DT-Swiss 180 v 240 v 350 FULL BREAKDOWN & WEIGHTS
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Күн бұрынWe got heaps of traction from our previous Dt-Swiss video so we made more! Check out this full breakdown of the weights of DT hubs. www.wheelworks.co.nz/dt-swiss...
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#Dtswiss #dt #240exp #180exp #180 #240 #350
@wsbygt 9 ай бұрын
I´ve seen this review so many times when I´m searching parts for my 180EXP... Great content, thank you!
@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels 9 ай бұрын
Glad to help!
@bmx08 2 жыл бұрын
Great vídeo. Congrats. Thanks
@overjoony796 2 жыл бұрын
love videos like this that go into every detail and right into it no bs ad's
@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks mate :-)
@marianoruiz9039 3 жыл бұрын
Neat review, thanks for the effort 💪
@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the feedback Mariano! -Tristan
@TeamCykelhold 2 жыл бұрын
very nice rundown!
@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels 2 жыл бұрын
Glad you enjoyed it thanks Gustav -Tristan
@lordunitaz Жыл бұрын
Great video! Thanks. You answered all my questions. I'll stick with 350 hubs. Too little difference in weight unless you are a 1-class rider.
@vlbz 5 ай бұрын
Great video. First time I'm hearing about the difference in bearing sizes. Overall glad I went with the 350.
@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels 4 ай бұрын
Glad I could help
@user-xz8lb6ez8j Жыл бұрын
Dude! You safe my many a lot! 👍
@edsinofsky Жыл бұрын
excellent thanks
@COOLBIKEyt 2 жыл бұрын
great vid
@mtbboy1993 3 жыл бұрын
Nice comparison. I will have wheels with 350 on the way, but I have hope pro4 now, will see how they compare.
@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels 3 жыл бұрын
Both are great hubs!
@Cielzerozx004 2 жыл бұрын
That 1 gram weight saving on those ceramic bearings on the drive side really got me lauging😅
@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels 2 жыл бұрын
Marginal gains :-) -Tristan
@duczmal 2 жыл бұрын
Perfect, do this with new 350,240 and 180 straightpull versions with 28Holes, centerlock boost versions 110/148
@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels 2 жыл бұрын
We've just landed the 2022 model of the 350 so have a full deepdive on that now: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/g6iCprCcscmpeWw.html
@JoseGonzalez-su2sy 7 ай бұрын
nice video! could you do one about the differences in the front hubs?
@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels 7 ай бұрын
We tend to gloss over the front hubs as they don't tend to be significantly different.... We've got another could of DT Swiss deep dives coming up though so will spend more time on the fronts
@chiefrocker12 2 жыл бұрын
Excellent review. I have the DTSwiss 240 EXP and recently experienced an issue with the internal ratchet disengaging mid ride. DT Swiss are aware of this issue and apparently a batch was manufactured using ratchet that undergoes higher wear. While they will warrant this, are you able to post the EXP ratchet removal tool needed? I am looking to do all future servicing and was not sure of that tool. I understand this is different to the 350 model. Thanks
@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels 2 жыл бұрын
This is the tool you need for the EXP hubs: www.wheelworks.co.nz/shop-2/tool/hxtxxx00n8387s-dt-swiss-tool-dt-disassembly-tool-for-exp-star-ratchet-w20x1-hxtxxx00n8387s/
@RB-xv4si Жыл бұрын
Cool comparison. Seems like a legitimate weight saving going from the 350s to 240s. But those last few grams saved going from 240s to 180s seem like they were achieved mostly by doing things that will undoubtedly sacrifice service life and longevity. Also, hybrid ceramic bearings are terrible in practice because all the bumps you hit during your rides will cause the ultra-hard ceramic balls to make micro-indentations on the inner surfaces of the not-as-hard steel races and this will create more roughness and resistance over time, no matter how well you maintain them. Just a terrible idea, really.
@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels Жыл бұрын
Yeah our experience with ceramic and ceramic hybrid bearings echos this - they feel amazing when brand-new but quickly start to feel chunky even if they continue to spin. This tends to happen quite quickly on a mountain bike hub but take a lot longer (obviously) on a road bike -Tristan
@RB-xv4si Жыл бұрын
@@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels yep. Exactly my experience with CeramicSpeed bearings in my hubs, which are some of the most highly-regarded bearings in the industry. Though I do wonder why any of them are highly regarded. They feel amazing when new but truth be told, this is mostly from other tricks, like substituting oil for grease and using non-contact seals (which will even further reduce longevity). Why do companies continue with this bad idea when they and the consumer know that it’s a bad idea?
@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels Жыл бұрын
@@RB-xv4si Well at the risk of getting on my high-horse these is where marketing overpowers actual experience. -Tristan
@danhart2411 2 жыл бұрын
Very informative just curious why you didn't do all 3 straight pull hubs be a better comparison. Versus one straight pull and 2 j bend hubs . The j bends have more material.
@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels 2 жыл бұрын
Great question Dan and you're correct that the straight-pull versions of the 350 and 240 would have been a better comparison, or of course if my prayers were answered and we had a J-bend version of the 180! We tend to use J-bend hubs wherever they're available as they build into a stiffer and generally more durable wheelset than straight-pull do. We've got a video on this topic coming so make sure you subscribe -Tristan
@Vodafone16v Жыл бұрын
Would love to see a comparison between their new (recent?) Hybrid hubs vs the OG ones. I am a firm believer that the DT Swiss ratchet system is the most solid/abuse-proof system for high torque applications (like those exerted by full power (85+ Nm) eMTBs), in comparison to pawl-based hubs. Before the Hybrid hubs existed, I just replaced the ratchets (gears) for the steel ones. But aside from a steel freehub body and ratchets... are there any more differences? Are they just another "eBike specific" gimmick? Cheers mate.
@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels Жыл бұрын
The Hybrid hubs are actually quite different: The flanges are thicker, the spoke angle looks different, the internal threaded ratchet is a different size, and the freehub is different. They are certainly not the same as the "regular" hubs and as you say it's refreshing to see this rather than "ebike specific" gimmicks. -Tristan
@kidsafe Жыл бұрын
I thought front hubs tended to have larger bearings since 15mm TA exists and it simplifies the product line.
@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels Жыл бұрын
It can be really mixed....many brands use 15x28x7mm bearings in their front hubs. Some like DT Swiss use 17mm in some hubs, and Hope uses 20mm bearings. -Tristan
@davidmaco1 2 жыл бұрын
amazing review, you shop to the usa
@tristanthomas9293 2 жыл бұрын
We sure do Dave! Check our www.wheelworks.co.nz/ and drop us a note if we can help with a new build! -Tristan
@caseymaier5611 Жыл бұрын
The 180 hubs come on the carbon all mountain rims. Should I be concerned about the hub strength or durability due to its low weight and smaller bearings.
@catg9196 2 жыл бұрын
I’ve also heard J bend spokes weak link is the bend compared to straight pull. Got 240 straight pull bladed spokes and 350 straight pull round spokes on my bikes
@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels 2 жыл бұрын
This is a bit of a fallacy - when correctly built J-bend spokes are stiffer and as durable (or more durable) than straight-pull. Straight-pull has one significant advantage: they're MUCH faster to build a wheel with and in a production environment that's money saved. We've got a J-bend vs straight-pull video scheduled so we'll explain all of this in the future - stay tuned. -Tristan
@catg9196 2 жыл бұрын
Supposed to be lighter too.
@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels 2 жыл бұрын
@@catg9196 Again - it depends. Generally the straight-pull hubs will be lighter though. -Tristan
@akbast 2 жыл бұрын
@@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels How can J-bend spokes be stiffer than straight-pull? Metallurgically I don't see how that's possible other than the fact that straight-pull are usually longer since there are no hub flanges. Any bend will always have more flex than straight metal.
@lordunitaz Жыл бұрын
@@akbast With j-shaped needles, you can create more crosses if necessary.
@JBGreen-ux5pm 2 жыл бұрын
Do you have any concerns about the reduced bearing size in the 180 versus the 240? In an internet forum I read a post where the poster felt like the bearings were so small in the 180 that it might lead to durability issues. I take everything that I read online with a big grain of salt, but I did feel like that was an interesting thought regarding the 180. What are your thoughts on durability with the reduced bearing size in the 180?
@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels 2 жыл бұрын
Hey JB. I'm not sure the smaller bearing will have a big impact on their longevity, especially as the non-driveside bearing (the one which is substantially smaller) is the lowest-loaded bearing and the one which tends to last the longest. What we find is that ceramic bearings, from all companies including DT Swiss, tend to feel pretty gritty pretty fast. This might be a 'feature' and they don't seem to get excessive friction, but your axle won't feel smooth when you turn it by hand. They don't seem to develop any play.
@MrRamdharry 3 жыл бұрын
Now that we’re into June 2021, I was wondering if you guys know of any big differences with the newer model/revamped 350 besides 36tooth upgrade?
@tristanthomas9293 3 жыл бұрын
We haven't seen the 2021 hubs with our own eyes yet and it's still pretty unclear when we will. DT Swiss are struggling with supply of most of their products so I'm not holding my breathe to be honest! The official DT Swiss website has some tech info on the new 350 versions, and as you say they have the 36t ratchet (which is long overdue to be honest) but until we get them in real life I can't really comment more -Tristan
@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels 2 жыл бұрын
Hi Sam - here is a full look at the 2022 350 hubs. They're actually a lot more like the old 240 than the old 350. -Tristan kzfaq.info/get/bejne/g6iCprCcscmpeWw.html
@ghitsta 3 ай бұрын
Great video thanks! one question: Would it be possible to replace the hybrid ceramic bearings in the 180 with standard steel bearings if you wanted to? or are these non-standard bearing sizes? so not possible to find steel replacements? thanks!
@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels 3 ай бұрын
Yes, absolutely. The bearing sizes used (15x24x5 and 15x26x7mm) are easy to get from either DT Swiss or other bearing makers in a high quality steel version ~Tristan
@westhoefer 3 жыл бұрын
hi, I have gotten the newly built wheel set with 240 EXP hubs. The rear hub came already converted with the 54T ratchet. When the rear wheel is installed with 10 nm , the free hub does not work at all. It is like a fixed gear bike. When I loosen the axle , the free hub does work. I did check the internals, everything is where it should be. Any clue? Not received an answer from the wheel set-builder yet.
@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels 3 жыл бұрын
It's likely one of two things: (1) the red spacer is missing from between the freehub body and hub shell or (2) the fixed ratchet ring wasn't tightened enough into the hub. (1) is an easy fix and (2) might sort itself out if you use your drivetrain to tighten the fixed ring but would ideally need the correct tool to tighten the ring. -Tristan
@westhoefer 3 жыл бұрын
@@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels Thank you very much for the info.
@KristjanKoppel123 2 ай бұрын
Hey Wheelworks! Does the hubs have some kind of rider weight limit also? Let's say i'm 85kg rider - what would be best for me?
@user-dy4pk4mq4v Жыл бұрын
Is 240 exp system compatible with 350? And what is the bearing size of the 350 hub?
@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels Жыл бұрын
Bearing sizes are listed in the video and in the link in the description (www.wheelworks.co.nz/dt-swiss-hub-comparison-deep-dive/) The EXP freehub bodies can be used on a non-EXP hub (and visa versa) by removing or installing the HCDXXX00S0978S ring -Tristan
@rahlpfernandez3958 2 жыл бұрын
What is your opinion on CL rotor attachment play? When the disc rotor is locked in place by the brake, you can turn the hub by approx 1°. Dt swiss say's its normal but its just seems poor manufacturing for such expensive hub.
@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels 2 жыл бұрын
It's rare that we see any rotor play. Often what people think is rotor play is actually the brakepads moving inside the brake calliper. However, once the lockring it tightened there shouldn't be any play in real-life because you're only braking in one direction and not reversing the load on the brake. A large amount of play would indicate something isn't right, however generally there is no problem with a small amount of play. -TT
@rahlpfernandez3958 2 жыл бұрын
@@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels thanks, its not only for dt swiss even shimano xtr and I9 have this issues when I checked online forums.
@trentvlak 8 ай бұрын
Dude, it's totally normal and isn't a factor when riding. How often do you ever come to a stop and rock back and forth on your bike? It's a non-issue.
@joetsang8182 Жыл бұрын
Is it worth from 350 change to 180 ？
@darkcrystal999 Жыл бұрын
Hey guys, can anyone help me out? Is the older 350 still worth buying or should I go with the newer one?
@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels Жыл бұрын
The old 350 is still a great hub....the newer one is lighter and the mountain bike version is faster to engage. If you don't need those features then nothing wrong with getting the old version. -Tristan
@thiagodeconto 2 жыл бұрын
Have you experienced the red painting coming off from 240s exp hubs?
@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels 2 жыл бұрын
No we haven't seen that. Have you?
@thiagodeconto 2 жыл бұрын
@@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels Yes, just one little part. Them I started to take all off with a soft plastic. To be honest, glad that I took the red off. I didn't match the color scheme of my bike.
@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels 2 жыл бұрын
@@thiagodeconto Interesting! I'll keep my eyes out for this thanks
@thecappy Жыл бұрын
If I wanted to swap bearings from the 180 to the non ceramic 6802 would the dt Swiss front 6802 bearing work?
@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels Жыл бұрын
Any bearing quality / material of the same size will work -Tristan
@petersouthernboy6327 5 ай бұрын
Genuine NTN LLB.
@maikszczerbuk613 Жыл бұрын
Say, what is the actual difference between the new dt swiss 370 and the 350?
@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels Жыл бұрын
We'll try and do a Ratchet LN comparison to the "Classic" star ratchet video so stay tuned -TT
@jcmc8235 3 жыл бұрын
I currently ride DT Swiss 370 on STANS ... Any advise on upgrading?
@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels 3 жыл бұрын
Other than a better hub and a better rim? 🙈 The 370 can be upgraded now with the LN freehub body - this basically makes it a 350 with the star ratchet system. It's a reasonably expensive job especially as you'll need two special tools, but gives you a much better hub. If you're in NZ we have XD upgrades in stock, all others are due later in the year. -Tristan
@jcmc8235 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you.
@thedownunderverse 3 жыл бұрын
"Big believer in J-Bend spokes... can build a better wheel than you can with J-Bend"...... so now I'm confused. Which are better: J-Bend or Straightpull?
@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels 3 жыл бұрын
This topic probably deserves it's own video! J-bend hubs are better in every way and allow you to build a better wheelset if (and it's a big IF) you take the time and care but they're very labour intensive. If you're planning on building a lot of the same wheel then straight-pull hubs/spokes reduce the lacing and tensioning time considerably and therefore have a massive cost saving. This is the only reason that straight-pull has come about and why it remains - everything else they tell you is either marketing fluff or a straight up lie. -Tristan
@45graham45 3 жыл бұрын
@@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels but you said you "can build a better wheel than you can with j-bend" which is why it makes no sense.
@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels 3 жыл бұрын
@@45graham45 I think I stumbled over my tongue. We can build better wheels with J-bend spokes than we can with straight-pull.
@45graham45 3 жыл бұрын
you didn't mention the main differences in the end caps. The 350 has no seals whereas the 180 & 240 have o ring seals in. Edit: I've just been told 350 hubs do in fact have o rings in the end caps - mine are 2016 so maybe they have changed since then.
@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels 3 жыл бұрын
I can't recall the 350 ever NOT having o-rings and I just took a look at a few of our hubs and they've all got them. Are you sure your orings didn't fall out? They can do that after the endcaps are removed a few times -Tristan
@45graham45 3 жыл бұрын
@@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels Here's my 350 hub end cap: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/Y9RzZ6Zjp7eoYpc.html . No o ring or anywhere an o ring to be. This was my front wheel end cap. My rear 350 does have o rings. So it seems that the 240s have o rings in both wheels end caps where as the 350 is only in the rear (for 15mm front / 12mm rear at least.)
@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels 3 жыл бұрын
@@45graham45 I understand now. Yes, the front hubs all use totally different systems of securing the endcaps. Many people don't ask questions about the front hubs so we didn't do a deep-dive on these but maybe we should? The 350 has the axle sit directly on the bearings so there is no space for o-rings. The 240 uses a different system where the axle goes all the way through the bearings and does have them. If you convert your hub to a 12mm through axle (for a road bike) then it will have o-rings on the endcaps :-)
@doubik2 2 жыл бұрын
@4:59, you say, "at wheelworks, we are big believers in J-bend spokes. We can build a stiffer more durable wheel than we can with J-bend." huh? given your comment about the 180s, I assume you mean you like j-bends better than straight pull, but I think there was a miscommunication.
@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels 2 жыл бұрын
Sorry if we've confused you! Yes we like J-Bend better but the 180 are only available in straight pull so we make-do on that hubset -Tristan
@baralidasan1487 2 жыл бұрын
Dt swiss 350 axle made of 7000 series alloy?
@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels 2 жыл бұрын
I don't know - I've never seen a published material :-( They're very strong though and are the only aluminium 15mm axle which I can't recall seeing break. -Tristan
@DominikLoeffler1 Жыл бұрын
What about the front wheel hubs?
@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels Жыл бұрын
We focused on the rear hubs in this video because the front hub differences are less, however it's the same story with the more expensive hubs getting lighter and the 180 having ceramic bearings. -Tristan
@DominikLoeffler1 Жыл бұрын
@@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels cool. What bearings are used? Are they all the same dimensions or different as on the rear?
@sventice 2 жыл бұрын
The weight difference between 350 and 180 rear hubs is about 63 grams (2.25 ounces). That seems pretty trivial; you could probably make up that difference by drinking drip coffee instead of lattes for a few days. None of these hubs are cheap, but is there a significant performance difference between them? In other words, if you pay 3x more for 180 vs. 350, do you get significantly less friction and much quicker engagement?
@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels 2 жыл бұрын
Hi Sventice - you might find this video interesting as it compares the three hubs and should answer your questions: -Tristan kzfaq.info/get/bejne/ldmfn7al1560nok.html
@Max__apex 2 жыл бұрын
They copied MAVIC id360 with the single spring !! What do u think ?? :)
@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels 2 жыл бұрын
Actually the first generation Hugi hubs, from before when DT Swiss purchased them, in 1998-ish used a single spring....so you could argue they copied themselves ;-) -Tristan
@tymonmaciejak8226 Жыл бұрын
J bend are better then j bend? J bend for the win!
@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels Жыл бұрын
J bend for everyone! -TT
@esshoul 7 ай бұрын
why you skipped 370s?
@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels 7 ай бұрын
its not available to buy* as an "aftermarket" hub and only comes fitted on new bikes so we left it out of this video. Now that DT Swiss are transitioning from the 3-pawl to the Ratchet LN system it's become even more confusing though! *You do see the hubs available to buy sometimes but these are grey-market hubs which were destined for use on brand-new bikes but somehow ended up being sold aftermarket -Tristan
@esshoul 7 ай бұрын
@@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels thanks! I got several on pre-owned wheelsets and didnt notice that they are oem only
@trentvlak 8 ай бұрын
Tune hubs require "faffing around"? They're just a pawl hub. Build up just like any hub. I have two years on a climbhill/killhill set with no problems. It's a really good video; but why do you say silly stuff like this?
@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels 8 ай бұрын
Our experience building and selling these over a number of years is quite different to yours. Glad to hear you haven't experienced any issues with your pair! -Tristan
@trentvlak 8 ай бұрын
@@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels what faffing around is going on here?
@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels 8 ай бұрын
@@trentvlakmost of the problems are around a creaking drive mechanism related to the XOT bearing used. The threaded endcaps which rely on o-rings to not rotate don't help but overall we found them to have extremely poor tolerances which leads to two "identical" hubs having parts which won't interchange -TT
@trentvlak 8 ай бұрын
@@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels oh, I see. My versions of the hubs don't have xot bearings or threaded end caps. They must have redesigned.
@rosomak8244 Жыл бұрын
It is not $2000 worth of hubs. It is $1800 blown in the wind for nothing at all. Well one thing: laude annoying noise when riding.
@petersouthernboy6327 5 ай бұрын
Nice take, Wal-Mart shopper
@grzZzesiek 10 ай бұрын
Any differences in sound and loudness between Ratchet and Ratchet Exp? I got Dicuts 240 with 36t Ratchet and this is very quiet but sounds pretty good.
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