"I never expected that I'd die fighting alongside a Trekkie." - Star Wars Fan "How about a Tolkien fan?" - Star Trek Fan "Aye, that I could do." - SWF

Tolkien helped hold the line at the Somme. We owe him the defense of his creation.

- Defending LotR - Star Wars fan: I can't believe I'm fighting alongside a TREKKIE. Star Trek fan: How about fighting alongside a friend? Star Wars fan: Aye, I can do that.

Whenever Marvel releases a trailer I think 'This is gonna be great!... to hear the Drinker's review of.'

It sucks that we couldn’t save Marvel, DC, Star Wars or even Star Trek but I hope we can all join forces and save Lord Of The Rings.

"Phase 4 feels like we're between shows now, here's a clown dancing" Nailed it.

'They invade our space and we fall back. They assimilate entire worlds and we fall back. NOT AGAIN. The line must be drawn HERE. THIS far, NO FARTHER!' - Captain Picard

Amazon: "We don't understand all the hate for our Rings of Power show. We even showed it to REAL fans of the Lord of the Rings!" Nerdrotic and Company: "Shall we describe it for you? Or should we find you a box?"

With the Drinker's love of Star Trek, I cannot read "The line must be drawn HERE!" in any way other than Picard's voice from First Contact.

Lord of the Rings is THE hill I will die on. I gre up with it and Star Wars, but Lord of the Rings is just... so much more. Hopefully, this is the moment where the fans will collectively come together and say, "You shall not pass!"

A difference between The Lord Of The Rings and the others is that the work exists in its entirety as Tolkien created it - whatever crap Amazon pull out of their arses can't change that, because their manipulative fanfic will never have legitimacy to people who really care about the work.

They can screw up whatever they want with The Lord Of The Rings and all we need do is pick up Tolkien’s books to disappear into his world. Peter Jackson’s trilogy did so well because he gave us visual imagery to match our imagination and Howard Shore’s music was sublime.

"The line must be drawn HERE, this far, NO FURTHER."

I turn 18 next week and in my short life, I’ve watched nearly all of my favourite franchises and characters get absolutely destroyed by wokeness and horrendous writing. I just feel bad for everyone who’s been with those movies and characters for 20+ years and have had to watch their favourite franchises go down in flames. All we want is new, interesting and well written stories, and I don’t know why it’s so difficult to get that these days. Truly depressing!

A great philosopher once said: "YOU SHALL NOT PASS!!"

Apathy is Death. A line from one of the very best Star Wars story every told by one of the best characters Star Wars ever introduced (KOTOR 2, Kreia). You can’t simply let bad things happen and only react when the danger is at your door. Principles and values must be defended and ammunition for attack.

First time someone said what I was thinking. I'm 35, when I was a kid there was a Star Wars matinee for the whole week and my dad took me to see all three originals. I was mesmerized, my room was filled with Star Wars stuff in a matter of months. Now I just don't care. I haven't seen the latest season of Mandalorian, and couldn't be bothered to even see the trailer of Boba Fett. If 25 years someone told me there would be 6 more movies and 2 shows about Bobba Fett and Mandalorian bounty hunter I would probably cry out of sheer joy. Now I just don't care.

The thing that really pisses me off about Star Trek is how they completely destroyed the fan film community. For those who don't know, fan stories and recordings kept Trek alive during the 70's along with reruns. Do you know how hard it normally was for an hour long show to survive in syndication? It would have died like every other show normally did. Then they smacked down the fans.

Meanwhile, I'm working on my LOTR sequel. In it, Eowyn reveals a shocking secret and transitions. This brings the Witch King back to life as he says, "Aha, you were a man all along!"

The only franchise I care about anymore is LOTR. The books have been my happy place since high school. It is the hill to die on.

LOTRs really is the last fandom I care about. We'll always have the books, but we need to hold the line here.

The difference with LOtR is that it is old, the foundation of an entire genre and was well guarded by the family for decades with no input from other writers, so it's Cannon is rock solid has no weird takes etc. The other reason is fandoms at large feel betrayed and only used as a stepping stone rather than the main corner of the market to be pleased. The last reason is that the only major change from the Cannon came from the movies which were as respectful to the source material as you could be while making a coherent watchable film. It's also not so old that it is out of living memory or using dated technology that makes it look like a relic. So because it had long undiluted well respected legacy and pedigree, it will always be different from other franchises that have many writers, animators, or actors. It's properly stubborn franchise with a properly stubborn fan base and it needs to be respected as such.

That opening by Drinker is exactly how I feel about "official" Star Wars. Felt this way ever since TFA came out.

Phase four is pretty much Homer Simpson's make-up shotgun at this point.

I think it's time Drinker starts dipping into Sci Fi and fantasy writing

Us Tolkienites purists are a lucky few in this war that's been raging for years now. I feel we cannot be touched by everything that's happening, we don't even need any sort of gatekeeping. As the Drinker correctly said we are not an universe in expansion like the others. We have the Books and that's the canon, noone can touch It or change It because the one and only Who could, Tolkien, Is sadly gone. They can do every bullsh*t in the book in the upcoming show, but, at the end, they only thing that they'll be able to achieve will be a billion dollar fan-fiction that, as a Tolkien purist, i will have the luxury to simply ignore. Sadly this Is not true for others franchisings and some losts have been appaling.

Part of getting older is seeing everything you loved die. All these franchises. It's like having a great Grandpa, he stayed in shape, showed you how to be a man, took shit from no one, was someone you always looked up to or turned to in your life. Then one day when you are an adult Grandpa has a stroke. You visit him in the hospital, he's old and weak, has tubes keeping him alive. He wears a diaper now and barely recognizes you. That's the state of modern beloved franchises. You gotta remember the good times, but also say good bye.

What’s very telling is the Amazon show supporters act like there isn’t any book lore. The issue with that is Middle Earth is unique in that it’s pop culture fandom pales in comparison to the book fans. LOTR fans prize the books above all else. That’s the standard every adaptation has been held to. So the usual “toxic fan” argument doesn’t apply here. It’s a completely separate entity

Long time ago I remember cutting Star Wars articals out of new papers and keeping them in a scrap book.

What really upsets me about the stories and characters I grew up with being ruined. Is when these franchises finally fail. I, as a fan, will be blamed. It will be my fault for not supporting the assassination of a character that inspired me as a child to aspire to be better. It's my fault. Not the writers, not the producers, not the think tanks who play the numbers for profit. Nope, my fault.

P: Is there any hope? For Lord of the Rings? G: There never was much hope Just a fool's hope. Our enemy is ready. His full strength's gathered. Not only Wokes, but Trans as well. Legions of Bluehairs from the Northwest, Antifa Mercenaries from the coast, Corsairs of Starbucks. All will answer Amazon's call. This will be the end of the Lord of the Rings as we know it. Here the hammer stroke will fall hardest. If the streaming series is taken, if the garrison of Fandom falls, the last defence of this city will be gone. P: But we have fans of the books. That's got to count for something? G: Bezos has yet to reveal his deadliest servant the one who will lead Amazon's armies in war. The one they say no living man can kill. The Bitch-Queen of Angmar. You've met Zer before. Zer stabbed Star Wars on Disneytop. Zer is the lord of Big Tech, the greatest of the Nine. Silicon Valley is zer lair.

Lefty: Never thought I’d die side by side with a republican. Righty: How about sude by side with a reader of Tolkien? Lefty: Aye, I can do that.

I have reached the point of apathy with Star wars, Dr. Who, and Star Trek. I havent watched anything from Marvel since Infinity War, in theaters OR on Disney+. Havent bought comics from either of the Big 2 in almost 4 years. We need to stop supporting this trash and let them all fail. Then maybe something better can get a chance to shine.

I’m binge watching the extended editions for the hundredth time right now, actually. What they did to Star Wars broke my heart, but if they did that to lord of the rings too, I’d be well and truly destroyed. This really is a hill I’m willing to die on. These movies are cultural icons.

It’s like the Omni-Man line to the Flaxans: “You don’t seem to understand. Lord of the Rings is not yours to destroy.”

Even as the ship sinks it maintains forward momentum until it hits bottom.

Queue the SpongeBob meme, "HOW MANY TIMES DO WE HAVE TO TEACH YOU THIS LESSON OLDMAN!" They are gonna do what they are gonna do, they legitimately don't care about reception, or money. They care about the messaging and the ends always justify the means. If loosing millions on LOTR means they get to trot out gay Sauramon, then it was well worth it.

Disney didn't "lose" those fans, they *threw them out*. They are *intentionally* trying to disenfranchise all the parts of the fanbase they don't want (namely, those who don't subscribe to their political/social ideology). This isn't about money, this is about the mindspace of the viewers, and they're clearly willing to lose money to push those views.

I'm proud of the Tolkien Army. For once a fandom stands undivided. We couldn't save Marvel and Woke Wars because of the herd mentality and no one watches (new) Doctor Woke and Cry Trek anymore but we can save the legacy of Tolkien. None shall pass.

"Stand, Men of the West!"

I also agree that Lord of the Rings being being the “this far and farther” line is appropriate. Star Trek was my first fandom, but Lord of the Rings might be the one I value most. Lord of the Rings isn’t just a great book and a great movie trilogy. It’s a work of fiction but everything it says is true. It’s more than the sum of its parts. In a real sense it’s a mythological retelling of that which defines western civilization. It’s far more of a symbol than people realize. And that’s why it won’t be destroyed by woke stupidity.

I miss loving Star Wars.....

I would have preferred the line having been drawn before The Wheel of Time, Star Wars, Star Trek, the MCU, etc. Basically, anyone is free to make their own hypocritical, political fanaticism pandering, narcissistic trash as they see fit, but they aren't permitted to ruin someone else's work and dump it on me, and certainly not have me pay for the privilege.

The history of where the Lord of the rings comes from is as important as the book itself

I feel this intros sentiment with marvel, star wars and LOTR Never thought I'd see the day

I love The Critical Drinker

I've said the same thing under a few different videos now but I have met people who love the newest Dr. Strange. They think Wanda is 'savage' and fantastic. I know long time Star Wars fans who loved TLJ and ROS and think we are all crazy. Same goes for most of the big franchises covered by Drinker, Mauler and Efap in general. Shad loved the Mandalorian. He argued for plot-based super strength. What else can I say? Eventually his mind was changed but the bombastic illusion of high budget fiction works long enough to get dollars out of us. I think one reason we have so much subpar fiction is that we have too much time and money to spend on fiction. Until a determining majority of people learn to say no producers are going to keep feeding us whatever they've boiled up. Unfortunately a lot of those people who have to say no are Chinese. If they were to say no to our water-toast crap all they'd be left with is their own water-toast crap. The most avant-garde thing they can do considering their options is to consume our crap. So it's up to us. We can either wait for things to change or try to convince our friends, countrymen and boomer parents to change. There is a third option. We can make our own art, trade it amongst ourselves and live on as a strong plurality. That's what I try to do.

There has been so little since 2015 that has been genuinely amazing. The few things I can think of are Joker and smaller films like The Father. It’s all become quick hits of dopamine before waiting for that next fix. Even anime is effected with people being more excited for seasonal shows than things that are actually good. But I think sooner or later, something will come out that’s so horrific or does the wrong thing, and this balancing act that Hollywood are doing will collapse. Az made a good point when he said that Luke in the D+ shows seems to be heading towards the sequels in terms of his character. I think that’ll turn people off from that like the Power Rangers bikes did.

I love seeing this as a war where the nations of Star Wars, Marvel, Star Trek... have fallen and us surviving fighters have gone to help The Lord Of The Rings nation protect what we lost.

Nerdrotic is on point and I’ve been saying it for a while - the current flops and bombs were in the planning for the last two or three years, and we still have a fair share of failures to go before we start moving out of this rut.

Can't believe they said "This far and no further" and not "YOU SHALL NOT PASS!" Missed opportunity there.

Yes. Apathy. That's exactly where I'm at with these franchises. I used to LOVE Star Wars. I would buy toys, video games, I would read books. Now? I don't even care anymore. 10 Years ago I would have been super excited for the Obi Wan show. Now? I probably won't even watch it.

Been waiting for more lord of the rings content. Nothing since hobbit and no games in a long while. But I don't want a fan fiction filed with politics playing at being lord of the rings.

This is the hill we chose to die on. In other words, “you, shall not, pass!”

Was waiting for Drinker to say “you shall not pass” when they were discussing that this is the hill we’ll die on

I really enjoyed Reacher, and the 4d chess move playing out in my head is that Lord of the Rings *fails so hard* that Amazon execs refuse to let future seasons of Reacher be wokeified since it'll one of their few golden geese left.

Before watching this just wanted to say: that’s one badass thumbnail

LOTR never died, it gets a re-watch every few years, and 4K is just epic :)

Agreed with the headline. How many times does a fandom need to be told "consoom product" before they eventually snap and say "f*ck you, the original is already f*cking legendary"?

The MCU told an amazing, epic, and, most importantly, finished story with their first however many movies until Endgame. Then, the story ended, most of the plot threads were tied up, most of the character arcs were completed, and most of the themes were very well explored. There's been nothing good since then; they've run out of creative steam, the gold has been mined, and they're just panning for specks of dust at this point. Let it go, you told a great story, it lasted well over a decade and made billions upon billions of dollars. Call it a win and move on, tell another story, come back to this universe when you have a new story to tell and a new generation to tell it to.

I watched the Lord of the Rings recently for the first time in good few years. I've read the book countless times, and I pretty much know the films scene by scene. At the end, I was on the edge of my seat...absolutely gripped despite knowing exactly what was going to happen. That is how to make a film. No-one seems capable of that now, I guess for all the reasons you all cover in your videos.

I think one thing that separates Lotr from all the other universes is, that it has always been "artsy" to a certain degree, unlike others tried to simply be entertaining with more or less effort being put into the writing, the dialogue, the worldbuilding and the characters. The difference between "real" Lotr and the amazon shit will be pretty easy to spot.

One does not simply… reboot Mordor.

LOTR must stand because it's the best. My favorite is and always has been Star Wars, but as much as I love Star Wars, it's simply not as good as LOTR as a story from an objective point of view. Also, I'm about as hardcore of a Star Wars fan as you can find. I've read most the books (probably about 70% of pre disney books), played most of the games (I played SWG for 7 years and SWTOR for 3-4 years, I've 100% Kotor 1 over 30 times and Kotor 2 over 40, I have hundreds of hours in BF 1&2, I've beaten every Dark Forces/Jedi Knight game except for the very first one, and I've played/beaten many more still), and I have nearly photographic memory of all 6 original Star Wars movies. I know lore that most lore buffs don't even know. I haven't even been bothered to watch the Kenobi trailer. I wpuld love to see Ewan McGregor and Hayden Christiansen back, but I have absolutely no faith in Disney to handle them right. Vader and Obi-wan are two of the only characters Disney haven't desecrated yet, and I'm not going to watch that happen.

The four horsemen! Awesome lineup. FOR FRODO!

This just screams we need a revolution in arts , in popular culture and anything we call civilization .. apathy is what lead the downfall of imagination that created a history of meaning. The line best be drawn and then the line be redrawn.

A very important point was touched in this discussion: Lord of the Rings is not "going forward with the story", it's not changing, it's not "bringing new exciting adventures", it's in the final and complete form for 70+ years already. And still people love it, read it over and over, roleplay it, are excited about it, and treasure it above so many other things. So, that "change is necessary or you'll get bored with the franchise" is just a BS excuse of corporations and their lapdogs writers and media sellouts, because re-using old heroes in new situations or retconning them into somethings else - is what THEY need to justify selling more stuff, exploit and drain ideas and IPs for money. But it's definitely not what we, the fans, need.

Re Trek fans being old: My brother and I were of the "Star Wars" generation, growing up in the 80s, and we also enjoyed reruns of ST TOS. He's now introducing his daughter to things he liked as a kid, and he made her a Star Wars fan through the Mandalorian (specifically, Baby Yoda, lol) and then showed her the originals. I just realized he hasn't showed her Star Trek, and it could be because the modern stuff, besides being poor quality, is not fit for young kids. It's strange they wouldn't try to get the new generation on board. Especially in light of Kurtzman talking about how he thought it was important to appeal to young kids- I mean, does he ever make any sense?

Lord of the rings is like 12 hours of movie, but it doesn’t feel like it. I recently watched it with my friend who ever seen it. It was just amazing he was invested from start to finish.

Makes me thankful that Stargate ended when it did. It hasn't been violated.

Please guys, do not give up! Keep fighting!

Disney saved me a hell of a lot of money when they released TLJ!

The Peter Jackson films are still the best. 💯💯

It's going to take a while to get the crap projects and creators through the pipeline. This is where advertising on streaming might actually help. They'll have to report accurate viewing numbers to the sponsors and they'll only want to pay for what suits them. With Twitter on the verge of being revealed for the fraud that it is, the tiny loud minority there will be ignored once again.

With most of them, you know the content of the story before you've seen it, nowadays. There's going to be a female protagonist, or the story will be centered on the female sidekick. She's going to be flawless in everything she does, there's going to be a lot of crying and hugging, and then she wins. Repeat ad lib for two seasons, tops, and then it dies, only to be replaced by the next show from the same recipy. What a fucking waste of time it all has become now...

Lol Drinker going full Gandalf. Love it

I was all in for the Hobbit trilogy when it came out, but soon afterwards I began analyzing stories, and I found I didn’t like the films that much. However, they didn’t make me hate LOTR though. I began with the books, and I’m very familiar with the source material. The movies have their flaws, but you wouldn’t likely notice them if you didn’t begin with reading the books!

I think I agree with Gary. We did lose, as the fans continued to give them all money for it to be bad, we only have each other to blame. Maybe we can finally turn things around with LotR.

omg the "OHhh bright colors!" part almost chocked me. Lol

Best Marvel thing I've seen in a while? The animated "Hit Monkey"! Decent animation and voice acting, pretty funny, and super violent. Great stuff.

We come, we come with roll of drum: ta-runda runda runda rom! We come, we come with horn and drum: ta-runa runa runa rom! To Isengard! Though Isengard be ringed and barred with doors of stone; Though Isengard be strong and hard, as cold as stone and bare as bone, We go, we go, we go to war, to hew the stone and break the door; For bole and bough are burning now, the furnace roars - we go to war! To land of gloom with tramp of doom, with roll of drum, we come, we come; To Isengard with doom we come! With doom we come, with doom we come!

- Tolkien fandom stands alone. - Not alone. Fandoms! - To the king!

Awesome! Having all of you come together. Nice!

There’s some good in this world. And it’s worth fighting for.

5:30 "Apathy is death!"

I checked out of Star Trek, Star Wars, and Dr. Who. ST in particular was such a huge part of my life, watching re-runs in the early 1970s and then being thrilled when STTNG, DS9, Voyager, and Enterprise was out. Such riches! I will be SO MAD if LOTR is vandalized. I'll reserve judgment, but it does not look good so far.

Between The Critical Drinker and Pitch Meeting, I've saved a fortune on theater tickets and subscriptions.

I miss Mauler's unbridled rages but I also understand why he's so mentally checked out. It's a sentiment I share.

Men of Gondor! Stop assuming our gender!

At this point you can make a show of all great franchises falling under the yoke of WOKENESS , and the last nerds banding together to save the foundation of Lord of the Rings so the next generations aren't boned for decent story telling . I'd binge the fuck out of it .

After bingeing most of your vids in about a week, I came to genuinely respect your passion for storytelling and knowledge of how it should be done. I agree with your emphasis on well-written, believable characters that you can enjoy going on a journey with. And the deepest, most fundamental aspects of your criticism have inspired me to finally do something. Something I knew I wasn’t ready for when I first imagined it. For the last 20 years, I have written roughly 1 million words for friends and family, with the simple purpose of earning adequate skill at storytelling. I honed my writing, and even ultimately benefited from deep, painful personal struggles, so that I could finally tell a specific short story. It complements and builds up one of your favorite films. And, incidentally, it also showcases many examples of genuine masculinity displayed in a variety of ways. Further, I feel it sets a very high bar for what respectful, quality “fanfiction” should strive to be. Upholding a beloved work. Understanding it, valuing it, and forgiving any supposed flaws. Contributing a modest addition to someone else’s great legacy. Underscoring and deepening the arc of an already beloved character. Teaching the same positive lessons with the same noble themes, in a slightly different way. Honoring the work, the creator of that work, and all those who have come to love it for what it is. I strove to keep it focused, purposeful, limiting it to just 22,000 words. It may not be perfect, but it certainly tries to be. I hope you will consider giving it a read. Based on what you’ve shown everyone of your true self (behind your hilarious outward persona), I believe you will approve of these efforts. You may be uplifted and proud for having put forth the time to read it. And you will then enjoy going back to watch your favorite trilogy yet again, perhaps getting even more out of the experience. The tale is humbly posted, amidst countless others, on fanfiction.net, under the title “The Children of Rohan,” by WillDreamer.

That point about "Epic stories" is actually great, I had never thought about that. When you look to stuff like Lord of the Rings, The Dark Knight trilogy, the Infinity Saga, Avatar The Last Airbender (I don't know if you guys have seen, but you should, it's brilliant), they all stand the test of time and remain in our hearts because they had a clear story with a great ending

I don’t think a lot of people is going to watch the LoTR spin off.

I haven't watched a Marvel movie since Avengers: Endgame. That movie wrapped it all up and put a bow on it. Next thing please. I haven't watched any Star Wars since Return Of The Jedi. They've puked all over Star Trek. I look for new experiences in my films.

LotR fandom: “Never thought I’d be dying side by side with these fandoms” Stat Wars, Star Trek, Marvel and DC fans: “How about dying side by side with a friend”

We used to have every streaming service, I used to budget movie tickets, and I used to be able to list off the best places to be a pirate. I haven’t watched a movie in theaters since 2017, (Dunkirk) I kinda forgot about when my streaming services were due so those are gone now, and most of the things I want to watch I own a physical copy of now. I am entirely apathetic to the entertainment industry right now. I’m honestly more excited to play a video game that came out 3 years ago for the first time (DMC5) then I am for the prospect of a new Lord of the Rings anything.

Babylon 5 has it's fair share of Tolkien references, a true fan of both will see them.

Lord of the Rings is one of the few perfect literary works.

Surrounded by 4000 marvel comics s I've bought off drug store spinner racks since 1972, I'm ready to wash my hands of the mcu. It reminded me of when Andy speaks of solitary in the Shawshank redemption, how he replays the music in his head. I'll fondly remember Kirby, Ditko and Perez , without participating in the train wreck to come.

I’ve checked out of all of these too and move onto others things. The only fandoms I’m happy to be apart of right now are Dune, One Punch Man, and Berserk.