before *any* interference to his mind and soul, this is plausible scenario.

@masterofcolddark6892 3 жыл бұрын

i image arthas in bastion as some sort of holy dk like one of orginal horsemans with bastion theme skeletal horse and sword, etc stuff

@ConnorNotyerbidness 3 жыл бұрын

@@madzaisa the book made it clear arthas had a lot of not just flaws but signs of mental health problems. Idk if bastion would be the right fit even if he deserved leaving the maw (he doesnt)

@RohanPinto1 3 жыл бұрын

We need arthas a redemption arc. His name character everything oozes the greatest paladin of the light

@ItmeTummy 3 жыл бұрын

Did Arthas deserve The Maw? No. Did the Lich King deserve The Maw? Absolutely.

@alucardzutain6062 3 жыл бұрын

arthas deserved it, after stratholme.... no frostmourne who poisoned his mind, no lich king to control him. his lust for revenge brought him to the maw. fuck arthas.

@tnnetnattninuttn4627 3 жыл бұрын

@@alucardzutain6062 imagine that someone close to you was implanted with a bomb that will explode in few hours and kills you, your family and some other people unless the person with the bomb is killed. Now tell me why you believe it is so evil to kill the person instead of letting it die anyway and killing more people?

@Mediados 3 жыл бұрын

Statholme may have been a cold hearted move, but he was not wrong. If he wouldnt have purged the city, the entire population, probably thousands of people, would have joined the ranks of the Scourge. Uther may have had good intentions but in the short time left before their evolution into Undead, he couldnt have saved anyone.

@jamesbaggett3655 3 жыл бұрын

They needed to die

@ragael1024 3 жыл бұрын

In medieval times, during an outbreak, sick people would be literally stoned inside their homes, to stop or at least, try to contain the contamination. And some of those people were not sick. Maybe just had the common cold. Enough for the rest to suspect you and your death sentence was given. If the plague does not kill you, hunger or thirst would. Now imagine an entire city of tens, probably hundreds of thousands of people infected with that plague. Oh and... that plague will genetically alter them into flesh eating zombies that will obey those that want to wipe out humanity itself. So... is it morally wrong to kill those people in order to save the living from a wave of fresh undead troops that will only help adding to their ranks with each death they cause? Probably. But was there any other choice, considering the king and all but ONE of his advisers believed this plague to be nothing more than a local issue? Considering the military was still largely ignorant? Considering communication in these medieval settings to be a problem, nowhere near instantaneous to be truly effective to counter such a threat until it was too late? I think not. Containment failed. Drop the nuke, or we all die. Arthas is innocent in my eyes. Prideful, arrogant, but his heart was to save people. And he felt like dying with each citizen he killed. But in the span of 10min or so, nothing else could be done to save the whole country.

@badfoody 3 жыл бұрын

Arthas was aware of his actions. He died unrepentant. If the Arbiter was around, Arthas would still land in the Maw

@tucgalardo378 3 жыл бұрын

I have one question if Jailor was the one controling Arthas all this time, and plus frostmoure wich is the weapon from the shadowlands, where is in that equation Nher Zul?

@samurai90x 2 жыл бұрын

@7 B Ketan Kumar all this shit is retcons anyways so who cares.

@kruth6663 3 жыл бұрын

If even Arthas doesn't suffice, then the Maw must be super empty, with only a handful of lonely souls roaming inside it.

@kruth6663 3 жыл бұрын

@Lævateinn Well, Arthus committed genocides on multiple races and almost succeeded, two of the horde playable races were created because of those genocides. I don't think Garrosh comes even close to what Arthus has done. Unless you don't regard him as Arthus ever after he acquires Frost Mourn, which I don't think makes sense.

@kyliekay447 3 жыл бұрын

Did the jailer really deserve the maw? To be continued 🙌

@th3ra83 2 жыл бұрын

Jailer: Excuse me sir. But I am Maw itself.

@TheMarko33 3 жыл бұрын

No! Not into the Maw! It Burns!

@AntiochusDC 3 жыл бұрын

arthus is the reason why i love wow lore

@larannaslore116 3 жыл бұрын

When I did my vids on who ends up where I put Arthas in Revendreth. I based the Arbitors judgements on actions prior to being cursed by undeath/old gods etc.

@maciekmulak709 3 жыл бұрын

As i remeber when he became the lich King he tried to fight it and gave us the needed time thanks to it, also he all the time had (correct me if i remeber this wrong) necklace or smth like that which was somehow bound with his love - jaina, all those things combined with what you said - no, he absolutely did not deserve such fate

@SacuraShadowDemon 3 жыл бұрын

He should have been in Revendreth at least.

@jeffulloa218 3 жыл бұрын

Maybe even Maldraxxus. Arthas himself wasn't evil, he was being manipulated and the real him surfaced for a brief moment after his defeat. As someone who, at least deep inside, had good intentions and spent his life looking for power, he would've fit in Maldraxxus.

@Nek-oski 3 жыл бұрын

Seeing what Revendreth does to Garrosh, i dont think it is that much better than the Maw though :p

@Finish303 3 жыл бұрын

Maldraxxus, his regret became his power and will to lead armies to defend innocents. Or Revendreath and that he would go Bastion to retrieve souls instead. Heck wouldn't be suprised if he was sent to Bastion directly, let's think bout it. He has regrets for ever going for the sword, so Bastion would offer him to take away the memories and serve the dying as a Kyrian. But here is the other, undead sould get send to the Maw automatically. Every zone would have worked except Nightfae.

@abdalrahmankhataan7231 3 жыл бұрын

@@Finish303 along with him being the most selfless...he was actually ready to sacrifice himself at any point if it was the way to save his people...atleast that's him before picking up frostmourne

@Finish303 3 жыл бұрын

@@abdalrahmankhataan7231 Frostmourne took his soul, he isn't complelty blameless because he was warned to not take the cursed sword. But like you said he did it for his people and was tricked/manipulated into becoming a pawn.

@mrbruhman7536 3 жыл бұрын

Iv been a fan since u started dorons movies im so glad ur still making videos

@traviswarden5754 3 жыл бұрын

This brings to light an interesting topic if Forstmourne was a weapon of The Jailer, what about characters wielding Shadowmourne?

@Aspectt10 3 жыл бұрын

We do not know! The Arbiter did not judge him yet!

@Uouttooo 3 жыл бұрын

Oh using the insanity defense now, are we?

@ManhuaGod 3 жыл бұрын

Yes, Because that way, he's gonna meet the old one "First being" and we get another expansion with arthas in it.

@danielzborai5986 3 жыл бұрын

No, he didn’t. Ner'zhul deserved the Maw.

@lichking654 3 жыл бұрын

Ner'zhul was deceived by Kil'jaeden so Kil'jaeden deserve the maw

@felixdumbravescu2725 3 жыл бұрын

@@lichking654 no wait Kill'Jaden was deceived by Sargeras, so Sargeras deserves the maw :P

@kadorassaw1326 3 жыл бұрын

@@felixdumbravescu2725 No Void lords deserved the maw

@lichking654 3 жыл бұрын

@@kadorassaw1326 good luck tickling one they are a beast to what me and anything in azeroth are angels compare to them

@FreeHugsVoldemort 2 жыл бұрын

Since kel'thuzad is in shadowlands, now i have to think about kel'thuzad crying cause arthas is now being tortured in the maw

@isaacnunesturci6924 3 жыл бұрын

The problem is the book Arthas ( I don't know how much of it is canon anymore). There, Arthas "kill" his child form representing his innocence, and Ner Zul, assuming full control as Lich King. Of course, he was still played and made a pawn in a much bigger game, but he embraces his fate, reppenting only in the very end.

@zeppelinled3967 3 жыл бұрын

he didn't have a soul anymore... it was in the blade. why was it then that the first thing that the lich king did was cut out his own heart? why is it that we meet Matthias Lehner? there is only one explanation, the one in control isn't arthas.

@shadowgamer4306 3 жыл бұрын

zeppelin led Who is Mathias Lehner?

@Xalocin 3 жыл бұрын

Shadow Gamer Matthias lehner is an anagram for Arthas menethil and a child ghost in icecrown . He represents Arthas human side and innocence. He gives the best quests in icecrown ingame

@zeppelinled3967 3 жыл бұрын

@Washington Bear frostmourne isn't an entity? how do you know? sword is depicted to learn from the souls of it's victims and is able to executed their techniques flawlessly. plus we know that the runes on the frostmourne, helm of domination and the jailor match. so how can you say that they are not connected?

@zeppelinled3967 3 жыл бұрын

@Washington Bear what makes the helm of domination an entity? is it a ner'zhul's soul? if so then there are thousands of souls inside Frostmourne some as strong if not stronger than Ner'zhul himself

@Kunori 3 жыл бұрын

The game structure sort of reinforces the loss of control by Arthas. He makes a deal with Frostmourne - 'help me kill Mal'Ganis and I'll accept any price'. The human campaign continues only so far as he finishes that one last thing - the last thing he chose to do before taking up the sword - and the story even makes a point of showing that 'Frostmourne' lives up to its end of the bargain. It's after that exact scene that the campaign ends, which is normally when we start following a different character - implying that Arthas after that was a different character. I always figured that Arthas' soul was the first one Frostmourne took, or at least damaged (the way Uther's was), and that's why his personality changes so much.

@hyperjgaming5768 3 жыл бұрын

With the way that the Cinematic framed what Uther and Devos did as a requirement to ensure he goes to the maw, its highly likely that the Shadowlands systems function so that NO SOUL will ever go straight to the maw, its likely that every single soul is given one last chance in Revendreth and if they never atone then they are sent to the maw, this is likely the case given that Devos was adament that her and Uther had to be the ones that did it, as if he would not of been sent to the Maw UNLESS they saw to it themselves.

@chrissnyder8415 3 жыл бұрын

Something is going wrong in Shadow Lands and everyone is going straight to the Maw. One of the main objectives is to figure out who is behind it and then put a stop to it. Thus returning order to the afterlife. Then on to the next expansion

@HunGerMovies 3 жыл бұрын

His story has still so much potential, but it is easy to screw it up. Hopefully they won't.

@svendays 3 жыл бұрын

Arthas was a victim of his own wrath. He choose vengeance over his soul and his people. Ironically, that ended with him never actually being able to kill Mal'Ganis.

@HaxeRoxas13 3 жыл бұрын

He wasn't regretful for the things he had done, he was regretful he got caught >:(

@manavein8870 3 жыл бұрын

He actually did some bad things before taking Frostmourne. He lied to his men and refused orders to go home, so he hired some mercenaries to burn down their ships so his men couldn't go back, then he tells his men that the mercenaries were at fault so he killed them. Arthas having a redemption arc is okay but I want people to be a bit skeptical here because did bad things by his own accord too.

@osamudazai579 3 жыл бұрын

Arthas did Nothing Wrong. He is a Tragic Hero.

@hermit44 3 жыл бұрын

Arthas Redemption Arc! Let's go bois!!!

@adamhunter3692 3 жыл бұрын

Wasn't it stated that by the time he was defeated, Arthas was in complete control of the Lich King as he had essentially defeated Nerzuls soul. Wouldnt that be confirmation that he deserves to be in the Maw seeing as he ripped out his own heart so he could get away from his human emotions and be able to be more ruthless and cruel? Isn't the Maw there specifically for people like this? Death bed repentance does not redeem people from this scale of death and destruction

@makedragon 3 жыл бұрын

We could see Arthas somehow escaping The Maw at some point during the expa for a redemption story, like the one Illidan had.

@leonardoquickgyro12 3 жыл бұрын

But what about that time he literally murdered the last remnant of his innocence and humanity along with Ner'zhul

@mansoorali9943 3 жыл бұрын

The title of this video is the same as someone asking "Does a murderer really deserve to go to jail" ?

@silentpriest3376 3 жыл бұрын

i believed Arthas was most likely a necrolord or maybe a venthr due to his corruption being for the greater good of his people

@zeppelinled3967 3 жыл бұрын

if uther deserved a spot in the bastion, which if you ask me, considering his actions in heartglen and stratholme(the fact that he knew about Mal'ganis being in stratholme and didn't even do jack shit to help; if he was a paragon of justice like people claim, then why didn't he try to evacuate those that were going to be slaughtered 'unjustly'(according to him at least)?) seem a little bit doubtful to say the least, then arthas for sure did deserve a place somewhere else. If not in the bastion then at the very least in the undead realms

@peagames2002 3 жыл бұрын

Yeah, it was a dilemma of Stratholme, how else you were supposed to deal with the unknown disease? You couldn't heal or save them, and they would've died slowly instead. Even though Arthas's action was cruel, it might've given some of the people the sweet release from the deadly disease, while others were succumbed to undeath.

@ConnorNotyerbidness 3 жыл бұрын

Had uther acted against arthas after he was stripped of rank and the order disbanded by arthas it would have been called high treason and be grounds for execution. If uther acted, uther would die for nothing

@zeppelinled3967 3 жыл бұрын

@@ConnorNotyerbidness mate,he is a paragon of Justice is he not? then what does a paragon of justice hold most dearly? is it his life? is it loyalty? or is it justice? why didn't he smuggle civilians out of the city? why did he leave the city without caring about what would happen to the citizens that would be executed unjustly? tell me does this fit a paragon of justice? is this how you imagine a saint that was deemed to be worthy of a bastion to act?

@zeppelinled3967 3 жыл бұрын

@@peagames2002 it wasn't about dieing slowly. arthas knew that transformation was swift, that's why he didn't sit there and debate whether or not he should call Mages of Dalaran to solve the dilemma. sadly, uther knew as well if not as much, he knew where Mal'ganis was at the very least, yet didn't give two fucks about it.

@ConnorNotyerbidness 3 жыл бұрын

@@zeppelinled3967 and again i say- if uther did anything he would have been executed and it wouldnt have done any good. His death would accomplish nothing and would also mean he wouldnt be around to help after arthas further went off the deep end- which uther fully recognized that arthas was now seriously dangerous even to his own people. And arguably loyalty goes hand in hand with justice. He admits there are commands he wont follow but also everyone there who walked away also admitted that they Saw no other solution. Culling stratholme may have been the right decision, even if it felt like the wrong one. But uther wasnt gonna be the one to make that choice for the people and neither was jaina. So they walked away.

@HouseOfAlastrian 3 жыл бұрын

If Garrosh Hellscream, whose intentions were conquest, bloodshed and hatred of all non-orc life, and Kael'thas Sunstrider, who betrayed his own people to join the Burning Legion are judged by The Arbiter as deserving a chance of redemption, then Arthas, who did grim things in Stratholme in the interest of containing the Plague of Undeath and whose will was not his own the moment he picked up Frostmourne for the first time definitely deserves to drag a sinstone around Revendreth for a bit.

@zamek128 3 жыл бұрын

Noone deserves to suffer endlessly

@jarosh9612 3 жыл бұрын

Well he did purge an entire city, got consumed by rage and a few other things. However, frostmourne took over as soon as he touched it. Everything after that is up for discussion. He even kept a few items that reminded him of his old life.

@LordTelperion 3 жыл бұрын

Yes. Arthas went full force into the dark side and literally murdered half a dozen nations even before becoming the Lich King.

@Godrip 3 жыл бұрын

Arthas is the Darth Vader villain of Warcraft.

@jpf7942 3 ай бұрын

I think Uther dropping Arthas into the Maw like that was highly out of character

@poceaionut2423 3 жыл бұрын

If you read rise of the lich king you will find after stratholme the light kinda abandoned him but when the shards of ice around frostmourner wounded muradin badly the light start to glow in his hands and he had chance to save muradin (thankfully he lived) but he chise not to. He said he must let muradin die, to be the price he has to pay. He willingly let muradin out there to die. Also when he was inside his mind with nerzul and last part of good in him he not only killed that part but he also killed nerzul to take control over the lich king. Agaib he willingly did this. So yeah, arthas kinda deserve his fate

@poceaionut2423 3 жыл бұрын

I Matei as far as i red is part of arthas good which he killed willingly and after betrayed nerzul to asume full control over the lich king. Frostmourne is no escuse. He had the chance to save muradin and leave but he chose not to

@killeing 3 жыл бұрын

I would definitely say he deserved Punishment but in this case the Venthyr- everything that happened from the moment he put on the crown was outside of his control. He began with the noblest of intentions of just trying to save his kingdom but went down a dark path, very similar to Kael'thas who went to find a cure for his people which resulted in becoming corrupt to the point of bringing the burning legion to azeroth and almost summoning Kil'jaeden himself which would've wiped out life on azeroth in the process :/

@grantshepherd94 3 жыл бұрын

My King deserves to come back to Azeroth and be reunited with Jaina

@bb-ms2ln 3 жыл бұрын

Idk, but if Arthas can duel wield broken Frostmourne & light's vengeance while being soul form in maw, I am in.

@Whatever209804 3 жыл бұрын

But wasn’t it in wrath of the much king that it showed that it was arthas, fully conscious of his decision, when it showed that he threw the last of his humanity away, as well as destroyed naz’gul, only he was the lich king, not some shared entity in the rnd

@bleachfannn 3 жыл бұрын

I see that most of people watch these youtube videos about Arthas and see only the part of story where he was corrupted by Frostmourne. In reality Arthas started chasing Mal’Ghanis only because of his vengeance, arrogance, ambitions. He never really cared about his people, that’s why he was so eager to “purge” them without trying to save them from plague. After that he killed Muradin, betrayed some mercenaries and sacrificed his own people only to have his revenge. He even admits it in Warcraft III dialogues and all that BEFORE the took Frostmourne. Not to mention that he did took it intentionally and willingly accepted the curse to prove his power and have his vengeance.

@95Kamikaze 3 жыл бұрын

Oh please, he willingly killed Muradin, even after being told by the guardians and his dwarf friend too. He still did it... A cursed soul can go only to the maw... He accepted the curse williingly.

@landry6253 3 жыл бұрын

Frostmourne mind controls. Look what kingsmourne did to anduin when he tried to resist. Sword glows blue. Arthas's blue glowing eyes faded at thesame time the blue glowing shattered frostmourne faded. And then he asked his father of the nightmare was over. Arthas loved his father. Thats why he pulled him. Like he was trapped mind controlled like Hawkeye was from loki. However arthas is not mind controlled like hawkeye by loki or by another being. He is being held corrupted and put in a "sunken place" by the Sword!!!! (anduin sword glows blue and his armor, you can see that blue light on them) HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN THIS?? LOOK AT ANDUINS EYES AFTER HE KILLS THE ARCHON kzfaq.info/get/bejne/mcibhKiYy8W4cac.html Yeah that's right. It wasn't arthas's fault.. it was frostmourne and the lich king fault.. Look at the eyes and frostmournes glow kzfaq.info/get/bejne/brOFlpCjtqqcmmQ.html&feature=emb_title It mind controlled him When he was walking here he was mind controlled as he hears all of his friends telling him to go back kzfaq.info/get/bejne/ftCkocmYp7DFias.html After arthas kills malganis look what it said. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/arpzoM-KnrO5qYk.htmlm06s You cant judge arthas. That's like judging boromir when he was trying to take the ring off frodo. That's like judging a mind controlled Hawkeye by loki in 2012 avengers for killing people. Unless you've been mind controlled and broke from it then you can judge him. Also these are superhuman. You wont break out of frostmourne. It makes a cocaine addiction look like pre school.

@user-ls3mg1co1t 3 жыл бұрын

What if we go back to retrieve Arthas from the Maw SO HE CAN KILL ONCE MORE THE BANSHEE QUEEN?!!

@Slidius 3 жыл бұрын

he didn't deserve the maw and also uther and that angel interfered in arthas's afterlife and uther didn't get any of the context that we did in the end so it feels bad the entire situation

@zacharystanphill748 3 жыл бұрын

If Garrosh didn’t deserve the Maw, then Arthas didn’t.

@happybalint 3 жыл бұрын

Thank you for saying this. I made a post on the forums saying that Arthas didn't deserve the maw but everyone was against me saying that he was evil even before Frostmourne and that he was in control after he picked up the sword.

@silverspear21 3 жыл бұрын

He purged an entire city. He killed off any soldier that wanted to go home just because. He knew the sword was cursed before he picked it up and yet still did it. He knew the consequences. He killed off his human side so he would not have the temptations to do good. He is/was evil and deserves the maw. If you commit evil you need to be punished for it.

@manavein8870 3 жыл бұрын

Because Arthas did bad things before even touching Frostmourne like burning his mens' ships so they can't return home by hiring mercenaries, and then betraying them by blaming it on the mercenaries and killing them.

@silverspear21 3 жыл бұрын

@I Matei what facts? Please post them.

@silverspear21 3 жыл бұрын

@I Matei the ends do not justify the means. Do you not remember Matthias lehner? Tirion looked into the heart and knew that arthas could not be redeemed. So unless two of the greatest paladins are wrong or they know more about him than we do. Both Tirion and Uther knew arthas could not be redeemed and he was evil. He chose evil. He chose to be cursed. Now yogg could have been tricking Tirion and the player in destroying the heart and ner'zhul could have also been helping. If that is the case then maybe arthas has a chance of being redeemed.

@hectorandem2944 3 жыл бұрын

So Sylvanas is - rightfully - blamed for all the crazy shit she's done, but people think the very person who turned Sylvanas into an undead Bamshee in the first place can be redeemed? 🤔 *Interesting.*

@lightvaj6549 3 жыл бұрын

Refer back to his last conversation with Muradin in WC3.

@orkunkoksal8711 3 жыл бұрын

Arthas was arrogant for sure, but this was his first major battle. He was eager to prove himself to his father and Uther. He was also scared, because the undead was nothing they had ever faced before. During the first two wars, he was just a kid unaware of much of the things that were going on. He didn't know anything about Ner'zhul or him being the Lich King and ultimate ruler of the undead. He thought Mal'ganis was the ruler of undead, so he thought if he killed Mal'ganis, he would put an end to the scourge. Also when he took Frostmourne, he lost his soul to it and after he merged with ner'zhul, there was no more Arthas. Even ner'zhul said after their merging that "no more Ner'zhul, no more Arthas. Only Lich King".

@dreadcool3329 3 жыл бұрын

If Arthas comes back i dont want to see him wielding a hammer thats for sure.

@basbarbeque6718 3 жыл бұрын

I'm pretty sure the entire point of the Bastion cinematic was that Arthas did not. He was unjustly (ironically by Uther talking about justice) thrown in there which I believe played a role in the breaking of the system

@okwaho5316 3 жыл бұрын

I think the biggest problem is he didn't have the chance to go through venthyr. That should have been his choice. But also his actions largely manipulated by the Jailor. Also undead go to the Maw automatically which is completely unfair

@zerosiii 3 жыл бұрын

"The Light has struck a deal with the enemy of all" They are probably going to tie all this together. The light, for some unknown reason (probably in order to fight the void in the end), decides to help the Jailor escape the Maw. One of Light's champions (Arthas) has been manipulated into taking up Frostmourne, killing his mentor Uther, and splitting his soul in half. Then, Uther and Devos have been manipulated into taking Arthas' soul and throwing him in the Maw. This act of throwing Arthas into the Maw is probably something that the Jailor needed in order to start his plan to escape. Which is all stupid by the way... it obviously wasn't planned this way back, and it makes the whole WotLK expansion meaningless (the quests with Mathias Lehner were really cool, but now they just seem silly if this was all orchestrated even before WC3 even began)

@krableja2517 3 жыл бұрын

Not only does the shadowlands expansion make wotlk meaningless, it makes most of the lore meaningless. The shadowlands didnt even exist in Blizzards mind in Legion, they became a thing in BFA when blizzard realized they are about to reach their natural conclusion of the story, and that is 1 expansion (which should be shadowlands 1) where we deal with N'zoth and the old gods, 1 filler expansion (Garrosh 3.0) and then the void lords, but blizzard wants many more expansions so they decided to basically retcon EVERYTHING...

@mr.authentic2505 3 жыл бұрын

His coming back believe me hehhehe

@kinanatto257 3 жыл бұрын

I believe the lore demands him to ba at the maw, at endgame he will kill the jailor. I'm putting my own money on this scenario.

@heyttorjorge1811 3 жыл бұрын

Lore of the Void Magic, please.

@stubt4322 3 жыл бұрын

@5:13 that cute little rat coming up behind Arthas! :-p

@supermal112233 3 жыл бұрын

Arthas was doomed the moment he touched the cursed blade Frostmourne. Frostmourne didn't just only slowly corrupt Arthas, it consumed his soul. A weapon that masters you. The Lich King predicted and used the young's prince's desperation against him. Power at any cost. The Fel Orcs, Kael'thas, and others have made similar mistakes. Uther judged Arthas unfairly mainly because let's be for real, Uther isn't the brightest tool in the shed, his soul was spliced by the maw's weaponry, and Devos was forcing it pretty hard. If Uther knew everything he would absolutely not throw Arthas in.

@albodav9602 3 жыл бұрын

5:57 just that xD

@Themaxxrad99 2 жыл бұрын

Let him rot in the Maw, Uther my boy deserved better and Arthus was a punk ass bitch before his corruption. This video from blizzard is probably one of the best things they have done in years (IMO) and if they go back on it to free Arthus or redeem him it will retroactively ruin this amazing moment. I actually love Arthus, like a lot but in the way I like a horror movie villain. He should be this badass unstoppable being of pure evil and to muddy that water would suck a lot.

@099Nitro 3 жыл бұрын

Dalaran. Lordaeron. Quel'thalas. All these are definitley the faults of Arthas. The corspecount doesn't lie. THe Maw isa fitting fate for him.

@ClassicNguyen 3 жыл бұрын

Before Arthas finally took in the Lich King, he had to rid himself of his purities. The book talks about a dream he has where he sits with Ner'zhul and himself. Even though he had already committed his crimes, the boy represented his sense of remorse. Definitely a different fate if it wasn't for The Legion. I do hope we come across Arthas again in Shadowlands. Ally or foe, he deserves to be back in the game!

@Sizdothyx 3 жыл бұрын

"Did Arthas deserve The Maw?" Uh ... yes? Hell is kinda the final stop for bad people, isn't it?

@velicanavci4970 3 жыл бұрын

The picture at 1:01 gave me huge ambition to make new paladin alt,damn...

@jare3459 3 жыл бұрын

Even if he was Uther crossed a line real question is Uther even a good guy anymore

@victorhorvath7148 3 жыл бұрын

arthas really did deserve the maw, muradin warned him about the blade and even before that, his actions truly were questionable

@Hexamore1994 3 жыл бұрын

After merging with Ner'Zhul he eventually took over 100% and destroyed Ner'Zhuls spirit. During Wrath of the Lich King it is Arthas in control, 100%. If he is not worthy of the Maw, noone is.

@JW-jd6sn 3 жыл бұрын

Would arthas not go to the bastion, he is a great example of someone that thinks he is doing the best through terrible actions. As he said, he would have burdened any curse to save his people, once he took frostmourne he was lost

@harz632 3 жыл бұрын

Jaina: "Arthas I can't watch you purge the city from humans that are already doomed and will turn undead and spread the plague, instead let me go here and purge some innocent blood elves from a different city."

@silverspear21 3 жыл бұрын

"innocent".........good one. Jaina gave them a choice, they chose the mass murdering Horde. They got what they deserved.

@harz632 3 жыл бұрын

@@silverspear21 They didn't choose the horde, they didn't even do anything at all when the horde moved troops through dalaran, Garrosh told them to not do anything or hell kill them so they didn't do anything. Meanwhile Dalaran sent Bloodelves as troops to theramire to fight the horse. Jet Jaina claimed that theramore was a neutral city as the entire reasoning why she is purging them. Plus not all the Bloodelves even knew about it, only a few of those Bloodelves knew yet she killed and imprisoned all of them. But hei, what can you expect from the Alliance, it was the Alliance that drove the Bloodelves to the horde in the first place with their racism towards highelves.

@silverspear21 3 жыл бұрын

@@harz632 1. Jaina was not part of the Alliance so claiming the whole Alliance and racism does not fit. 2. Jaina did give them an option. Go back and read the quests and do the entire quest line from both sides. Those that chose to stay with the horde were jailed or killed if they fought back. 3. Garrosh used the sunreavers which were supposed to be neutral and claimed to be as well. 4. True not all blood elves knew about it but their leader did and again those that were punished had picked the Horde instead of remain neutral.

@harz632 3 жыл бұрын

@@silverspear21 1.For Jaina not being part of the alliance she was really sympathetic and supportive of them. 2. Ah yes, a amazing choice, hei you innocent person over there give up all your lives achievement, and be imprisoned or I kill you. If you say that was a choislce, then did you know that Hitler gave the Jews a choice too? He told them to leave Germany before imprisoning and killing them.

@silverspear21 3 жыл бұрын

@@harz632 1. Of course she was but she was more supportive of peace between the two factions. Did you forget she basically allowed her father to die in the name of peace? Jaina supports peace not one faction, or at least she did back then. Both factions were Neutral and were supposed to remain neutral while in Dalaran and both of the magi factions from Dalaran the Silver covenant and the Sunreavers were supposed to be neutral as well. 2. The choice was to leave the city, or go to prison. They chose to side with the Horde so they were the enemy since the Horde had already started the conflict. Even on the Horde quest side you see this better than you do on the Alliance side. 3. Did the Jews side with an evil faction that had just broken peace and started another conflict and stolen a WMD? The Jews did not side with anyone evil nor did they pick a side they were just there. The people in Dalaran picked the Horde which were evil. They had already used a WMD and were seeking to use another. Huge difference.

@konkuerobled5085 3 жыл бұрын

bro what do you mean he made a bridge full of dead bodies of children,women and men to cross to silvermoon, he needs to rot in maw

@demonslayer2423 3 жыл бұрын

If u watch the frost dk legendary artifact u see nurzul forcing Arthus to take the sword even when he says i can't the darkness is too much. So yeah i think arthus knew he made a mistake but couldn't go back

@MrJara1018 2 жыл бұрын

If Arthas didn’t deserve it …. Literally no one does

@madzaisa 3 жыл бұрын

The actual question is: Who exactly would have been judged by Arbiter, if Uther didn't do the thing? The person who Atrhas was right before his hand touched Frostmorne? Or did he managed to regain some of his persona later? Because, AFAIK, after death they separate souls from any other influence.

@harz632 3 жыл бұрын

I think that is the entire reason why they bypassed the Arbiter and went straight to the maw, because Arthas would have been deemed pure, what Arthas did prior to Frostmourne is basically the same strict absolute reasoning Bastion itself uses. That's why it wasn't justice they brought upon Arthas when they threw him into the Maw because they knew that if they didn't throw him into the Maw he would not be sent there.

@Shear666 3 жыл бұрын

@@harz632 I think pure is a bit much but i agree that it wouldn't be the Maw waiting for him. He probably would have ended in one of the other places, maybe the Vampire place. The Maw is for people who are unforgivable Evil and considering who "didn't" end up there that's a very hard critera.

@manavein8870 3 жыл бұрын

Imo he would have been judged on his actions before Frostmourne and being Lich King. It depends on how much control he had but I doubt he had much, if any, as LK. Now, if that's the case then he would've been sent to Ravendreth to attone because he still did bad things as a Paladin before taking Frostmourne.