Your welcome. There is a place for everything. I value surge capacity and longevity. Those transformerless inverters are good if you value speed of install.

Yeah. Maybe boil that 55 gallon drum of water?

I'm sure I could find enough load to test them:)

@@DavidPozEnergy I did see you video on water heating and showed it to my wife Deanna - she was impressed!

i would like to see wattage split evenly at quarter load. cheers!

Ditto! Also show imbalanced loads. All other tubers who test other inverters won't show that test. I have the same ones as you, but I have't setup the 2nd one yet. I bought the kit w/o knowing my Conext GW would allow me to tune the inverters.

Thanks GOG.

Here is the charge controller I'm using: signaturesolar.com/schneider-charge-controller-mppt-100-600/?ref=4_rHcgZ9x-TiF- (affiliate link)

I like Victron equipment. Some day I might get a chance to test a Victron inverter for surge loads, that would be fun.

Good point, it's nice to have the extra heat in winter.

@@DavidPozEnergyDoes this mean that you have to use twice the amount of energy to cool down the heat that it creates plus the additional idle energy that it burns through during the summer months?

I think that it is a shame that you didn’t make a video putting these inverters together on a step by step basis so that DIYers could have been more easily informed about how to do this incredible project. What I find amazing is that my first system in 48V used a Schneider Conext 6048, as I recall. Due to freezing temperatures freezing my lithium batteries out of a Tesla and them starting fire to my solar shed and barn the fire burned down was the driving force behind my acquiring the LTO batteries and Sol-Ark 12K and the two step up 5K Watt generators.

@@fisherus I wouldn't say "shame" - BUT - I would be greatly interested in seeing the build!! My wife and I are attempting the same type of system with Absolyte GX 2,000 Amp hour battery banks for storage... so seeing solar controllers would have been fantastic.

Yes, they are low frequency.

It's the same model. You can change the setting in the Insight Home to 230V, 50htz. Although, if you buy it from a local supplier it might be pre configured?

If you have a single positive conductor, and a single negative conductor, then they don't have to be the same length. In my setup, I have a pair (2) positive conductors, and a pair (2) negative conductors. The positives must be the same length to each other, and the negatives must be the same length to each other, but the positive and negative still don't have to be the same. Note, we are aiming for the same resistance, but the short-hand way of getting there is to make them the same length.

Thanks@@DavidPozEnergy

Thanks for that. I was curious why the value.

The XW PRO inverters can charge a battery from an AC source. This could be the grid and/or generator. Is this what you are asking about, or are you asking about charging a battery with solar? If you want to charge your battery with solar, then you need a separate MPPT solar charge controller.

@@DavidPozEnergy Yes - I need to apply the most amps possible to the Absolyte Battery Bank that I am able with solar. I only want to use the generator as minimally as is possible. Having two of these battery banks made me wonder if it is possible to apply enough power to the banks with solar alone. It would take the XW PRO Inverters less time to charge running a 20KW generator but I prefer to keep the batteries full with as much solar as is possible. How large of an MPPT Controller (100 Amps or more) should I be looking into. A lot of questions in regard to charging these batteries.

Yes. The generator input is now tied to both inverters, so both can charge the battery bank together. However, my generator isn't large enough for all that, so I typically charge through a separate device called a chargeverter: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/equgftSQq82Voqs.htmlsi=l-zh5ue5DpxOoaSC

@@DavidPozEnergy This was one of the questions that I had when we were speaking. Thank you.

Victron Quattro inverter is also good.

Do the math: 1500 kwh/mo = 1,500,000 whr, divide by 30 days - 50,000 whr per day, divide by 24 hrs = 2083 watt per hr. Figure enough solar to produce that using the specific average number of hours of usable sun per day in your location (mine is 6). Then install enough panel, battery and inverter. One 6K inverter should do. What are you doing with 18,000w charge controllers? I've found that finding ways to save current is less expensive than just powering what you already have. Check your math.

I asked Schneider about that. They said it probably has to do with the 1.5 years between manufacturing dates. Remember, usually with Victron each inverter is 120V only. So getting the sync correct is probably a different type of computer thing.

​@@DavidPozEnergyIf he's from Portugal, he's running 240V on his Victrons. Victron also says for parallel configs the manufacturing dates need to be

In idle, each inverter is 34W. I did a few point readings and averaged 96% efficient for the inverter. However, I really need to sit down and do several more data points and plot the efficiency curve to give a better answer.

It comes down to your loads. I have a friend with an off grid property, Poet. Poet has a well about 100 feet deep, so that's considered shallow compared to people out west. That well pump can run on a Growatt 5000, so it would also run on a EG4 6000XP. However, if you truly wanted to re-create the total power of the two Schneiders, you probably need 4 of the EG4 6000XP inverters.

I wouldn't say "vastly superior". I like the Schneider a little more than SMA. Both are excellent build quality, but Schneider built this specifically for the off grid home. The programming is easier on Schneider than SMA. Schneider is set up for DC coupling out of the box and SMA wants AC coupling. There's a few other little things. If you have to pay retail pricing for both, Schneider is the clear winner. If you get a huge discount on the SMA, it might be worth the extra hassle. I'd love to test a Victron quattro, but I don't have the money to buy one just for testing it.

The SCP has been replaced by the Insight Home. You might still find an SCP on the shelf of a distributor, but I don't know.

I've experimented with AC coupling. Yes, the Schneider's work fine with it, and frequency shift as they are made to. However, My grid-tie inverter doesn't handle surges well in comparison to the Schneider's. So, on some heavy surge loads, it doesn't respond as well. It's better to use MPPT charge controllers.

Using solar PV, to charge a battery, to go to electric resistance heating isn't a very cost-affective route. However, using mini-splits for heating (running on electric) can be.

I'd love to test one. Could you elaborate on what you mean when you say "holds up against the Schneiders"? Thanks.

​ @DavidPozEnergy ​sure, some of the features you were praising the Schneider for were having split phase 120/240, large surge capacity, ability to parallel multiple inverters, communication between the inverters. You said there's no other inverter you tested that "does a better job on surges and load imbalance". The 6000XP does all of that + it comes with all the breakers, + it comes with a MPPT Charge Controller for 8KW Solar AND it's more than half the cost. Would love to see you test it out on the channel. The only place the 6000XP is shy of the Schneider is it's 6KW instead of 6.8KW

Thank you for clarifying. I think the EG4 6000XP is a fantastic value. Certainly for a lot of people working with tight budgets, the EG4 is going to be a better fit. I really do hope to run some good testing on it. I predict that the surge capacity and load imbalance will not be the same between the two. Even if we adjust results as a ratio of rated power to surge power (in order to account for the 0.8kW difference). If Signature Solar wants to send me one of those inverters I'll test the heck out of it.

@@hummmingbear the Schneider can support near the full 6.8kw load on a single leg, while the EG4 6000XP cannot do more than 3000 watts per leg. Hence a good job on a load imbalance

Being cheap is expensive. It just takes longer.

The trouble is "best" means something different to each person. What does it mean to you?

@@DavidPozEnergy I was thinking something along the lines of what ProjectFarm does. You intensely analyze and review a lot of products, if you had an annual overview and gave your opinion of which components you personally would purchase again. I don't think it has to be all encompassing, just an annual "these are my favorites".

That's cool. Thanks for the idea. I like project farm too. I'll work on an outline for that.

I no longer have the SMA inverters.

Yes. Each inverter has a built-in 60A (240V) relay to allow the grid to pass-though. Using this as a UPS is very common.

Yes, they are close. The Growatt isn't connected to anything anymore. It will be coming down soon.

The XW PRO inverters do NOT have solar charge controllers built-in. Schneider makes 3 models of MPPT solar charge controllers that mount separately.

@@DavidPozEnergy thanks for replying, David! Yes - I am aware that we will need to purchase MPPT solar charge controllers separately. I need to size the charge controllers for a (2) 2,000 Amp hour Absolyte batteries - not sure how to configure between the amount of LongI Hi-Mo5 545 watt panels(arrays)/ how many MPPT solar charge controllers to charge the battery bank. When I spoke with Dean he was saying to go with a 20KW generator as back up if necessary. I was hoping to see how you laid out your system with the (2) XW PRO 6848 inverters you set up. Willing to pay you to see it if necessary. Love what you have done over the years!

I'm using the Schneider charge controller that goes up to 100A, 600V. This charge controller can have up to 7.4kW of solar panels attached. You said you are looking to buy 545W panels. 7,400W/545W/p=13.6 panels. Depending on the Voc, and the temperature zone you are in, you might end up with 12 panels total, on 2 strings, or 3 strings. I'm sorry, but as comments get longer and older I'm not going to be able to keep responding.

@@DavidPozEnergy Like I said I am willing to pay to speak with you in email/separate from this channel. Your insight is greatly appreciated.

Sounds like we have very different systems. As I stated in the video, my inverters are off grid. No grid connection. No back-feeding. You said you have a Solaredge inverter. To my knowledge, Solaredge only makes grid tied inverters.

I see now that the 8000w output will barely power the hot tub if 220v so I imagine you would steer me towards dual Schneider or the EG4® 18kPV-12LV All-In-One Hybrid Inverter as likely options. Am I thinking correct?

Inverters: Schneider makes an excellent inverter, but it wouldn't fall into the "deal" category I think you are going for. The all-in-one inverters are a better fit for beginners. They are cheaper up front, and easier to install. EG4 18KPV vs. 6000XP. Both of these are very good options. The 18kPV will work for most people I consult with. The 18kPV is a better choice if you have grid, and are planning to lower your grid consumption. The 6000XP will save you money, but I reserve it to off-grid only applications. If you decide to buy one, please consider using my affiliate link as it really helps out: signaturesolar.com/?ref=4_rHcgZ9x-TiF- discount code: DAVIDPOZ Battery: The Samsung battery you are looking at has 3x 8s modules. meaning, each module has 8 cells in series. These are lithium-ion cells, not LiFePO4. Meaning, they have a higher Voltage than LiFePO4 cells. Both inverters you mentioned are nominal 48V inverters. The EG418kPV goes up to 60V. If you took 2 of the Samsung modules, ran them in series for 16s, then you would have a maximum Voltage of over 66V. That means you won't be able to use all the capacity with the EG4 inverters. For this reason, I don't recommend you use the Samsung modules with the EG4 inverters. If your goal is to DIY your own battery, then check out these: batteryhookup.com/products/4-new-eve-3-2v-280ah-lk280k-lifepo4-prismatic combined with the 300A BMS. Use code DAVIDPOZ I have several videos on my channel showing how to build a battery with BMS that will help you out. Good luck.

@DavidPozEnergy Thanks so much! I think this is really good advice for a novice like myself. My electrician friend says we can be 100% off grid and not feed any energy back while using the proper equipment and additional panel (s?) that would allow gris access, does this sound safe and possible if done properly> I do not want to risk any solar/battery power getting into grid yet staying connected would allow a smaller 30kwh battery system. Does all of that sound doable, what might I be missing? Just to confirm, the batteries you linked would be 8 x $430 = $3440 for 28kwh batteries +/-, correct? $123 per kwh, I am assuming this is a quality "knock off" of a more regarded or other battery, correct? These have a proven track record? I will make sure and use promo so you benefit!

Check out this video: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/iMeiarmIzdemj6M.htmlsi=4cCzHzQEOt5a7wp5 In this video I use some modules from Battery Hookup. The modules have 8x 280Ah cells in each. So I grouped 2 modules in series for 16s. This is essentially what you would be making with the cells I linked to above. You could make as many 48V batteries as you wan to add capacity. Another option is to buy a pre-built battery to save time and get your system up and running faster. However, it costs more money. .Example: signaturesolar.com/eg4-powerpro-ess-14-3-28-6kwh-capacity-eg4-18kpv-eg4-powerpro-wallmount-battery-ul9540/?ref=4_rHcgZ9x-TiF- Personally, I don't run my grid through my inverters. I have a manual transfer switch over by the meter, I can switch my house to run off the grid, or from my off-grid solar system. But, the two don't mix in any way. I don't run the grid through the inverters. In this scenario, buying 2x (or more) EG46000XP would be good because it saves money. However, if you want to run the grid through the inverters, then buy 1 (or 2) of the EG4 18kPV. The 18kPV is built for the grid to pass-through. You can still program it for "zero export" meaning it won't back-feed the grid.

Yeah, I'll have to use that resistive load bank I made in a previous video.

As of right now, the grid is still available if I manually switch back to it.

These inverters do NOT connect directly to PV strings.

@@DavidPozEnergy I was referring to any other inverters like Growatt for example. I chose the wrong video to ask the question, sorry.

For example, my Growatt inverters I used for a couple years... Each inverter had one MPPT controller built in. That one input is connected to one solar array. I had 3 inverters in parallel. This meant I had 3 MPPT chargers total. I also had 3 solar arrays and each array was connected to one MPPT. A single solar array MIGHT have one string, or multiple strings.

@@DavidPozEnergy Excellent! Thanks a lot for your reply, it has helped me to clarify my doubts. All the best.

Yes. They are both top of the line, but I prefer the Schneider slightly. #1 reason, is the programming. The Schneider worked right out of the box making 120/240V without me needing to do anything. The SMA required programming to turn on. Also, the SMA is factory set for flooded lead acid batteries. Since I'm using lithium, the SMAs don't work without closed-loop communication. #2, the wiring. Schneider has the PDP and wire-ways so that the whole setup is UL Listed, and easy to pass inspection. #3, SMA is 120V only, so you need a pair for 120/240V. But, hey, they are both great. If you had an option for a really good price on a pair of SMA it can still be a good bargain. But, be prepared for more difficulties programming.

@@DavidPozEnergy thanks for replying. Those are very valid points. I bought sunny islands after watching your vids and seeing how well they can handle loads but you are right- you need them in pairs and they need expensive bms for lithium batteries. If and when these give out though, I more than likely will go with victron inverters. their ESS system and venus OS are very exciting

You gave me great advice before on the mini split and I bought the same you have. I'm in the semi truck sometimes a couple months at a time but advice about my panel voltage would be greatly appreciated. Thanks man

codes.iccsafe.org/s/ISEP2021P1/national-electrical-code-nec-solar-provisions/ISEP2021P1-NEC-Sec690.7

Depends on your coldest temperature. Where I live, I have to multiply by 1.21. So, if my Voc is 137V, I'd have 165.77V in the cold

@@DavidPozEnergy thanks David. I think you just saved my 150-70 victron from being in a over voltage situation. I wasn't sure if the VOC or the actual loaded voltage would change but I guess either one will smoke the charger. I now know not to turn on my panels when I get home until I rewire some stuff. Thanks again for your help

My dad came over an helped me lift the inverter into place. And, I called my friend Ben at one point for advice.

@@DavidPozEnergy Do you think the Xantrex products are DIY friendly?

They are not the easiest products to install. The inverter will start right up out of the box, give it 48V and it will spit out 120/240V. No programming. I used mine for a few months doing that before I ever hooked up the "Insight Home" for programming. The programming is the annoying part. Schneider has excellent manuals for all the wiring, mounting, etc. But, not fantastic literature on how to program. I felt it was worth the hassle to set the insight home up because it allows parallel inverters, and setting the charge controller Voltage.

Absolutely. It has all those options, I just don't do it on my property.

No, I've been using them for testing batteries lately.

I've never used the AGS from Schneider. I'm working on setting up an auto-gen start, but it's third party.

@@DavidPozEnergy if you could use that for your content and share it would be awesome! It’s the only thing I have left to get right.

I'm setting up a 2-wire start on my MEP-802A that I purchased from Kurt Klopp. You can find his stuff on Ebay.

@@DavidPozEnergy thank !!

Your welcome. I'm not sure if this link will work, but I'm trying to link to his ebay store. www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?item=185539237162&rt=nc&_trksid=p4429486.m3561.l161211&_ssn=kloppk

I think they both have a time and place in different situations. I can't say one is better or worse than the other without knowing the application. First, I've never tested a Victron brand inverter. I love the Victron equipment I have, but it's charge controllers and battery monitors. Second, the Schneider is UL listed for residential applications. So, does your application require a permit?

No, but I'd love to. I don't have enough money to buy inverters just for the purpose of testing. But, if someone was in New England and was willing to let me test theirs, that would be great for a video.

Hi Terry. For sure, you have a great setup. I'm a bit more worried about total efficiency. I live in MA, with long stretches of cloudy weather, and my backyard is very limited to the solar window. I don't have any more space for more solar panels. I think (from your photos) you have a farm with space available for more panels, right? So you can add a few more panels to overcome the efficiency loss?

@DavidPozEnergy Yes I have unlimited space for panels. Every time I can put up a panel that I can park on under it Then I get shade and I get a panel. I'm not as concerned with with the efficiency. I'm concerned that my system doesn't bother me when i'm doing my normal work on tractors. And I hate software problems with a passion.

Yeah, it's certainly something that put me off at first. One of the reasons I like the Schneider is that you only have to make sure the firmware matches. But, you never NEED to update firmware again. And, Schneider doesn't force updates. I've heard from users of other "all-in-one" inverters that sometimes there is forced updates from the web and it causes problems.

Hi disneyjoe7, My house is 100% electric. I built my home 10 or 11 years ago and there is a whole series of videos on my channel detailing it. Hot water is both solar and electric. I built a 250 gallon solar thermal "battery" that pre-heats the incoming water (videos on my channel about this). Then the water goes through a 19 gallon electric resistance tank called a "booster" tank. If the water is not hot enough, then the booster tank brings it up the rest of the way. Yes, I have an electric Dryer. Yes, electric stove. Yes, electric resistance baseboard heat. Although, since I installed the mini-split heat pump I don't use the baseboard as often. How about you?

David, I’m gas for… Heat Gas stove Gas dryer Gas hot water With a 12kw solar system no batteries backup grid powered with micro inverters. 34 panels

I don't understand. There might be a typo in your question.

@@DavidPozEnergy you're right. That should be leaving the growatts.

I still use the Growatt inverters for testing other things. Oh, and I gave one to a friend.

I wanted to try out a top of the line inverter. Growatt is a great value, but had some lower quality power output.

Um.. Peer pressure. :D OK, the real reason, He got tired of me talking about mine. hahahaha

I never checked the battery with my scope. I might get around to it, but it's not high on my priority.

What are you talking about?

@@DavidPozEnergy I thought you had an electric car.

Oh, at one point I was working on a VW that was electric, but never finished the project. There was so much wrong with it that I decided it wasn't worth the money.

I'm on Facebook. You can send me a message there.

It's the Schneider 600V, 100A model.

Will the inverter charge the batteries from the solar panels?

The solar array is wired to the charge controller, not the inverter.

So I need to purchase a Schneider Mppt

I needed a charge controller because I'm using the Schneider platform. I don't know what you have or what you need.

Yes, they are both in phase with each other.