@Fubar AlAlkbar IX: Nah we will do you one better. We will make ships that do not require one of their navigators. We will take out their monopoly on space travel in one move.

@@stevengreen9536 The Ixians did produce space ships that did not require Navigators. but the Guild sabotaged them so that no one would trust them.

@@RoomersToTheContrary Well in the books it seems the navigators wasted their time anyway. 😛

@@RoomersToTheContrary Leto 2 made sure humanity will never need spice to survive again None of humans who returned cared much for the guild , they all used tech to navigate

@@cedriceric9730Spice is a metaphor, but not the central theme of Dune. Arrakis comes from the Arab word الراقص ar-rāqiṣ, meaning "the dancer," originally a name for the star Mu Draconis. Dune is essentially about time travel as the interaction and transformation of information from the past, present, and future. The Tleilaxu are virtually immortal as they create gholas of themselves that are reawakened with their memories whenever the old body dies. So no need for spice to extend life.

@@r3l4x69 Indeed, and the Baron even expected the hunter seeker to fail. It’s main purpose was to shake up Hawat, and make him doubt himself. A feint within a feint, really.

The agent sets the hunter-seeker in play but once initiated it acts independently or semi independently.

​@@stevenredpath9332It's literally remote controlled. It is specifically stated in the book that the operator had to be VERY close to control it. Hence why they found a Harkonnen agent literally sealed up in a wall near Paul's quarters. The hunter seeker's weakness was that the operator could only truly see physical movement. Not thermal imaging, or biometric readings. Just a simple readout showing movement in a small area. There are no autonomous machines whatsoever in the Herbert Dune-iverse.

True

@@stevenredpath9332 It's stated in the book that the camera the operator used to steer it was partly occluded by the hunter-seeker's suspensor field.

I think you could argue that spice-based foldspace travel night only be attainable for the very wealthy. Poorer groups works still need to travel conventionally.

Between the David Lynch film, the six core novels and Willis McNelly's Dune Encyclopedia, I've never been entirely clear as to whether the FTL travel in Dune is an instantaneous jump (the Lynch film, certain mentions in the books) or a translation through all places in between along a safely mapped out route. Clearly from the fact that we have a Scattering, the old empire had its astrographic boundaries.

@@Ensign_Cthulhu I'm with you on that! From the books I imagine that it is kind of both, like they have to travel a route through space because dodging asteroids and stars, yet the journey along that route seems nigh instantaneous. Unfortunately I really, really liked the way the Lynch movie portrayed it better as a basically a spice derived psychic jump power that pulls the whole ship, I find that much more interesting and fits in perfectly with the unknown powers of the spice.

It is basically instant. The ships use holtzman fields to bend and fold space. The navigators are needed to calculate how you need to fold and bend space. Otherwise you could just pop out anywhere which happens Btw the thinking machines areny ixian I do not get where he gets thats from. Its the old thinking machines returning. It is basically spelled out in the series in several books. Mankind must become more than a machine

@@aafree6221 Interesting, when I look at it that way I see the Navigator's prescience less like dodging asteroids and stars, and more like doing a complicated math problem then looking into the future to see if you got it right, if you did then you enter it into the machine and hit the button.

Why [very reasonable tone] didn't they use the 3 Laws of Robotics? Then, no problem.

mind humankinds mind , thinking machines,..like a calculator or a coffee maker

whilst watching on a computer. I know

@@veralenora7368 The laws of robotics and the whole Foundation series were written by Asimov to show how such constrictions on AI wouldn't work.

What if it isn't as far off as you think?

After reading it, I changed so much about how I see and live life!

They're "more interesting" because they're the only non-human factions. Navigators and Mentats toe the line, but these two are deviants that are becoming kind of alien. The whole point of the series is to explore what it means to be human, how we shape our environment, how that environment shapes out conflicts, etc.

The ixians are clan skryre while the tleilaxu are clan moulder lol

I think that a lot of sci-fi stories put the question more mildly - is the humanity _prepared_ for such a technology?

@@CZpersi I doubt humanity has been prepared for anything we've discovered going all the way back to fire. We just roll with the hits really well. Usually. Sometimes we die.

@@derekburge5294 Exactly. And most tech is doomed to be used for war at some point, so with every new tech at least someone will always die.

@@Randleray While true, our wars have also gotten... Not better, but not nearly as destructive to non-combatants as it was even 50 years ago. That's an improvement. And for better or worse, our energy generation capability has gotten to the point where it can be immensely destructive if misused and that trend is unlikely to change.

@@Randleray "Most technologies are doomed to be used for war..." ... and porn. Our innovations would not be the same without it. And most sci-fi writers actually failed to notice that.

Excellent point

Bingo

40K even

@@thesorrow4664 40k is nowhere near Dune and LOTR, they are way more sophisticated and innovative, even genre-defining.

Dune easily surpasses LOTR.

Interestingly, Arthur C. Clarke had exactly the same opinion. In his own words: "It (Dune) is unique. I know nothing comparable to it, other than the Lord Of The Rings".

​@@ThaUltimateHunter LOTR and Dune are better than 40k, but saying that 40k lore is shit... With all due respect you are a little bit delusional

pusuit of technology is literally pursuit of power. pursuit of money, pursuit of superior design, superior advantage.

@@JackJackKcajify not necessarily so. Pursuit of technology can be (like pursuit of knowledge) for its own sake. And just as fanatical and single minded, without any pragmaticism in mind.

The third way is to exit the Game - take a Heighliner to Tupile or another world outside the Imperium.

Well if they went the GoT route, they’d start off great then get sort of weird, but in the end it’d be rushed and unfulfilling.

@@bushmaster6894 You just need to know when to exit - given, it is hard to know that in advance. At least a hoped for a 'good' ending in GoT until the first episode of S8... but then again I hate to leave series open just because the directors are assholes.

I don't think book 4+ can be adapted into film or at least not for a big audience it is way to trippy

@@mrnice4434 They surely could... but not one single person would give a budget for them in Hollywood, because they are as you said not for the broad audence and thus wont ever pay back any budget even if the budget would be less than $50... sadly.

The books kinda got the Game of thrones route, with the later addition being bad fanfictions with an official stamp on it... I don't think it will be good, i don't think you can adapt Dune to a film successfully

WWI aviator goggles is what you are really looking for

Or that the sleeper has awakened apparently.

He's been doing it for a long time as well.

Dune in german was outlawed during the jihad. Don't answer your door

One of my favorite episodes, too.

I like an evolved being who has little time for banter.

@@MrMusicbyMartin ...i am ....a dyer wolf, prey stalking , lethal prowler.

I'll paraphrase CS Lewis, what is important isn't the physical form or abilities, but the mind. In Out of the Silent Planet, a human scientist wants to spread humanity to Mars and eventually all other worlds. Exterminating or supplanting the intelligent life already there. When it is explained to him that humans would have to be extensively altered to comfortably live on those worlds he says he does not care about the shape of the body, only the mind. It is then explained to him that all intelligent life everywhere has the same type of mind, goals, feeling, spirit ect. At best he wants to commit fratricide on top of genocide.

@@kyle857 It's a fair point, and perfectly fits Lewis' philosophy. But is it practical? Can a being that can live comfortably on Mars as it is today and a human of earth truly have enough in common to make fellowship a possibility?

It isn't ridiculous to assume that your dream can come true, so I wish you a long life.

Yes, the concept has been explored a lot in science fiction and fantasy as there is something thought provoking and terrifying in man having a hand in his own destruction by making something in his own image, or in some ironic twist, wrecking his civilization by inventing something meant to save it that ends up being its bane. Look at all the real world weapon inventors that created something thinking it would be so terrible that it would end the lunacy of war, but all it did was make war even worse, like the person who inflicted "Keeping Up With the Kardashians" upon humanity...lol.

In the Dune Encyclopedia, there is the legend of the Ampoliros, a pre-guild ship traveling the universe at near-light speed forever, the crew still alive because of the time dilation, and then the entry on Aurelius Venport says his ship disappeared during the first coordinated test of the space-folding drives, implying that he might still be wandering the universe as well.

@@keepinmahprivacy9754 Nice to hear!

I think Frankenstein would be something Quinn would really really love.

It's very hard to spoil Frank Herberts Dune books. Even reading Frank Herberts Dune Books doesn't spoil them. Every time you re-read them you find something new, something different, another depth you hadn't seen before.

Oh my God, he's using the voice!

The gentlemen from Nottingham seldom miss an opportunity to assimilate any half decent Sci Fi story or race into the 40K universe.

LMAO

The OC Bible is a specific book authored and editored by the Commission of Ecumenical Translators. It follows the theme of different religions and creeds being mashed together in somewhat unlikely manner in the far future - the Zen-Sunni believers for instance seem to blend Zen Buddhism and Sunni Islam while the Orange Catholics would seem to be a mixture of the Protestant Orange orders and their traditional deadly enemies the Roman Catholics..

@@BenFrayle "...mashed together in somewhat unlikely manner..." I thought Zensunni a bit far out as well, but it does have precedent in our world with the Druze religion.

@@RobertWF42 Anything is possible given thousands of years and cultures being smashed together. Certain religious groups could band together as atheism (or agnosticism) became more popular, only to fall back into religion during the feudal era of the empire.

@@icarusfx there’s evidence religion (the all round idea not one in particular) is an evolutionary driver by virtue of it taking the behavior necessary to survive in a given area and making at the “Will of God “. Brian Herbert explored this idea as he fleshed out Pardo in the House prequel trilogy, namely as he considered what would be necessary for the terraforming project to continue long after the first generation had died out. Another example, and it’s scattered throughout the prequel portion of the saga is the evolution of beliefs of The Zensuni from prior to their enslavement to their flight to Dune and about a generation after (we see the entire ethnic group goal from pacifistic and unwilling to defend themselves to tribalistic and willing to kill for an insult). Interestingly enough, immigration appears to also be both be a evolutionarily driver and connected to religion (although when you consider that you are literally leaving everything you know to go to a place you know nothing about in the hopes of something better, it’s understandable why religion would be attached to immigration), all this is to say: Each world and certainly during the old empire would likely have its own religion started on the journey there (or shortly after arriving assuming that there was cryo-sleep) and likely a generation or two after arrival it would be a fully evolved system with region dependent sects occurring as needed. I think the group that would have a degree of success when it came to spreading any religion beyond a world would be The Spacing Guild or any religion that lent itself to a merchant group that cause them to travel (regular immigration) between groups and worlds (over time it’s been adopted by trading partners) All of this is to say: the fact a bunch of theologians hung out on ruined earth to come up with a “unified” religion was a worse idea than The ivory tower cogitators peace plan and it’s no wonder the crowd had a barbecue early on and why later Paul’s Jihad overturned it, it wasn’t grounded into The local environment or naturally evolved.

Murder is a sin and yet... we don't seem to mind it much at all. We punish it when it is convenient, we perform it when it is convenient. Only, in the latter case, we call it other names and paint it up in innocent seeming colors. Why should we expect another people to hold another sin any more strictly than we hold murder?