Let me tell you, Frank Herbert was not very versed in combat.

Warfare had become stagnant. Blades and knives had worked well for those millennia, Hunter seekers could penetrate shields, as could low velocity projectiles that moved slow enough to pass the shields threshold such as flechette pistols, but these were short range. Still though, if a army of shielded opponents was approaching at a distance , one could simply send a disposable drone or thopter with a las gun and fire. The explosion would basically nuke the army and kill the drone.

@@cesarespinozaspain You could have a high-velocity object slow down as it passes through the shield remotely. Active-aerodynamics on the projectile, using drag from air to slow down the projectile as it gets close to the shield or thrusters to slow it down. There is no excuse, it's a plot hole if you think like an engineer.

@@cesarespinozaspain Plus, wouldn't flamethrowers work?

@@walangchahangyelingden8252 Fire based weapons would basically cook or cause asphyxiation to the victim provided he or she isn't wearing environmental armor. As for the idea of a variable velocity munitions...I like it but it wouldn't be practical as a infantry based weapons. The round would be huge to contain all the components. However a large capacity hunter seeker launcher could kill a squad slowly...pun intended

The fremen were not better than the Sardaukar, they were nearly equal. Keep in mind the Sardaukar were outnumbered when facing the fremen due to the emperor’s arrogance, and the fremen used sandworms in their assault as well. Not to mention, they were aid by Paul’s tactics since the fremen were disorganised before that. So much so that the fremen had trouble finding the Harkonen for 80 years.

I agree for the most part, but if we stick to Imperial times(pre-Paul) and ignore all the retconning of Brian and Kevin, the first book kind of makes a point of how everybody is shocked by both the Fremen will of self-sacrifice and also the Sardaukars reckless use of lasguns during the invasion, with little regard for their own safety. It seems like that kind of behavior is very jarring to the people in that imperium. The Sardaukar are so dangerous partly because they got self-preservation drilled out of them. That's why they are called fanatics all the time. The only thing that cracks on that impression is the Harkonnen hunter-seeker operator in the palace wall. But we simply don't know enough about that guy. If he was blackmailed into it, or if he had escape plans, or was supposed to (or just lied to in that regard) wait until the invasion to be dug out. But that tactic also seems to have blindsided the entire security and intelligence apparatus of the Atreides and they don't seem to be unphased by such a practice. Also maybe, a shield-lasgun-reaction might be considered a breach of the great convention if done deliberately.

Yeah they fans try argue that "oh it would be seen as atomics" but you could always get a third party to hire out a third party to remote control a drone to lasgun a shield and take out a whole city. Herbert wrote that as an excuse why they fight with swords instead of lasguns, but any sane individual would never use a device that could even remotely blow up a city. I mean for gods sake what about accidents? Accidental discharge? They are basically walking around with portable nukes and no one seems to care. Honestly I think even herbert realized how stupid that was when in later books he had Leto the second outlaw shields.

@@gwell2118 I partly agree, but i thinkmzhe grear convention is a huge factor in it.

@@tomitiustritus6672 Well that was just an in universe attempt to justify why no one uses nukes. But again from a logic perspective no one should be using shields at all. The Great convention was just Herberts in universe attempt to justify why no one uses nukes or risks setting off a shield. And even than it still doesn't address the root cause of the problem. They are walking disasters waiting to happen. You have cities full of shields that could accidently blow up the whole place. And people use them flippantly. Its insanity when you actually think about it. No honestly Herbert made a mistake trying to justify sword fighting with that. The GC was him trying desperately to put some kind of logic on why a future society fights likely medieval soldiers. And fanboying aside its really just dumb if you apply any kind of critical thinking on it. Like oh the other houses would turn on them, well what if a few houses banded together and attacked the others unawares, they have ships that can appear out of nowhere and launch an orbital attack, but no we are only going to rely on guys with swords. Like its not like any house is trapped in one location, they could hide out in safety from reprisal and keep attacking their enemies. This isn't actually feudal society, they have ships and cloaks and advanced weaponry, also they have no way of defending against atomics? Like interceptors? No one thought of countermeasures? Herbert liked people thinking about the themes in his work, but his actual science fiction is basically "just go with it jerk!"

@@gwell2118 I dont disagree with you completely, but the great convention isnt much different from how we deal with ABC weaponry in real life. Our conventional weaponry would be rendered nearly to completely useless, if you "just" dared to use ABC weaponry. But for the same reasons like in Dune, we dont. And just like in real life, some overstep that boundary. Also, war in the Empire is pretty ritualized. They usually dont do wars if extermination. And the loser is usually offered a way out. From the traditional peace offer before a feud escalates to offering exile on the guilds secret planet Tupile. That style of war was actually the norm before WW1 and WW2 when "civilized" states fought among themselves. (Didnt extend to those not considered "civilized" though) This changed when the idea of nations fighting each other for survival like a pseudoevolutionary struggle was popularized. The wars in the imperium arent nations or empires clashing over vital resources or out of ideological adversity, they are noble houses in the same political system carrying out feuds and pursuing ambitions within thst system. And then, we have to consider that it was written in the 60s. The suicide warrior stereotype was a very strange and exotic concept then and thats reflected in the book. Even Thufir Hawat is outright shocked by a Fremen ramming his 'thopter into a Sardaukar troop carrier.That "plunge myself into death for a cause" thing really gets going afterwards. The Houses arent ideological leaders or revolitionaries. They are feudal overlords and you'll not find many feudal subjects who would just go and commit a suicide bombing for their lord. The Sardaukar are lose to the only known ideologically/religiously fanatic warriors in the imperium at that point. And everybody is shitscared of them. Your last paragraph is ignoring completely how space travel works. The Atreides even have to ask the guild for permission to have a frigate orbit as a weather satellite and get denied. And it is spoken of loosing transport privileges with the guild. You do simply comply with the guild or you are stuck planetside, period. You can't just fly around and pull shit like that. They have the monopoly and they aren't letting the leash drag on it. Dune is not flawless and much less realistic, but in its own historical context, its much more thought through than you give it credit. I am much more puzzled that the Empire didn't completely outlaw and shun Lasguns per se.

molluscs criers

lmfao

Teenage boys on couches?

Lol. You got me! Good on you!

Lol I caught that too. I know exactly what it’s from too. It’s from Ace Combat 6’s box art for the Xbox 360. The artist legit just stole the F15 from the cover art for a video game haha.

@@gdi1093 but why tho lmaoooo

yeah there's so many talented artists in the fandom it's going to be amazing to watch them get reinvigorated by the movie, Dune inspires so much amazing fan art but at the same time there's only so much really high quality stuff out there right now and I think I've got all of it saved on my hard drive. We need more!

Were they as good as Sardaukar legions?

@@TheSunStudio1 no in the books the Sardaukar are better than the Atreides legion but the Atreides have some of the best sword masters in the galaxy like Duncan and Gurney plus a great Mentat

@@TheSunStudio1 To my understanding, the House Atreides developed and maintained better doctrine, both in terms of personal combat and in combined arms maneuver warfare. However, the sardaukar were superior warriors in terms of aggression and familiarity with their own combat doctrine.

@@LegionaryAtticus true. In the movie they still put up a savage fight against the Harkonnen/Sardaukar force. I think the Fremen are the more effective force for Fighting Sardaukar though

@@TheSunStudio1 they were almost as good

Great request, I enjoy Warhammer Lore, yet to play First Strike I bought.

And the great irony of that is as silly as Warhammer 40k lore is, it honestly makes more sense than Dune does, especially from a technological sense.

Leakycheese did a few videos "the lore that made 40k." He goes over how dune inspired 40k

40k its fun and I like the whole religious zealotry and the fact that nobody is really a "good guy"

@@gwell2118 eh..? It’s debatable, and while I would agree on the front of military technology, but in many other aspects DUNE’s insane attention to even seemingly mundane details means that it comes off as more “real” than 40k, which focuses more on spectacle and paying homage to countless other things (not that those are bad things mind you, they are part of why I love 40k)

That is just it: Its a nuclear attack, and would result in the death of your empire. Its kind hammy, tbh.

Second that. That would be awesome

The first book has 2 major battles worth covering, the rest of the Frank Herbert books don't go into too much detail about the battles that take place during their stories, but there are plenty of battles and bloodshed in both the original and the new books that could be covered even if a bunch of details end up needing to be filled in. *Edit - large-scale military conflicts

@@evilgeek87 The battle with the tree gun in Chapterhouse was the strangest.

Fishspeakers have the benefit of thousands of years of training and genetic manipulation. They would destroy Sardaukar, Fremen etc of that era. Think about Moneo and Duncan Idaho, Maneo toyed with him....

I was kinda disappointed that he didn't mention the Ginaz, but maybe Quinn didn't want to use "prequel" material?

Also I will say, the Fremen pretty well demonstrated that they could easily defeat the Sardukaur

@@WestSideGorilla1980 Sounds nice.

I think the most likely answer is that they tend to be better individual warriors but don't real co-ordinate in large enough numbers to be considered an 'army'. What little we know of them strikes me as quit as being quite individualistic, and many (like Duncan Idaho) probably leave after their training to seek employment with other houses. I think you could probably sneak the Atreides army onto this list as well. There was open speculation in the first book that they were a match for Sardukar and, whilst they did eventually get wiped out, that was in a surprise attack. Who can say how much closer things would have been in a 'fair' fight?

@@benthiccbiomancer2760 Guess we will never know if they(the Atreides army) truly were a match for Sardukar or not. Since they got washed within one night... In fact, we don't even know how many were there before the attack. Could've been a much smaller force than the Sardukar.

@@TheSunStudio1 could have been an even fighting force as well, the thing is the one night attack was one of the biggest military operations in Dune's history, a fuck load harks and Sardukars add to that artillery and it being a night raid? Yeah, the number atreides could have been big but even they couldn't have regrouped after annattack of that scale.

They were killing each other with ease before Paul started the training.

I haven't read the books, but when I watched Dune with dad and heard Harkonnen, we were like "haha why are the bad guys finnish?" It's a finnish name, Härkönen. Googled before watching Dune 2, and apparently it's because the author saw a shop named that, and thought it was Sovietic name that would fit for bad guys. It actually is a cool name though, "fish speakers" doesn't sound badass.

H E R E T I C S

I second that.

@@CinemancerFilms ult guide for that ones is already out

@@professorerudite far too long

@@Xalashaska I know I was just reversing the titles 🤣

Could be worse, imagine living in the 40k universe

Upvoted because those moravecs are hilarious

I don't. I consider them to be more like "other worlds" type stories.

Tn thousand years in a brutal and unforgiving environment in which one slip up kills you and your friends tends to distill discipline into a culture.

The other advantage was that Paul trained the Fremen in the weirding way

@@Diogolindir in the books? You sure?

In the first book a band of Fremen (even before the Feydakin) take down a large group of Sardukar (even taking prisoners) while only losing two men. It also mentions the Sietches housing sizable industry, from workshops to factories. From the quality of their Stillsuits we know that their technology was at the very least decently advanced. All that being said, I’d still agree that they were probably not the completely superior fighters, but they were definitely better suited for the war on Arrakis, and Paul certainly used that advantage well...

@@void-creature didn't remember, thank you.

Basically the shield/laser interaction was indistinguishable from atomics. If your house was suspected of having used atomics against your enemy then the other houses would annihilate you. This was a serious enough threat that the Baron didn't use them against the Atreides. Although he used the threat of lasguns being against Atriedes shields to keep the Duke off guard. There are truthsayers who could interrogate anyone suspected and the Baron and Piter were fearful enough of them that they didn't kill Paul and Jessica directly.

That’ll be awesome asf, but hopefully theaters are open by then 🤞🏾🤞🏾

@@CinemancerFilms They might be open, but I don't think there'll be large turnout in general

The Honored Matres would just have sex with Kylo Ren and bend him to their will.

Army of one!

We could make up an explanation, but the real reason is that the author wanted melee combat without putting in the effort to actually make it all click afterwards.

Lol

@Matt Borel good catch

relic technology that has been rediscovered

The Sardukar

Oh, it's not just you. 40k borrowed from ALL of the 'classics' - foundation, Dune, Starship troopers, Judge Dredd, Nemesis the warlock.

They will

Yes, Dune part 2

The location of Chapterhouse is a highly guarded secret. Take it up with the Bene Gesserit.

The Sardaukar are rule of cool basically. An army so badass and elite that they're all from one planet and half the recruits died in the process of joining and yet somehow still efficient enough that they are too powerful to be beaten unless every other Great House teams up against them. Sometimes in classic Sci-Fi you just gotta let tropes happen, cuz when they were written they weren't tropes yet.

From what I remember in the novels - every royal army was not allowed to exceed 1 million troops. The Sarduaker exceeded 10 billion in Emperor Shadams army.